Musing, thinking of a CCW wheelgun

[armoredman]

I am a sometimes-older fashioned guy, have been known to carry a round gun a time or two, but I started thinking of a CCW wheelie that I just can't seem to find, or maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Specifically, a 3-inch barrel, 357 mag, but in a J frame size, 5 or 6 rounds, bobbed hammer or concealed hammer, reputable quality manufacturer, and no Hillary Hole. I can go to just 38 Special.
Thoughts?

[HarryT]

S&W Model 640. Around $800

[HWooldridge]

642 S&W Airweight is what I carry. Light and small profile.

[Recycled bullet]

My response to your question is: Smith & Wesson model 60 or Ruger SP101. Both guns can be had in 357 Magnum and both of them use the same HKS 36a five shots speed loaders. Holster would be pancake with a thumb snap or inside the waistband with the underbelt retention clips. There's been a bunch of snub nose revolvers made in between 2 1/4-3 inch barrel that I could see meeting your criteria.

What gun do you have in mind?

[armoredman]

Well, like the criteria I posted above, no Hillary Hole, 3 inch barrel, 5 or 6 shot, (I think 6 would be better) 357 mag, or 38 Special. i have had many Smith and Wesson revolvers in the past, very familiar with them.
The 640 comes close, but the barrel length isn't what I want.
The 642 has the same problem, barrel length is under 2". Both are excellent revolvers, just not what I am looking for.
I could go to a K frame size, but I don't think anything in that size can be found with a factory bobbed/concealed hammer, and all new Smiths other than the 340 types come with the Hillary Hole. Honestly looking for opinions, thank you!

[imashooter2]

My thought is, I’ve shot an Airlight S&W 360 with factory .357 Magnum self defense ammo. 1 box convinced me that .38 +P was the way to go in a light snub nose.

I carried a 360 Airlight for years. Now I carry the M38 Airweight that I bought for my Father before he passed. Pocket carry is super convenient. The sort of convenience that ensures the gun will be with you and not on the dresser. I like Mika holsters. They aren’t pretty like leather, but they keep sweat off the gun and stay in your pocket when the gun comes out.

http://imashooter2.com/pictures/m38.jpg

[rintinglen]

Colt king Cobra, $899; Ruger Sp101, $919; Taurus 605, $479. As far as I know, those are the only 3 inch small frame .357's that don't have the Hilary hole.

Doh! I forgot the Kimber K6 DASA. MSRP $1,091.00. (Price is probably why I forgot it.)

[wilecoyote]

Well, like the criteria I posted above, no Hillary Hole, 3 inch barrel, 5 or 6 shot, (I think 6 would be better) 357 mag, or 38 Special. i have had many Smith and Wesson revolvers in the past, very familiar with them. ...
...I could go to a K frame size, but I don't think anything in that size can be found with a factory bobbed/concealed hammer...

I've a pre-lock 19-4_
19 or 66 combat magnum can be equipped with a pair of Bianchi Lightning grips, ugly as they are, which make it unnecessary to custom-bob the hammer, and hammer still remains fully usable_
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[stubshaft]

My first ever carry gun was a S&W Model 19 2 1/2" Round Butt and I wish I never sold it. Nowadays, I get by with my 642, model 36 and 325PD AirLite.

[MrWolf]

Have you looked at a Kimber K6S STAINLESS 3”? Not a revolver guy though I do have a few.

[lightload]

Heavier handguns tend to be left home. I vote for a hammerless Smith J frame airweight or Ruger LCR. You won't fire many magnum rounds through a small revolver. A 38 Spl loaded with wadcutters might work for you.

[david s]

Some of the S&W model 60 five shot J frames were offered with 3-inch barrels in both 38 and 357. They have the advantage over the shorter barreled versions of the full-length ejector rod.

[billmc2]

Charter Arms Professional is also a 3", 6 round, .357 Mag with a lifetime warranty. I've found their customer service to be very good.

[hoodat]

Been my experience that "small, lightweight, and 357" don't go together real well. "small, lightweight, and 38 special" works pretty good. jd

[redhawk0]

I have a Taurus 85 (5 shot). Its 38+P not 357Mag....but I love it as a carry gun. You might want to check out their 605 model https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/small-frame-revolvers/taurus-605

redhawk

317394

[beemer]

I have a S&W Airweight 638. I tried a lot of pistols over the years and finally found this one, I am done. I have tried small autos and I am not comfortable with them for several reasons. I like the ability to carry a snake shot in the cylinder. Everything is a trade off, just have to figure what you are willing to give up.

I don't like the Hillary hole either but I just ignore it and go on. I have a Taurus Ultralite I carry while working outside and a Taurus 605 when I want a little more. The Taurus revolvers don't have a lock in the frame but do have a lock on the hammer.

I like the 2" barrels, I usually carry inside the waist band appendix. A 3" would be a little long for me. Pocket carry would be different but I don't like pocket carry because it is hard to draw setting down.

Everyone is different and have different situations. There is one that will fill your needs, just keep looking.

[Texas by God]

I don’t think that TauRossi makes a 5 shot .38 snub anymore; but I sure like this one. Even with its steel frame it carries well.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230826/30264d9c2f20ba9c81667100e6da4085.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[justindad]

Have you looked at a Kimber K6S STAINLESS 3”? Not a revolver guy though I do have a few.

That’s what I carry. There is one thing about the K6S, which is that they put grease inside the clockwork that is known to dry up and seize the action. I experienced it first hand, read about it, and fixed the gun myself (why have Kimber apply more faulty grease?). The grease literally dried to a powder after a year & 500 rounds. It was a very sudden failure, and could have entirely manifest itself at the worst time with no forewarning.
*
It’s a beautiful gun, no exposed hammer, accurate, and is the lightest .357 that holds 6 rounds. If you can’t resolve that bad grease issue yourself, I would not recommend the Kimber K6S for SD.

[armoredman]

Been my experience that "small, lightweight, and 357" don't go together real well. "small, lightweight, and 38 special" works pretty good. jd

Yeah, my experience as well, but a 357 mag version will have a little bit more weight to hold down recoil.
I looked at the Kimber, currently out of my price range, though that may change.
I have had good luck with Taurus over the years - is their new stuff reliable? I haven't bought a Taurus in 30 years, but the revolvers I had back in the day were quite nice.
Is Charter Arms the same management as when it was Charco or Charter 2000? I wouldn't walk across the street for one of those guns; they ruined a fine name.
wilecoyote, that 19-4 with the Lightning grips looks interesting - how do you carry it? It appears those grips are out of print?
Thank you all for the ideas, much appreciated.

[Tracy]

Another vote for a Taurus. I have a Model 85 snubby that I have had for about 10 years and it has never given me an ounce of trouble. .38 Special, but it will handle any +P or +P+ ammo on the market.
Taurus makes one now that is the same frame but with a 6 shot cylinder, and it can be had with a 3" barrel too. Model 856. Bud's has them in stock for about $350.
They also have basically the same gun in .357 Magnum, 5 shot only, also available with a 3" barrel, for the same price. Model 605.

[beemer]

Taurus does make the 605 with a 3 " barrel.

I didn't buy a Taurus 605 to shoot 357 mag. I shoot a warm 38 Spcl loads but chambering a 357 mag round does give you options. I have had, I think six Taurus revolvers and have had good service from them.

Texas, my buddy had a Rossi 38 like yours, very accurate and shot to POA. He actually shot a couple squirrels with it.

[wilecoyote]

...wilecoyote, that 19-4 with the Lightning grips looks interesting - how do you carry it? It appears those grips are out of print?...

...herein lies Lightning's main drawback and perhaps the reason for their modest success, if you tell me that today they are discontinued, in spite of the functional advantages offered. (as on the other hand my 19 is also discontinued)
keep in mind that I may not be updated on what the market offers today, here very little comes from the USA, and what little there is dates back to supplies from years ago or my researches in the second-hand market.
anyway the thickness created by the hammer shroud means that every snub19 dedicated, outside-the-pants holster, equipped with a safety strap (leather strap+automatic button) must be modified/elongated because the factory strap would be too short for a Lightning-equipped 19_ I've seen that in what I have. Bianchi and Safariland for sure.
Not a big deal, half inch or less, but to be known first_
the inside-t.-p. solutions remain, no strap, not for everyone comfortable, of course_
or the vertical shoulder holster, longitudinally front open, with retention entrusted to a harmonic steel spring, but in this case these grips, longer than the oem, can be quite cumbersome...._
truly it all depends on the lifestyle and physical build of each of us, etc..
I'm not very good at properly explaining the technical details of it, but over time I have had the opportunity to collect different models, custom- adapted and not, precisely to solve this problem, but still produced between the 80s and today. so photos maybe could make sense, if further interested_
in case, feel free to p.m. or e-mail me, sir_

[armoredman]

I have looked at both of those Taurus wheelies...price is right, that's for certain.

wile, I'm sorry, I forgot you weren't in the States.

[Daekar]

My carry gun is exactly as you described. A S&W Model 60 with a 3" barrel, adjustable sights, all steel, 357 magnum chambers, recent manufacture. Mine has the Hillary Hole, but it hasn't been a problem. I can't recommend it highly enough, so consider accepting the Hillary Hole and getting a delete kit... they're easy to install if it bothers you.

You might also consider the Kimber K6S 3", which can be had with a concealed hammer and 6 shots. If I were going to do it all over again based on today's market, I would seriously consider getting the Kimber and swapping out the sights for the adjustable target versions. 6 shots in a J-frame size is hard to argue with.

All due respect to those who carry a 2" snub, but I can't imagine ever doing that. My ability to aim would just be in the toilet, I have enough trouble with the 3" barrel. I really think 3" is the sweet spot for function and concealability.

[billmc2]

Is Charter Arms the same management as when it was Charco or Charter 2000? I wouldn't walk across the street for one of those guns; they ruined a fine name.


I'm pretty sure you can read about their history on their website, but no they are not the same. One of the original owners bought the company back and they are now located in Shelton CT. They say that any of the guns made in Shelton have the lifetime warranty.

I received an email from them the other day, 8/22, announcing a couple of new models. This is what was in that email:

317413

[armoredman]

..egad...

[smkummer]

I can’t imagine a DA trigger better and smoother than the new colt cobra and king cobra. Myself, I carry the older alloy cobra for its weight advantage.

[compass will]

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/performance-center-model-642
Great action brand new, no lock, 1" shorter than your ask, but I can shoot this as good as my 3" model 60. This one only takes +p but nothing wrong with them.

[Jeff Michel]

Model 36 or 60 with wad cutters. No hollow point is going to open at 38 special velocities and a wad cutter will punch a full sized hole with the associated soft tissue damage. I've shot the 357 stubbies, no thanks.

[Ramjet-SS]

I will also say the K6 double action only in 3” is a superb gun. I wear mine CCW inside the waistband apex. It accurate points naturally smooth double action and smooth so no snagging on draw. Recoil is easy to manage. I have some 140 grain XTP loaded over WW 296 they run fantastic in the Kimber. The flat sided cylinder helps with concealment and it’s a 6-shot. I prefer this Kimber over the Ruger or the Smith. If you shoot one you will find a way to afford it.

[justindad]

You can get Crimson Trace laser sight grips for the K6S. The 3” version with no exposed hammer fits nicely in most of my front pockets with a sticky slip-in holster. Even though I quick am to point out it’s short-comings (eg. cylinder locks & dried grease), I won’t be surprised if I ever get the tactical version with a 4” barrel. I held a 6” GP100 with full under lug the other day, and that thing is gigantic… might as well go straight to a 7.5” Blackhawk.

[imashooter2]

Model 36 or 60 with wad cutters. No hollow point is going to open at 38 special velocities and a wad cutter will punch a full sized hole with the associated soft tissue damage. I've shot the 357 stubbies, no thanks.

Speer Short Barrel will, but admittedly it is +P.
http://imashooter2.com/books_manuals/SpeerGDHP.pdf

[charlie b]

Had a Taurus 85 and 605, then a Ruger SP101 (2 1/4). I liked all of them. The two Taurus were from back in the 90's. Bought them cause their triggers were REALLY nice. Then traded them off. Later I wanted another 605 (2004?) and the local shops could not get me one. That was when I got the Ruger. Trigger wasn't as nice but it wasn't bad. I liked shooting it better as the stock grip fit me well.

A friend has a Charter Arms .44spl that he loved. He'd probably have one of their .45's if he was still alive. He liked larger bullets :)

It all depends on how you will carry it. A snubbie can be carried almost any position. Ankles and pockets are common choices. Longer barrel narrows the choices.

[RJM52]

I believe back in the 1990s S&W made several runs of 649s and 642s with a 3" barrel...very hard to find however. I remembers seeing one of the 942s with a 3" barrel for same on GB not too long ago...

A friend has a pre-IL 649-2 I believe with a 2.5" barrel in .357. Was a limited Distributor Special run for someone with Mag-Na-Port barrel..

Bob

[RJM52]

642

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1000310904

[1Papalote]

Seldom carry a j frame. Ruger GP100 3" is toted most often. Yes it's heavy but I can hit with it.

[rintinglen]

My personal choice for CCW revolver, at least in a 3 inch, is this model 60. It was a Michigan State Police over run. Last year, I ran a series of Dicken drills with various guns that I sometimes carry and this was the winner. It carries discreetly in an IWB holster, blending nicely with the blubber bulges that adorn my waistline and is capable of 50 yard Head shots. It is a 5 shot J-frame, pre-Hilary hole and while a bit heavy for pocket carry, does just fine on a belt in a Summer Special-style holster
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[LAGS]

That pistol is basically the same as the Rossi 885 that Armoredman is playing with.
His is a 2" barrel and my Rossi 88 is a 3" barrel.
Armoredman wants my 3" model over his.
The longer ejector rod used on the model with the longer barrel makes it easier to eject the fired casings.
But now that he has had his Rossi Bobbed , he has a better idea on what the S&W model 60 will be like if he can find one with the 3" barrel.
I too prefer the 3" over other barrel on a CCW pistol.
On my carry revolvers , I prefer the 5" barrels.
One of my favorites is my Model 27 S&W .357 along with two Victory models one in .38 SPL and the other in 38/200

[justindad]

Excluding pocket carry, the main thing that hinders concealment is the grips. A 3” barrel is the minimum length for me.

[LAGS]

I agree with you about the grips often effecting concealment.
Several times I either modified the factory grips , or built new smaller more concealable grips.
On a couple of pistols I did modify the frame to reshape it for a different grip style.
IE.
Turn a Square Butt frame into a Round or Birds Head frame shape.

[charlie b]

Don't know if they still do or not....back when I had the Taurus 85 they had some nice 'custom' grips. I bought a pair of Rosewood, they were beautiful and small. For concealing they were great. If I wanted to shoot it at the range in an extended session I'd put the rubber grips back on as they were a tad larger.

[armoredman]

The 3 inch tube does allow for a full size ejector rob, for certain. The snub will hang up on ejecting, so I'd better get it done in 5 shots! On the other hand, that bobbed hammer slides out of the pocket like greased lightning, VERY surprised how well it draws from good jeans.
A 3 inch might work better in an IWB rig or a shoulder holster, (wearable in AZ only three months of the year), but still...got that itch...
Edit to add, LAGS, that 3 inch Rossi is your favorite carry revolver, I couldn't take that from you! :)

[lancem]

If you can find one I really like my Colt Cobra, think it's a 2" barrel, shrouded hammer, aluminum frame, 38 special. Pretty sure by the looks of it mine was a cops backup before I bought it from a store known to cater to the local PD in the 70's. Dead nuts on with the 158 gr FBI load and light enough to forget you have it with you.

[Charlie Horse]

S&W 638.

However....Although it is rated for +P, I would limit the amount of shooting the Airweights get. The bolt hole on mine wore with only wadcutters. S&W replaced the frame - with a used one it looks like. Now that I've got it back it gets carried a lot and shot little.

[oldhenry]

Seldom carry a j frame. Ruger GP100 3" is toted most often. Yes it's heavy but I can hit with it.

I'm with you. A light +P .38 spec. or heaven forbid a .357 in any boolit weight stings my hand & would only be accurate enough for very close encounters. My 3" GP100 in .44 spec. with mild large meplat boolits in 200-225gr. is accurate & a pleasure to shoot. My carry & house load with SAECO #441 boolits (250 gr.) is easy on the hand with 5.0-5.5 of HP-38. The optional small grips work OK & help with concealment.

My wife's #49 is concealable, but is no lightweight.

Above said: my church gun is an OM SR1911 with 124 gr. Gold Dots.

[Rodfac]

I carry a Smith M-60 with a 3" bbl. probably 75% of the time when going concealed to town. The load is Speer's 135 gr Gold Dot in the .38 Spl +P loading. With good stocks on the gun, that load expands well and is entirely manageable for repeat shots from a recoil standpoint. Another plus is the shorter .38 Spl case ejects better than the longer .357.

While the M-60 is a .357, it handles as well as the .38's and still offers the extra punch if you can handle the "heroic" recoil of the heavier loading. Mine is comfortable with "FBI" level loads (158's at ~850-900) for an hour's shooting; and that's no *****-cat loading either.

I prefer the adjustable sights and after almost 60 years of toting Smith's around, I've never damaged any of them...they're not fragile as some would opine. Shooting 158 LSWC's one day and 148 WC the next, they make re-zeroing easy. I also think of mine as a pretty good field gun as the 3" bbl. is plenty accurate out to 25 yds with those good S&W sights. Accuracy runs to ~3" at 25 yds with it as compared to ~2" with my 4" bbl'd Smiths...really not enough to matter when field shooting.

As to the bobbed hammer...not for me, I like the advantage of SA precision fire and I've never, repeat, NEVER had a hammer hang up on a shirt tail or jacket with my OWB method of carry...that's just a training issue & easily mastered.

About my only gripe on any of Smith's J frames is the coiled mainspring just won't allow as good a DA trigger pull as the leaf type on their K,L, & N frames, in my experience. I have close to 2000 rounds through my M-60, and it's smoothed up considerably, but it's still not as nice as my M-66, 18 & 67.

Lastly, I carry OWB and dress around the gun, as you can see below...and a shirt tail or a jacket covers the gun just as easily as a 2" bbl'd piece, I've found. Here's the gun in my usual concealed and open carry position...note that it's possible to tuck the muzzle of the holster into a hip pocket for even better concealment, (a big plus with my 4" bbl'd K frames). OWB works for me as I'm leery of any appendix carry position and only slightly less concerned about IWB. With a revolver, that cylinder bulge does not lend itself to either, while offering a safer, easier re-holster move. YMMv & HTH's, Rod

https://i.postimg.cc/RZGX5KRt/IMG-7965.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Captain O]

I have a "J" frame shrouded-hammer Airweight in .32 H&R Magnum. With its 2" barrel it can "vanish" in either a shoulder holster or IWB. Light, fast, and six shots can be dumped into a bad guy very quickly. This revolver isn't too shabby.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[oscarflytyer]

A Taurus 856 UL 38 SPC. Snubbie 6 shot +P J frame size alloy

So I would not have bought this gun for a carry in and of itself... Traded and awful Ruger 22 wheelie MIL gave to the kids for it (new) straight across. I/we got it specifically for a kayak snake shot defense gun ( I am in AL) as it was alloy and I can carry snake shot.

I have recently found myself carrying it as a regular CCW in the Summer because it is so light and alloy and 6 shot and +P. Plus, the 6 rd Smith K speed loader will work with it. With the 6 rds and the speed loader I do not feel under gunned. Actually feel 'better' with it than I do the 7 shot Ruger LCP 380 + 6x mag. Loaded, in shorts with a thin web belt, I still hardly know its there.

One big recommendation for a carry hostler (assuming you carry on a belt/shirt untucked: Azula leather holsters. I swear by them. I use them for the Taurus/Beretta 82/K/N/Ruger Redhawk 45. All are pancake heavy molded leather. Awesome quality/fit/retention and the price is def right. Even the BIG Redhawk carries exceptionally well in their holster.

[Jtarm]

Unless going pocket carry, I see no reason not to go with a 3” 6-shot.

I carry a 3” S&W M-64 AIWB.

Starting new, I’d opt for the 3” King Cobra. I don’t care for the bright stainless finish though. Slightly smaller frame than the Smith K.

A less-expensive option is the Taurus 856. Although regarded as cute-rate, the Taurus seems to be gaining popularity among serous revo users.

[FAAFO6]

Rodfac has it pretty much nailed with his choice of the S&W M60 3 inch with the adjustable sights. I prefer the Pachmayr Professional grips which are very concealable yet give (at least for me) a very comfortable grip with good control of heavier loads. I have two of them in .38 Special and one later one in .357 on the Magnum J-Frame. I prefer the earlier models in .38 Special.

[Kosh75287]

The FIRST revolver that comes to mind is the Ruger SP-101 in .357 Magnum. It has J-Frame similar dimensions, and is considerably stronger. If such is made, a STEEL, NOT ALLOY J-Frame S&W in .357 may be a bit more "tuneable", but I doubt that it is nearly as strong. EITHER revolver will be sturdy enough that a load launching a 160 gr. LSWC (or RNFP) at an honest 1000 f/s will not batter it as badly as happened with the earlier J-Frame .38s. I concocted such a load, using .38 Spl brass, Alliant Red Dot propellant, small rifle primers and "just hard enough" cast 160 gr. LSWCs. This load celivered an honest 1000 f/s from a 2" (1.875"?) S&W M60 (closer to 1100 f/s from a 3") and was DEFINITELY a "carry often/shoot only if one must" proposition. When shot in true (K-Frame and larger/stronger) .357 magnum revolvers, this load worked exceedingly well on small game and 4-legged predators (3 coyotes, 1 bobcat). I have next to ZERO doubt, that its effect on "2-legged predators" would be similarly exemplary.

The MAIN caveat that I offer is that shooting magnum-level loads in small revolvers is almost as brutal as the attack that you seek to prevent by carrying/using such a piece in your defense. I once touted the 2.5" S&W J-Frame .357s as the most obnoxious firearms I'd ever shot (even worse, to me, than a 4" S&W M29 with full magnum loads), but a "Magnumized" J-Frame in .38/.357 is arguably worse.
If you want seriously reliable stopping power in a diminutive package, I'D suggest a Ruger SP-101 with the largest, "squishyest" rubber grips (stocks) that concealment allows.

[missionary5155]

There are hundreds of old Colt Police Positive 38 specials in about 70% or less floating about that collectors want nothing to do with.
Guess how easy it is to hack saw a 4" down to 2" or whatever length...
Last one I did maybe took a whole 60 minutes to include file perfectly square the muzzle, round off the edge, re-crown the muzzle and re-solder the front sight.
Granted I have done more than 5 so I have no fears to "hurt something".
We bought numerous ones 20 years back+ when the police were swapping for the wonder 9's.
This one has a "Hip Grip" (hooks to the waist band" and is as fine a companion as I need.

[Cane_man]

Ruger LCR 0.38 Special +P

super light, change the grip to something more low profile and you can conceal it just about anywhere

[FergusonTO35]

Don't overlook late model Charter Arms. Both of my Undercovers have a much better out of the box trigger pull than any S&W, Ruger, or Taurus I've ever had. Charter also offers a steel frame five shot which none of the others do unless you want to spend twice as much. I think the steel frame is the perfect weight for a pocket size snubnose. Heavy enough to hold steady and soak up some of the muzzle jump, light enough to not weigh you down.

[engineer401]

I haven't held one and it's a 38+P but the Taurus 856 Executive has almost all of what you need. https://www.taurususa.com/executivegrade/taurus-856-executive-grade

[armoredman]

That does look like a good choice to check out, thank you.

[Frank V]

I’ve found it’s not the bbl length that’s difficult to conceal, but the cylinder width, & the configuration of the butt. A round butt gun is easier to conceal than a square butt gun.

[W.R.Buchanan]

What exactly does a "Hillary's Hole" look like? I have never heard of this on a gun? Also since proper Handgun Calibers all start with a .4 I would ask for a 3" 5 shot .44 Special S&W 696,,, Mine has the X Frame Grips which take all the bite out of S&W Revolvers.

Or the Ruger Version of that gun.(GP100/44) 5 shot .44 Special. Also they have a GP100 with 3" bbl. that uses Moon Clips in 10MM/.40 S&W. You could train and plink with .40 S&W and carry 10MM which could be pretty devastating on the battlefield.

Randy

[Bill*B]

It's "old school", but the little M37 S&W, 1 7/8" .38 Special (fully loaded, less than a pound) comes to mind.

[Gray Fox]

I also have one of the 3" 696s, but it was one of the Lew Horton specials with Magna Porting and there were fewer than 700 made. It's in about 95% condition and I don't carry it any more. I recently picked up a 2.75" model 69 .44 mag on the same L frame and it uses the same holsters. I polished the MIM rebound slide and put in a Wollf 14" spring and it's much better than out of the box. I ordered some Rim Rock Bullet 200 grain full WC with a crimp groove and I'm going to try 5.5 of 231 in mag brass and see how they shoot. GF

[armoredman]

What exactly does a "Hillary's Hole" look like? I have never heard of this on a gun? Also since proper Handgun Calibers all start with a .4 I would ask for a 3" 5 shot .44 Special S&W 696,,, Mine has the X Frame Grips which take all the bite out of S&W Revolvers.

Or the Ruger Version of that gun.(GP100/44) 5 shot .44 Special. Also they have a GP100 with 3" bbl. that uses Moon Clips in 10MM/.40 S&W. You could train and plink with .40 S&W and carry 10MM which could be pretty devastating on the battlefield.

Randy

I don't intend to be on any battlefield, if I can avoid it. Second, more people have fallen to a caliber starting with 3 than any with 4. ;) Heck, World War Part 1 AND Part II were started by a gun with a 3 in the name. Third, the good old .38 Special has done more people in than the .41 Magnum OR .44 Magnum; only .44 that might have bested that record is .44 caliber black powder. I have three of those, and they just don't lend themselves to concealment.
Last, the Hillary Hole is the stupid lock Smith agreed to when Clinton was president. Multiple people have reported the lock engaging at shall we say - inopportune times? No Hillary Hole for me.
BTW, normally I carry a gun that starts with a 9...and I feel JUST fine. :D

[W.R.Buchanan]

Gray Fox: My gun didn't shoot 190 gr SWC's worth a hoot. They were spending too much time in the barrel and were shooting about a foot high at 10 yards.

It does shoot 240 gr Keith Boolits to POA with 6.0 gr of W231.That is the only load I use in that gun now. Might save you some grief?

RAndy

[Andy45]

I am big fan of the S&Ws, but their new shrouded barrels are a big turnoff for me. So I would recommend one of the older ones.

A couple years ago I purchased a Number K6S DASA which I really like. Really nice build quality and very accurate. Thin, concealable, 6 shots, .357, very smooth DA, very crisp SA, but pricey!

[Ramjet-SS]

I was shooting my 3” Kimber today hitting 6-6 at 65 yards in the kill zone center mass. Off hand double action. 140 grain XTP over WW296. Very accurate gun and easy to conceal. I have had Smiths and Rugers but this Kimber is better than each of those that I owned. I like the 3” barrel over shorter. My Colt Python is also a 3”.

[charlie b]

...BTW, normally I carry a gun that starts with a 9...and I feel JUST fine. :D

But...a gun that starts with a 9 is just German for a gun that starts with a 3 :)

While I will always love a 1911 in .45, I will also love my .357's and not feel under gunned with a 9mm or .38.