Best Walk About Shot Caliber To Build- WHat Should I Build?

[cumminsnut76]

So I have a Contender frame just itching to be built and I am thinking a small light weight walk about rifle would be just the ticket. What I dont know is what to chamber the little bugger in? I want to know what you would do. My only parameters are
Contender based (obviously)
-lightweight 4-6 lbs
-used mainly for small critters inside of 150-200 yards but could be used much closer
-must be centerfire
- the more obscure cartridge the better as i do reload as long as brass and bullets are available or can be cast for
-light recoil and light report if possible
- I all ready have a barrels in 357 max, 9mm, and 22 hornet so those are out

what do you guys think? use your imagination lol

[marlinman93]

I'd choose the .250 Savage myself. Not as obscure as some, but different enough, yet easy to make brass for, or still find brass. A great cartridge for 200 yds. and under in a light rifle. Good for varmints, yet still could be used to take deer if you chose to also. Probably one of the most versatile, but overlooked cartridges around these days.

[Fast Asleep]

My favorite for this application is a 300 BO chamber with a rim cut so cases can be made from annealed and necked down 357 maximum brass. I used a 10” twist barrel to be more cast friendly.

[FredBuddy]

I have a 30-30 carbine barrel on my Contender
frame right now. Meets the OP's criteria
depending on what handload I put in it. Lots of
versatility here.

But I'd sure like to add a 25-20 carbine barrel
to my kit!

[cumminsnut76]

I have thought of a 25-20 or 32-20. I’ve also thought about something along the lines of a 30 Luger. All great ideas. Keep them coming

[Outpost75]

.32 S&W Long in a rifle is dandy. Common brass. Economical to shoot.
Performance equals .32-20 black powder loads. Lyman 116-grain #3118 gets 960 fps With 2.5 grains of Bullseye. Full charge load with 7 grains of Alliant #2400 gets 1260 fps. Factory 98-grain Remington .32 S&W Long ammo gets 931 fps. With the 18-inch barrel gun weighs 4 pounds. It is NOT a "stub" job, so I still have use of the .410 barrel. John Taylor built it for me.

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[stubshaft]

30 Herrett gives you all the efficiency and ballistics of a 30/30 in a smaller case.

[Jack Stanley]

Don't forget the .30 Badger .

Jack

[Don McDowell]

25-35 winchester

[Texas by God]

30-30 can be loaded for Mice to Moose easily.
Although the 25-35 is interesting…..


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[Don McDowell]

30-30 probably the most versatile cartridge around, but as the OP asked about "obscure" cartridges...
I do know an old guy that owned a single rifle and it was in 25-35 don't know as he ever at mice but he ate a lot of elk ,deer and antelope, and moose whenever he or his brother could draw a tag.. :)

[jonp]

What do you mean by "small critters"?
A 22 Hornet immediately came to mind

[uscra112]

O.P. said small critters, so anything above .25-20 is overkill. And I'd go for .25-20 Single Shot myself. In its' day it was the small game cartridge, but was also considered a viable number for target competition when the wind was light. Brass is hard to get, but once you've got it it lasts forever. Another obscure possibility is .25-21. Or for really obscure, go for the .25 Harwood, which is a centerfire version of the .25 Stevens rimfire. Making brass from .22 Hornet is easy. Since you will use a strong action it can be loaded to 1800 fps using a 65 grain gas checked bullet.

Not knocking Outpost75's suggestion of .32 S&W either, but it doesn't meet the "obscure" criterion.

[racepres]

Obscure?? No
But...My 410/45LC is pretty darn Versatile...and a Natural in Contenders.. Get a good Fitting grip tho...as a 45LC can be a Handful in a Contender...410???? Great fun..especially if ya reload in brass shells!!!

[Outpost75]

The .38 S&W also works nicely as a mild shooting small game rifle. Factory 146-grain lead roundhouse gets 800 fps from a 20-inch barrel with mild report like standard velocity .22LR. Using a 10-inch twist 9mm gunsmith special blank from Green Mountain a 240-grain bullet is accurate and quiet at 720 fps, penetrating EIGHT gallon water jugs!

318142318143
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Another 4-pound woods loafing gun.

[John Taylor]

The 22-15-60 Stevens might be a fun one to play with. I have the chamber reamer but don't know where you would find brass. I have had many calls for a 32 S&W or 32 H&R. There are a lot of choices out there like 17 or 25 Hornet, 6X45, 6mm-30-30. The last two may be a bit hotter than your looking for. Maybe design your own like a 25 Luger. Outpost 75 came up with a 10X25 several years back. Shortened 44 mag brass necked down to 10mm.

[swamp]

My favorite is the 310 Cadet. But then I have a Cadet.
swamp

[Mk42gunner]

A nice little pistol caliber or equivalent sounds good, until you get to this part:
-used mainly for small critters inside of 150-200 yards but could be used much closer
There is a truck load of small and obscure cartridges that will work within 50 yards, not so many that will still work at 200.

What about a .25 Hornet?

Robert

[HWooldridge]

Obscure is cool but finding brass may be an exercise in frustration. With that in mind, I’d suggest a stalking rifle in 7x57 Mauser. Easy-peasy to make cat sneeze or elephant loads, accurate and low recoil…basically build a light Rem roller from that action.

[Larry Gibson]

Given the OPs desire for use on small game with a 150-200 yards range using cast bullets I'd opt for a 24" 30-30 barrel with a 14" twist for the Contender frame. As mentioned, the 30-30 can be loaded "from mice to moose". The 14" twist will allow cast bullets from 90 gr to 180 gr loaded from 600 to 2600 fps with excellent accuracy potential across the 200 yard max range.

I have a 21" 30-30 factory Contender barrel for my Contender but the 10" twist is limiting with cast bullets above 2000 fps. Still, it is a very versatile cartridge for the Contender Carbine.

[uscra112]

The 22-15-60 Stevens might be a fun one to play with. I have the chamber reamer but don't know where you would find brass.

Well, for a price Rocky Mountain Cartridge will lathe-turn anything you want.

And I have a .25 Stevens reamer.

[Outpost75]

Update on the 10x25R, we switched to necking down Starline .44 Russian brass, which produces a 0.975" case in one pass with no trimming or neck reaming needed. John has the reamer and can make dies by annealing, shortening, reaming, polishing and rehardening .38-40 dies.

With 180-grain lead Accurate 40-182H .38-40 bullet 5 grains of Bullseye gives 1000 fps in a 5-1/2" revolver and 1080 fps in a 22-inch rifle barrel. An Accurate 40-224H 224-grain lead bullet with 6 grains of Unique gives 950 fps revolver and 1070 fps rifle. A lightly compressed charge of 22 grains Goex 3Fg with the. 40-224H gives 670 fps in a 5-inch revolver, and 1000 fps from the rifle. Accurate 40-252H with 16 grains of IMR4227 gives 1080 fps revolver and 1340 fps rifle. A fully adequate woods deer rifle.
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[country gent]

I have a martinni cadet that been re-barreled to 218 bee with a 20" shilen light sporter barrel. The round is very good for small varmints and such. A little more than a hornet and a little less than a 222 rem

[JDHasty]

We have Conteder carbines in 17 Hornady Hornet. If it is varmints and not edible game that is the ticket. 22 Hornet hits harder at 150 for larger varmints and can be loaded down for edible game. We have both and stay with Hornet based cartridges for walking around rifles because the ammo is more portable than Bee or 221. A hundred rounds or more is what we pack along.

This is based on practical application, not theory.

I don’t even engage people who want to argue the point. It’s like talking to a wall or the bumper of a car. We shoot ground squirrels, rock chucks and prairie dogs and know from experience what works best for us.

If your application is similar you might want to consider either 17 or 22 Hornet. With modern range finders neither has any advantages we can see except in more densely populated rural areas the 17 never ricochets. Not that the 22 has either, but it’s a stone cold natural fact that your maximum potential ricochet with a 20 grain bullet is never going to result in a 30-40 grain ricochet.

22 Hornet 40 V-max @ 3,250 fps
17 Hornet 20 tipped @ 3,600

It’s pretty easy to see that the 22 Hornet is going to hit a lot harder. Those are real velocities taken through our Oehlers. I’ve never seen a 17 anything that was worth spit as an edible small game round. The 22 Hornet can be an outstanding small game round.

FWIW, we have Bees and 221/222 based rifles as well. Practical experience is what makes the Hornets what we prefer. YMMV

[uscra112]

O.P. posted:

- the more obscure cartridge the better as I do reload as long as brass and bullets are available or can be cast for.

Hornets do not qualify.

[JDHasty]

Nearly six decades ago when I was consumed with research and planning my future arsenal in the grade school library there were claims to the effect that the Hornet and 45/70 were obsolete. Dead and dying. Kaput.

We have both and wouldn’t ever want to be without them.

[uscra112]

He also wrote:

- I all ready have a barrels in 357 max, 9mm, and 22 hornet so those are out.

[M-Tecs]

I like the .25-35 Winchester. Somewhat obscure but not to the point that brass is a major pain.

[cumminsnut76]

I do like some of these ideas. What options are out there as a necked down 357 mag? Thinking at least 257 or bigger? Also what is involved in forming herret brass? I do have a 30-30 and a 30-30improved so they would be duplicates but anecked down version could have possibilities. All good ideas keep them coming!

[uscra112]

To make .30 Herrett you push the shoulder back by quite a way. I've never done it myself, but I imagine it would take at least one intermediate forming die. I once bought a box of .30 Herrett brass at an auction, (for peanuts), but after I got it home I started playing with loads in Quickload, and soon convinced myself that it wasn't as versatile as the .30-30 itself. I'd send it to you gratis pro deo if I knew where it was in this mess.

[Don McDowell]

25-35 is simply done by sizing 30-30 brass, the 22 Hi power and 225 winchester pretty much the same thing based off of 30 wcf brass.

30 Herret needs forming and trim dies along with fire forming.

There were a number of wildcats in the 60's and 70's based on 357 brass, but none of them really grabbed a hold. Unless you have a good supply of 357 brass on hand, anything based on that is going to be a problem as the component brass hasn't been available for several years. Maybe that'll turn around , hopefully..

[rockrat]

I was going to suggest the 357max. but since you have one, then the 327 Federal.

[rbuck351]

256 win should be perfect for your requirements.

[TomAM]

Or 6mm Bullberry

[uscra112]

Unless you have a good supply of 357 brass on hand, anything based on that is going to be a problem as the component brass hasn't been available for several years. Maybe that'll turn around , hopefully..

You're saying even .357 magnum isn't available now???? What is the world coming to?

edit: Nah, Duck Creek has Starline in stock.

[Don McDowell]

They are finally getting some loaded rounds available, not much real serviceable unless you're into fmj stuff, but component brass is scarce at best.

[JDHasty]

O.P. said small critters, so anything above .25-20 is overkill. And I'd go for .25-20 Single Shot myself. In its' day it was the small game cartridge, but was also considered a viable number for target competition when the wind was light. Brass is hard to get, but once you've got it it lasts forever. Another obscure possibility is .25-21. Or for really obscure, go for the .25 Harwood, which is a centerfire version of the .25 Stevens rimfire. Making brass from .22 Hornet is easy. Since you will use a strong action it can be loaded to 1800 fps using a 65 grain gas checked bullet.

Not knocking Outpost75's suggestion of .32 S&W either, but it doesn't meet the "obscure" criterion.

I would surely like to see the 25-20 Single Shot become less obscure that good brass was available at a price that obtaining 700-800 was a price I could justify. The brass is the parent round for a number of cartridges that I have had a long term interest in. I have seen one, and only one, rifle in the field that used that brass. It belonged to a gentleman who moved to the Spokane area from New England as a youth in the 1960's and his his father had brought along his battery of varmint rifles which he inherited. He was pleasantly surprised to meet someone who had a clue about the rifles he owned. The rifle was chambered in 170 Landis Woodsman, he had four rifles with him and another three or four at home. Mausers, Stevens, Winchester single shots.

[dverna]

So I have a Contender frame just itching to be built and I am thinking a small light weight walk about rifle would be just the ticket. What I dont know is what to chamber the little bugger in? I want to know what you would do. My only parameters are
Contender based (obviously)
-lightweight 4-6 lbs
-used mainly for small critters inside of 150-200 yards but could be used much closer
-must be centerfire
- the more obscure cartridge the better as i do reload as long as brass and bullets are available or can be cast for
-light recoil and light report if possible
- I all ready have a barrels in 357 max, 9mm, and 22 hornet so those are out

what do you guys think? use your imagination lol

Why is the .22 Hornet you have unacceptable for your needs? That may help determine a better choice of calibers. Yes, I understand it is not "obscure", but is that its only "fault"?

[TurnipEaterDown]

I’ve never seen a 17 anything that was worth spit as an edible small game round. The 22 Hornet can be an outstanding small game round

I like my 17 Ackley Hornet TC Contender as a Squirrel round.
I load the 25 Hornady HP over 12 gr H4895 for a reduced load (2800 fps, down from 3200 fps) and take head shots. Not too loud to be obnoxious, much flatter than a 22 RF.
Last black squirrel I shot this way I flubbed a little and took a front leg off, but so did the 22 RF that my hunting buddy used when he shot another 5 min later.

Back to the subject: Flexible small/mid game round on TC Contender -->
How about a 6.5 Bullberry or 6.5 Waters?
Light bullets available (85/90) or vermin, a 100 gr Nosler BT for a coyote or similar, or 120 gr Partition if you want to plug a deer a bit out there.

[cumminsnut76]

There is nothing wrong with the hornet. It’s a sweet little oversize BB gun lol. I just have the itch for another little game getter lol. Something between that and a 30-30 realistically

[Ajohns]

Obscure
Well I adore my little Martini in 380 Long.
Cases are made from 38 Long Colt, .375-80 heeled bullets can be bought or made, 3.5grs of Trailboss somehow is my lucky ticket but the same of Titegroup or 4grs of Unique work too.
But, I don't think you'll be shooting that one 200yds. It's very quiet, and accurate. I've really only shot to 50yds for my walking area of forest.

[sukivel]

I do like some of these ideas. What options are out there as a necked down 357 mag? Thinking at least 257 or bigger? Also what is involved in forming herret brass? I do have a 30-30 and a 30-30improved so they would be duplicates but anecked down version could have possibilities. All good ideas keep them coming!

256 win mag sounds perfect!


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[Don McDowell]

You're saying even [I][U].357 magnum

edit: Nah, Duck Creek has Starline in stock.

The only Duck Crerk Zi know of is a femoral stream that has a tendency to dry up in the fall
As to Starline brass that’s probably good for folks that like it
I don’t happen to be in that bunch😃

[country gent]

Another that would be interesting but a lot more forming would be the 219 Donaldson wasp. Back in its hey day it racked up a lot of bench rest wins and records

[country gent]

Another that would be interesting but a lot more forming would be the 219 Donaldson wasp. Back in its hey day it racked up a lot of bench rest wins and records

[Eddie Southgate]

Another vote for 25-20 WCF. Or the .32 S&W long , even if it not obscure. Most of the others suggested are not obscure either. I have a Piper Martini I want to have converted to .32 S&W L so I can use the L and standard S&W . Very handy cartridge for small game , L up to Coyote size and the S for rabbits and squirrels. Could do one of the modern versions of the .32 and then use all of the other cases that can use the one chamber.

[P Flados]

I do like some of these ideas. What options are out there as a necked down 357 mag? Thinking at least 257 or bigger? Also what is involved in forming herret brass? I do have a 30-30 and a 30-30improved so they would be duplicates but anecked down version could have possibilities. All good ideas keep them coming!

I seem to enjoy my contender caliber betters when I can get / make my brass from stuff that I can pick up at the range. I also like cases that are no larger in diameter than the 38/357 family or the 223 family. In a Contender, it you push things with any of these you will flatten primers before you reach any gun limits. I have 30-30 & 30 Herrett barrels and just feel a little less secure when working up loads for these rounds.

A very practical round is the 30 Badger (https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?256118-30-Badger-30-Reece) It uses 38 Special brass, 30 luger dies and the easily obtained 30 cal bullet molds (that you probably already have). I am not sure anyone has worked on optimizing it to be effective at your stated max range, but it should not be hard. MGM will make you a Contender barrel to your liking. If the emphasis is for the smaller side of the small game spectrum, this one loaded using 32-20 load data sounds pretty ideal.

256 win mag is a necked down 357 and was somewhat popular in contenders long ago. The round would probably be a little better suited for your max stated range, but 25 is on the small side for some applications and 357 brass is not quite as easy to source as 38 brass. I am not sure how "cast friendly" this one is.

And then I will throw in a caliber between the two above. 7 TCU uses 223 brass and works great in a Contender (I love mine and shoot it a lot). This round will be more powerful than the two above, but less of an "overkill" for small game than stuff like the 30-30 or bigger. My gun loves the Lee 128 if you do not already have suitable a 7mm mold. This one is very close to the 30 Herrett in performance, but is a little easier to make.

If you like the idea of 30 cal and want more power than the 30 Badger, consider the 300 BO. I did a Quickload study and the 300 BO will give you the same or slightly better performance in a Contender than a 30 Herrett. Case capacity is a little less, but allowed pressure is higher. Again, I like the 223 based case (both from a cost standpoint and from a diameter standpoint). Dies are easier to find than any previously mentioned round.

For both the 7 TCU and the 300 BO, rimless should not worry you at all unless there is some special concern such as use in extreme cold or bad hands/fingers.

[uscra112]

The only Duck Crerk Zi know of is a femoral stream that has a tendency to dry up in the fall

https://www.duckcreeksportinggoods.com/

[barrabruce]

30 blk rimmed short
Made with 357 magnum cases and held back blk reamer.
Use a shortened blk dies.

Pretty cheap with easy to find stuff.
Only 42psi case so velocities are a bit slower but if you would like to lob pb cast bullets out there then it will do it.
From Lee soup can to 225 grains.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

303-25... It's an Aussie thing.

[rintinglen]

I will echo the 7mm TCU recommendation. The problem I see is trying to get both the powder puff and the 200 yard requirements to play nice together. Me, I'd get a 32-20 and call it good enough, though it would leave the woodchuck at 175 yards out of range from me.

[405grain]

A single shot in an obscure cartridge? How about a 8x33 Kutz. Can't get much more obscure than that, and it's the total opposite of what a single shot was designed for. Performance should check all the OP's boxes, and would probably work good with cast loads. Besides, you'd be the only kid on the block that owns one.

[Electrod47]

Awhile back I figured I needed a walkabout gun for Coyote, Hog etc. Decided to keep it simple and fast handling. Wanted a little more punch than my lever action .22 mag. Started with a H&R SB1 frame, had a .223 Bull barrel I got got stubbed to 16 1/2" countersunk crowned.
My fav load of 55gr ballistict tip at 2700fps is plenty accurate with the red dot you see at 100 yards318188
The rig snaps naturally to my shoulder with both eyes on target the red dot is right there with me. I keep a few 62gr green tip on the stock for hog work.

[barrabruce]

I had a 303-25 in a mk#4
It was a soft on the shoulder shooter.

[JDHasty]

I don’t know if anyone has put 7-30 Waters up for consideration yet. We have a barrel and it’s a good Contender round.

[Good Cheer]

cumminsnut76,
Look at running 30-30 brass full length into a set of 6.8 Remington SPC dies. Make the neck length to suit whatever cast boolits you want to use.

[JDHasty]

OK, if it’s obscure you seek, there was a gunsmith named G. B. Crandall who was very well respected in his day. His shop was in Woodstock Ontario. He had a number of 303 British based wildcats, of which I think the most popular was called the VarmintR. I’m not sure where all I have read about him, but do know he was a good friend of C. S. Landis and contributed to one or two of his books. I’m fairly certain the VarmintR would completely wreck a Contender in short order, but he also designed shorter cases based on the 303 British case. Crandall relined all sorts of rifles, I have even seen a photo of 20 gauge Greener shotgun that had been reined with a Parkerifled barrel liner and converted into a varmint rifle.

[Cheap Trick]

7 TCU is about perfect for a walk around rifle. I load up 130 grain cast, with a frugal amount of 2400, for my 10" pistol barrel and hit my 10" iron target at 200 yards just about every time. Accurate soft recoil with the cast bullets and you have the option of respectable velocity with hotter loads.

[jonp]

O.P. posted:

- the more obscure cartridge the better as I do reload as long as brass and bullets are available or can be cast for.

Hornets do not qualify.

True but he did say he needed brass to be available. I took that to mean off the shelf not made from other calibers. Considering the site I should have taken that as a given.

[rbuck351]

I didn't think obscure and available brass fit together unless he is thinking available parent brass for reforming.

[Shawlerbrook]

Even before I read through all the suggestions ( and many are very good) I thought 25 35 or 256 Winchester. Another I’ll add is the 357/44 Bain & Davis.

[jonp]

357 Max?

[jwhite]

I just ordered a 32 H&R Contender barrel from MGM, should make for a pretty good walk about, woods bumming rifle. Cases are available, easy to load and easy on powder.
JW

[swamp]

I got a 7.62x39 barrel from them for my Contender. Makes a great lightweight carbine. Cast only thru it.
swamp

[barrabruce]

25 Jeffery

[georgerkahn]

One of my (many) regrets was having for a short time (sold it: needed $$$ for kid's meds) a Contender in 22-250. It was "scary accurate", light weight, and GREAT for small critters. The ONLY down-size is that it was not very quiet. Sadly, the 22-250 -- also called the Varminter by many -- has, at least in my area, faded into allllmost obsolescence -- but brass acquisition should not prove to be too much of a challenge.
geo

[besk]

I have read about a 223/25 that was easy to load for and very versatile. Necking up the 223 gives you a longer neck for cast boolits.

[czgunner]

I think 6.8 SPC would be a good choice.

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[cumminsnut76]

I do like the option of a necked up 223 or 223 derived cartridge just due to plentiful brass. What's out there using either 223 or 221 fireball brass? obviously I know the blackout but thinking maybe something in between the .224 and .308? Lots of great options.

[WRideout]

I have thought of a 25-20 or 32-20. I’ve also thought about something along the lines of a 30 Luger. All great ideas. Keep them coming

I have a revolver in 32-20 which I like very much except for the requirement to keep pressures low in a pistol. I also have a 7.62x25 Tokarev pistol. If you like to make your own cases, they are pretty easy when starting from .223/556 brass. I use the 100 gr Lee round nose in both of them. Also in the 7.62x38R Nagant pistol. Did I say I like 30 caliber handguns?

Wayne

[P Flados]

I do like the option of a necked up 223 or 223 derived cartridge just due to plentiful brass. What's out there using either 223 or 221 fireball brass? obviously I know the blackout but thinking maybe something in between the .224 and .308? Lots of great options.

Again, take a look at the 7 TCU. Very easy to make from 223 brass. Like a number of others, I have found it to be "cast friendly". More rare was the 6.5 TCU. I am not sure I have seen much on using cast in the 6.5 TCU.

[Shanghai Jack]

+1 on the Badger but I think I'd be forced into something like a 219 Donaldson Wasp - just because it rolls off the tongue.

[uscra112]

+1 on the Badger but I think I'd be forced into something like a 219 Donaldson Wasp - just because it rolls off the tongue.

The Wasp was known it its' day as having to be loaded to mind-stretching pressures to get accuracy out of it. And it was LOUD even in a full length rifle barrel.

[Shanghai Jack]

The Wasp was known it its' day as having to be loaded to mind-stretching pressures to get accuracy out of it. And it was LOUD even in a full length rifle barrel.

Yep but where else can you play with 220 swift velocities approaching 4000 fps and 63000 psi - not for the faint of heart and maybe not for the Contender in its full house loads.

[uscra112]

LOL! No maybe about it. Even the Encore frame will probable stretch at those pressures. Contender definitely will. My only Contender frame was stretched a good ten thou. Only after I'd bought it did I find out that he'd had a .22-250 barrel on it!

[Randy Bohannon]

25/45 Sharps, full length 223 case necked up to 25 cal. Very good accuracy.

[TurnipEaterDown]

LOL! No maybe about it. Even the Encore frame will probable stretch at those pressures. Contender definitely will. My only Contender frame was stretched a good ten thou. Only after I'd bought it did I find out that he'd had a .22-250 barrel on it!

Encore handles about what you would want to use in it.
Belted mag = OK. Factory had 7 mm Rem Mag if memory is good.
I know people were putting 416 Rigby in it when released.

Very stout.

More so than hands, if in the pistol...

[Ramjet-SS]

30-30 Ackley Improved pick up 5% and can easily be made from standard 30-30 brass it has a good punch but not bad recoil. Single shot so you can use spire point bullets or a good cast HP or WFN GC.

[chill45100]

How about either 218 Bee or Mashburn Bee??
Chill45100

[Jedman]

I have a handi rifle barrel I built in 256 win mag with 1-10 twist and it’s a really surprising performer with heavier bullets. I have the reamer and it allows a 2.00” OAL with most pointed bullets ( 75 - 100 grs. ) and is really not far behind the 25-35 . In a single shot where OAL is not an issue it’s a great little caliber that I would recommend.
Jedman

[35 Rem]

The 32-20 is a great little cartridge for this type shooting. I'd give it a lot of thought.

[Texas by God]

The .256 Winchester makes more sense than the 25-20 nowadays based on availability of brass alone.
Not much .256 brass out there; but there’s a lot of .357 brass to make it from.
I’m a fan of the .218 Bee for my “between .22 LR and .223 Rem” needs.


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[dverna]

The .256 Winchester makes more sense than the 25-20 nowadays based on availability of brass alone.
Not much .256 brass out there; but there’s a lot of .357 brass to make it from.
I’m a fan of the .218 Bee for my “between .22 LR and .223 Rem” needs.


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.218 Bee should be ideal. Just checked Ammoseek and neither the .218 Bee or the parent case (.32/20) are available. It would suck to download a .223 and not meet the obscure "need".

[besk]

In my opinion, the cartridge would have a rim, be somewhere from 25 to 30 caliber, not have overly thin case walls and have a decent neck length. My choice would definitely be the 256 Winchester. The .32/20 is surely a nice choice though.

[racepres]

I seem to enjoy my contender caliber betters when I can get / make my brass from stuff that I can pick up at the range.

And then I will throw in a caliber between the two above. 7 TCU uses 223 brass and works great in a Contender (I love mine and shoot it a lot). This round will be more powerful than the two above, but less of an "overkill" for small game than stuff like the 30-30 or bigger. My gun loves the Lee 128 if you do not already have suitable a 7mm mold. This one is very close to the 30 Herrett in performance, but is a little easier to make.

If you like the idea of 30 cal and want more power than the 30 Badger, consider the 300 BO. I did a Quickload study and the 300 BO will give you the same or slightly better performance in a Contender than a 30 Herrett. Case capacity is a little less, but allowed pressure is higher. Again, I like the 223 based case (both from a cost standpoint and from a diameter standpoint). Dies are easier to find than any previously mentioned round.

For both the 7 TCU and the 300 BO, rimless should not worry you at all unless there is some special concern such as use in extreme cold or bad hands/fingers.


I will echo the 7mm TCU recommendation. The problem I see is trying to get both the powder puff and the 200 yard requirements to play nice together. Me, I'd get a 32-20 and call it good enough, though it would leave the woodchuck at 175 yards out of range from me.


7 TCU is about perfect for a walk around rifle. I load up 130 grain cast, with a frugal amount of 2400, for my 10" pistol barrel and hit my 10" iron target at 200 yards just about every time. Accurate soft recoil with the cast bullets and you have the option of respectable velocity with hotter loads.


Again, take a look at the 7 TCU. Very easy to make from 223 brass. Like a number of others, I have found it to be "cast friendly". More rare was the 6.5 TCU. I am not sure I have seen much on using cast in the 6.5 TCU.


Made me give some thought to how much I use My 7TCU...
Probably the Very Most of Any...Excellent Round, Especially with Cast!!!. Can you say Versatile?
But, I still consider the 410 as Obscure...certainly based on Price/Availability!!!!!
Some Interesting responses...

[TurnipEaterDown]

You Could do your own cartridge, and have the reamer made.
This is not expensive. I have done it several times.

The expensive part is forming dies when needed, and you would need to send the reamer off to a TC barrel maker.
The "normal" reloading dies wouldn't be much different in cost for some cases, oddballs fall into specialty groups for RCBS dies for instance and they are pricey anyway.

TC Contender - Rimmed case is good.
Don't do a JDJ and use something like a 225 Winchester parent -- ground is plowed, capacity and head size is such that you better have pressure equipment, and the 225 availability (lack of) should be well known.
Head size: 30-30 max for 45-50 K Psi. 44 Rem Mag - max for 40 K psi. 357 Mag - run it as you like (you could lean on to 60 K psi).
Bore - want to cast, have a good supply of commercial jacketed, use for pest / small / medium game -- go as small as 25 Cal.

You'll probably find what you can think of has been done, or is Functionally something already done (wildcatting is that way, new ideas aren't new). BUT: you will have put in some educational work doing something over again, because you didn't realize you were.

Maybe something along the lines of:

44 rem mag parent case, neck w/ 35 degree to 6.5 mm, 0.25" neck - Yes a bullet will hang out (come back to that).
Parallel throat - 0.001" over sized cast bullet dia, 3 degree taper to rifling, throat to touch ogive for 120 gr cast of your choice w/ base of bullet at base of neck, twist it at 1:9 (slow as offered).

Shoot bullets 120 gr & under.
Want to shoot a moderate size game animal, use a 120 gr partition.

Cast: the bullet will hang out. Powder coat or use the traditional lube bullets only at the range.

Data - model your Wildcat in a reliable program, and look at a 6.5 Grendel for comparative volume (it's Likely close) to triangulate the data to known Grendel data.
Keep your target Energy at / below what the model says when you use a chronograph (as long as the model makes good estimates for teh comparative case like the Grendel).

Look for Close To 6.5 Grendel performance, but it's yours and it's rimmed.

[Texas by God]

.218 Bee should be ideal. Just checked Ammoseek and neither the .218 Bee or the parent case (.32/20) are available. It would suck to download a .223 and not meet the obscure "need".

I inherited 200 .218 Bee brass before I barreled the gun. Otherwise I would have done without a Bee based on the ridiculous price of ammo or the rarity of brass for it. All of my .223s are ARs so I can’t download them, but I have before for bolt action .223s- and 22-250s so I see your point there!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uscra112]

If .218 Bee is a permitted option, how about the .22 2R Lovell? Same case capacity, but according to contemporary sources more accurate.

There's a basketful of brass and a set of dies on Gunbroker at this very moment. $400 for the lot isn't too shocking given today's brass prices.

If it comes to it, brass can be made from .223, although it's a laborious process.

Handles anything up to coyotes, and maybe Texas deer, but not our northern behemoth bucks. Download it to .22 LR velocity for small game.

[John Taylor]

Update on the 10x25R, we switched to necking down Starline .44 Russian brass, which produces a 0.975" case in one pass with no trimming or neck reaming needed. John has the reamer and can make dies by annealing, shortening, reaming, polishing and rehardening .38-40 dies.

With 180-grain lead Accurate 40-182H .38-40 bullet 5 grains of Bullseye gives 1000 fps in a 5-1/2" revolver and 1080 fps in a 22-inch rifle barrel. An Accurate 40-224H 224-grain lead bullet with 6 grains of Unique gives 950 fps revolver and 1070 fps rifle. A lightly compressed charge of 22 grains Goex 3Fg with the. 40-224H gives 670 fps in a 5-inch revolver, and 1000 fps from the rifle. Accurate 40-252H with 16 grains of IMR4227 gives 1080 fps revolver and 1340 fps rifle. A fully adequate woods deer rifle.
318148318149318150318151

I make reloading dies from pieces of barrel blanks, 4140 steel. Reloading dies are made from 12L14 and case hardened ( Nitrided ), once you cut through the case they are soft.

[Bigslug]

Joining the thread late, and have only skimmed, but. . .

How about the .30-40 Krag? Not unlike the .30-30, but with more boiler room, neck length, and throw weight potential.

Edit to add: The .32-40 Win emphatically does not suck either. One of the classic single shot 200 yard Scheutzen rounds.

[uscra112]

I make reloading dies from pieces of barrel blanks, 4140 steel. Reloading dies are made from 12L14 and case hardened ( Nitrided ), once you cut through the case they are soft.

I know that's true of Lee dies. Have others jumped on that bandwagon? My older non-Lee dies seem to be through-hsrdened. Although I don't go hacking around on them very often, the times when I have shortened one I had to use a cutoff wheel.

[Jeff Michel]

38-40 or 7mm TCU

[wch]

I suggest the 22 Hornet.
I have a Winchester 1885 low wall in 22 K Hornet and it makes an ideal walk-around for me.

[Shanghai Jack]

I do like the option of a necked up 223 or 223 derived cartridge just due to plentiful brass. What's out there using either 223 or 221 fireball brass? obviously I know the blackout but thinking maybe something in between the .224 and .308? Lots of great options.

30 Herrett?

[gunther]

The original "walk around rifle" was probably the 30 carbine.
Read "Shots Fired in Anger". Use your energy working out accurizing the Carbine. Then write an article on that effort.

[JDHasty]

I’ve got a pair 17 & 20 Garin Remington 580s. The Garin cartridges are based on the 30 Carbine case. There are also 22, 24 & 25 versions.

http://surestrikesystem.com/technical/loadData.php

[pull the trigger]

277 wolverine

222

[5090SS]

You could walk about with a .300 Rook

[Te Hopo]

Personally I'd be using the .22Hornet barrel you say you have.
But seeing as youre asking for something different, I'd be looking at the 256Win Mag.
Plenty of parent brass and projectile selection out there, decent amount of power and its a dandy looking little round.

[Wayne Smith]

I wanted a quarter bore single shot. Settled on the 25 Krag AI because A) I found a set of dies on Midway sale years ago, B) internal capacity better than the 256 Winchester or the 30-30 necked down. A fellow member here offered me a set of reamers he would not use because of his age. I got a barrel for my Encore and have been using it for several years. I have posted my process of making cartridges here in the past. It's capacity is 2 grains of water less than the 25-06 and two grains of water more than the 257 Roberts AI and I have data for both. Those reamers are in the hands of a gunsmith in Virginia Beach, VA, if anyone else wants to follow my process.

[besk]

I've been thinking about a 18" 357 mag. barrel for my Contender. I acquired an extra screw-in choke for the Contender pistol barrels years ago and wonder if it would be usable on a rifle barrel. For a walk-around gun the option of using shot for close in duty is tempting.

[curiousgeorge]

I'm surprised no one has suggested the 25 Copperhead. With a nod to the late, great John Wooters, this was his idea of the perfect all around small game up to deer round. Simply the 222 Remington necked up to 25 caliber.

Just another suggestion.