Longer Ejector for 336 Marlin

[scottnc]

I'm in the final stages of converting a 30-30 Western Auto 336 Marlin to 45 Colt. Test firing and refinishing remain. The ejector could stand to be longer so I was wondering, what shorter cartridges was the 336 chambered in from the factory? I don't think the 336 was ever chambered by Marlin in 45 Colt but it was chambered in 44 Mag. It is doubtful I'd find a new or used original 44 Mag ejector but a picture of the real deal would be nice if anyone has one. Even nicer would be if a scale was laid aside it.

I bought new Marlin parts from Brownell's to convert this rifle to a non-barrel band fore-end close to ten years ago. Dunno what's available these days through either Brownell's or Ruger or what current Ruger production parts fit older guns.

[imashooter2]

Edit: age clouds my memory. The 336 was briefly offered in .44 Mag, not .357.

They made a few thousand 336s in .357 magnum. Probably not going to find one “for parts” and if you did, I don’t know that the ejector is any different than the thuty thuty.

[georgerkahn]

I'm in the final stages of converting a 30-30 Western Auto 336 Marlin to 45 Colt. Test firing and refinishing remain. The ejector could stand to be longer so I was wondering, what shorter cartridges was the 336 chambered in from the factory? I don't think the 336 was ever chambered by Marlin in 45 Colt but it was chambered in 44 Mag. It is doubtful I'd find a new or used original 44 Mag ejector but a picture of the real deal would be nice if anyone has one. Even nicer would be if a scale was laid aside it.

I bought new Marlin parts from Brownell's to convert this rifle to a non-barrel band fore-end close to ten years ago. Dunno what's available these days through either Brownell's or Ruger or what current Ruger production parts fit older guns.

I have no idea re "short" calibres -- I own 336 Marlins and one is in .30-30 Winchester; the other in .35 Remington.
geo

[uscra112]

Why/how would it make any difference?

[Texas by God]

Get an extra standard ejector for the 336, protect the flat spring from heat, and weld/braze/ solder an extension on it(if needed).
If your 30-30 extractor hangs on to the the .45 Colt case well enough, the standard ejector might work.
We like pictures!


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[scottnc]

Why/how would it make any difference?

When cycling loaded rounds of a 325gr LFN there is (without measuring) about .750" of surplus bolt travel before the case contacts the ejector. If I cycle slowly, like when emptying the rifle in a tree stand catching the loaded rounds, the cartridge droops enough the bullet drags the inside of the receiver (on the right side) sometimes leaving a bit of a gouge as the ejector flips the cartridge out. If ejection is done briskly, no problem. Trying to address things I will end up wishing I'd taken time for BEFORE refinishing.

Thought about but haven't looked into seriously, lengthening the ejector groove and moving the existing ejector forward. But, that'd be adding one more unused hole to the left side of the receiver to the two there now . . .

[scottnc]

We like pictures!


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I will see if my 23 year old digital camera is up to the task. What aspect are you most interested in seeing?

[FergusonTO35]

I'm in the final stages of converting a 30-30 Western Auto 336 Marlin to 45 Colt. Test firing and refinishing remain. The ejector could stand to be longer so I was wondering, what shorter cartridges was the 336 chambered in from the factory? I don't think the 336 was ever chambered by Marlin in 45 Colt but it was chambered in 44 Mag. It is doubtful I'd find a new or used original 44 Mag ejector but a picture of the real deal would be nice if anyone has one. Even nicer would be if a scale was laid aside it.

I bought new Marlin parts from Brownell's to convert this rifle to a non-barrel band fore-end close to ten years ago. Dunno what's available these days through either Brownell's or Ruger or what current Ruger production parts fit older guns.

Out of curiosity, why are you wanting .45 Colt in a 336?

[nhithaca]

"They made a few thousand 336s in .357 magnum"
Never seen or heard of a 336 chambered in the 357 Mag (I do have a signed copy of Brophy's book). Only pistol round that I know of was the attempt to use the 336 with 44 Mag in the late 1960s. Didn't work as well as expected so Marlin re-issued the 1894 frame sized gun for all the piston sized cartridges.

[imashooter2]

Oops...

Edit:

"They made a few thousand 336s in .357 magnum"
Never seen or heard of a 336 chambered in the 357 Mag (I do have a signed copy of Brophy's book). Only pistol round that I know of was the attempt to use the 336 with 44 Mag in the late 1960s. Didn't work as well as expected so Marlin re-issued the 1894 frame sized gun for all the piston sized cartridges.

Checked my notes and it seems my memory is fading and you are correct. The rifle I was looking at was a .44 Magnum. I apologize to you and the OP for the error.

[Texas by God]

A .35 Remington extractor might hold the 45LC rim better.
I’m just guessing here.
Pics along the way of the barrel and action work it took is what I meant.


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[Gtek]

Having this same issue in my brain for a long time, several thoughts. You drill a hole farther forward to kick short round, then it comes loose bolt retracted normal length to reset hammer and that will never end or function well. The other two options in thought were to extend or make new internal ejector piece using original spring and location of dowel base which would stay in slot under bolt control and retention through fore and aft travel. Other thought was to rivet/screw a little farther forward a spring loaded something or other. What are you doing about the cartridge length in relation to carrier top and cutting off next round? Also the feed angle, the 44's had a stamped steel lifter added and anybody that has been around one was not impressed too much with smooth feeding shall we say (angle of the dangle). Another thought as you drift into the 336 mod world my head has been in for years, the ejection port. The forward of port is designed for kind of a pointy bottle neck cartridge, I have laid them on their side and open that front up and several turned into oval ports removing some or most taper. I am toying the idea of a 30 Badger single shot on one now, problem I am having is a .480" bolt face of a 35 Rem bolt and control issues with a .440" rim.

[scottnc]

Gtek - Good thought on the problem with moving the ejector forward, I hadn't considered the domino effect of the move. I will give consideration to your thoughts of mounting something to the inner receiver. I have pictures of the cartridge lifter you mention from a 44 Mag 336 with a stamped steel, spring loaded, pop-up. I thought it was to limit the rearward travel of the cartridge when feeding so the case head contacted higher up on the bolt face while cycling? Cycling has been good so far with a well polished 30-30 lifter and bolt face. The barrel hood is highly polished and chamber edge rounded and polished too. It does like a firm hand on the lever though. No problem so far with the next round in the mag tube being held in place while feeding one. I did doctor the loading gate tab or whatever it's called, the next round nests against it. The lever had to be clearanced for the fatter round ala a 45-70 lever. I have on hand a spring loaded detent set screw matching that in at least some of the 44Mag 336's. It went in the space between the barrel and magazine tube and applied pressure to the front of the cartridge lifter. Not seen a need for it so far. The ejection port - the timing is such that the round/empty case is far enough to the rear to miss the tapered profile. The bolt face was trued, the diameter was fine as is. The extractor received just a spattering of polishing, it holds the cartridge tight but not quite flat to the bolt face. I made an action fixture for use in a mill vice. The I.D. of barrel threads in the receiver were truing to the bolt centerline - they were waaay out! The receiver barrel thread O.D. location/run out was decent - which is kinda weird. I guess the receiver was first bored (for whatever reason off center) then single point threaded on center? It worked out. The receiver barrel face was trued at the same time. Found a coated, formed cutting tool that is a very good match for the one-off Marlin barrel thread. Had to make a tool holder for it. Biggest challenge was figuring out the cutting depth of the dovetails for the mag tube and fore end cap due to the custom barrel diameter and inlet mag tube. Had my dovetail clenched until I saw everything fit verifying they were correct!

[scottnc]

Out of curiosity, why are you wanting .45 Colt in a 336?

Got caught up in black bear hunting in western NC where the shots are usually quite close and thought having both a rifle and revolver sharing the same round made sense. At least it rationalized the desire for another gun project. Found a not-ready-for-prime-time, very used pre-crossbolt 30-30 in the backroom of a pawn shop, had Manson make a chamber reamer to match fired cases from my Blackhawk, had Douglas make a custom o.d. 1 in 20 barrel . . . and nearly ten years later, here we are.

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks. Could the rifle be converted back to .30-30 if the project hits a dead end? As you know, any Marlin 30-30 is worth alot more than 10 years ago these days.

[Gtek]

One who has built a few Frankenguns over the years, the ability to extract a loaded (uh-oh didn't go bang) round is a very good thing and I would suggest confirming.

[scottnc]

Thanks. Could the rifle be converted back to .30-30 if the project hits a dead end? As you know, any Marlin 30-30 is worth alot more than 10 years ago these days.

Increase in worth? This was a back room special - condition too sorry to go out front. Had to describe what I was wanting a beater 336 for before the pawn shop guy would admit to having it. Think I paid either $125 or $150 for it.

As far as reverting back to 30-30: Screw the old barrel back in with an adjustment for headspace - setting it back a thread. Mag tube would have to be restored to revert back to a barrel band fore end.

[FergusonTO35]

Even the worst looking but complete and functional Marlin or Winchester should fetch around $300 retail these days. Local shop had a 1996 model cheap mart grade 94 in not terrible but not good condition for $450.00 the other day and it sold within a few hours for asking price. This shop tends to price things a bit low if anything.

[farmbif]

if I'm not mistaken when marlin made the 336 in 44 mag it was only for very short period of time because it just did not work well. I'm pretty sure the ejector was part of the problem

[Moleman-]

"They made a few thousand 336s in .357 magnum"
Never seen or heard of a 336 chambered in the 357 Mag (I do have a signed copy of Brophy's book). Only pistol round that I know of was the attempt to use the 336 with 44 Mag in the late 1960s. Didn't work as well as expected so Marlin re-issued the 1894 frame sized gun for all the piston sized cartridges.

They did make some round bolt Marlin 1894's https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/1894-prototype.529970/ Far as I know they never went into production and only saw the light of day when the assets were being sold off.

[scottnc]

I just demo'd cycling three rounds through mine for a curious neighbor. An additional observation reinforcing my desire for a longer ejector . . . that when cycled slowly the extractor absolutely must hold the cartridge rim against the bolt face securely. Otherwise the round could drop down, into the receiver. Also, at the end of the ejection cycle, a little lever vigor is necessary for the same reason. Should have a scope on it tomorrow.

Texas by God, I'm still up for taking pictures if you can wait until I shoot the thing before taking it apart.

[Moleman-]

Is your extractor pushing the case against the far side of the bolt face and holding it there? If not is it a spring strength issue or reach issue? The 336 I converted to 357Max only needed the extractor slot in the bolt deepened slightly and it works with 38's-357Max case lengths.

[Texas by God]

Keep it coming- following this.


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[Gtek]

Stompin all over this gentleman's thread and his adventures into Marlin modding. Well there is a brand new 1894 38/357 barrel in the box with the rest of needed except the bag of time here. 250 new Starline Max cases, another 35 Rem bolt and a bunch of thoughts. Chamber for the long one and try to get it working, leave chamber and single shot with fixed rod in mag tube hole for hand guard attachment and floating barrel. Guess I am steering back into the Marlins this fall.

[scottnc]

Is your extractor pushing the case against the far side of the bolt face and holding it there? If not is it a spring strength issue or reach issue? The 336 I converted to 357Max only needed the extractor slot in the bolt deepened slightly and it works with 38's-357Max case lengths.

With the rifle held normally, the extractor allows a dummy cartridge to droop just a wee bit and pulls it in the direction of the ejection port. So, down and to the right. Nothing wrong with any of that as it works. But, to my mind it'd work better if the bullet didn't drag against the inside of the receiver until the case hit the ejector. I guess desiring earlier ejection is a personal preference thing. The bullet gets marked up after making a half dozen trips. I can see some scared up bullets a month into deer season loading and unloading the same rounds every trip to the woods.

Moved my loading bench to its new home against a newly erected basement wall yesterday. I found the stash of drawings and notes I acquired before stepping off on this project nearly a decade ago . . . in there is pictures of the Marlin 336 44Mag ejector and cartridge lifter/carrier. The ejector looks pretty much like Texas by God recommended. Rube Goldberg came to mind. You younger folks unfamiliar with Rube might want to do a search.

[Moleman-]

The cartridge shouldn't droop enough to cause an issue though. There is a slight rim thickness difference between 30-30 and 45 colt and if the reach of the extractor is too long the cartridge will droop more than normally. You might try removing the extractor and bending and arching it slighly inward to reduce that extractor/bolt face gap so the case is held more firmly to the bolt face. With the case drooping towards the ejection port that also means the left side of the rim has lifted off of the bolt face. There should be enough tension from the extractor pushing the rim up against the far side of the bolt face pocket to keep that from happening. If rebending the spring doesn't help, the extractor may be resting on the bottom of it's slot in the bolt and not on the case rim. I had to deepen the extractor slot in the bolt slightly on my 357Max 336 because it was doing the same thing.

You could make a new ejector and extend the ejection surface about 3/16" forward before you run out of ejector slot in the receiver and would need to lengthen the slot.

[scottnc]

Moleman, Plan was to shoot it enough today to get crono info and zero the scope - it rained. I did smoke over the extractor but it's been years ago, I've since forgotten what was done. I'll give it a good look when I take it apart for inspection and cleaning.

Talked to a fellow today, a gunsmith by trade who's either building or assembling a long ago disassembled parts pile 44-40 336 (old conversion? Dunno, didn't see it), he thinks he has a line on a longer ejector from scrounging for Marlin bits for the 44-40.

[Gtek]

What if you sourced another ejector and cut in center and added similar material at desired length and Mig/Tig and dress in. Would be controlled like original, maybe better with added length riding groove and everything same same front and rear. Might require a mill pass extending slot forward in receiver to allow added. I am going to go Marlin diving soon, thanks for the rattle.

[scottnc]

Finally scored a sunny day and time to play. Set-up the chronograph and bench mid-morning. I'd been the eye doctor so I got a late start. Anyway, needed to make sure the gun functioned with live ammo and get it hitting to point of aim. I picked a Primary Arm scope 610001,1-4X24 with an illuminated dot duplex reticle. The ocular lens end of this scope is inordinately long, when combined with a DNZ 12048 Game Reaper scope mount the scope ends up too far to the rear. I knew this but hadn't addressed it since putting the scope on more than a week ago. So, got all set up for the first shot, checked that the sky screens were gonna be safe, chambered a round and at the shot wound up with the first scope cut of my life, more correctly shooting glasses cut. I hadn't realized my eyes were still dilated and being all jazzed up to finally get to shoot this thing after nearly ten years - I ignored the fact that once positioned to where the reticle was focused - I was too dang close to the scope. The DNZ mount also has provisions for the 1894 Marlin and Henry Big Boy so there is an extra set of front mount holes that if used move the mount forward enough to be correct. Two new rear receiver holes would be required for this to work on a 336. I didn't have an 8-40 tap so the scope got left where it was. I ordered a pair of taps.

A single sample of a 335g lead WW load that averages just under 1200fps in my Ruger Bisley hit 1600 in the 22 1/2" barrel.

[beagle]

Owned a 336 Marlin in .44 Mag about 15 years ago. Had a saddle ring of all things and the ejector was definitely different. One reason I got rid of it was the anticipated shortage of spare parts. As I recall, it was fairly straighforward and could be made by a gunsmith. Finding one to copy may be the problem. It functioned all right but the barrel was on it's last legs and it didn't accomplish my goal of shooting 300 grain bullets reliably so it moved on./beagle

[scottnc]

The scope has been moved forward. Gun reassembled, so of course rain today. Wine grapes are coming on fast so getting the bench out again will need to wait until after harvest. Regarding the ejector, I'm looking for a spare generic caliber ejector to salvage only the base (the bit that sits in the receiver) and investigate installing on it a custom ejector (the bent springy part). According to my calibrated eye, a half inch more than the stock 30-30 ejector ought to do the trick. I think Brownell's sells blanks for making custom leaf springs.