What forum for custom rifle value?

[Idaho45guy]

Trying to figure out a value for one of my rifles and not sure what forum is appropriate. Obviously not this one. But maybe it can be moved to the appropriate one??

The rifle is a pre-`64 Winchester Model 70 in .25-06 that was built by a gunsmith named Jim Zahm. He apparently made a lot of very nice stocks, but not many complete rifles.

He and my dad were friends and he built a few rifles for him over the years. This was the last one left. Jim Zahm was a Marine and testified to the Warren Commission...

https://www.wallowa.com/opinion/first-person-jim-zahm-exemplified-marine-corps-motto/article_cc6c737e-6332-509b-9389-5c96f285f545.html

The rifle is beautiful and has an interesting history, so was hoping to figure out a value as I need to add it to my insurance rider. I did a search on the internet and can't find any reference to a Jim Zahm rifle being sold. As a nice custom Model 70, I figured it's worth around $2500. But maybe since it's a rare Jim Zahm rifle, it might be worth more?

I have a very similar rifle made by Al Biesen and it's worth around $7k. So maybe this rifle would be somewhere in the middle? $4k? $5k?

It is pretty...

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[WILCO]

I'd go with your hunch of somewhere in the middle.
Any articles of providence will aid in value too.
Congratulations on owning a great rifle.
Thanks for the background history of it.

[Larry Gibson]

Can't help with the value of that very nice looking rifle but I did know Jim Zahm. I lived in LaGrande at the time and would frequent Wallow County. Jim was also a whiz with M14 rifles. Since I was shooting M14s and M1As in NMC matches we had some interesting conversations about those rifles. Also, when he found out I was in Viet Nam and in Special Forces he opened up a bit about his experiences in the Pacific. It was one infantry combat veteran to another conversations. He always had my utmost respect (even though he was a Marine[smilie=l:) and every bit of his gunsmithing work I saw was first rate.

[WILCO]

Larry, I enjoy your posts.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on various topics.

[farmbif]

that sure is a beautiful gun, spectacular walnut stock

[JimB..]

I could tell you it’s worth $250k, but I’m not sure that your insurance company pay based on what a nearly anonymous guy says on the internet. Do you know what they will accept?

[Winger Ed.]

Selling customs guns for what they'd cost to replace is tough,,,,
unless you're in the custom gun selling business.

I learned that when I thought about selling my (almost) unfired Remington manufactured Springfield 03A3.
It was unissued/unfired when I got it.... Back when a 03A3 cost $400. for one 'assembled from parts'.
It's had about 20 jacketed run through it and a couple hundred cast. It's NOT the 2-groove barrel
It has a beautiful Fajen stock from the early 50s, Timeny trigger, Leupold scope base with a 5 Star Redfield scope,
The bolt handle is a new one welded on-- not just bent. At the time, Fajen sent it out or did the reblueing job on it.
The barreled action looks like someone's final exam project from gunsmithing school.

Best offer I got was $500.
I no loner hunt, I have another .30-06 I built for myself, and don't want my kids to have it.
So I just gave it to my sister and brother in law.

[M-Tecs]

I am not sure if this effects the value of well-known builder custom rifles, but the value of higher-grade Winchester Models 70's and Winchester 21's have fallen dramatically in the last 10 to 15 years. I would recommend talking to some of the current custom builders for advice.

[Ed K]

I am not sure if this effects the value of well-known builder custom rifles, but the value of higher-grade Winchester Models 70's and Winchester 21's have fallen dramatically in the last 10 to 15 years. I would recommend talking to some of the current custom builders for advice.

The particular market is in a downtrend. Anybody younger than 50 wants a stainless/synthetic 6.5 Creedmoor. Anybody older is wondering what their custom rifles are worth.

Practical hunting accuracy of the 20th century is looked down upon. Sub-MOA accuracy, unnecessary for most hunting while desirable at the 1000yd range, is what sells.

Lightweight and relatively inexpensive stainless/synthetic rifles sell while beautiful 1903 sporters languish - priced even lower.

To be sure it is a big country and there still exist many with an interest in your rifle. I'm just suggesting it is fewer this year than last and the trend will likely continue resulting in a progressively more attractive buyers market. This is a reality for much of the demographic here on Cast Boolits.

[Idaho45guy]

Can't help with the value of that very nice looking rifle but I did know Jim Zahm. I lived in LaGrande at the time and would frequent Wallow County. Jim was also a whiz with M14 rifles. Since I was shooting M14s and M1As in NMC matches we had some interesting conversations about those rifles. Also, when he found out I was in Viet Nam and in Special Forces he opened up a bit about his experiences in the Pacific. It was one infantry combat veteran to another conversations. He always had my utmost respect (even though he was a Marine[smilie=l:) and every bit of his gunsmithing work I saw was first rate.

Thanks for sharing!

[Idaho45guy]

The particular market is in a downtrend. Anybody younger than 50 wants a stainless/synthetic 6.5 Creedmoor. Anybody older is wondering what their custom rifles are worth.

Practical hunting accuracy of the 20th century is looked down upon. Sub-MOA accuracy, unnecessary for most hunting while desirable at the 1000yd range, is what sells.

Lightweight and relatively inexpensive stainless/synthetic rifles sell while beautiful 1903 sporters languish - priced even lower.

To be sure it is a big country and there still exist many with an interest in your rifle. I'm just suggesting it is fewer this year than last and the trend will likely continue resulting in a progressively more attractive buyers market. This is a reality for much of the demographic here on Cast Boolits.

Good points.

[Mk42gunner]

The particular market is in a downtrend. Anybody younger than 50 wants a stainless/synthetic 6.5 Creedmoor. Anybody older is wondering what their custom rifles are worth.

Practical hunting accuracy of the 20th century is looked down upon. Sub-MOA accuracy, unnecessary for most hunting while desirable at the 1000yd range, is what sells.

Lightweight and relatively inexpensive stainless/synthetic rifles sell while beautiful 1903 sporters languish - priced even lower.

To be sure it is a big country and there still exist many with an interest in your rifle. I'm just suggesting it is fewer this year than last and the trend will likely continue resulting in a progressively more attractive buyers market. This is a reality for much of the demographic here on Cast Boolits.
Thankfully I'm over fifty then. I would rather have something like the .25-06 Model 70 that Idaho45guy showed in the first post than anything with a plastic stock. It should be good for anything from large deer on down within a ¼ mile.

I'm not a complete curmudgeon, yet. I can appreciate how a plastic stock and stainless do for practicality, but for looks and pride of ownership give me blue steel and walnut (or maple) any day.

For insurance value, I'd put it no lower than $5,000. I seriously doubt you could replace it for that amount though.

Robert

[dverna]

The particular market is in a downtrend. Anybody younger than 50 wants a stainless/synthetic 6.5 Creedmoor. Anybody older is wondering what their custom rifles are worth.

Practical hunting accuracy of the 20th century is looked down upon. Sub-MOA accuracy, unnecessary for most hunting while desirable at the 1000yd range, is what sells.

Lightweight and relatively inexpensive stainless/synthetic rifles sell while beautiful 1903 sporters languish - priced even lower.

To be sure it is a big country and there still exist many with an interest in your rifle. I'm just suggesting it is fewer this year than last and the trend will likely continue resulting in a progressively more attractive buyers market. This is a reality for much of the demographic here on Cast Boolits.

Regrettably, much truth to this.

Even on this site, I see many decent deals that that no one wants. I wish I was 20-30 years younger but I am selling off much of my stuff. Reminds me of that Jimmy Buffet song…Born 200 Years Too Late…change the 200 to 20.

BTW, a very fine rifle. Hope you get to use it for many years.

[243winxb]

Old style stock & 25-06. $2000, Based on new gun prices & Auctions. https://horstauction.hibid.com/lot/155465541/winchester-model-70-super-grade?ref=catalog

Model 70 Super Grade - Serial # 429018. .270 Win caliber bolt action rifle with a 24” barrel. The bore is excellent. Made in 1958 , sold $2500.

Add $500 for your great wood, total $3000?


All orginial for collectors- https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/1007582155

19 bids @ $2000 now.

[JRLesan]

Insurance (rider) is a whole different subject and often a 'can of worms'. Don't think just because you insure your rifle (or jewelry or coins or whatever other valuables) on a 'rider' that you will automatically get that amount after a loss. Ask questions of your insurer...

[waksupi]

The base price for the rifles the company I worked for was $15,000, they currently can be found for 1/4 of that. I have seen some of Dennis Olsen, and John Buhmiller rifles selling for under two grand.

[snowwolfe]

Unfortunately the only way to determine the true value is to sell it via an auction. That is the only way to determine what someone is willing to pay for it.
5 years ago the rule was a custom was worth 50% of its build cost. Nowadays all bets are off a seller would be lucky to reap 1/3rd.

[Idaho45guy]

I think I'm going to sell the custom Model 70's in varmint cartridges such as the .222 Rem Mag and .220 Swift. Beautiful little rifles but I bet they will not get much since they are blued steel and wood.

Seems the younger guys want the ARs for varmints these days. And if not, then stainless fluted barrels and adjustable composite stocks.

[M-Tecs]

I think I'm going to sell the custom Model 70's in varmint cartridges such as the .222 Rem Mag and .220 Swift. Beautiful little rifles but I bet they will not get much since they are blued steel and wood.

Seems the younger guys want the ARs for varmints these days. And if not, then stainless fluted barrels and adjustable composite stocks.

OEM stocks or custom? For varmint rifles having a borescope or a video of the bore will alleviate concerns of the bore being shot out.

[waksupi]

I think I'm going to sell the custom Model 70's in varmint cartridges such as the .222 Rem Mag and .220 Swift. Beautiful little rifles but I bet they will not get much since they are blued steel and wood.

Seems the younger guys want the ARs for varmints these days. And if not, then stainless fluted barrels and adjustable composite stocks.

At the Kalispell gun show this past weekend, 450 tables, I was pleased to see steel and wood had gained advantage over the black guns for the first time in years. The spring and fall Weapons Collector Society of Montana shows are always known for higher quality guns, though. The smaller shows in the summer aren't even worth going to, so don't know about those, entirely different group of vendors.

[Petander]

The particular market is in a downtrend. Anybody younger than 50 wants a stainless/synthetic 6.5 Creedmoor.


Chiming in from across The Pond,yes it's the same over here.

I was cleaning a recent purchase the other night, thinking aloud to my wife. A nice 80's Sako,unfired, can be had for half the price of a NEW plastic Sako. I'm 60 and I love those old Sakos. But for younger it's the new plastic that sells.

I'm okay with that,I shoot all my guns so no collector value illusions here. Just feels strange.

[Idaho45guy]

A nice 80's Sako,unfired, can be had for half the price of a NEW plastic Sako. I'm 60 and I love those old Sakos. But for younger it's the new plastic that sells.



One of the rifles I'm inclined to keep is this Sako Vixen in .222 Rem Mag...

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[Petander]

One of the rifles I'm inclined to keep is this Sako Vixen in .222 Rem Mag...

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Very nice! Those older Sakos were human-made.

Values are not easy to figure out. I have a long term relationship with a gun store / importer and I tend to trust their estimates. They are always lower than I'd like to see. But they are realistic and can work both ways. 22-250 is not popular here. I bought an 80's 22-250 Sako last year for 1/3 what a similar Super Deluxe in 308 would bring.

A custom value is difficult to figure out Good luck!