Barrel getting some lead

[Mr.doug]

Got a ped. Rolling block in 45-70. I’ve got a very accurate load using 1.5 swiss .060 wad with
.100 of compression. Get home to clean and there is always a few slivers of lead in bore. Using
A baco 459535m3 and spg lube. It will shoot 1 moa even with the slivers. Question is since their
Chambers run long at 2.150 and brass runs 2.100 if your lucky could the .050 of chamber exposed
Be my leading problem. I’ve tried 4 different bullets in this gun and they all lead basically the same.
Accuracy is always good, just tired of tapping lead out with turpentine and tight patch. The only other thing I haven’t tried was a .458 dia bullet.

[country gent]

If you can look in with a bore scope both before shooting ( clean bore) and then after. Clean may revel some rough spots and after will show where the leading is actually at.

I have 2 barrels that show a few lead slivers on the patch after a session. One is the barrel on my pedersoli 74 sharps Its a 34" barrel it has a few slivers on the first patch and that about all The other is the barrel on my BRC broshardt this barrel is 30" BRC barrel. Again is seems to reach a level and stay there.

I clean after every stage 10 rounds with sighters, but its more to remove fouling than lead.

[Randy Bohannon]

Measure the case mouth from a well annealed piece of brass shot from your rifle this will tell you what size your bullet should be. I was told for years that Shiloh’s were .459 measured a fired piece of brass and it showed .460” ,bought a mold at .460” and it shoots better than .459” with zero leading. I believe the Pedersoli rifles prefer .460” bullet as well.

[BLAHUT]

I ended with .460/.461 set to just touch rifling, hard; if the leading is at chamber, bullet is not plumping at firing to seal barrel; if leading is at muzzle, you are not caring enough lube;

[Lead pot]

What Randy said is good advice.

.050" freebore is not a problem. Mostly the lead smear starts at the .45º case stop at the end of the chamber but that can be controlled seating the bullet farther out where the lube groove is past the case mouth if the case is a few thousands short to begin with and the lube groove is over the case stop. Also prelude the bore before the first shot is fired with some lube on a patch.
A proper wad is also important to hold the gas back to prevent mouse nibbles on the bullet base or worse gas cuts.
Once the slight lead smear starts it will just build up.
Some say that they don't get lead fouling shooting GG bullets but I wonder just how hard they look for it when they clean he rifle. When you push a dry clean patch through the bore and it comes out discolored there is still some lead or fouling in that bore.

Here is what I'm talking about with that 45º case stop at the end of the chamber.
This bullet was a PP and I purposely deep seated this bullet to see what that case stop can do to the bullet shank when it get fired. That ring you see is what happened when that black powder charge went off and the bullet obdurate filling the chamber and gets sent forward. It rubbed some lead off and most likely stayed behind in that transition. That ring you see on the ogive is a lead ring that was left behind from the previous shot fired and I'm sure that it smeared the bore as it was pushed out.

318338

I keep my cases .005" short of the chamber so they don't get drug up past the case stop angle. The reason I do this is the powder and wad will grip the case wall and if there is a head space problem with the rim thickness that case will get pulled past that 45º and crimp the bullet shank and this will also pull lead off the bullet.
That bore scope has a 25X magnification making that gap look large.

Here is a cleaned bore and you can still see a sliver of lead ahead of the case stop that I did not get cleaned out.

318340

[Mr.doug]

I have a hoch nose poor that basically mimics the Lyman 457124 government round nose , it drops at .460
And I still get the same amount of leading.I seat all bullets out till touching lands
Most of them there is 1 lube groove exposed

[Chill Wills]

I have a hoch nose poor that basically mimics the Lyman 457124 government round nose , it drops at .460
And I still get the same amount of leading.I seat all bullets out till touching lands
Most of them there is 1 lube groove exposed

As you correctly observed, accuracy does not always go away just because a little lead shows up when cleaning. I have a few rifles that don't lead in normal conditions regardless of alloy ( read, cooler conditions) but, if the air temperature gets in the high 90's, the barrel will lead. Also, if shooting the target rifle matches like NRA Mid-range and Long-range, that are shot under the hot summer sun, leading is very common. In these matches I have been surprised at how well I have shot when punching out the barrel between yardages and seeing all the lead coming out. Sometimes leading is just part of the deal.
I have observed the occasional rifleman with a loose jag and patch just pushing it through the barrel with the greatest of ease and proclaiming "no lead". I keep my mouth shut.

[indian joe]

As you correctly observed, accuracy does not always go away just because a little lead shows up when cleaning. I have a few rifles that don't lead in normal conditions regardless of alloy ( read, cooler conditions) but, if the air temperature gets in the high 90's, the barrel will lead. Also, if shooting the target rifle matches like NRA Mid-range and Long-range, that are shot under the hot summer sun, leading is very common. In these matches I have been surprised at how well I have shot when punching out the barrel between yardages and seeing all the lead coming out. Sometimes leading is just part of the deal.
I have observed the occasional rifleman with a loose jag and patch just pushing it through the barrel with the greatest of ease and proclaiming "no lead". I keep my mouth shut.

that bloke might be me :groner: I call leading if I get little flakes of silver shiny stuff on that tight dry patch - if its just discolouration I call soot/didnt finish cleaning it yet !!

[Mr.doug]

Could poor fouling management cause leading to start? Being a 34” barrel maybe I’m not getting
All the carbon out with patches. Would like to get bore pigs but I cant find any vfg felts anywhere at this
Time.

[Chill Wills]

The short answer is no. If you are getting leading I would look to something else about your bullet fit, bullet seating into the chamber, and then of course fouling control.
I looked back at this post to see what fouling control you are using and do not see it.

About the carbon issue. It is either a very minor factor or none at all in accuracy and I think it is a zero as it relates to leading. In the jacketed bullet world, it may figure in. I can't say. For all the 25 years I have competed, I have never used a carbon cleaner until 4 years ago. People talk about it but in all my match shooting, and I shoot a lot, a good carbon cleaner did not change anything that I can tell.

What conditions are you shooting in? Maybe under the hot sun? Barrel getting very hot?

[Lead pot]

Lead and tin is a solder as well as adding silver or copper it's a solder.

I learned a long time ago being a plumber that when I cleaned the copper pipe or lead flashings the solder will not flow on the portion I touched with my fingers if they had a little oil on then even from just wiping the sweat off my oily skin with my fingers and when you put the water or what ever you will have a leak. Try soldering with just pure lead and see it if will flow and stick properly :D
Usually the lead smear comes from the very first shot fired in a clean dry barrel. The heat from friction and the powder flame is enough to start the soldering and the smear starts if you don't have a proper lube that will coat and protect the bore you get leading.
Per lube your bore with an oil or lube and shoot a fouling shot and then go to work on what you want to hit. :D

[45-110]

Could poor fouling management cause leading to start? Being a 34” barrel maybe I’m not getting
All the carbon out with patches. Would like to get bore pigs but I cant find any vfg felts anywhere at this
Time.
Ebay has the felts all the time.
kw

[Chill Wills]

Lead Pot, that is exactly right.
It is a good idea to dry the solvent out of the barrel and give it a coat of something for the first bullet down the barrel to ride on. In my case, I have found the easiest thing to use is a patch full of Ballistol. I used to run a patch with my bullet lube through the barrel but it is much easier to use the Ballistol. It is a mistake to fire the first lead bullet through the barrel with what every solvent you used to clean the barrel last, especially if it was a product you like because pulls the traces of lead from the rifling. Guess what ? It can pull lead from the next bullet through too.

[steveu]

Could poor fouling management cause leading to start? Being a 34” barrel maybe I’m not getting
All the carbon out with patches. Would like to get bore pigs but I cant find any vfg felts anywhere at this
Time.

You can try International Shooters Service in Fort Worth. I picked up a bag of 500 10.3mm for the 40's.

Cheers,
Steve

[Mr.doug]

Thank you Steveu. Just ordered some from them. So know I will use borepigs with a wet patch
Behind and a chamber mop will see if it will eliminate some of this leading.
Thanks for all the input

[Don McDowell]

You need to test wiping with the felts if the rifle doesn’t like them with much fluid then it could lead like crazy
Most likely your bullet is to small and needs to be at .460 diameter to fit the throat diameter

[jednorris]

If you are shooting 1 M.O.A. with leading as you stated, I would not change a thing.

[Lead pot]

If you are shooting 1 M.O.A. with leading as you stated, I would not change a thing.

Well, there is always the search for the 1/2 MOA:bigsmyl2: