Best milsurp off the shelf accuracy

[218bee]

OK this should get something going...I know this is a VERY general question with lots of variables but............For those of you that have shot a wide variety of Milsurp rifles for accuracy or competition, is there a particular manufacturer or model that seems to stand out as generally being accurate without much fiddlin". For example ya walk into a casual shootin match and they ask ya if ya want to shoot some, and ya say I didn't bring a rifle, and they say here take yer pick and you could shoot any of these....you look at the rack and there are a variety of stock milsurps from five or six countries waiting for you to pick one....you want to shoot as best ya can so as to show these boys ya know what yer doing...so what would ya choose off the rack??
I know this is hypothetical but was wondering what opinions ya'all might have and curious to see if the same countrys military arm comes up more than others. I'm not talking "Black Rifles" either. Lets say WWII or prior.
I have not shot many but if there were a 6.5 Swede sittin there I'd feel I couldn't go wrong with that.
As I said I know there are many variables gun to gun such as sights and condition of bore and such but thought it would be fun to hear everyones .02.
So ....What say ye :coffee:

[JeffinNZ]

Swiss K31 hands down.

[405]

Good,
There are so many tricked out variations of those on the market right now I wouldn't have a clue.

The usual older suspects could be anything. Good chamber, throat, bore, headspace, bolt fit all will play a major role in cast bullet suitability along with how the different dimensions match up to each other.

A good Garand shooting jbullets would be hard to beat but the best ones aren't cheap!

The classic Swede along with the Swiss and the various Mausers... any one could be the ticket. For cheap the Ishapore is a possibility as would the various other Enfields.

But, I like the original 03 Springfield. To save a few bucks along those lines I wouldn't ignore the 03-A3 either. Even the Krag can shoot exceedingly well but the price tag can bite for the better condition shooters! For a reliable, accurate, affordable cast and jbullet bolt rifle my bias would lean toward the 03-A3. Then to save even more $ there are a ton of them out there that have been sporterized.

[atr]

Mauser 92 in 7x57 .....no need to fiddle around for decent accuracy

[bandit7.5]

1st -- swiss 1911 LOOOOOOOOONG rifle
2nd-- 1908 Brazil 7x57 LOOOOOOOONG rifle



carbines are for cavalry

[35 Whelen]

Over the last several years, I've developed an infatuation with Milsurps. Not just any milsurps, but those that are accurate, or have great potential to be accurate. (see my signature)Due to this, my gun safe has seen lots of Milsurps come and go and I have drawn alot of conclusions most of which seem to parallel others who shoot milsurps.
First, you are correct; there are some variables like sights. Obviously, aperture sights and much better than tangent sights. It doesn't matter how accurate the rifle is if the sights aren't up to snuff. Without getting into a bunch of detail, I'd say hands-down, the Swiss K-31. And I could be wrong because the Swedish Mauser is also very accurate. If you want to see for yourself, check these out:
2007 National Trophy Rifle Matches & SAFS Vintage Military Rifle Match Results (http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_eventAward.cgi?matchID=2113&eventID=14&awardID=1)
2008 National Trophy Rifle Matches & SAFS Vintage Military Rifle Match Results (http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_eventAward.cgi?matchID=3426&eventID=14&awardID=1)

You might notice that the Swiss K-31 and Swedish Mauser dominate the match. But, a closer look will reveal that in the Top 20, the Swiss K-31 comprise over half the rifles used.
I'd also throw in the 1903A3, mainly because it has better sights. Here are some targets I've fired with my Swiss K-31. Yes, it's been bedded and had a receiver sight added, but these tweaks only serve to make an accurate rifle even more accurate. In other words, the sights and bedding don't turn an inaccurate rifle into an accurate one.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/53K31Group2-1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/P3210022-1.jpg

The next few targets were fired from totally "As-issued" rifles:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/44K-31Groups3-1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/43K31Group1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/K-31Groups1.jpg

I fired this one tonight just before dark. Can't wait to try this load in good daylight!
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/03A3/P1010007descr.jpg

35W




Here are some of my own targets

[Four Fingers of Death]

Those Swiss rifles are one helluva gawky looking rifle, but a close inspection will reveal that they are a real quality item and can they shoot? Yesssssssssssss!!!! I have been on the lookout for a 03A3 with a good bore, doesn't seem to be any such animal in Australia. I have only seen one 1903 with a good bore that was for sale, I now have it, but have not had a chance to give it a workout yet.

Mick.

[jonk]

I'll give you my top 5 but they aren't in any particular order; which one takes the slight edge and wins is going to depend on the shooter, the exact condition of the gun, the load, etc.

1903 or 03A3 Springfield, K31, Swiss 1911, Swede 96, Mosin M39

Second string but still very close: Swiss 1889, Krag (US), 98k or similar (if in really nice shape), 91/30, M1 Garand

[Shepherd2]

My top three are all Swiss:

1. 1911
2. K11
3. K31

After that it is a toss up between a Mosin M39 and a Mauser 24/47

[garandsrus]

03A3 (good sights and easily adjustable, especially for windage)
Swedish 6.5x55
K-31

They all shoot great and all can be shot with cast...

John

[Boz330]

35 Whelen, what aperture sight do you have on that K-31 and where did you get it? There are some nice setups out there but they are 3 times what I paid for the rifle.

Bob

[Kraschenbirn]

+1 for the K-31 and the '03s but a really good #3 or #4 LE will hang in there with either given the proper ammo.

Bill

[pbbutz]

O3A3 for the best "user friendly sights"--read easily adjustable windage. No doubt about the Swiss' ability though.

My 1968 "no name" m39 shot a 3-shot cloverleaf at 100yards(7N1 ammo, Darrels scout mount,2.5 scope), don't ask me to do it again,hehe.:mrgreen:

butz

[chuebner]

My picks from my collection:

1943 03A3
1953 K31
1968 Finn M39

charlie

[wyowillys46]

03A3 (good sights and easily adjustable, especially for windage)
Swedish 6.5x55
K-31

They all shoot great and all can be shot with cast...

John

From what I've heard, those are the top three rifles competing at Camp Perry.

[218bee]

No votes for an 1917 Eddystone yet. Maybe because of sights??

[Lloyd Smale]

03 springfield

[corvette8n]

I like the 6.5 Swede if the barrel isnt worn.

[mike in co]

k31, swede 96, m39, 03a3, 7.62x51 k98 israeli...........

the small group at our mil bolt action is a 96 at 1.6 iron sights 100yds.
i have won a 200 yd match with a scoped, k98/308, a k31 and a m39. my scoped 03a3 took fourth this last yr at 200 yds...197 beat by 198 with x count puting two between us.

mike in co

[Tom Herman]

I had one with a slightly dark bore, and it shot unnbelievably small groups at 100 yards!

Happy Shootin'! -Tom



1st -- swiss 1911 LOOOOOOOOONG rifle
2nd-- 1908 Brazil 7x57 LOOOOOOOONG rifle



carbines are for cavalry

[John Boy]

K31 ....have worked up a 1000yd recipe for it and will see how it flies in the Spring

[Three44s]

I sure wish I had not seen those good results from the Swiss rifle ...........

.......... boo hooooo!

I feel another branch to the Obsession Tree forming!

Three 44s

[VintageRifle]

Swiss K31.

[oksmle]

I'd like to see Sundog & Sailman chime in here right about now to see if they agree with me. We have been shooting the Military Bolt Action Benchrest Match on a state wide basis since 1996, & have seen hundreds of military rifles competing in the "as issued" or "stack" condition. Meaning the original condition the rifle would have been when issued to a new recruit in whatever military service in whatever country..... My list of the top five for being able to fire the smallest 10 round group with issued ammo with no tweaking or modifications is:
1. 6.5 Swede
2. Mod. 1917 & Mod. 91/30
3. 1903 Spgfld. & .03-A3
4. Madsen
5. 98 Mauser

oksmle

[218bee]

Let me show my ignorance. When was the K 31 produced and what wars did it fight in??
When you'all state a Swiss or Swede 91,93 etc.. I assume you mean a Mauser of that year/model made in Sveden?? What caliber are the K31's in...7.5 Swiss?? It seems a pretty popular choice.

[mike in co]

Let me show my ignorance. When was the K 31 produced and what wars did it fight in??
When you'all state a Swiss or Swede 91,93 etc.. I assume you mean a Mauser of that year/model made in Sveden?? What caliber are the K31's in...7.5 Swiss?? It seems a pretty popular choice.


the swiss eat enough chocolate and build such nice time peices, they know it is never time to get in someone elses war.....lots of target practice, no shot fired in anger

swiss k-31 is not a mauser. it is a product of the swiss firearms association...you know it as...SIG.

30' something thru mid 50's, replaced by the '58 if i recall(stg58).


mike in co

[35 Whelen]

35 Whelen, what aperture sight do you have on that K-31 and where did you get it? There are some nice setups out there but they are 3 times what I paid for the rifle.

Bob

It's a Lyman 48 for an FN Mauser. I just had to turn everything around as it was designed to be mounted on the right side of a receiver. I suspect lots of sights would mount on the K-31 because I've found that most bolt action receivers have very similar contours. If you decide to try this, be warned: make sure you have a VERY sharp drill bit. My K-31 receiver was like drilling granite.
35W

[Boz330]

It's a Lyman 48 for an FN Mauser. I just had to turn everything around as it was designed to be mounted on the right side of a receiver. I suspect lots of sights would mount on the K-31 because I've found that most bolt action receivers have very similar contours. If you decide to try this, be warned: make sure you have a VERY sharp drill bit. My K-31 receiver was like drilling granite.
35W

Thankyou Sir, I was hoping it was something that used existing holes. Brownells has a sight that doesn't require D&T the receiver. Just trying to keep the cost down a little though. My eyes don't seem to like the original sights anymore.

Bob