FREECHEX Gas Check tool

[klcarroll]

Have any of you used the FREECHEX tool being sold on Ebay??

This tool costs something like $39, ......which is about what I am going to pay for 1000 .44 caliber gas checks: .....So I guess my question is: "Will this tool last long enough to make it a good deal???"

Kent

[trevj]

I'd like to know how well they work also. Looking at one for .22 cast bullets for a Hornet loading.

Not so keen on using aluminum pop cans, though. Copper foil in 5-6 and 8-10 thou thicknesses is pretty available, and I would rather go that route, if it's going to be fed down a barrel I want to last.

Maybe it makes not a bit of difference, though.

Cheers
Trev

[mikenbarb]

I know guys that own these and I get mixed emotions on them. Some say their junk and inconsistent and others swear by them. I guess its all up to the user. Check out Pat Marlins GC makers here on this site and I think you will be happy with the product he makes.:-D

[JeffinNZ]

Check (sorry for the pun) the search facility in this forum and you will find nothing but good reports on Freechex.

Has Pat Marlin delivered any tools yet? I haven't seen any reports or results but keen to.

[WildmanJack]

I bought one for .45 gas checks. It works like a charm if you use the correct backing to the matertial your cutting, Then placing the disc it in the die is a piece of cake. My biggest problem was figuring out how to get the cut discs out of the punch. IMHO I give them a big Thumbs up!!!!!!! Easy too use and cheap as well....
Jack

[keebo52]

I just got a Freechex II in .30. It takes a little time to get the hang of it but once I got into the rhythm it went fast and smooth. The checks look great! I'm using .010-.012 cat food cans rather than .004 soda can sides. I haven't shot any but I have 150-200 ready to load in my 30-06.

[Tokarev]

Are these things good like to only those who have lots of empty cans sitting around?

[JeffinNZ]

Very good for those (eg: ME) who have 20 square feet of 0.0118 printing plate lying around.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I recently purchased one of these and found that it works very well. I have used the aluminum from pop cans and itis easy to work with. Its around .005 thick and it is possible to form two discs at the same time to make a thicker .010 check. At around $39 with the shipping if you make and use 1500 of these checks then you have gotten your money back and after that you are way ahead. The Hornady-Lyman monoply game scam with 1000 checks running $25. or more is over for me. I have a dozen 30 cal rifles to feed and with the runaway prices on powder and primers already out of control.... who needs this additional corporate game of greed and strangulation. The user of this tool is not limited to using aluminum pop can material, although that is the cheapest. Some folks use sheet brass, chimmney-roof flashing, sheet copper, cat-food cans etc. with good results. There is a variation of the tool called Freechex II which is made for cutting and forming checks out of thicker material. The kit comes with excellent instructions and samples of gas checks made with Aluminum, copper and brass. Its easy to use once you get the rythm. The gentleman that makes the system has 100% feedback on E-bay for around 500 transactions. He is friendly and answers correspondence. E-mail address is codarnall@yahoo.com for any questions. He also makes various other calibers and may do special order work, but suggest that you ask. I am very pleased with this tool and am glad that I bought one; and as such strongly recommend it to anyone considering getting one. LLS

[Boerrancher]

I have tools similar to Charlie's tool and I also have one of his. All work great. I can say that my 16 thous thick aluminum gas checks shoot better than any of those made by Lyman or Hornady. I have two check makers that are designed to put checks on plain based boolits as well. This is really helpful when wanting a greater variety of pistol boolits to push at high speeds out of rifles. I haven't bought a gas check in several years, and don't ever plan to do so.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Grapeshot]

I too abhore the prices of gas checks as sold by Lyman an Hornady. But some one enlighten me about the use of aluminium as a gas check. I swage bullets and have been warned off using aluminium as the jackets form aluminium oxide and can damage the bore, like constantly fire lapping until your barrel is no longer in spec and your accuracy is gone.

If I am mistaken, correct me please.

[felix]

You are not mistaken. Lube delays the wear and tear caused by almost anything we dare to shoot. Some of the best lapping material is the dust from agricultural quality dirt. If it flies across a large area, it's down into the micro range in grit size. Google: vertisol clay, for example, and you should see that it the finest stuff in the air. Red clay is significantly larger and flies all over OK and TX in the spring. ... felix

[RU shooter]

I too abhore the prices of gas checks as sold by Lyman an Hornady. But some one enlighten me about the use of aluminium as a gas check. I swage bullets and have been warned off using aluminium as the jackets form aluminium oxide and can damage the bore, like constantly fire lapping until your barrel is no longer in spec and your accuracy is gone.

If I am mistaken, correct me please. If your using soda can or as I do painted trim coil .012 thick then there is no oxidation to worry about as they are sealed from moisture and oxygen which cause oxidation by their coating,Also if that still really worrys you there is also brass and copper foil sold by McMaster Carr in the proper thickness ,Yes the price is higher than alum. but still cheaper than buying Hornady checks.I have tried brass and it works well also but no better or worse than my alum. or store bought checks.

Tim

[MT Gianni]

I have a 44 that works fine and a 22 that is a pain. Of course dealing with 22 gc is a pain with factory or not. I anxiously await PatMarlins 30 cal checkmaker.

[Boerrancher]

I too abhore the prices of gas checks as sold by Lyman an Hornady. But some one enlighten me about the use of aluminium as a gas check. I swage bullets and have been warned off using aluminium as the jackets form aluminium oxide and can damage the bore, like constantly fire lapping until your barrel is no longer in spec and your accuracy is gone.

If I am mistaken, correct me please.

Being a certified gemologist/mineralogist I know all about Al03, or aluminum oxide. It is the same stuff that rubies and sapphires are made of. The only thing on the planet harder is diamond. That being said, it is nearly impossible for aluminum oxide to form on processed aluminum, esp once it has been coated with paint. Aluminum does not oxidise as quickly as iron based products like steel. It takes a long long long time for aluminum to rust. The chances of it happening once it is formed into a gas check or a bullet jacket if the check or bullet is stored properly is slim to none. Many of the Winchester pistol rounds are loaded with aluminum jacketed bullets. They are highly polished and many people shoot them. The aluminum oxide hype is just that, hype much of it is being pushed by those folks who have the most to loose by folks not buying and using their products.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Charlie Sometimes]

Crossing an idea from another post with this one- has anyone ever considered using spent primer cups in the 22 forming die and getting a good gas check from that? I measured a few spent primers today and the cup is approximately 0.015 inches thick on both the large and small primers. It may vary with manufactures, or whether it's a rifle or pistol primer, but this could save a step.
I also ran on to some old blow out discs that I saved years ago from a job I was on- they're 0.006 inches thick, and about 7 or 8 inches in diameter Brass or bronze (cartridge case colored). I've got a stack about 5/8 inches thick! That's a lot of potential gas checks.

I'm gonna buy one or two, is the FREECHEX the best one out there? :confused:

[Boerrancher]

Right now Freechex and freechexII seem to be the only ones available. I know that Pat Marlin is tooling up to produce his own type but they are not out yet. Unless you know a good machinist Pat or Charlie are your only two options. I think the freechex II is a better set up than the Freechex, but not sure if Charlie makes it in all cals. Pat's system seems to be good in design, though he has yet to mass produce them. I guess it just depends on if you want to wait for Pat's or try one of Charlies both will do the job.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[JeffinNZ]

Charlie probably will not sell a Freechex II to the US due to the liabilities issues. The gadget makes lots of sharp edges and he lives in fear of being sued. Worth asking him though.

I have a Freechex II and it is great. Yes, I have spiked my fingers and leaked blood but I figure it is cos I was stupid and have no desire to sue anyone. :-D

[Charlie Sometimes]

I got one each of the 22 caliber FreeChex, 30 & 45 caliber FreeChex II. I will NEVER buy another factory gas check again (unless it's a deal just too good to pass up). I can't wait to try them out! [smilie=w:
Seems to be a great guy, and wants to help the shooters out there. He is a 'Nam Vet with 7 years in the USMC (both enlisted and commissioned)- that puts him another notch higher in my book! :D

Told him to check out CastBoolits.com and search for his product to see what people are saying- I thought good reviews, so I was sold. :drinks:

[Chunky Monkey]

I got one each of the 22 caliber FreeChex, 30 & 45 caliber FreeChex II. I will NEVER buy another factory gas check again (unless it's a deal just too good to pass up). I can't wait to try them out! [smilie=w:
Seems to be a great guy, and wants to help the shooters out there. He is a 'Nam Vet with 7 years in the USMC (both enlisted and commissioned)- that puts him another notch higher in my book! :D

Told him to check out CastBoolits.com and search for his product to see what people are saying- I thought good reviews, so I was sold. :drinks:

Thats good Charlie, keep us posted and let us know the results. I am especially interested in the 22! [smilie=1:

[rbuck351]

After seeing the freechex about a year ago I made some of my own and they work as well as factory checks. I use aluminum sheeting for use on roof valleys It's about .010" and comes in a roll about 16"x 10' for around $10. Should make tens of thousands of checks. And the thinner soda cans work on plain base boolits. I'm done with commercial checks.

[Charlie Sometimes]

You betcha! I am awaiting their arrival any day.
There is a gun show this weekend, so I won't get to try them out right away (stress!)
But as the opportunity presents itself.......

[Charlie Sometimes]

I've finally got around to fooling with the Freechex makers. :oops: :shock:
I haven't had the time, or need, until now.
I started with the 22 Freechex I- using the lithe plate I got from JKH.
That stuff works pretty good! :-D
The lithe plate makes for a very uniform check when completed.
I turned the print side out- slight contrast to the bullet, and since it's coated, might prevent oxidization in long term storage- if they oxidize. :?:
The other side has a faint reddish blue shimmer to it- maybe from an annealing process? :?:

If the disc doesn't center properly, you can punch through it, and get a malformed GC. There is some metal sheared and it sticks around the punch but it is easily removed for the next disc. I used a Cook 120 lead hammer to cut the discs and work the punch. A light dead blow hammer would be probably be better. A rawhide mallet was reccommended, I think. I tred a heavy rubber mallet, and a heavy nylon mallet, too. The nylon was better, but I like the lead hammer better.

Also, I used the end grain of several pine 2x6's nailed together to punch the discs out on. I nailed them together and then cut them square on all sides for a secure surface. A lead ingot worked good, too.

Using the Freechex I is a little slower than the II's, since you have to punch out the discs in a separate operation, but works okay.
It will be a long process, but winter is coming, and I have lots of material to work! [smilie=p:

[Tom W.]

I got mine in .45 cal, but needed to get a different mandrel, as all of my checks stayed in my lubrisizer. When Charlie sent me a different mandrel, he also sent me a bit of aluminum flashing that was 0.014, and it worked just great. Of course, that thickness is all but nonexistent in my area so far, but I'll keep looking.

I bought a half-ton arbor press from Harbor Freight to punch my checks out, and it beats the hammer method hands down..

[JeffinNZ]

I got mine in .45 cal, but needed to get a different mandrel, as all of my checks stayed in my lubrisizer. When Charlie sent me a different mandrel, he also sent me a bit of aluminum flashing that was 0.014, and it worked just great. Of course, that thickness is all but nonexistent in my area so far, but I'll keep looking.

I bought a half-ton arbor press from Harbor Freight to punch my checks out, and it beats the hammer method hands down..

Tom, have you considered using two layers of thinner material? I make .303 Brit GC's on a FC II using a layer of 0.0118 litho printing plate on the outside and a layer of 0.0042 soda can on the inside. Net result - 0.016 material. Works great.

[twocool4u]

I have a freechex II in .30 caliber. I can not say enough good things about it and the seller. I bought it one day and received it only three days later. Talk about fast shipping!

I used the piece of aluminum that was sent with it to make a few checks, then I used two different types of aluminum cans, then I bought my own copper. I experimented with three different thicknesses of copper and about five different thicknesses of aluminum before deciding on the thickness that worked best for me.

Now I can make my own copper checks and the one's I make do not have the "bottle cap effect" that I have seen on other homemade checks. To me, the checks that look like bottle caps are a sign of an unrefined check making tool. The checks I used to buy were clean, smooth, and uniform, I want the checks I make to be the same, and using Freechex II they are.

The only downside I have found is that now I have to buy Freechex II in two more calibers.

[kelbro]

My FreechexII in 44 works great. I'm anxious to try one of Pat's for comparison's sake after I get through this last 1K of 30cal Hornadys.

[RoyRogers]

Is the freechex tool still available? Did ebay cut off their sale?

[XWrench3]

what about the "crimp ridge" on the hornady gas checks that is supposed to crimp lock the check into the boolit? i do not think that the freechex tool has this capability. or is the "crimp ring" just a gimmic? i would be very curious as how these actually work out, not just the stamping of the chex, but how well they stay on, and shoot as well. i am no fan of paying big $ for checks. if the freechex tool makes good checks, that stay put, and shoot well, i may have to look into one. when the snow flies here, i am pretty much done, and hibernate until the spring thaw, so making 20,000 or so gas chex would give me something to do! LOL! well, maybe not 20,000, but definitly a years worth!

[1Shirt]

:Have both 30 and 44, and am reasonably satisfied with them. Have just accepted the fact that I must use super glue on the base of the blts befor I size and lube them. Extra step, pain in the tail, but they work. In my 444 they work very very well. Am not as concerned about having one come off inside the case with straight walled cases like 444 or 45-70, but sure don't want one coming off inside a bottle neck case.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[jbc]

Is the freechex tool still available? Did ebay cut off their sale?

They are still for sale - he just had a few .30's and .44's on evilbay last week but they are all gone I think he puts them up as he finishes them and lately the quantitys haven't been real high so you just have to keep an eye out for more to show up on there

[Dollar Bill]

They are still for sale - he just had a few .30's and .44's on evilbay last week but they are all gone I think he puts them up as he finishes them and lately the quantitys haven't been real high so you just have to keep an eye out for more to show up on there
I had emailed him about buying one, and that's the answer I got. As he makes them, up on Evil Bay they go. You just have to keep an eye out.

[Charlie Sometimes]

what about the "crimp ridge" on the hornady gas checks that is supposed to crimp lock the check into the boolit? i do not think that the freechex tool has this capability. or is the "crimp ring" just a gimmic? i would be very curious as how these actually work out, not just the stamping of the chex, but how well they stay on, and shoot as well. i am no fan of paying big $ for checks. if the freechex tool makes good checks, that stay put, and shoot well, i may have to look into one. when the snow flies here, i am pretty much done, and hibernate until the spring thaw, so making 20,000 or so gas chex would give me something to do! LOL! well, maybe not 20,000, but definitly a years worth!

The Freechex are more like the Lyman or Ideal in that they do not have the gimmick burr to crimp into the boolit when seated in a sizer die. I like that too, and I do not know how they get that to remain throughout the manufacturing process. Obviously, the burr is a result of the initial punch out, and looks like the product of a slightly worn or oversized punch die, and then not fully cup-shaped.
The Freechex go on snug, and I would say that also depends on the base of your boolit, too. I have had to pull boolits that had Lyman checks on their bases and had them come off, remaining in the neck of the cartridge, and then had to be fired to remove the check. Wasted my primer & powder. I would not load many if you think that you would have to remove the boolit in any fashion other than firing. I would venture to say that would be the same issue with the Freechex as well. Of, course, the Hornady type would not be totally immune either.
I agree that the thickness of material seems to relate to the quallity appearance of the Freechex. In the 22 Freechex I, the lithe plate makes for a very nice check, without the "bottle lid" appearance. It won't stand for a double thickness of material either.
I haven't tried this stuff to any great length in the 30 and 45 Freechex II's yet. They are lined up waiting, though.

I have tried some brass stock that I have. I think it needs annealed- it is real springy. It doesn't seem to form as easily. I am going to place it into my toaster oven that I use for heat treating boolits, and see how that works.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Here's what they look like installed on a couple of boolits. The checks are just pressed on, and boolits are unsized. The thickness of the material makes the difference between a bottle cap and smooth appearance. [smilie=w:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/C452-300-RFALck.jpg
LEE C452-300-RF with Aluminum lithe plate check (double thickness)

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/C452-300-RFBrassck.jpg
LEE C452-300-RF with a Brass check (double thickness)

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/225438CUck.jpg
Lyman 225438 with a Copper check (single thickness)

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/45FreechexII.jpg
The 45 caliber Freechex II set

[Chunky Monkey]

Look good Charlie!!

[Charlie Sometimes]

By the way- the double aluminum checks weighed 2.5 gr., and the double brass were 7.5 gr. each!

In the picture with the aluminum check, the "print" side is out.
I'll put some up tomorrow of silver side out and a "bottle cap" check.

I like the way the lithe plate works in these check makers.

Don't skimp and get your holes/ discs to close together when punching out- leave a little betwen punches. If the edges are not round, the check will be a little deformed or stretch more in that spot, depending. Look at the bottom edge of the aluminum check photo- that's what happend on that one.

[Tom W.]

Charlie, Re: your photo... My Freechex II the piece that you have in the middle.. well, mine is a metal tube like thing surrounded by a vary hard plastic sleeve substance, where yours is metal and engraved or knurled. I don't suppose that it makes any difference.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Charlie, Re: your photo... My Freechex II the piece that you have in the middle.. well, mine is a metal tube like thing surrounded by a vary hard plastic sleeve substance, where yours is metal and engraved or knurled. I don't suppose that it makes any difference.

My 30 caliber has the nylon shock absorber.
The one in the picture is my 45 caliber- it has an o-ring shock absorber, and seems to work pretty good.
He explained to me that was to keep it from tearing itself apart from repeated impacts.
The brass that I use needs a bit more of a whack to cut through (haven't tried the annealing process yet), and it seems to be able to take the extra abuse.

I'll ad pictures of the 22 Freechex I and the 30 caliber Freechex II today, too. [smilie=s:

[Dale53]

I was not interested in a gas check tool as I could envision taking forever to make a couple of gas checks. I am retired but my time is worth SOMETHING:veryconfu.

However (notice how often there is a "however":bigsmyl2:) as a direct result of this discussion, I was curious. I went to Ebay and looked at the Free Chex II (for .44 it is now $41.95 + $4.95 shipping. Then I saw a link to "YouTube" with a video on making checks using one of those small arbor presses sold at Harbor Freight and other places for a relatively small amount of money. NOW, this thing makes absolute sense. I already have a small arbor press and the gentleman on the "YouTube" video has a high enough production rate that it makes really good sense. He states he can do about 400 per hour (that is less time than it takes to cast, lube, and size bullets for most of us).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GNCVcD4DmE

Ok, I'm sold and I ordered one. I am NOT going to be a great user of these but I AM very interested in the process and right now gas check prices from commercial sources are RIDICULOUS. This will be my "Tea Party" protest against these high costs. Plus, with the arbor press it is now PRACTICAL for me...

Recently, I purchased a very nice four cavity mould (Lyman 431244) for a good price and now this.... I have been a confirmed plain base bullet user (Keith's forever!:mrgreen:) but, who knows...

FWIW
Dale53

[Charlie Sometimes]

The injector and foot valve blew out in my well this morning! :-x
Needless to say, I did not get around to the pictures as early as I thought I would.
That project went fairly "well" :groner:, so I didn't stay po'd very long today.
I finally got around to taking the pic's, so look below.

Making the 22 checks is a real lesson in patience- I'll give you that.
My big ol' fingers has a hard time separating and picking them itty bitty discs up!
It's llike trying to pick up a penney with a handfull of Vienna Sausages!

With these sets, you can make gas checks anywhere, anytime, at least.
I intend to get an arbor press and try that eventually- that's got to wait now that I threw some of my stimulus money down the well!

As promised, here they are-

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/45silversideck.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/45lidck.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/30lidck.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/AlCuckdeformed.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/AlCuckdeformededge.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/2245cks.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/22FreechexI.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c164/BaptisteBrown/30FreechexII.jpg

[Tom W.]

I bought a half ton arbor press when I ordered my FreeChex II. I ain't about to mash my fingers with a hammer.... again.

[Tom W.]

BTW.... What is an arbor press supposed to be used for?

[3006guns]

An arbor press is used to press an arbor (actually called a mandrel).........no joke.

When machining say, a pulley on a lathe, it's more efficient to have access to both sides......so an arbor (mandrel) with a very slight taper is pressed tightly into the center hole then placed in the lathe for the work. Imagine a "wheel and axle" where the axle spins between the lathe centers so you can machine the "wheel" to spec. After the work is done the arbor press is used again to push the arbor out from the opposite direction to remove it.

Arbor presses are also used for general shop work for just about anything that needs a "push"......like installing bushings, etc.

[Bob J]

Hi Guys,
Any suggestions on setting up the arbor press? I saw in the video that a steering wheel removal tool was used to locate the Freechex but the tool I looked at in harbor freight didn't look anything like the one in the video.... :-(

[Trey45]

I recently received a freechex II tool in 30 caliber. I was considering using an arbor press with it, but opted for a big piece of brass instead. The weight of the brass round stock I'm using is almost heavy enough by itself to cut the aluminum. I went to Lowes yesterday to buy a roll of roof flashing, they had chimney flashing in stacks that was cut in easy to handle rectangles. I believe it's called chimney flashing? It measures .009 and makes perfect gas checks.

[kelbro]

The FreeChexII tool in 44 fits right over the narrow slot on the base of the HF 1-ton press. No fixture required.




Hi Guys,
Any suggestions on setting up the arbor press? I saw in the video that a steering wheel removal tool was used to locate the Freechex but the tool I looked at in harbor freight didn't look anything like the one in the video.... :-(

[Tom W.]

Thanks for the reply. All I bought it for was to punch out the checks. I didn't see a need for another "fixture", other than the plate that came with the press.

[Bob J]

Perfect! Thanks! ;)


The FreeChexII tool in 44 fits right over the narrow slot on the base of the HF 1-ton press. No fixture required.

[Ugly Dwarf]

Dale,

Thanks for posting that video. That seems a LOT faster than the hammer method... and a lot less prone to smashing fingers with a hammer.

On the downside, my wife's going to be upset with me for buying an arbor press. ;)

Dwarf

[Dale53]

Dale,

Thanks for posting that video. That seems a LOT faster than the hammer method... and a lot less prone to smashing fingers with a hammer.

Dwarf

Glad to pass information along.

Frankly, that video was the deciding factor for me. I have received my Free Chex II for .44 Caliber and will be making some checks in a couple of days for my recently acquired Lyman 431244 bullets.

I'll compare these with the old Lyman checks I had left from another project on the target...

Dale53

[.30/30 Guy]

I have a Freecheck in .44 caliber. I made some checks out of a pop can and fired them in my .44 mag. I found about half of the checks 10 feet in front of me. Need to use super glue to keep the thin material ones on your boolit.

[Dale53]

I have checked the local building supply dealers and found a variety of materials that should be suitable for Free Chex's at Home Depot Supply:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=aluminum%2Bflashing&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I got a couple of samples of material with my Free Chex II tool and will try them and see which works best with my bullets (I'm betting on the .009" thickness from Home Depot will be best) before I buy. However, those prices at Home Depot looks like we can make lots of gas checks for small change.

Dale53

[Charlie Sometimes]

Yep, they will save lots of money.

I doubt if the check falling off after it's out of the barrel matters.
It protects the bullet from gas cutting at jacked up velocities, and keeps the barrel from leading, but really isn't needed after that.
As long as accuracy isn't effected- who cares.

[BCall]

I have to say, I bought a Freechex in 6mm when I had trouble finding 6mm gas checks. I was less than impressed. The original required that you punch out the disk with a separate punch, then put it on top of a die and form it with a pin type punch. The problem was there was no precise way to center the forming pin on the disk. I got a bunch of wasted lopsided gas checks, and gave up on it.

But after seeing the video about making them with the Freechex 2, I decided to try again when I saw a 22 version of the Freechex 2 was listed. I bought it not hoping for much. After receiving it this week, it makes excellent checks with the aluminum he sent with the tool. It is .008-.009 roof flashing I think, and the checks I get out of it are darn near perfect. Here is a pic of the last 5 I punched out. I will probably get more of them now. I probably won't use them all of the time, but they will be nice to have if I need them. The checks fit most of my boolits nicely and work perfectly when sized. I have not yet had a chance to shoot them, but I expect good results. They look excellent. Thanks, Billy

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh259/blcall/SN850613.jpg

[qajaq59]

I have to say those look really good.
However has anyone been shooting enough of them in their rifles to know how they effect accuracy when compared to the Hornady's?

[Charlie Sometimes]

Nice work, Billy! Those look really good- try that AL lithe plate, too. It really cuts and swages good.

I'm still in various testing phases on the shooting side- so not much extra to report yet.
Getting ready for winter, hunting seasons, and working on college courses are keeping me busy, too.

Someone told me Mr. Darnall has raised his prices on the Freechexs.
I was considering getting a 6mm and 375 Freechex II next.

I checked E-Bay- they are still selling for 41.95 each. No price increase.

[Ricochet]

One thing that's kept me from trying these is that I have a lot of loads that put the crimped-on Hornady style checks below the bottom of the case neck. I've never had one fail to come out with the boolit when I've had to pull one. OTOH, I've often wished I could use as-cast unsized boolits with a gas check. It can be done to crimp on the Hornady styles with a Lee Factory Crimp die of appropriate diameter, holding the boolit in the top so the gas check is cripmed but the rest of the boolit is unsized, but it's a bit of a PITA. These slip-on checks will allow that. I haven't yet heard what the finished outside diameters of the checks are in the various calibers, whether they're made a bit oversized to allow/require sizing, whether the .30s are appropriately sized for "Fat Thirties" or just the .308s, if they work with the somewhat oversize diameters we often use in other calibers, etc. Probably depends on the material and thickness used.

[StarMetal]

One thing that's kept me from trying these is that I have a lot of loads that put the crimped-on Hornady style checks below the bottom of the case neck. I've never had one fail to come out with the boolit when I've had to pull one. OTOH, I've often wished I could use as-cast unsized boolits with a gas check. It can be done to crimp on the Hornady styles with a Lee Factory Crimp die of appropriate diameter, holding the boolit in the top so the gas check is cripmed but the rest of the boolit is unsized, but it's a bit of a PITA. These slip-on checks will allow that. I haven't yet heard what the finished outside diameters of the checks are in the various calibers, whether they're made a bit oversized to allow/require sizing, whether the .30s are appropriately sized for "Fat Thirties" or just the .308s, if they work with the somewhat oversize diameters we often use in other calibers, etc.


John,

I make my own gas check making tools. So far I have them for 22, 6.5, 7mm, 30, and 45. I use aluminum flashing from the hardware store for 22's up to 6.5, and thicker aluminum for 7 up to 30, and flashing again for the 45's that take a thin check. With that said my target backstop, which is railroad ties stacked to form a big letter C, filled with dirt, and one inch oak front. I have recovered many bullets with my checks still on them in all those calibers. I think the reason may be as the cup is formed in the forming tool the bottom of course is very true and clean, but the lip will get wrinkles or serrations if you on it and I believe these crimp onto the bullet. Another member said those serrations help clean/wipe lead out of the bore better.

Joe

[Ricochet]

Good point about the folds in the mouth of the check, which can be seen in the pics in this thread. May take the place of the crimp to a good extent.

[StarMetal]

Good point about the folds in the mouth of the check, which can be seen in the pics in this thread. May take the place of the crimp to a good extent.

I was quite shocked that I was seeing checks still on my bullets on the other size of that oak front. Especially with the HV 22's because they busted up pretty good in the dirt.

Joe

[Wally]

John,

I make my own gas check making tools. So far I have them for 22, 6.5, 7mm, 30, and 45. I use aluminum flashing from the hardware store for 22's up to 6.5, and thicker aluminum for 7 up to 30, and flashing again for the 45's that take a thin check. With that said my target backstop, which is railroad ties stacked to form a big letter C, filled with dirt, and one inch oak front. I have recovered many bullets with my checks still on them in all those calibers. I think the reason may be as the cup is formed in the forming tool the bottom of course is very true and clean, but the lip will get wrinkles or serrations if you on it and I believe these crimp onto the bullet. Another member said those serrations help clean/wipe lead out of the bore better.

Joe

I have the tool in the .22 & the 6mm caliber. I noticed that the 6mm gaschecks come out more even, with smoother edges than do the .22...using .009" aluminim flashing. Do you get the same results with yours? Seems it takes more effort to form the .22 check than the 6mm as well. I plan on experimenting with lightly wax lubing the aluminum to see if that helps.

[StarMetal]

I have the tool in the .22 & the 6mm caliber. I noticed that the 6mm gaschecks come out more even, with smoother edges than do the .22...using .009" aluminim flashing. Do you get the same results with yours? Seems it takes more effort to form the .22 check than the 6mm as well. I plan on experimenting with lightly wax lubing the aluminum to see if that helps.

Mine come out all the same regardless of caliber. I don't find much difference in effort. I'm working on a new tool that cuts the disc and forms the cup all in one operation.

Joe

[Ricochet]

A tool that would make the check in one step from the sheet would be awesome.

[Wally]

Glad to pass information along.

Frankly, that video was the deciding factor for me. I have received my Free Chex II for .44 Caliber and will be making some checks in a couple of days for my recently acquired Lyman 431244 bullets.

I'll compare these with the old Lyman checks I had left from another project on the target...

Dale53

Was wondering how they worked out. I have the same mold and plan on getting the tool in the .44 Calaber. The 431244 gives me bullets at .430" from WW metal...a bit too small for my RugerSuperblackhawk w/it's chambers throats at 431".

[StarMetal]

A tool that would make the check in one step from the sheet would be awesome.

I have it all drawn up. Waiting till I get some metal stock to make one. Few tweaks to do yet too.

Joe

[Wally]

I'd sure like to know how it would be possible..to be able to punch out the disk and form it into a gascheck cup with one stroke...I cannot fathom how that could be done.

I make my gaschecks in a small batch at a time, about 100..takes 15 minutes while I watch TV. In less than two weeks you have 1,000..that's as many as I'd use in a year.

[Dale53]

Wally;
I am out of town for a few days or so. When I return, that'll be my first project (just after trying out my "soon to be here" NOE 454424 mould). I WILL report my progress, however.

Dale53

[qajaq59]

I'd sure like to know how it would be possible..to be able to punch out the disk and form it into a gascheck cup with one stroke...I cannot fathom how that could be done. I'd like to know as well, so as soon as one of you guys figures it out put me down to buy one. lol

[mcooper]

Does he make a .45 caliber one? I'd like to make checks for my .45/70.

[mto7464]

The video for me was reason not to get one. One hour to make 400! I would much rather buy them.

[kelbro]

The video for me was reason not to get one. One hour to make 400! I would much rather buy them.

Funny, the video was why I DID get one. I seldom make more than 100 at a sitting. Buying a thousand didn't make much sense for a caliber that I will probably never shoot over 500-600 rounds of. Besides that, I couldn't find 44 checks at the time and I needed some right away.

I can probably sell the Freechex off quicker than a partial box of checks.

[Wally]

No big deal to spend a few hours making gas checks while watching TV... Since the tool costs roughly what one box of Hornady gas checks cost (full retail price)...if one uses a lot of gas checks, the tool will pay for itself in short order. I also think than many use bullets w/o gas checks to save on the cost. I am guilty of that and will be using them more now that I have the Freechex tool.

In my mind there is no doubt that a gas checked bullet is about as accurate a bullet as a acster can make. It may be true that a non-gas checked bullet can equal the accuarcy of a gas checked one, I think most would agree that you cannot go wrong using a gas checked bullet, particuliarly in the Magnum pistol caliber (.357 & .44) with full loads. I have proven to myself that for rifle loads, gas checked bullets are always more accurate in the .22, .243, 7mm, .30, & the 8mm rifle calibers.

[Dale53]

>>>I have proven to myself that for rifle loads, gas checked bullets are always more accurate in the .22, .243, 7mm, .30, & the 8mm rifle calibers.<<<

A number of Schuetzen bench rest shooters would disagree with you and they have the evidence to prove it:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/JimBortonsTarget.jpg

This target was shot by the retired Schuetzenmeister (Jim Borton) of the American Single Shot Rifle Association at 200 yards with a plain base bullet (a requirement of ASSRA). He has since had several better groups during registered matches. He is not the only one who has shot great groups at registered matches in the past couple of years.

I will go this far. I believe it is EASIER to get results with gas checked bullets and using rifles, you can certainly shoot higher velocity with target results but better? I don't think so...

Dale53

[Piedmont]

Not a fair comparison Dale 53, since those guys breech seat and therefor there can be no gas blow by. I'm inclined to agree with the man because you will note that even the blackpowder cartridge shooters, who are shooting some very fine groups, use base wads under their bullets (a type of gas check).

[Dale53]

Piedmont;
No one said anything about a FAIR comparison. The facts are, that plain base bullets CAN be as accurate as gas checked bullets. You just have to know how. Of course, if you are hunting, and need the velocity, then gas checks have it all over plain base bullets. Even then, if you are hunting deer at woods ranges (up to 150 yards or so) a 45/70 plain base bullet will do quite well for ANYTHING up to and including the big bears and Bison (ask the fifty million buffalo that were eradicated to "pacify" the Native Americans).

Don't discount fixed ammo and plain base bullets, either. There are those good people have learned how to do this, also. However, that is another thing all together.

I shot BPCR for 15 years in competition (Silhouette) and I shot both with and without a base wad. I decided that the base wad (my choice was LDPE) did help to eliminate flyers but it is NOT a gas check. The base wad did help to eliminate damage to the bullet base by primer driven powder particles (by actual bullet recovery tests - not theory). That is, if the base wad was at least .060" thick (thinner wads did NOT protect the base sufficiently in my tests).

We'll just have to agree to gentlemanly disagree:mrgreen:

Dale53

[Wally]

I have no doubt that many do as well with plain base cast bullets as gas checked ones; however with my loads and in my guns, I find that the gas checked bullets are more accurate. I did say that I have proven this to myself..and never meant to suggest that I did so for everyone else as well.

For those who have obtained acceptable accuarcy with plain base bullets all I can say is to keep up the good work!

[Piedmont]

Years ago Richard Hoch (the mould maker) wrote a series of articles on shooting plain base bullets in fixed ammunition in his custom rifles. He ended up having special tight-necked reamers and using base wads and I still don't think he equaled what his rifles would do with good gas checked bullets.

So if plain base are so good I challenge you to start winning cast bullet competitions with them against those using gas checks. And if plain base are so good why aren't they winning in the Cast Bullet Association matches? Competitors will use any advantage they can get.

[felix]

Anything less than breech seating, such as shooting a complete cartridge, gas checks cover up and/or partially prevent ignition and boolit exit problems. Give me a checked boolit anyday, BR gun or not. ... felix

[Dale53]

Piedmont;
I merely pointed out what IS being done at the ASSRA matches NOW! I am no longer going to challenge ANYONE with a rifle. Glaucoma has precluded me from ever again competing with a rifle (nearly blind in my right eye). My shooting is done with a handgun using my left eye and shooting right handed these days.

However, I WAS (the emphasis on WAS) a first tier rifleman in my day and thoroughly enjoyed a good competition. Oh, my past efforts ARE on record as my scores were "Shot in front of God and everyone" not with a word processor nor typewriter.

My last competitive shots were fired with single shot rifles at ASSRA matches and I never did quite reach the hallowed levels of a 250x250. However, there are several older gentlemen who ARE doing this with plain base bullets at the ASSRA matches on a fairly regular basis (yes, they are breech seated but the performance IS there).

I am not interested in continuing in a "pissing match" and merely reporting what IS being done in competition.

FWIW
Dale53

[felix]

Gas checks, Piedmont, are just another parcel besides the boolit that must make up the projectile. Now you have two things that must be perfect together as one ejecta. So, in all probability, the odds favor the naked boolit in the perfect gun. ,,, felix

[Wally]

I might add, most of us that shoot are casual shooters. I am and in most cases a PB cast bullet is good enough for my type of shooting. However I did buy a no. of pistol bullet molds of the gas check design to try them out just to compare and see if they are any better than a non-gas checked bullet. Frankly if the PB bullets were better, I would guess that few would bother with a gas check type. So far I have found the gas check bullets to be better especially in bottle necked rifle calibers. However the PB have worked remarkably well in my Lever action rifles (.357, .44 Mag, .444 Marlin, & the.45-70). I will have a graet time using some gas checked bullets next year in the .38 & caliber rifles just to see if I can shoot them more accurately when using gas chceked bullets.

[azhunter12]

Whats the difference in the .22 modified vs a normal. I've only ever seen a mod version. It mentions something about the Hornet but what would be the difference between that and a .223? Is it still suitable for .223? Sorry for the silly questions but I'm just getting into casting and want to find a cheaper source for checks but was confused by .22 modified.

[Tom W.]

Just for giggles I tried a check made from .014 aluminum from my .45 Free Chex II on a Lee C430-310 RF. It kinda covers up the bottom loob grove, but looks o.k. otherwise.

I can't explain the reddish tint....

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/OldeFarte/bullet.jpg

[BCall]

Whats the difference in the .22 modified vs a normal. I've only ever seen a mod version. It mentions something about the Hornet but what would be the difference between that and a .223? Is it still suitable for .223? Sorry for the silly questions but I'm just getting into casting and want to find a cheaper source for checks but was confused by .22 modified.

You might want to ask the guy who makes them, but I think the midified one makes a check with a little shorter side that better fits some of the boolits with a shorter gas check shank. Mine fits all of my 22 caliber molds fine and it was a modified one, so that is probably the only one he is making now. Billy

[Charlie Sometimes]

From the look of Charlie Darnall's posted pictures on E-Blah he has fixed it so you put strips in and can cut with different ram punches. Before, the set up used a hole punch to cut the disk and ram punch to form the disk. Quite an improvement, if that is what he did.

I don't know for sure- but, yea, contact him to find out details.
Might be worth updating mine!

They were $29.95 plus $4.95 S&H when I looked.

[Dale53]

Tom W;
The reddish tint in your picture is caused by the color of the light used to take the picture (incandescent?). Most digital cameras will allow you to set the "color temperature" to solve this.

I got back from my trip out of town and sat down to work with the Free Chex II in .44 Caliber.

The instructions leave a lot to be desired. As a result, my first efforts were totally unsatisfactory (I was trying to make the gas checks the wrong way). I went back online and watched the video a couple of times. I finally figured it out. The gas checks formed up perfectly. However, when I tried to install them on my Lyman 430244 Thompson bullet base, they were loose. Even with the "Maximum" thickness material that came with the tool. The real downside is that they only "mic" .428" which is .002" smaller than I size my bullets :groner:.

For those that don't have a tool, the first step is to punch out the disc, then you insert the mandrel and form the check. My problem is that when I use the thicker material (necessary to even approach the correct size) the gas check "sticks" on the mandrel requiring prying it off the mandrel before proceeding. This absolutely prevents any kind of production practicality [smilie=b:.

I have written Charlie and am waiting for his reply. If I could find thicker material and IF the tool would not be damaged by thicker material, and IF I could solve the "sticking on the mandrel" problem, this might be viable. I haven't, yet, given up on this and hope that Charlie can enlighten me.

My take, is that if I can solve the problems and indeed make 400 an hour, then it will be worth it to me. Otherwise, nadda...

Dale53

[BCall]

After going back a looking at the listing for the one I bought I think I understand what he means by modified. I the original Freechex 2, the forming punch was inserted in the middle of the die after cutting the disk.

In the modified one, you have to remove the plug cutter and then insert the forming punch. I assume all of the smaller calibers are listed as modified. Probably anything under 30 cal has too small of a plug cutter to run the forming punch down the center of it like in the larger calibers.

Here is the listing for the one I bought
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230380595185

If you read the last line I think it explains it.

FWIW, in the larger caliber I have no experience, but in the 22 one I have the checks are a little loose when formed, but are nice and tight after sizing in my LamII. They can be pulled off, and might fall of when firing, but they are tight enough I don't think that will happen. Billy

[kelbro]

My 44 FCII forms .012 copper to a snug fit. Doesn't stick on the mandrel. Give Charlie a call.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Your speaking of Freechex I and II as the same design.

The "1" is the one that has been modified, I think- all the smaller calibers from the looks of the pictures.
Probably should have been called "1A"
The "2" is still the same, I think.

I would think you could cut a disc out of the slotted metal with a tight punch that didn't go all the way down, then use a punch that did to shape the cup for end product.
Some one who knows more about machining dies might be able to tell if that is possible or not.

[BCall]

He is listing it as a Freechex II (modified). The Freechex one used a separate punch to cut out the disks, then you put them in the forming die. The II used the same die to cut the disc and form it, you just use separate punches. You're right though, it's really about a 1.5. Billy

[JeffinNZ]

DALE:
What is the diameter of the forming mandrel where the check is formed?
What is the diameter of the shank on the 430244?
What material and thickness of said are you using?
What is the diameter of the exit hole on the forming anvil?

Give me this info and I will try and help you out. I have spent a lot of time tinkering with both FC and FCII's.

[Dale53]

JeffinNZ;
I'll get you those dimensions tomorrow. FWIW, the material that was furnished was the thickest of two "swatches" at .015" aluminum. The gas checks are formed nicely. Just too small and they stick on the mandrel.

I have written Charlie but haven't heard from him yet (it IS over the weekend). Charlie may actually have a life apart from the Forum:mrgreen:

I'm sure I'll hear from him when he gets a chance.

Dale

[vonnieglen]

I posted the youtube video several months ago. I got an email from Charlie the inventor/manufacturer tonight. I thought it might include some useful information to some of those reading the thread. I have made thousands of the gas checks for my cast bullets. I have been very happy with the results.

Steve:
I wish I could inform your film critics (mere viewers) that the tool mandrel are extremely hard on one end. However, the 357, 44 and the 500 S&W have an almost in-perceptible difference from cylindrical drill rod from which they are made . In Some cases it is as small at .002" . The mandrel tip is hardened to guard against wear, and to especially keep virtually anything from sticking to it when extreme swaging takes place. I am certain some folks are using the mandrel upside down. It has taken a while to find your e-mail, thanks for your films too.
Charlie

[Dale53]

vonnieglen;

I am using the correct end of the mandrel (mine is noticeably different). If I hadn't been trained as a machinist (never did it professionally) I probably wouldn't have noticed it. The instructions need HELP.

FWIW
Dale53

[David Wile]

Hey folks,

I may be wrong on the correct names for Charlie Darnall’s gas check tool sets, but I think his original tool set was the Freechex or Freechex I. The original tool set consisted of a punch to cut a gas check disc, and an anvil and mandril to form the disc into a finished gas check. After punching out a bunch of discs, you would place each disc in the anvil, then place the mandril in the anvil atop the disc and strike the mandril with a mallet to form the disc into a finished gas check. Aluminum from soda cans were the most commonly used material for making checks with this tool set.

I purchased four of the original Freechex tool sets, and they were in .30, .357, .44, and .45 calibers. I found all four of these sets made perfectly fine gas checks from aluminum soda cans, and I have been using them since then. I use a nylon mallet for striking the disc punch and the mandril. You cannot use a steel hammer on the tool set parts that are hardened steel and can be shattered with steel on steel. I also cut my discs on a 1/4 inch thick hard rubber mat and also formed my gas checks with anvil and mandril on the same rubber mat which seems to give some cushioning to the process. After 18 months of use, my tool sets are still in perfect working order.

In Post 54, Bcall seemed to indicate he had a problem with his original tool set:

“The original required that you punch out the disk with a separate punch, then put it on top of a die and form it with a pin type punch. The problem was there was no precise way to center the forming pin on the disk. I got a bunch of wasted lopsided gas checks, and gave up on it.”

I might be wrong, but Bcall’s description sound exactly like my first attempt to use the original tool. I was having the same problem. Then I saw a picture of a mandril in the anvil, and I noticed that I was using the anvil upside down. When I looked at what I was doing and what I saw in the picture, the light bulb suddenly came on, and it was obvious how the anvil and mandril were supposed to be used. When I placed the disc in the correct end of the anvil, the mandril fitted perfectly and started to produce perfect gas checks. Maybe Bcall had a different problem, but his description sure sounded like my first experience. I had no problems with any of my tool sets after I figured out the first one.

I don’t know when Charley started producing his new Freechex II gas check tool (perhaps as much as a year ago?), but I first saw a video of a fellow using one on a Harbor Freight arbor press about three or four months ago. I was fascinated by the video and how it worked. Again there are three parts to the tool set, and they do the same thing (punch a disc then form it into a gas check), but it is a different design and a little bit easier to use than the original tool sets. In the new Freechex II, there is an anvil which is used for both cutting a disc and forming the finished check, a punch die to cut the disc in the anvil, and a mandril to form the finished gas check. Unlike the original Freechex which was designed to use aluminum from soda cans, the Freechex II is designed to use thicker aluminum like the aluminum coils that which can be purchased from Lowe’s or Home Depot for flashing.

The Freechex II works slick as can be, and it can be seen on various videos available on the internet. One starts by cutting coil stock aluminum into half inch wide strips. The strip is then placed in the slot of the anvil, and then the punch die is placed in the top of the anvil. At this point, the punch die can be pressed with an arbor press or simply struck with a nylon mallet. The punch die will cut a disc and hold the disk in place while the forming mandril is then inserted through the punch die and onto the waiting disc. A light rap with the nylon mallet (or using an arbor press) will form a finished gas check that will fall out the bottom. It is definitely slick.

I really had no need to buy the new Freechex II since my original Freechex tool sets worked just fine with free aluminum soda cans, however, I did get a Freechex II in .45 caliber for my 45-70 just to see how it works. Like the original Freechex tool sets, I started using the new one while sitting at a table, and I have come to the conclusion that I really do not need an arbor press. I simply use a small nylon mallet which you can purchase at Harbor Freight, and it makes beautiful checks. With either the original Freechex tool sets or the new Freechex II tool set, I can sit in my recliner chair and make gas checks while watching TV. For doing leather work, I have a polished marble block about 7 by 12 inches and three inches thick. I sit in my recliner with my marble block on my lap covered by my 1/4 inch thick hard rubber mat, and I make gas checks at my liesure.

I have found my gas checks to work well whether they are made from soda cans on the original Freechex or from aluminum flashing made on the new Freechex II. They all fit my bullets the same as the Hornady or Lyman copper checks I have uses for nearly 50 years. I believe the Freechex II is also designed to use a thin copper sheet, but I have not tried using copper since the aluminum flashing works so well. Yes, I still make gas checks with my original Freechex tool sets - other than the .45 caliber; I use the Freechex II for the .45s.

Charlie Darnall personally makes all the tool sets that he sells. Considering the rather small number of tool sets he sells, I would not be surprised to find his tool sets will be considered as prizes by collectors 25 years from now, much as Belding and Mull equipment is valued today. I may not live long enough to sell my Freechex sets for future premium prices, but in the meantime, I will be making great gas checks at a most reasonable cost.

I have never met Charlie in person, but I have talked with him quite a few times, and he is a very delightful person to know. He is very prompt to ship his product, and he is very responsive to the customer’s needs. If you have a question, give him your phone number and I will bet that he will call you within 24 hours. His tool sets actually work, they have been on the market for some time, and Charley does not have to make excuses for not delivering his product. When he advertises a tool set for sale on E-Bay, you can be assured that it is actually available right away, and if you purchase it, you can be assured that he will ship it by USPS Priority Mail for just the actual cost of shipping - no handling charges. You can’t beat that quality and service with a stick.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Big Dave]

I am a retired toolmaker and can probably make my own if someone has a sketch, photos or plans of these checkmaker tools. Far as that goes could develop my own design but really hate reinventing the wheel if I can avoid it. Was just on Midway looking at 44 cal gaschecks, Hornady was almost 40 dollars and Lyman close to fifty for something a high speed press will turn out at several hundred a minute. Reading some of these posts about these checkmaker tools being run with a hammer, why not with your loading press, should give a lot better controll. Post an answer or PM me.

[JudgeBAC]

Big Dave, check out this past thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=31987&highlight=Pat+Marlin+check+tool

This may be the information your looking for.

Looks like a pretty neat tool and apparently KTN is not interested in making them for sale.

[David Wile]

HeyBig Dave,

While I am not a tool and die maker nor a machinist, it would seem to me that both versions of Charlie Darnall's tool sets are fairly simple in mechanical concept once you have used them. To me, the difficulty in making such tools is in the actual machining knowledge required to take pieces of steel and turn them into actual precision tools that are then used by folks like myself. Since you are a toolmaker by trade, I would not be surprised to find that you could indeed make a fine tool set if you had one of Charlie's to use for learning purposes. I would suppose that virtually all new ideas by toolmakers are formed by toolmakers who have stood on the shoulders of another toolmaker who came before him.

As far as why I choose to use a nylon mallet to make my checks, I can do it while relaxing in my recliner chair watching TV. I have back problems and when at the reloading bench, I find it helps if I can alternate between standing and sitting on a stool while working. Even with the back aches, I do like my bench work.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[Big Dave]

Big Dave, check out this past thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=31987&highlight=Pat+Marlin+check+tool

This may be the information your looking for.

Looks like a pretty neat tool and apparently KTN is not interested in making them for sale.

Many thanks, lot of food for thought in that info. Years ago I made quite a few compound blank and draw dies for alum. brass and steel cups of assorted sizes. Have to give this some thought and trial, Not sure if wall thicknesses for a blank and draw this small will be strong enough for reliablility. Might be workable down to 30 cal. maybe even 25 cal.doubt if 22 is workable. We will see. Be nice to mount in the RCBS single station and get a compleate gas check with each stroke.
Anybody got blank disk diameters and finished cup diameters for different calibers?:cbpour:

[JudgeBAC]

Cast Bullet Gas Check Shank Sizes
Originally posted on Cast Boolits.com By:Felix <Reprinted with permission>

*Gator Gas Check Shank sizes

Max Shank Caliber Max Shank Caliber
Caliber

Diameter Description / Dimensions Caliber Diameter Description / Dimensions
.224 .214 .22 / .224 .410P1 .397 .41 Lyman (very thin)
.243 .233 .243 / 6mm .410P2 .378 .41 BSS, NEI, MM (very thick)
.257 .243 .25 / .257 .416 .393 .416 rifle normally
.264 .252 .264 / 6.5mm .430 .402 .44 /.430
.277 .253 .270 / .277 .452 .426 .45P/.452 pistol (thin)
.284 .250 .284 / 7mm .458 .426 .45R/.458 rifle (thick)
.308 .284 .30 / .308 .475P .445 .475 pistol (thin)
.323 .301 .323 / 8mm .475R .445 .475 rifle (thick)
.338 .327 .338 .500 .458 .50P / .500 S&W pistol / D> length=0.0800
.348 .320 .348 .512RL .466 .50R / .512 rifle (long) / D> length=0.0150
.358 .341 .35 / .357 / .358 / .360 .512RS .466 .50R / .512 rifle (short) / D> length=0.0800
.375 .354 .375


A> Outside Diameter Before taper

*Gator Gas Checks has no web site. They are a


B> Inside Diameter

manufacturer and deal in wholesale (for the most part).


C> Outside Diameter With taper

Gator Checks can be ordered through group buys at


D> Height

castboolits.com



E> Cup Thickness



Dave: Also look at the sticky about gas check shank size in the gas check subforum.

[doubs43]

This should look a bit more correct color wise:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/doubs43/bullet.jpg

[Tom W.]

Yes it does. Thank you.
I took the .454 Encore to the range yesterday and shot a few times while sighting in the scope. The bullets that I put the aluminum gas checks on that were made with my Free Chex II shot just as good as the ones that had the Hornady checks. The bore was nice and shiny when I finished shooting, too.

Just as an aside, I did look down the bore after each shot to make sure everything went out the front as it was supposed to.

[Big Dave]

Cast Bullet Gas Check Shank Sizes
Originally posted on Cast Boolits.com By:Felix <Reprinted with permission>

*Gator Gas Check Shank sizes

Max Shank Caliber Max Shank Caliber
Caliber

Diameter Description / Dimensions Caliber Diameter Description / Dimensions
.224 .214 .22 / .224 .410P1 .397 .41 Lyman (very thin)
.243 .233 .243 / 6mm .410P2 .378 .41 BSS, NEI, MM (very thick)
.257 .243 .25 / .257 .416 .393 .416 rifle normally
.264 .252 .264 / 6.5mm .430 .402 .44 /.430
.277 .253 .270 / .277 .452 .426 .45P/.452 pistol (thin)
.284 .250 .284 / 7mm .458 .426 .45R/.458 rifle (thick)
.308 .284 .30 / .308 .475P .445 .475 pistol (thin)
.323 .301 .323 / 8mm .475R .445 .475 rifle (thick)
.338 .327 .338 .500 .458 .50P / .500 S&W pistol / D> length=0.0800
.348 .320 .348 .512RL .466 .50R / .512 rifle (long) / D> length=0.0150
.358 .341 .35 / .357 / .358 / .360 .512RS .466 .50R / .512 rifle (short) / D> length=0.0800
.375 .354 .375


A> Outside Diameter Before taper

*Gator Gas Checks has no web site. They are a


B> Inside Diameter

manufacturer and deal in wholesale (for the most part).


C> Outside Diameter With taper

Gator Checks can be ordered through group buys at


D> Height

castboolits.com



E> Cup Thickness



Dave: Also look at the sticky about gas check shank size in the gas check subforum.

Thanks lots, the chart from Tom Myers has a lot of info in an easy format too. Now I just have to do something with it. Time is a little hard to come by this time of year what with getting in fire wood and all but that will be over eventually and when the snow gets deep time is easier to find.

[JudgeBAC]

Big Dave: Get that wood cut and in the house and when the snow gets deep let those gears grind and we can look forward to an exceptional check making die in the spring. Hope springs eternal after all.

[VintageRifle]

Just got my Freechex II 30 cal in the mail a few days ago. Tried it out tonight.

This could just be me, but I am not getting a complete round disk to make the check. When the check is formed, it has 1/2 moon cutout from the side that the check material fits up against. Anyone else run into this problem and have a solution?

[Black Wolf]

Make sure the material is pushed all the way in the mandrel otherwise it won't cut a perfect round circle.

[willyboy]

Man,I DON'T do Ebay,but I could go for a 8mm!

[JKH]

willyboy,

I have one of Charlies Freechex II tools in 8mm, it cuts beautiful gas checks! If you want one this is the only way you will get it ;^ )

Shameless plug; I still have .08" aluminum lith plate for sale that makes great checks, look for my post on the swap & sell section :^ ) It is coated material that is anealed and forms checks easily with Charlie's tools, for a bit more than a 1K box of factory checks you get enough material to make 16K homemade checks! (plus the cost of the tool).

Jeff