Tips or suggestions to improve look of old stock repair

[Rockingkj]

Just got this old muzzle loader. It has a rather poorly done stock repair. Ideas or suggestions to improve the cosmetic appearance of the repaired area? The old gal has a pretty decent bore. Marked on the barrel unreadable name & MUZZY ?

[LAGS]

I really don't see why that stock could not be fully repaired and looking great.
I would tear it down.
Then try to see what type of glue they used to do the previous repairs.
If possible.
Soak the stock and pull apart the old repairs.
Then you can rebuild it properly.
But there are ways to just infill the bad spots on those repairs and it will look better but maybe not as nice.
Tear the rifle down and post pictures.
I bet we can guide you thru this project.

[Rockingkj]

I really don't see why that stock could not be fully repaired and looking great.
I would tear it down.
Then try to see what type of glue they used to do the previous repairs.
If possible.
Soak the stock and pull apart the old repairs.
Then you can rebuild it properly.
But there are ways to just infill the bad spots on those repairs and it will look better but maybe not as nice.
Tear the rifle down and post pictures.
I bet we can guide you thru this project.

My initial impression is a the glue was a modern glue like that Gorilla glue that foams a bit as it sets.

[Rockingkj]

Figured out the maker Hitchcock & Muzzy Worcester Mass 1840-1857. Appears to be approx .44 cal. .445 ball will not fit in muzzle. Bare .433 will roll in.

[LAGS]

Are you going to refinish the metal or just leave it to look like a part of history.
The stock being damaged will bring down the collectors value.
But it might be something great to fully restore if you can.

[Rockingkj]

I will leave the metal as is. Does not have active rust anywhere Like old guns to show the honest wear they have earned thru the years. Makes em more interesting. Eventually will shoot it. Nipple looks good but probably needs replaced for a shooter.

[CastingFool]

I have heard about using acraglas for stock repairs, but I have no experience with it.

Silly spell checker inserted raglan for acraglas

[LAGS]

If you are not going to totally rebuild it as a piece of history.
I would suggest you glass bed the barrel into the stock.
If properly done, it will reinforce the stock and assure that the barrel is fitting every time you shoot it.
Look at some of the posts that I did where I bedded the barrels.
The one post was for a Bubba'ed Barrel Repair and the stock that was on it was poorly inletted and cracked

[Rockingkj]

I might just do that. At this point mainly looking to make the exterior more presentable. Fill in those nasty cracks and voids. Any suggestions for that? Thanks Tim.

[LAGS]

You can fill the cracks and voids with epoxy also.
You are not going to get the color to match perfectly.
But it can be close.
I have also filled dents with colored epoxy clay that I get at Home Depot.
It is called JB Kwik Wood.
It doesn't take that long to cure , plus sands down easily if needed.
And is colored so it can be close to matching the wood

[Mk42gunner]

I know of no surefire 100% fix for all wood repairs, it seems to me like every stock is different.

My suggestion is to get a few pieces of wood that closely matches your stock, then break some of it apart and try the various fixes and see what looks best to you, before attempting the actual stock.

I think I could make a serviceable repair, but it would always show. There are probably some people that can make a serviceable and unseen repair.

Good Luck,

Robert

[Rockingkj]

Thanks will see I can do to fill and match up color on the stock. 2nd task will be building a lollipop tang sight for it. Drilled and tapped for one. Have to figure the size and pitch for the present hole.

[Sasquatch-1]

If the old repair is sturdy, have you thought about an inlay of some sort? Something like brass or silver wire or even a brass or iron plate of some kind.

[Rockingkj]

I have seen the overlay of brass sheet tacked on as a stock repair. Something to consider as a last resort. I have taken out a lot of the surface glue in the exterior. At this point trying a walnut colored filler. When that has cured and sanded down will know if that’s the fix. Will post pics of my success or dismal failure.

[LAGS]

Regular Wood Putty works to fill cracks.
I use it mostly to build up areas to reshape the stocks whan I was building Blanks to use on a stock duplicator.
The only thing I found with the wood putty is.
If the finished areas are not sealed really well.
Chemicals like oils and cleaners can soften the wood putty.
But just be carefully and put on a sealing type finish like TruOil instead of Boiled Linseed Oil.

[Rockingkj]

Found I had some walnut colored DAP wood putty and used that. Thru the years have learned to have a little tray of acetone and artist paint bush handy. Applying the acetone helps the putty be more workable and smooths and gets the filler into the cracks. Will post pics when done but looking real good now.

[LAGS]

You are correct about thinning the putty with Acetone to get it to flow down into cracks better.
Or brush the acetone on the top as you are working to make the putty more flexible while you shape the patch to fit well and smoother.
Most of the stocks that I have repaired were more modern rifles.
So patching with modern products didn't have as much noticable in the final finish.
One thing I like about the Epoxy Putty is that it also works as a glue to not only fill the cracks , but glue up any voids.
The epoxy too can be thinned and smoothed out with Acetone or Denatured Alcohol.

[fourarmed]

I second the idea of glass bedding or reinforcing inside where it doesn't show to strengthen it, then use a dremel-type tool with a small burr tip to take out the top layer of the ugly glue on the outside. Fill it with Acraglas gel colored slightly darker than the surrounding wood. Darker is not as noticeable as lighter, and if you use linseed oil on the stock, it will darken naturally.

[porthos]

the very poor repair looks to be different widths. how about this; round file wide enough to get everything deepened to the same width; and the proper width of dowel rod. epoxied in. might have to do in sections. or better yet carefully cut and file out a 1/2 inch or so section the length of the repair and epoxy in the appropriate width rectangle piece of same shade wood. by the way, it looks like a gorilla glue repair. very bad stuff to fix anything!!

[Rockingkj]

Here is the beginning of the face lift. Many layers of Truoil yet to go to smooth out completely

[pietro]

.

Congrats ! That repair looks great ! :drinks:

[LAGS]

A friend contacted me weeks ago.
He has his Dad's Kentucky rifle that someone broke the stock in two.
He wanted me to order a new stock for the rifle.
But he doesn't know who the manufacture is , so I can't do that till I see the rifle.
I asked him to let me Repair the stock since chances are.
The stock may be hard to find.
Plus it is going to cost him a bunch just to get a used stock.
I told him.
Bring me the rifle , and I can give him his best option.
But if the stock is not repairable, it might be easier if I just built him a new stock.

[Rockingkj]

A friend contacted me weeks ago.
He has his Dad's Kentucky rifle that someone broke the stock in two.
He wanted me to order a new stock for the rifle.
But he doesn't know who the manufacture is , so I can't do that till I see the rifle.
I asked him to let me Repair the stock since chances are.
The stock may be hard to find.
Plus it is going to cost him a bunch just to get a used stock.
I told him.
Bring me the rifle , and I can give him his best option.

But if the stock is not repairable, it might be easier if I just built him a new stock.

For sure even most modern made ML a replacement stock can be hard to get or expensive. Evilbay has folks making a living parting out TC’s and selling every little part.

[LAGS]

Yes.
If the price is right , or the TC parts they are selling that need repairs , I buy the parts.
I use the parts to rebuild lots of TC's or even modify the parts slightly to build Parts Guns that are very functional.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I would take a small file or more properly a "Rifler" and undercut the existing fix about 1/8" all around. Then I would mix up some JB Weld and color it with black pigment available at your local Surf Shop . Then start filling the cracks until they are completely full and a little proud so they can be sanded to fair. Then continue with whatever stock finish you were going to do.

What you are doing is "Embracing the Repair," instead of trying to hide it which you will never be able to do. Just to make it so that it doesn't look like the only place that was fixed use a Black Sharpie to enhance the grain near the fix. Find the heaviest grain lines and run the Sharpie over them and blend the new lines into the grain using an Alcohol Soaked Rag.

As far as leaving the metal like it is I would seriously consider using a Birchwood Casey Plum Browning Kit to return it to it's original color.

Point being,,, You will have to completely refinish the stock to make it presentable after the fix and then it will look half done if the Metal is not brought back as Well.

My .02

Randy

[Shawlerbrook]

A fairly close match to fill a void can be made from a mixture of glue and some sanding dust from part of the stock not visible. Randy has a good suggestion.

[Rockingkj]

Not perfect but I’m calling it done.

[Sasquatch-1]

Great job. I can hardly tell where the repair was done.

[LAGS]

Looks pretty good.
Are you adding it to your collection ?

[Rockingkj]

Thanks. at this point will join my other antique muzzleloaders. Looking forward to shooting it.

[georgerkahn]

Just got this old muzzle loader. It has a rather poorly done stock repair. Ideas or suggestions to improve the cosmetic appearance of the repaired area? The old gal has a pretty decent bore. Marked on the barrel unreadable name & MUZZY ?

A "trick" an Amish furniture maker showed me years back is to break apart wood where glued, and carefully scrape off dried glue remnants. Then, over a cookie sheet drill -- he used an egg-beater style mechanical drill with a 5/16" bit -- a few holes as deep as you might without coming through. Carefully tap all the sawdust made from drilling into a jar -- he used one from Gerber baby food. Then, do the same drill drill to a piece of pine lumber, with the sawdust from this detail in a 2nd jar. Armed with a Popsicle stick, he added white glue to the PINE dust to make a paste with which he filled all the drilled holes. Then, he made a similar paste of the shavings from furniture piece drilled holes, and used an index finger to put a very thin coat on both halves as he pressed them together. He used rubber cut from truck tire inner tubes as a "rubber band" to keep it held together. Followed was the application of the rest of the sawdust+white glue mixture to fill all cracks and gouges, leaving it just a tad proud. The next day he removed rubber and used both scrapers and sandpaper. Bion, the break was now invisible!

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK that came out pretty good. You embraced the repair instead of trying to hide it. .

Randy

[725]

I've added sawdust, from a matching type wood, to the epoxy when trying to make a fill. Without seeing the piece, I think I'd try to inlet a metal re-enforcing bar inside the barrel channel deep enough to be covered by a barrel bedding. Work the old glue off it and try and do a fill in the channel / cracks left behind.. Bed the barrel with the bar "submerged" under the bedding compound. Good luck.

[StrawHat]

I've added sawdust, from a matching type wood, to the epoxy when trying to make a fill. Without seeing the piece, I think I'd try to inlet a metal re-enforcing bar inside the barrel channel deep enough to be covered by a barrel bedding. Work the old glue off it and try and do a fill in the channel / cracks left behind.. Bed the barrel with the bar "submerged" under the bedding compound. Good luck.

While that might work on a cartridge rifle, there is not a lot of wood between the barrel and ramrod channel on most antique muzzleloaders.

Kevin

[LAGS]

I have glass bedded many ML rifle stocks.
One thing that I did.
Was to take a steel rod the size of the ramrod.
I put the release agent on the steel rod and placed it in the stock like it was the ramrod.
I carved out areas where I could put reinforcement for the stock.
With the steel rod in place , you could see how thin the wood was, and when you glass bedded the berrel in.
You don't end up with epoxy in the ramrod hole.
The steel rod also helps give the stock a little support when you clamp the barrel into the stock during glass bedding.
When done with the bedding.
Pull the steel rod out After you remove the barrel from the bedding.
It helps support the forend of the stock so you have less chance of cracking the stock again.

[country gent]

Leave it and create a good story for it. IE Thats where Great great grandpa ran out of balls and had to swing it like a ball bat

[LAGS]

That is a great idea.
But as I have bought many historical weapons in the past.
I concern myself with the weapon itself and even damage that has been repaired over time.
Lies on how damage happened ain't worth upping the cost of the gun.
Unless someone you are selling it too is part of the family.

[Shawlerbrook]

That looks good to me .

[Rockingkj]

Thanks to all. I have a particular weakness for old Muzzle loaders. We all love an antique gun in super condition and marvel at how it remained in that shape for 150+ years. However the old gun with honest wear and use has character and charm all its own. Fun to think about that tool being the grocery getter, defender of the homestead and so on. We are simply temporary custodians of all we own. I hope the next custodian enjoys and appreciates these things too.

[LAGS]

I love to see some of these old Muzzleloaders in good enough shape to take out Grocery Getting.
If they are not in that good of shape ,fix them and Add your own history to them rather than just display them.

[725]

That's one one repair. Well done!

[StrawHat]

Here is one I repaired a couple, maybe three, decades ago. Found the barreled action in Pop’s garage, the rest came as a rifled musket with a crappy barrel.

318231


Lots of fun to hunt with and a good shooter.

Kevin

[redhawk0]

Rockingkj....that looks good. You should be proud. Enjoy it...and take it for a "walk" once in a while.

redhawk

[Rockingkj]

Rockingkj....that looks good. You should be proud. Enjoy it...and take it for a "walk" once in a while.

redhawk add

I will. If I get a chance to shoot it ahead of time and sight it in my club has a “turkey “ shoot in Oct. my be the gun to shoot for fun.

[Rockingkj]

The old gal has the potential to be a good shooter. 5 shots offhand at 25yds with 45gr 3f .440 ball and .017 patch all just randomly selected for the 1st shots. Stopped after that since I want to try and replace the nipple. That might be a challenge sure rusted in place.

[redhawk0]

Nothing wrong with "fun" shooter...I have some pretty ugly guns...that are just plain fun. Yours is shooting alright...is that with the open sights...or did you get that tang sight installed?

Try a little kroil to get the nipple off. If they are rusted fast...it's tough to get them out. Sometimes a little CW pressure first will help break them free before CCW to unscrew it. I had an inline that was like that. I then used a copper impregnated anti-seize before putting it back together.

Anyway...I'm sure you'll figure it out. I'm glad you're happy with the repair. Happy shooting.

redhawk

[Rockingkj]

That was with open sights. The nipple may require professional help. Its rust wielded pretty good.

[LAGS]

I worked on a rifle with a nipple rusted like that.
I taped off the area around the nipple.
Then I Bead Blasted off the surface rust.
Then I soaked it in Kroil for over a day.
The nipple didn't come loose until I applied heat with a heat gun.
I cleaned out the hole and ran a tap into the breech plug to clean up the threads.
I reinstalled the new nipples with the threads coated with shotgun choke lube to keep it from rusting up again.

[StrawHat]

ATF is a good penetrator. I have used it and heat to pull cones from c&b cylinders.

Kevin

[LAGS]

One other thing I often do to get nipples removed.
A lot of time the nipples that are rusted in place , and someone tried to remove them already.
Sometimes the nipples get part of the corners rounded off , and the nipple wrench doesn't fit snug on it.
So , I clean the nipple and wrench and epoxy the wrench on with JB Weld.
I let it sit for a day.
Then it fits better when I try to remove the nipple out.
After the nipple comes out of the gun.
Just warm up the nipple wrench with a heat gun or torch to get the nipple to come out of the wrench.
It sounds funky , but most of the time it works.

[Sasquatch-1]

I had a nipple stuck in an 1851 revolver. A friend made a nipple wrench out of a small socket and used an impact wrench to remove it.