Seeking wisdom

[Tim336]

Good Morning From Australia
This is my first venture into cast bullets, I hav a company Im happy with and have a few questions for the group as I'm truly a beginner when reloading cast bullets. I use two Marlin's with 24" & 16.5 micro groove BBL's, is there and train of thought about cast lead in micro groove BBL's Re: fowling, cleaning or depletion of accuracy

this is the company I'm going through (https://blackwidowprojectiles.com.au/) and the below information in on their web site,

We're an established manufacturer of top quality, competition grade projectiles for target, pistol and rifle shooting specializing in Hard Cast. We've been in production for over 5 years, being a small family run business, who take great pride in our products.

We use only virgin lead alloy for our Hard Cast projectiles, which are coated with Hi-Tek coating. This coating is guaranteed by the manufacturer at up to 3000 fps. With this coating you can put the projectiles through the smash test, by placing the projectile onto a hard surface and smashing it with a hammer; you'll find that the coating doesn't peel, crack or flake off.

I have attached a picture of the possible projectile I'm looking at, the 165gn RNFP longer so more stable /accurate CORRECT ????. The company has told me they can size to 309 for the 32-20 115gn round as well any thoughts on the smaller lighter bullet.

Gas Checks GC's do I or don't I need them on coated hard cast bullets and if i do go with RNFP where is the seating position. So, any and all wisdom is appreciated for this beginner from Down Under.

Tim

[Txcowboy52]

I don’t use gas checks on any projectiles that I powder coat. From what I’ve read and been told over sized cast bullets seem to work better in micro groove barrels. Some people believe this and some don’t, my advice is to try different sizes in your particular firearm and see what works best. Good luck to you and welcome from the lone star state !

[JimB..]

Isn’t the nominal diameter for 32-20 .312”? .309 is awfully small, but slug your barrel to confirm and then add one or two thou to get a bullet diameter.

A longer bullet is less stable than a shorter bullet, all other things being equal. For a longer bullet you need it spinning faster, which is why, for example if you were shooting a 40gr .223 you’d be fine with 1:12 twist, but if you’re shooting 77gr .223 you’d want 1:8 or 1:7.

Good luck, and welcome

[BLAHUT]

I went back to what the old guys did with black powder for a very long time, big pure lead ( soft ) bullets at about 1200 FPS in all of my old guns, a tad over size, pumps up at firing, carries lots of lube, shows great accuracy, out beyond 1000 yds. has great knockdown power for hunting, I do not use gas checks, I use magnum primers in all my guns, modern or old timey. Just need to find what the gun likes ??

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Tim,
You don't say what cartridge you are loading for?
I'm up in Queensland and have a lot of moulds that may help you out!

[Bigslug]

I'm guessing one of your rifles is a .30-30, based on your mention of the 165gr RNFP? Pretty much a textbook .30-30 slug by your photo - probably even designed for that round. Seating position should be the forward groove at the front edge of your case mouth, using a slight roll crimp (Lee Factory Crimp Die possibly easiest) into that groove to prevent bullet setback from banging around in your tubular magazine. That bullet will stabilize in either of the twist rates a .30-30 is likely to be - 1-10" or 1-12".

I don't powder coat, so can't help you there. I would prefer a gas check in .30-30 if running above 1600fps as an aid to bore grip and accuracy, even if sealing is no longer a concern with their coating, but since they aren't saying what hardness they're casting to, even the necessity of that is not a sure thing. Do some load workups and see where/if the groups fall apart.

Their .313" bullets should be the right diameter for .32-20. There should be very little mystery to getting that one to shoot.

[405grain]

Tim336; You didn't say what model of Marlin you're using, but because of your avatar I assume that it's a 336. From the bullets in the photo you posted I noticed that two of them are spitzer types. You should not use pointed bullets in firearms that have a tubular magazine. The tip of the bullet will be resting on the primer of the cartridge ahead of it. When the gun fires it could cause the rounds in the magazine to detonate. Some folks might say "Its probably OK, those are cast bullets". Those people aren't going to be holding your gun if something goes wrong. Usually cast bullet manufactures that sell their product make them pretty hard so they won't get dented or damaged in shipment. Add some powder coating to this to give that bullet a nice "kinda hard" surface, and it creates the very real potential for trouble. For safety you should only use flat point or round nose bullets in guns with a tubular magazine.

[Land Owner]

^^^What he said^^^
with two exceptions...the first and the last rounds.

E1.) The round in the CHAMBER may be a pointed boolit (spitzer).
Every round in the magazine should be a truncated cone or round-nosed boolit, except,
E2.) the first round in the magazine, WITH NO ROUND IN FRONT OF IT, which may be a pointed boolit (spitzer).

It will take thinking on your part NOT TO GET THESE POSITIONS WRONG. The first and the last rounds MAY be spitzers.

OR

Load ONLY two (2) rounds, one in the chamber and one in the magazine, both of which may be spitzers.


This is the 30-30 (and tubular magazine) heresy of "other than conventional wisdom"...

[Tim336]

Ok further to my last post.
So I slugged my BBL and came up with 305-307 do I leave the factory cast bullets @ 309 or do I get them sized to fit. You blokes are fantastic with all your information
No gas checks, got it

Ok Ive settled on these bullets below, I use RCBS die's, can I still seat and crimp in the one action and I take it the crimp will go in the lube ring Yes / No

And yes I only use Marlin's in 30-30 it's just my gig I love'm

[Tim336]

Mate i'm on the sunny coast at Caloundra, would love to pick your brain on this

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Mate i'm on the sunny coast at Caloundra, would love to pick your brain on this

On a farm just east of Kingaroy where you can shoot rabbits off the front veranda. Worth a visit to the man cave!

I have over 100 molds and 20,000 cast and powder coated boolits!

https://i.imgur.com/ITMc7iph.jpg

[frankmissing]

Ok further to my last post.
So I slugged my BBL and came up with 305-307 do I leave the factory cast bullets @ 309 or do I get them sized to fit. You blokes are fantastic with all your information No gas checks, got it here (https://celebshistory.com) ok Ive settled on these bullets below, I use RCBS die's, can I still seat and crimp in the one action and I take it the crimp will go in the lube ring Yes / No And yes I only use Marlin's in 30-30 it's just my gig I love'm

And I personally would check everything myself, conduct tests and choose the best sample and approach! Someone else’s experience is very useful, but personal tests sometimes reveal a lot of interesting things!

[Super Sneaky Steve]

The best way to figure out how to seat your boolits is with an OAL gauge and a modified case.
https://www.hornady.com/modified-cases#!/

Because you're using oddly shaped boolits with an unknown thickness of hiteck on it the only way to really know how far you're jumping is to measure.

[canyon-ghost]

I loaded for TC Contender handguns in 32-20. The lube groove is usually inside the case neck. Trial and error will tell you how long your chamber is for the cartridge, had a Winchester rifle to load 32-20 for. It was considerably shorter than my TCs. The dies last act after seating the bullet will crimp it in place. For rifle, I used roll-crimp dies,as opposed to my taper-crimp dies for the TCs. Hard cast or wheelweight is a good choice on your part.
My favorite bullet mold ended up being a 98 grain RCBS. I tried the 105 grain mold too. I just got a tighter group at 100 meters with the 98 grain mold.
Because the brass shells seem to get more brittle with age ( the more you work them, the harder they get), I'd buy 500 round lots of new brass and at the first sign of splitting or case head separation, I would just discard the entire lot.

Good Luck,
Ron

[Wayne Smith]

Ron, keep your brass and learn to anneal it. Multiple methods have been discussed here and it's not hard.

[canyon-ghost]

A person might anneal them but, I shot the 32-20 for almost 15 years and didn't want to deal with the ultra-thin cases. If they don't split at the top of the neck then, they separate the web and base ( case head separation). Brass was cheaper than spending a lot of time on it.
Ron