Pro’s and Con’s of lining a barrel on a original Winchester Model 73?

[Babbott213]

Here’s where I’m at. My original Winchester Model 73 that’s chambered in 44wcf, just isn’t getting it done when shooting at 50 yards or more. With the Big Lube Groove Boolit cast from pure lead and charged with black powder, I’m getting wandering bullets and key holes. 25 yards or less, it’s pretty much a nail driver, but add some distance and it’s bad.

The only bullet at distance that will cut a clean round hole is Buffalo Arms 222grain hollow base bullet, but at distance, it’s not a consistent hit on paper.

So I’m thinking about having the barrel lined. What are the Pro’s and Con’s of this? I know that it will take away some of the gun’s value, but I don’t plan on parting with this gun, so I’m not really concerned about that. What I am concerned with is the liner being glued in and over time the liner becoming loose. I haven’t heard much about welding them in though.

Does anyone have any personal experience with having a barrel lined, or that install’s liners in old barrels?

Any recommendations of anyone that could do a good quality job?

One other thing, is the original barrel is a 5 groove barrel, so I’d like to go with a 5 groove liner if possible. I found one on Track of the Wolf for a Henry 44-40, and I’m checking to see if that one will work with this gun.

Looking for suggestions or experience.


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[LAGS]

I have done liners on barrels over many years.
Most of the barrels had Trashed Rifling or were worn really bad.
You might try calling someone like Bobby Hoyt and see if he can do the barrel in the caliber and rifling twist that you want for the type of loads you intend to shoot.
IE
The 5 groove rifling.
I have Hoyt do many barrels for my Muzzleloaders that had bad barrels.
Most of the barrels that I did myself were for .22 cal.
They ended up shooting great , plus restored some very old collectable rifles.

[Chill Wills]

I have had a lot of barrels lined. The smith (John King) that did them for me retired.

There is a man on the forum that does them. I have no experience with him, he gets good reviews.
Richard at Schuetzen Gun Co is a gun builder of top notch Singleshots and his work is old school top of the trade. I've seen a lot of his rifles and each has been master work and they shoot as good as they look.

I would choose TJ's liners above all others. They are simply the best available if accuracy is the goal. Look to pay $5.25 per inch for the liner blank.

[Outpost75]

John Taylor has relined several for me. Been very satisfied.

[M-Tecs]

Here’s where I’m at. My original Winchester Model 73 that’s chambered in 44wcf, just isn’t getting it done when shooting at 50 yards or more. With the Big Lube Groove Boolit cast from pure lead and charged with black powder, I’m getting wandering bullets and key holes. 25 yards or less, it’s pretty much a nail driver, but add some distance and it’s bad.

The only bullet at distance that will cut a clean round hole is Buffalo Arms 222grain hollow base bullet, but at distance, it’s not a consistent hit on paper.

So I’m thinking about having the barrel lined. What are the Pro’s and Con’s of this? I know that it will take away some of the gun’s value, but I don’t plan on parting with this gun, so I’m not really concerned about that. What I am concerned with is the liner being glued in and over time the liner becoming loose. I haven’t heard much about welding them in though.

Does anyone have any personal experience with having a barrel lined, or that install’s liners in old barrels?

Any recommendations of anyone that could do a good quality job?

One other thing, is the original barrel is a 5 groove barrel, so I’d like to go with a 5 groove liner if possible. I found one on Track of the Wolf for a Henry 44-40, and I’m checking to see if that one will work with this gun.

Looking for suggestions or experience.


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Sounds more like undersize bullets coupled with the Big Lube bullets design. I am not a fan of most of the Big Lube designs. Bores on rifles of that vintage tend to run large. That being said I have been very happy with the barrels I have re-lined.

[msinc]

I have lined several. All were lever guns and all were locked in with high strength epoxy. Did my first one for myself over 20 years ago and it's still driving tacks today. I have always been very happy with the accuracy of lined barrels. Proceed with confidence. M

[Nobade]

I'm with M-Tecs on this. I would get a proper bullet from Accurate molds, (the two groove one John Kort designed) cast it from pure lead, and load over a stout charge of black powder. It may work fine and if not you will still have the right bullet for that rifle after the reline. Big Lube bullets do not shoot well at 50 yards out of anything that I have tried.

[Babbott213]

I'm with M-Tecs on this. I would get a proper bullet from Accurate molds, (the two groove one John Kort designed) cast it from pure lead, and load over a stout charge of black powder. It may work fine and if not you will still have the right bullet for that rifle after the reline. Big Lube bullets do not shoot well at 50 yards out of anything that I have tried.

Nobade, I’m already using John’s bullet that’s cast from the Accurate 43-215C Mold and it’s actually performing the worst at and over 50 yards. And I’m using pure lead and a 40 grain charge of Swiss 3F.

At this moment I’m really thinking that I will be lining this barrel.


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[Babbott213]

Sounds more like undersize bullets coupled with the Big Lube bullets design. I am not a fan of most of the Big Lube designs. Bores on rifles of that vintage tend to run large. That being said I have been very happen with the barrels I have re-lined.

Yes Sir, the bullets are undersized as the bore in this rifle measures out to .433”. A .429” bullet is as big as I can really go as going to a .430” or bigger, I can’t get the lever to close. So I went with John Kort’s bullet through the Accurate 43-215C mold and at close range “20-25” yards it performs well, but at 50 yards plus it’s terrible. The Buffalo Arms 222 grain hollow base bullet works well, but the accuracy just isn’t there from what I’ve seen so far. But at this point, I’m thinking a lining job is in order.


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[gunther]

A friend had a 92 round barrel in 32-20 relined in the same caliber. Worked great; until he had one stuck in the barrel. Trying to shoot it out was a big mistake. He blew through the liner under the front sight, which went to the moon. Liners must be pretty soft, and are kinda thin. Black powder 44-40 is a great 25 yard deer gun. A liner makes sense if you see the need for a 50 yard shot.

[fordwannabe]

Bob Hoyt has done a few liners for me. (and scratch built a barrel) He is good! I had two done that I know he did because I know what the rifling looked like before but I still cant find the seam. One I can see it but I gotta look. The accuracy is amazing and the price is fantastic. He is somewhat backed up though, so it wont be done in a week or two. I THINK IT IS WORTH THE WAIT!

[Nobade]

Nobade, I’m already using John’s bullet that’s cast from the Accurate 43-215C Mold and it’s actually performing the worst at and over 50 yards. And I’m using pure lead and a 40 grain charge of Swiss 3F.

At this moment I’m really thinking that I will be lining this barrel.


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OK, sounds like you're on the right track. If it doesn't work with that combo it's not going to work at all. That's going to be a really thin liner, but it will work if it's installed well.

[JimB..]

Yes Sir, the bullets are undersized as the bore in this rifle measures out to .433”. A .429” bullet is as big as I can really go as going to a .430” or bigger, I can’t get the lever to close. So I went with John Kort’s bullet through the Accurate 43-215C mold and at close range “20-25” yards it performs well, but at 50 yards plus it’s terrible. The Buffalo Arms 222 grain hollow base bullet works well, but the accuracy just isn’t there from what I’ve seen so far. But at this point, I’m thinking a lining job is in order.


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You’ve obviously thought this through, but just in case, have you considered having the throat reamed so you can fit a properly sized bullet?

[Dave H]

I have a Winchester 73 chambered in 22 short you could not shoot it the chamber and bore was bad I installed a 22 liner and cut the chamber with a friends chamber tool. I questioned my wanting to fix the shooting ability of this old gun verses devaluing the gun but I don't figure on selling the gun and I wanted to shoot it. I have a 73 in 44/40 that shoots ok but I'm afraid to look at the bore with my bore scope sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.

[waksupi]

Yes Sir, the bullets are undersized as the bore in this rifle measures out to .433”. A .429” bullet is as big as I can really go as going to a .430” or bigger, I can’t get the lever to close. So I went with John Kort’s bullet through the Accurate 43-215C mold and at close range “20-25” yards it performs well, but at 50 yards plus it’s terrible. The Buffalo Arms 222 grain hollow base bullet works well, but the accuracy just isn’t there from what I’ve seen so far. But at this point, I’m thinking a lining job is in order.


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It sounds like the chamber could maybe use reaming out a bit, assuming the cartridge length is compatible. You need to figure out why the action won't close on a fatter bullet. I'm betting it's the chamber. How does the bore look?

[John Taylor]

T J's has a 44-40 liner , 5 groove with 1 in 24" twist for the first model 1873. The original barrel should have a 1 in 36 twist. Green mountain has new octagon blank 44-40 with 1 in 36 twist, not sure if it has the same taper for a 73, may be for the 92.

[fourarmed]

I had Redmon reline mine with a liner he advertised as .428" in the grooves. It turned out to be almost .431" and rounds loaded with .431" boolits wouldn't chamber. I made an aluminum cylinder about .410" in diameter iirc, slotted it lengthwise, and drilled and tapped one end to take a rod small enough to go through the firing pin opening in the receiver. I also drilled a small hole in the side of it. I could lower it into the ejection port, run the threaded rod in from the rear and start it into the threaded hole. I held it with another rod stuck in the second hole, and tightened it. Then I slipped a strip of emery cloth into the slot, rotated the rod to wrap the cloth around the cylinder, ran it into the chamber, and spun it with a small socket on a 1/4" ratchet. I had to file some flats on the rod so the socket gripped it.

I would do that until it turned easily, then pull it out and slip a paper shim under the cloth and repeat. It took a few repetitions until the chamber neck was big enough. Now it shoots great.

[john.k]

All 44-40s Ive owned had very tight necks in the chamber ......rest of the chamber may be loose ,not the neck...........the one I have now is so tight that a 429 dia bullet is a snug fit in a fired case .......for blackpowder reloads ,no sizing is needed .

[Outpost75]

The reamer John Taylor used to cut my .44-40s produces a .448 chamber neck which provides easy chambering and safe release clearance loading .431 bullets in Starline brass. Many .44-40 chambers are .445" in the neck and present a tight fit with bullets over .428".

[Babbott213]

Thanks Everyone for the comments and sorry for my long absence in responding. Soon after my post I developed some back issues that’s had me down. Finally got a spinal block and that’s helped a lot. But I think I now have a good plan for this 73 now that I hope to be getting on here in the next few months. Again, Thank You!! [emoji106][emoji106]


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[gmsharps]

I have a 1873 in 44-40 made around 1878. The barrell on its was actualy oval where I guess it was cleaned to much. The bullets would keyhole at 25 yards. So it was going to be a wall hanger or have it relined. I had it relined and made a great shooter out of it. The bore is .429.

Gmsharps

[Bent Ramrod]

Unless your 73 is NRA Very Good or better on the outside, or was owned by somebody famous, I wouldn’t worry about trashing any originality/“collector value” by fixing its accuracy or shootability. I’ve never seen the mythical well-heeled Advanced Collector pick up a brown or gray gun off the table and say, “Oh, no! It’s been relined! Too bad; I’ll have to pass it up!” The ones I see peeling off $100 bills at a table have the minty-looking guns in front of them. The squint down the barrel with the borelight is strictly ceremonial and to adjust the price if possible; they’re never going to shoot it.

Anyone who buys a gun with little original finish but in good working condition and rebored/relined is a shooter who is delighted to get a shootable specimen. The value of such old guns goes up with shootable bores, not down, IME.

[John Taylor]

I agree with Bent Ramrod. Several years back a customer sent a 1-1/2 Remington roller to me for a liner. The last few inches of the bore were rusted out. All his so called friends told him he would loose all collector value. Now he has a wall hanger with a rusted bore.