30/30 Hardcast 178 grn Boolits.

[braddock]

While back I bought some gc hard cast 312 boolits for my 30/30 94, they are actually for the SMLE and needed sizing back to 309.
I ran them through my Lee sizer upside down, ie gc first in the hope that the round nose would be flattened back so I can run them through my mag without fear of setting off the other rounds as the recoil of these is quite heavy.

317894






as you can see from the image, the flat point is quite small but is it big enough? the center boolit is un-flatted, the two flanking boolits have been processed

[Thumbcocker]

That looks a lot like a 311291 boolit that Lyman manuals list for .30-30. Perhaps more enlightened folks can weigh in. I would have tried them at .311 for most .30-30 rifles.

[dondiego]

My SMLE bores sure need boolits larger than 0.309!

[braddock]

I don't remember what they were, I just sized them with my regular sizing die as they are so darn hard and my gun is a '58 94 so I don't want to unnecessarily have to swage them down in the gun.
Gun barrel slugged at 308 btw.
IIRC the blurb that came on the packing said bhn 20-22 and safe for up to 29000+psi.317907





Here's a handful of them loaded up.
They cycle perfectly btw, the leade just marks the first full diameter step.

[atr]

for use in tubular magazines its still a round nose, not a true flat nose.

[braddock]

Yes, I thought I had clarified the issues I raised in the original post.
The cynic in me wonders if this phenomenon is something that was dreamed up by 20th century corporate lawyers. In 1936 or 7 Winchester launched the 219 Zipper cartridge in the model 64 lever gun, I recall seeing one of these guns in the very early 1960s and the ammo was spire pointed soft points.
The debate re ammo self igniting in the tube magazines appears to be ongoing in the USA I believe and whilst it hasn't been disproved neither has it been proven. Its proponents argue the fact that it remains a possibility.
I also wonder which is the harder, lead alloy or brass.

[dondiego]

Yes, I thought I had clarified the issues I raised in the original post.
The cynic in me wonders if this phenomenon is something that was dreamed up by 20th century corporate lawyers. In 1936 or 7 Winchester launched the 219 Zipper cartridge in the model 64 lever gun, I recall seeing one of these guns in the very early 1960s and the ammo was spire pointed soft points.
The debate re ammo self igniting in the tube magazines appears to be ongoing in the USA I believe and whilst it hasn't been disproved neither has it been proven. Its proponents argue the fact that it remains a possibility.
I also wonder which is the harder, lead alloy or brass.

Brass is way more harder than lead alloy! A .219 Zipper doesn't produce much recoil but it is a different story with a 30-30 or larger cartridge.

[Mk42gunner]

Yes, I thought I had clarified the issues I raised in the original post.
The cynic in me wonders if this phenomenon is something that was dreamed up by 20th century corporate lawyers. In 1936 or 7 Winchester launched the 219 Zipper cartridge in the model 64 lever gun, I recall seeing one of these guns in the very early 1960s and the ammo was spire pointed soft points.
The debate re ammo self igniting in the tube magazines appears to be ongoing in the USA I believe and whilst it hasn't been disproved neither has it been proven. Its proponents argue the fact that it remains a possibility.
I also wonder which is the harder, lead alloy or brass.
Not really. There was a documented magtube blowup in the US Army rifle trials of 1881 (IIRC) with a Marlin Model 1881 in .45 Gov't (.45-70 to you and I these days).

I think with the 500 grains loads, not 100% sure on that part. I also don't remember reading if the shooter was injured or not.

My personal thoughts are it isn't likely to happen, but I am not willing to risk my own body parts on "It isn't likely."

Robert

[Sam Sackett]

I don’t think I’d use those bullets on a 30/30. If they are hard enough to not flatten when sized from 312 to 309, the points are pretty substantial. 30/30 has pretty good recoil and I’d not chance it.

But then, I won’t poke a tiger in the ass just to see what happens either.

Sam Sackett

[Hick]

I use round nose like those in 30-30 very often. If you don't jam the final round in the magazine tube so that the spring is all the way compressed, the recoil will only put spring pressure on the bullet. As the rifle recoils the cartridges try to move forward against the spring pressure. As long as the spring has room to give the recoil force does not hit the cartridges.

[Land Owner]

It won't take much "encouragement" for some to test the theory of hard cast semi-spitzer alloy boolits in a tubular 30-30 magazine. For myself (and others), I encourage the use of spitzer booilts in tubular magazines in the following manner:

1.) Load the round in the chamber as a spitzer.
2.) Load the first round in the magazine, with no other round in front of it, as a spitzer.
3.) Load any other rounds in the magazine as RN, FN, TRN, etc., specifically designated for the 30-30.
4.) Do not forget 2.) above.
or,
5.) Load only two (2) rounds, both spitzers; one (1) in the chamber, and (1) in the magazine...after all, it is only going to take one (well placed) round...
6.) If you need a "long range" rifle, use a long-range rifle, which the 30-30 is not known to be.

[Hick]

It won't take much "encouragement" for some to test the theory of hard cast semi-spitzer alloy boolits in a tubular 30-30 magazine. For myself (and others), I encourage the use of spitzer booilts in tubular magazines in the following manner:

1.) Load the round in the chamber as a spitzer.
2.) Load the first round in the magazine, with no other round in front of it, as a spitzer.
3.) Load any other rounds in the magazine as RN, FN, TRN, etc., specifically designated for the 30-30.
4.) Do not forget 2.) above.
or,
5.) Load only two (2) rounds, both spitzers; one (1) in the chamber, and (1) in the magazine...after all, it is only going to take one (well placed) round...
6.) If you need a "long range" rifle, use a long-range rifle, which the 30-30 is not known to be.

Not a bad idea. When I shoot spritzers in my 30-30 I don't put any in the magazine-- but that's because the spritzer that shoots best in my 30-30 is too long for the cartridges lifter.