Total Nubie: want to cast 200 gr Keith style bullets.

[sarge912]

Hello:
I am brand new to casting bullets but not to general reloading.
I ran across a Lee Electric Pot with several molds at a garage sale, but not the one I want to cast.

I would like to cast a 200 grain, Keith style bullet. (feel free to suggest any other style that you recommend for target shooting.)
This will be primarily for my Rossi Brawler but I also have a Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt.

Here are my initial questions.
Which mold would you recommend? I would be happy doing 2 at a time but 6 would work as well.

Which sizer. 452?
Powder or no powder coat?
Do I need a gas check?
I have a lot of Titegroup powder but what else for this style/size bullet.
I am not looking for maximum performance, just punching holes in paper.

Thanks in advance.

[BLAHUT]

You have all you need to learn; So melt some lead and start casting ? Then worry about what you want to shoot ?

[sarge912]

You have all you need to learn; So melt some lead and start casting ? Then worry about what you want to shoot ?

I plan on starting simple. I am ordering a ingot mold as I have about 25-30 pounds of lead that came with the pot. The pot is full to the top with lead at this time.

[mehavey]

Which mold would you recommend? RCBS MOULD 45-270-SAA 2-CAVITY
Which sizer. 452? Lee push-through 452
Powder or no powder coat? Start with simple ALOX See: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6682694&postcount=6
Do I need a gas check? No
I have a lot of Titegroup powder but what else for this style/size bullet. TiteGroup's Fine See: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6924226&postcount=36

[sarge912]

Which mold would you recommend? RCBS MOULD 45-270-SAA 2-CAVITY
Which sizer. 452? Lee push-through 452
Powder or no powder coat? Start with simple ALOX See: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6682694&postcount=6
Do I need a gas check? No
I have a lot of Titegroup powder but what else for this style/size bullet. TiteGroup's Fine See: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6924226&postcount=36

Very helpful, thank you.

[wv109323]

Unless you have a 20 pound pot ,I would recommend you stay with a 2 cavity mold. With a small pot and a six cavity mold you use the heated lead quickly and have to wait for the added lead to come up to casting temperature. The mold cools off while the lead is being brought to temp.

[sarge912]

Unless you have a 20 pound pot ,I would recommend you stay with a 2 cavity mold. With a small pot and a six cavity mold you use the heated lead quickly and have to wait for the added lead to come up to casting temperature. The mold cools off while the lead is being brought to temp.

It is a 20 pound pot but I went with the 2 cavity anyway. thanks

[Thumbcocker]

Keep us posted on your progress.

[sarge912]

will do

[mdi]

I've heard (read) it said "the only way to learn how to cast bullets, is to cast bullets.". So practice, practice, practice. (when I started casting it was a good session when I got 50%-60% keepers and that steadily grew as I went on.

There is a ton and a half of good info right here and questions are happily answered. There are the classic texts like "From Ingot to Target" by Fryxell/Applegate http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm. Of course the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Bullet-Handbook-Multiple-Model/dp/B004DWBKQY?th=1&psc=1. And if you type in "bullet casting texts" on a search engine you will get many hits.

Common sense is at the top of the list for casting and safety. Pain hurts and melted lead is hot. You will get many, many suggestions on casting safety so try to eliminate the "Chicken Little" types and use common sense. Don't be afraid to ask questions here. Just about any possible question has been seen here and happily/accurately answered.

I have maybe 16 molds, (which ain't many compared to the long time caster here!) and the majority are two cavity. I have never needed to cast 400 bullets in a setting as I enjoy casting and stop when it gets tiresome. One cool thing about casting is you can easily remelt your mistakes/culls and only you know your faux pas.

I would suggest you hold off on powder coating and get good consistent bullets first. No need to add to the learning curve. Casting adds a whole new world to our shooting/reloading hobbies and I have learned a lot. One even gets to know a lot about their guns by casting and processing bullets for a specific gun.

My "suggestions" are; Go slow. Double check everything. Use common sense and be safe. Most of all, have fun!

[Land Owner]

Cast boolit "fit" is King. Slug your chamber throats, barrels, and revolver cylinders. Hone cylinders diameters that are too small. Cast/size to ~0.002" maximum over barrel diameter. This alone will reduce a great deal of leading.

Your wish, "...200 grain, Keith style bullet..." could be achieved with a Lyman 180 gr. Devastator mold (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010243148?pid=670333) (there may be cheaper alternatives and used molds of this type). Not the easiest to pour, but patience and persistence achieves the goal.

[sarge912]

I've heard (read) it said "the only way to learn how to cast bullets, is to cast bullets.". So practice, practice, practice. (when I started casting it was a good session when I got 50%-60% keepers and that steadily grew as I went on.

There is a ton and a half of good info right here and questions are happily answered. There are the classic texts like "From Ingot to Target" by Fryxell/Applegate http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm. Of course the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Bullet-Handbook-Multiple-Model/dp/B004DWBKQY?th=1&psc=1. And if you type in "bullet casting texts" on a search engine you will get many hits.

Common sense is at the top of the list for casting and safety. Pain hurts and melted lead is hot. You will get many, many suggestions on casting safety so try to eliminate the "Chicken Little" types and use common sense. Don't be afraid to ask questions here. Just about any possible question has been seen here and happily/accurately answered.

I have maybe 16 molds, (which ain't many compared to the long time caster here!) and the majority are two cavity. I have never needed to cast 400 bullets in a setting as I enjoy casting and stop when it gets tiresome. One cool thing about casting is you can easily remelt your mistakes/culls and only you know your faux pas.

I would suggest you hold off on powder coating and get good consistent bullets first. No need to add to the learning curve. Casting adds a whole new world to our shooting/reloading hobbies and I have learned a lot. One even gets to know a lot about their guns by casting and processing bullets for a specific gun.

My "suggestions" are; Go slow. Double check everything. Use common sense and be safe. Most of all, have fun!
Thank you, good advice for everything in life. Practice + feedback= learning. It never hurts, however, to obtain the wisdom of others. IMHO

[sarge912]

Cast boolit "fit" is King. Slug your chamber throats, barrels, and revolver cylinders. Hone cylinders diameters that are too small. Cast/size to ~0.002" maximum over barrel diameter. This alone will reduce a great deal of leading.

Your wish, "...200 grain, Keith style bullet..." could be achieved with a Lyman 180 gr. Devastator mold (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010243148?pid=670333) (there may be cheaper alternatives and used molds of this type). Not the easiest to pour, but patience and persistence achieves the goal.
Thank you

[hc18flyer]

There is a Handloader Mag article that features the 45-270 SAA bullet and .45 Colt loads using it. If you PM me your e-mail, I will send it to you? hc18flyer

[sarge912]

There is a Handloader Mag article that features the 45-270 SAA bullet and .45 Colt loads using it. If you PM me your e-mail, I will send it to you? hc18flyer

sent, thanks

[LAH]

The 45-270-SAA.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/h244/Creekerpics/Loading%20Room%20101/Bullets/45-290-K/.highres/45-293-K-2-A.jpg

[lar45]

Hi Sarge, you'll probably want 2 sizers for your 45 cal bullets. A .452 for the Redhawk and a .454" for the Rossi brawler.
Either that or just shoot the bullets as cast if they are fat enough for the Brawler.
I did a chamber cast of mine and I think the groove measured .4535".
I tried some light loads with 700X and a 235 RF that had been powder coated and shot a pretty decent target at 25 yds.
http://www.lsstuff.com/pics/brawler/brawler-01.jpg

http://www.lsstuff.com/pics/brawler/brawler-02.jpg

The rifling is slow at 1:24", so a shorter lighter bullet is probably the way to go. Your 200SWC should be fine. I tried some 275s and they tumbled, also tried a hollow base Minnie with mediocre results.

[gpidaho]

sarge912: The Lee 452-255-RF is a bullet I use a lot in my 45 Colts. It's available very inexpensively in 2 or 6 cavity. And I do powder coat all my handgun bullets. For target loads, I've burned a lot of TiteGroup. I'm using Hp-38 now as I bought an eight pound jug. Good shooting! Gp

[sarge912]

Hi Sarge, you'll probably want 2 sizers for your 45 cal bullets. A .452 for the Redhawk and a .454" for the Rossi brawler.
Either that or just shoot the bullets as cast if they are fat enough for the Brawler.
I did a chamber cast of mine and I think the groove measured .4535".
I tried some light loads with 700X and a 235 RF that had been powder coated and shot a pretty decent target at 25 yds.
http://www.lsstuff.com/pics/brawler/brawler-01.jpg

http://www.lsstuff.com/pics/brawler/brawler-02.jpg

The rifling is slow at 1:24", so a shorter lighter bullet is probably the way to go. Your 200SWC should be fine. I tried some 275s and they tumbled, also tried a hollow base Minnie with mediocre results.

Thanks

[sarge912]

Hi Sarge, you'll probably want 2 sizers for your 45 cal bullets. A .452 for the Redhawk and a .454" for the Rossi brawler.
Either that or just shoot the bullets as cast if they are fat enough for the Brawler.
I did a chamber cast of mine and I think the groove measured .4535".
I tried some light loads with 700X and a 235 RF that had been powder coated and shot a pretty decent target at 25 yds.
http://www.lsstuff.com/pics/brawler/brawler-01.jpg

http://www.lsstuff.com/pics/brawler/brawler-02.jpg

The rifling is slow at 1:24", so a shorter lighter bullet is probably the way to go. Your 200SWC should be fine. I tried some 275s and they tumbled, also tried a hollow base Minnie with mediocre results.

great info, thanks

[sarge912]

sarge912: The Lee 452-255-RF is a bullet I use a lot in my 45 Colts. It's available very inexpensively in 2 or 6 cavity. And I do powder coat all my handgun bullets. For target loads, I've burned a lot of TiteGroup. I'm using Hp-38 now as I bought an eight pound jug. Good shooting! Gp
Thanks

[LAH]

sarge912: The Lee 452-255-RF is a bullet I use a lot in my 45 Colts. Gp

That's a good bullet.

[Three44s]

OK, I want to warn you to avoid the "Tinsel Fairy! It is a very uncountable experience!

You want to be very careful when adding cool objects into a pool of hot lead as you risk getting steam explosions.

Those explosions can lift considerable quantities of molten lead out of your lead pot and "adorn" you and the surroundings with hot lead "tinsel"!

The rule is anything you care to add to your molten lead needs to be preheated. More lead, your stirring spoon are big culprits. Your fluxing agent needs to lose any trapped moisture before you submerge it (preheat by floating on the surface for a while).

A less obvious item is ingot molds since you are adding the lead to them but they make excellent Tinsel launchers as well if not preheated as well.

Be safe and wear appropriate clothing as a final defense to injury.

Three44s

[murf205]

That's a good bullet.

What LAH said. My son had a 45 Ruger and we ALMOST gave up on it until I tried this boolit. It should work in a 1:24" twist barrel. Stick with 2 cavity molds until you feel comfortable and don't hesitate to ask questions. This is a very heplful group of people.

[FredBuddy]

Sarge:

I'm in Eastern Knox County. If that's
near enough to be of assistance, let
me know.

[LenH]

Sarge I was always partial to the old 454-255 Keith style bullet.

Landowner beat me to it but FIT IS KING ALL ELSE IS SECONDARY.

When I started casting someti.e in the late 70s, I started with a 4# Lee pot and a Lyman ladle and a 2 cavity an a bucket of wheel weights. It was tedious but it kept me shooting.

[murf205]

"Landowner beat me to it but FIT IS KING ALL ELSE IS SECONDARY." Ok Larry, your up. LOL

[35 Rem]

This has nothing directly to do with casting but safety equipment is very important with this hobby. Especially taking care of your eyes. I used goggles for years but they are sometimes terrible about fogging up and then you can't see which in itself is dangerous. These face shields are what I've been using for several years now. They cover your entire face and let air circulate freely. I'd recommend not casting at all until you get one. Lead splatters are inevitable so make sure your face is protected.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bison-Life-Blue-Safety-Headgear-with-Clear-Polycarbonate-Face-Shield-Replaceable-sweatband-Ratchet-suspension-1-Pack-BIS-HGF-18-1/301394049

[sarge912]

Sarge:

I'm in Eastern Knox County. If that's
near enough to be of assistance, let
me know.

Thank for the offer, I'm near Lake Erie so it would be a long drive.
I have a couple of friends that have already cast bullets and other things like fishing lures. (which I may try as well)
One of my sons is going to come over and learn with me as well.
Thank you everyone for all of your advice.
I hope to start this week.
I did pick up a respirator for lead. I will be doing it on my porch with a good fan. Leather gloves and a shop coat.
I'm going to start with turning the lead in the pot into ingots. I also have several pounds of plumping lead from an old sink drain.
Thanks again.

[Land Owner]

Chugging away turning components into ingots with a 20# pot is a fast way to wear out the 20# pot. If you are not already thinking "bulk" this may be a good time to start.

Get:
the bottom one-half of a steel propane tank (holds 100#'s)
steel molds (6 to 8) that deliver individual ~3# ingots
propane turkey fryer
propane
heavy lifting and safety equipment

Melt:
COWW & lead, as components, in batches of 100#'s
Pour the batch into 3# ingots

Later, in the 20# pot:
melt the 3# ingots
add Tin to suit prior to pouring boolit molds with the alloy.

https://i.postimg.cc/7ZdnfqYK/Lead-Melting-Pot-image-1-200x150.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/tCgQpNc9/Metamorphasis_[200x150].jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/pVq4GnL4/IMG_1466_[200x150].jpg

No goblets were hurt in the making of these ingots of Tin (my spouse stayed their execution) though other sources of "dinged" pewter and Tin were eliminated.

[405grain]

sarge912: There are a thousand different interesting things to learn about casting bullets. Once you start you'll quickly improve and begin making better and better bullets. You'll get lots of encouragement and advise on this site. There are always safety concerns when working with molten alloy; wear gloves, have good ventilation, etc., but there's one really important safety thing that many people that are just starting out don't know about: the dreaded "tinsel fairy". I want to add to Three44s warning.

This is something that is easily avoided, but is also very unforgiving if casters become careless. Steam expands to 600 times the volume of water. A drip of sweat or a drop of water falling on top of a pot of molten lead is no big deal as it will just sizzle and turn to steam. But, if that same drop of water is submerged inside that volume of molten lead, the steam will build up pressure and can cause lead to violently spray out of the pot (and on to you). One of the ways that this can happen to an unsuspecting caster is for them to put a cold piece of metal into a pot of molten alloy. (I'm not talking room temperature, I mean cold) When you take a cold piece of metal and heat it moisture from the atmosphere will condense on it's surface. If you just dunk that cold ingot of alloy or cold stirring spoon into the pot, that moisture could condense, then flash into steam, and then cause the alloy in your pot to fly everywhere.

Learn from our mistakes. If you want to add ingots to the mix, set them on the top edge of the pot for a minute or two before putting them in the pot so they'll warm up. They don't have to be hot, but just warm enough that moisture won't form when they go into the alloy. Same with mixing spoons, skimmers, or rods. They don't have to be really hot, just warm. If something is wet - do not stick it in the alloy!!! A wooden paint stirrer is fine, a wet paint stirrer is not. Returning the cut off sprue's to the pot is OK because they are already warm. Be safe and learn as you go. Now that you've been told about this "tinsel fairy" thing, you can easily avoid it.

[sarge912]

318135
So, finally got to cast my first ingots.
Things I learned so far:
*the pot seems to work great.
*I'm glad I knew that the wax might catch on fire when I fluxed the pot. It did.
*I needed to set up a cooling station for the mold and check that it is completely level on both axis.
* a ladle full of lead is a lot heavier than a ladle full of stew :)
* Gloves are important anywhere near the pot, lead or molds. Doh! The swelling is already down.
*It great to have you folks available to answer questions. Even for question I didn't know I had.

Hopefully I will get to actually molding a couple of boolits soon. :)

[sarge912]

And a new question:
How full do you keep your pot. Mine was almost full when I got it from the garage sale.
I was thinking I would keep it at about 1/3 full so start up would be quicker.

[mehavey]

I would keep it at least 3/4 full.....

[sarge912]

I would keep it at least 3/4 full.....

Okay, what is the advantage? It sure makes it a lot heavier to set up. (I'm in my 70's)

[mehavey]

I'm probably older than you...[smilie=s: [smilie=w:

But a 3/4(+) full pot means
- No adding lead on start-up. Simply flip the switch/walk away
- Heat-up/mould on hot plate/dutch oven same time
- 20 minutes later cast 1st bullet/keeper from the start.
- No/very little dross because the lead's already clean from last session fill.
- Stable temp throughout session as you keep a high/steady thermal mass
https://i.postimg.cc/5Nx9vznG/LeadPot2.jpg

A little messy, but I'm running/switching all the time between dedicated pots for #2, 30-1, and pure lead.
Pick each pot up from floor-to-table when changing alloys. Never thought about lesser weight.
(Tonight was Paul Jones 540s)

Dutch oven mould heating up same time as lead:
https://s15.postimg.cc/n7t2rmxtn/Hotplate.jpg

I like to keep things as short/simple/no-brainer as possible.
Leaves time remember what I had for breakfast
... and where the Oval Office is down the hall.
:veryconfu

[sarge912]

I'm probably older than you...[smilie=s: [smilie=w:

But a 3/4(+) full pot means
- No adding lead on start-up. Simply flip the switch/walk away
- Heat-up/mould on hot plate/dutch oven same time
- 20 minutes later cast 1st bullet/keeper from the start.
- No/very little dross because the lead's already clean from last session fill.
- Stable temp throughout session as you keep a high/steady thermal mass
https://i.postimg.cc/5Nx9vznG/LeadPot2.jpg

A little messy, but I'm running/switching all the time between dedicated pots for #2, 30-1, and pure lead.
Pick each pot up from floor-to-table when changing alloys. Never thought about lesser weight.
(Tonight was Paul Jones 540s)

Dutch oven mould heating up same time as lead:
https://s15.postimg.cc/n7t2rmxtn/Hotplate.jpg

I like to keep things as short/simple/no-brainer as possible.
Leaves time remember what I had for breakfast
... and where the Oval Office is down the hall.
:veryconfu
Good points, thanks for the input.