My continuing education on air conditioners,,,,

[Winger Ed.]

Having had two life long friends that were HVAC types, I never had to learn much about air conditioners.
I do keep spare blower/fan motors for them that I can change,
and I know how keep the coils clean, but that's about it.

Here, we have a big one for the house, a smaller one as sort of a booster since the 'big' one
isn't really big enough when it gets over about 100.

And a small one for the shop.
It eats start/run capacitors. I had a problem with the outside fan not running awhile back.
So I checked in with Professor youtube. With his recommendation,
I changed the capacitor ($22. on Amazon) and that fixed it.
And that lasted a year or so until it ate the new one. I changed it again- problem solved at least until
I get around to putting a fresh motor on it.

Ahhh, here's where my education expanded!
Little did I realize, that single capacitor also serves to start the compressor motor.

Well, the 'big' unit konked out the other day.
The fan came on, but not the compressor. That was over my head so I called the AC guys.
These weren't life long friends,,,,,, so their emergency service call came at full retail prices.

I learned a service call is $125. and that gets ya a good unit inspection and to diagnose your problem.
To fix it--- by changing the big capacitor under the access panel is another $235.

Lesson learned.
Now I have two new, $22.oo spare capacitors on the shelf in the shop to try before I call for help.


And,,,,,, another service tech. that won't let me watch them work.:bigsmyl2:
I've had more than one tell me, "After you see this, you'll do all the next ones yourself".

[CastingFool]

The same thing happened to my daughter's a/c. Fortunately, I happened to have the correct dual cap on my shelf. Had to clean the coils, too. They were filthy, and I had to put in about pound of refrigerant, too

[MUSTANG]

Winger - You got a deal. This spring - Heat Pump not working in AC Mode. Call and after 14 companies/private individuals get someone who "Can Come out in two weeks". Ohhhhhh the freon is all gone from the unit. $1,200 for service call; Freon fill, and "Stop Leak".

5 Weeks later: - NO AC again. Call 18 companies/private individuals. Best was "I'll get there in three weeks". Struck gold with the individual because he could actually diagnose and repair. He identified where the Freon was leaking from one of the "Cans" in the unit. Ordered a replacement and soldered it into the unit 4 days later. $850.00 bill for initial visit; diagnosis, replacement parts, freon added to system.

His card is taped to the side of the fridge - finding someone who can diagnose and repair seems to be unheard of these days. Most simply want to "Sell you a new Unit" if the warranty has expired. And this persons price was reasonable in my mind for the work he performed. National companies seem to be the worst for ripping off the Home Owner from what I see.

[farmbif]

its been so humid chunks of ice pop out of my window unit. still blows cold though. $199 ten years ago still cools the place down. never expected too last this long and have one like it still in box bought 5 years ago.you could say I like my ac when go inside and its hot and humid out. about 5 hours spent outside and every piece of exposed skin bares scars from every kind of biting insect you can think of

[Finster101]

Winger, you scare me with titles like that. They are a little too close to "hold my beer and watch this".

[Winger Ed.]

Winger, you scare me with titles like that. They are a little too close to "hold my beer and watch this".

There's a trick to sticking your hands in there with all that electrical stuff, and them 'trons swimming around.
Do it before ya have your first drink of the day, go slow & careful, and be sure to shut off the power.

[Winger Ed.]

finding someone who can diagnose and repair seems to be unheard of these days.


Wow.
Sir: If I lived as far out in the vast unexplored regions of 'Not Texas' as you do---
I'd probably go to a HVAC school just to save myself from such occasions.

Living in the comfort of air conditioning is what separates us from the heathens and savages.:bigsmyl2:

National services companies are out with me too.
One AC buddy passed away, and the other moved away years ago.
So I called one-- what a rip. The compressor on our 5 ton unit went out,
and it's about a $5,000. job to replace one that size and make the old one disappear.
Anyway-The sales guy rattled off a few other 'problems' and said the only real fix was a new $15,000. system.

[Finster101]

I would have quoted one of my old first sergeants and told the salesman he was "smokin' dope and eatin' dog food"!

[farmbif]

repair are usually not that tough, as long as you dont have to open the system and vacuum and recharge the freon.
eds repairman is about like my mothers water heater repair. guy came out, his office is maybe mile and half away, in 1 minute hearing the loud squeal from the oil burner left and said the office would call with an estimate. $120 service call. if she wanted them to fix it an additional $260. did a bit of googling with the manufacturer name And part number on the motor. $47.95 from Home Depot delivered free to local store. picked up the new motor 3 days later. it took a screwdriver and 2 wrenches and changed the part in less than 5 minutes. many things these days are made so that the parts can be changed out quick east and cheap

[CastingFool]

I had to order a replacement fan motor for our furnace. Used the p/n from owner's part manual. When I started to install it, I could see it was different than the motor I pulled off. Contacted the supplier, and the guy was really sharp. He said the manufacturer would sometimes use a slightly different motor, and they happened to have it in stock, and it was $40 cheaper. I had to go online to order it, but I had to order it before 5 pm. I ordered it, and it was at my house, the very next day, before noon!

[tinsnips]

I have been a HVAC and plumbing repairman for 45 years . For many years capacitors never went bad it was very rare now they are junk an i only buy top off the line hoping to get longer service . Some emc furnace blower motors can cost 700.00 to 800.00 hundred dollars wholesale cost how do you justify that to a customer. In the old days universal parts would work on most furnaces not any more. Fixed a commercial ice machine the other day the water pump cost 700.00 my cost can you say rip off. Quick tip on ac service keep the condensor [outside unit] clean it will help more than you know. Dont forget to change the furnace filter most people forget.

[Bmi48219]

We learned about capacitors when our year old, still under warranty pool heater quit working. It cost me $165.00 up front to replace but the manufacturer reimbursed us. The repair guy was pretty informative so when the same problem occurred a year later, (and the parts were still under warranty but not labor) I removed the capacitor and took it to a local electric motor repair shop for testing. The owner said most new ones now came from China. Forty bucks later our heater was up and running. The pool heater manufacturer mailed me a replacement so I had a spare.
Over nine years we replaced three capacitors on that pool heater, then the titanium heater exchanger (that had a ten year warranty) blew. Lucked out getting a new replacement heater that I installed myself for the $330.00 cost of shipping. Wound up replacing a few for our twenty-two year old A/C unit too along with a contact set.

That electric shop repair guy I mentioned said most times the cause of failure is a power surge. We get a lot of surges. Like when the power goes out momentarily and comes back on before the Freon pressure equalizes in the compressor. Now, when the lights start flickering I turn the A/C off. Don’t know if it really helps but seems to.
I’ve watched several neighbors replace their entire A/C systems, some only a few years old. I’m pretty sure most of them were the result of capacitor failures and unscrupulous repairmen.
Ed’s right about a ‘continuing education’. At least for those who learn by experience.

[Winger Ed.]

Now, when the lights start flickering I turn the A/C off. Don’t know if it really helps but seems to.

I'd encourage that.
I do the same with a electronic controlled Kitchen Aid oven.
When we have a power surge, it goes all stupid and has to be reset.

When I first built the house in the city, we installed a 5 ton system.
Hooking it up and watching it run a little while, it shut off.
A minute or two later it came back on.

By buddy watched that, and said, "I don't like that".
The head pressure hasn't relieved long enough before it can let itself come back on".

I figure the head pressure relieves like when a air compressor shuts off and goes, 'shhhh'.

He grabbed a little 5 minute delay thing and wired it in.
Never had a problem with it short cycling after that.

[popper]

There is a company that says made in US caps (Fl). IIRC they bought the old Mallory plant. All A/C motors use a start/run cap set. Now they sell hot start caps, to give and extra 'boost' to start when line is low voltage.

[Bmi48219]

…..Now they sell hot start caps, to give and extra 'boost' to start when line is low voltage.

I’ve seen the ‘hot start’ capacitors and also and add-on item that boosts start power. In fact the guy that owns the motor repair shop recommended it to me. I am leery about adding components to a system I really don’t fully understand. Also I assume any such addition could be a reason to void the warranty.
Installing a surge protector would be another preventative option. I believe most of them offer some warranty on units so protected. They also are only good for a certain life span. Who knows how hard it would be to get them to backup their protection warranty.
When the titanium heat exchanger blew in our pool heater I had to get a licensed A/C guy to inspect and certify that was indeed what failed.
At least once a month our electric supplier (FPL) mails an offer for optional surge protection coverage. Depending on what appliances / systems you select to cover the price varies from $12 to $24 per month. I find it humorous they want you to pay to protect your equipment from damages caused by their inability to properly regulate the power they sell you. I can only imagine what hoops an insured would have to jump through to collect for damage to covered units.
Through a sub-vendor they also send a monthly mail offer for insurance covering failures to underground utilities (water and electric) between the respective meters and your home.

[.429&H110]

When Nicola Tesla was in high school, he asked the instructor what the purpose of the commutator was, Tesla didn't see why it was necessary. The instructor told Tesla to do the lesson again, of course an (DC) electric motor must have a commutator. Tesla saw the current could rotate and a polyphase motor would just start and spin. No arcing sparking brush wearing commutator at all, unless you really wanted one. Now he needed to start an AC motor with just one phase, so Tesla found eleven combinations of relays windings and capacitors that we take very much for granted. We recently replaced the 19th century tech with solid-state-started brushless DC motors. If you shop modern air conditioners you will find soft start variable speed compressors. You can limit the inrush so you can run an A/C off a small(ish) generator.
But you still have to have a rotating magnetic field to spin the motor.

Nowadays we need that same teenage Tesla, get his mind off beer and women,
get him into a real school, and before dinner we would have nuclear fusion.

[MrWolf]

I have been a HVAC and plumbing repairman for 45 years . For many years capacitors never went bad it was very rare now they are junk an i only buy top off the line hoping to get longer service . Some emc furnace blower motors can cost 700.00 to 800.00 hundred dollars wholesale cost how do you justify that to a customer. In the old days universal parts would work on most furnaces not any more. Fixed a commercial ice machine the other day the water pump cost 700.00 my cost can you say rip off. Quick tip on ac service keep the condensor [outside unit] clean it will help more than you know. Dont forget to change the furnace filter most people forget.

When I finally got a knowledgeable hvac guy, he diagnosed the issue with the new furnace (whole lotta fun with original install) as being right size but wrong configuration for my double wide. Said to order the cheaper filters for air flow but change them every 3-4 weeks. I got the ones he recommended and the company even sends me a reminder every 30 days to change it. I figured out from his observations that the real culprit was an addition done that wasn't properly ducted. Use a portable A/C unit and a heater for the room till I can install a mini split system.

[popper]

AC surge suppressors are the newest gimmick add-on. They are really a spike killer and can't take very many 'burns' before they are no good. Somebody tried to sell them (70s IIRC) as efficiency devices for home wiring. Kill the spikes and the meter reads less. Laughed when Mom wanted to drop a couple K$ on one.