What I have is good enough! Why does my brain keep looking for things to change!?

[Daekar]

Thanks to the wisdom shared by members here, in the past few years my gun safe and reloading have both been totally transformed. I haven't bought factory centerfire ammo in years, and some of my guns have never seen a factory load. For the most part I'm all in on cast-friendly shooting and simple firearms. My needs, modest as they are, have been completely met.

Concealed carry pistol: S&W Model 60 3" (Revolver, 357 magnum)
Backup CCW/Plinking pistol: S&W Model 63 (Revolver, 22LR, with grip and sight identical to CCW)
Suppressed pistol: Kel-Tec P17 (Semi, 22LR)
General-use rifle: CZ-452 UltraLux (Bolt, 22LR)
General-use rifle: Henry H015 (Break, 357 Magnum)
Suppressed pistol: T/C Encore (Break, 357 magnum)
SHTF Rifle: m59/66 SKS (Semi, 7.62x39)
Varmint Rifle: Howa 1500 (Bolt, 223 Rem)
Full Power Rifle: m91/30, K31, k98k (Bolts, 7.62x54R, 7.5x55, 7.92x57)
Wife-friendly bedroom defense: Marlin Model 60 (Semi, 22LR)
Shotgun: CZ Redhead(?) (Break, 20ga)


As a guy who generally doesn't hunt unless there is a problem to be solved, there is nothing I need to do which is not addressed by this collection. I have no interest in long range hunting, so the fact that my full-power rifles aren't scoped doesn't bother me. If for some reason I need to go to Maine and shoot a moose, I'm pretty sure any of those military cartridges would work with the right bullet at iron-sight ranges.

Each gun that I reload for has a bullet and load already determined. I can shoot them all reasonably well.

Despite this, my brain is constantly suggesting things that I need to change or buy.

Should I have the barrel of the Henry cut down to 16" and threaded so it will accept my suppressor?
Should the suppressor live on that gun or on the Encore?
The deer in our area are so brazen that I could easily pop them with my Model 60 while doing outside chores, but my carry load for that is in the 38spl area, should I increase the power of the load I carry to address that possibility?
Should I increase the power of the load I carry because the cylinder only holds 5 shots?
Should I get a Kimber K6S 3" and go through the trouble to install adjustable sights so I have a J-frame sized gun with 6 shots?
Should I get a CVA Scout in 45-70 and buy the dies/molds for that? If so, how heavy should the bullets be? Is there a point if the 35-245P mold for my Encore does the job on deer?


Part of me feels like this is God's way of telling me I have too much free time to think.

[huntinlever]

As a terminal overthinker, I feel your pain. Sincerely. It's a constant war with me to say, my 45-70 is good out to 150 and my .338 WM good out to my maximum desired hunting range, loads are great as is, anything on the continent, and my son's 30-30 and 30-06, same. All, good to go. So, stop. I will always find something to change or buy to make it "better" even if it doesn't, or "better" is meaningless given my aims.

[Winger Ed.]

Should I get a CVA Scout in 45-70 and buy the dies/molds for that? .

Definitely.
I'd lean more towards a Marlin, but life is not complete until you have at least one .45-70.

Unless buffalo season comes back, I'd stay with boolits in the 350-ish range.
If ya start off with the heavier ones, it might take you awhile to figure out which end of the rifle is more dangerous than the other.

[huntinlever]

life is not complete until you have at least one .45-70.

Then, it's really not complete until you have a CVA Optima 2 in 50 cal, a closet full of BH 209 and mag primers, and, and, a completely new bowhunting arsenal and both .45 LC and .44 Mag Ruger, and, oh .45 ACP govt., and new turkey gun, and the .22LR Marlin and, um.....

[Electrod47]

I sorta worked out all my best loads for the 18 calibers, long guns, shotguns, pistols and revolvers. Still I seem to have a serious hang-up centered around my side arms, holsters and furniture on my various .22 rifles and semi auto's furniture. I have "at least" six sets of grips for each side arm. 6-10 holsters and gun belt rigs for each. Not to mention a plethora of red dots and do-dads for the .22's. Old man's Barbie Dolls.
Just spent an hour fitting a new set of grips for the .44 just arrived ( 3 month wait, suppose to be perfect fit???) Yeah, Right. I need an intervention.

[HWooldridge]

You're just working on "continuous improvement". It's OK to undergo changes that make life better.

[Froogal]

I pretty much already have what I might need for just about any situation that might present itself, but I have only ONE of each except for a double barrelled coach gun, and I don't have even ONE of those.

[cabezaverde]

No shotgun?

[pworley1]

You always meed at least one more.

[frkelly74]

I also have everything I will ever need, and more. More toys than I can ever play with given the everyday chores that I am tasked with. Plus I do not have the energy I used to have. But when something pops up like a K31 with a scope mount and all the load development done, ready to almost clean a 100 Yd target, I drool. No one gets younger.

[Daekar]

I pretty much already have what I might need for just about any situation that might present itself, but I have only ONE of each except for a double barrelled coach gun, and I don't have even ONE of those.

CZ makes a fine looking SxS with exposed hammers that I have been drooling over for years...

[Daekar]

No shotgun?

It's the bottom one, I almost forgot it!

[45workhorse]

Soooo, what you are really saying is, "LIFE IS GOOD"!
Enjoy it!!!!!!

[lar45]

I agree, you really need a 45-70,
Just one more ;)

[beemer]

Most of us here, especially us older guys got past the what you really need thing years ago. We like guns and to the last will see something we would like to try out. I was out this mourning and saw a couple that I think would be fun. I didn't buy anything but you never can tell what will pop up.

[Froogal]

No shotgun?

I have 3 shotguns, but I don't own a side by side coach gun.

[Froogal]

CZ makes a fine looking SxS with exposed hammers that I have been drooling over for years...

EXPOSED hammers!! YES!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Guys this Phenomenon is rampant among people who are anal retentive and/or perfectionists.

I have a very Simple Philosophy about Gun Ownership and Load Development.

I tend to buy mostly used guns, mainly so I can work on them and make them Run Better or Look Pretty. There have been exceptions, and I have bought a few New Shotguns and Rifles, and Pistols. The only new gun I am currently waiting for Ruglin to produce is an 1894 CB 20 Short Rifle in .44 Magnum which I will buy new. Probably the "Last" new gun I will ever buy. Never say Never.!:mrgreen:

Now on to loading, and please pay attention to this next part.

There is 2 kinds of accuracy. "Mechanical Accuracy" and "Practical Accuracy." They are NOT the same thing!.

With the first one you put the gun in a vise and shoot it, which will supposedly yield the absolute best accuracy of that gun and load. I have watched guys chase loads at the range trying to find the absolute most accurate load they can do,,, only to find out that they can't shoot well enough to be able to use it to it's fullest extent. IE: They can't out shoot the gun.

Practical Accuracy is what matters, and that is finding a load that shoots as well as YOU CAN! Considerations that need to be addressed are what type of gun it is (Some guns are inherently more accurate than others) and what it is going to be used for. As well as your expectations for that gun? And Your Physical Ability to shoot said gun.

I very seldom have had to go beyond the first load I try for any given gun. Example: For my Ruger Scout Rifle .308 win. I asked some guys what powder they used for .308 loads? they all said IMR 4895 or W748/BL-C2. Since I already had IMR 4895 I went to the Lyman Book and found a load of 45 gr. That is what I used, and it produced a 7/8" 5 shot group at 100 yards on the third group. First group was 1 1/4" and the second was about the same. I'm am officially good to go and I have not ever used any other load in that gun! Cast Boolit load for that gun is 16 gr of 2400 which is also good for the .30-06. Surprisingly I also load my .30-06's with the exact same load. Which was published as the "M2 Ball Load" for Garands. That gun shot a 4.5" 3 shot group at 500 M off a rest at Piru CA one day which I thought was pretty good shooting?

On my .45-70... I started with a 325 gr boolit (RCBS 45-300 RNGC) and 25 gr of 5744. This was going to be for Short Range Silhouette (50,100,150,200 Meters) and that produced a trajectory that was unsatisfactory so I bumped the charge 2gr. until I got what I wanted with Recoil that would allow me to shoot 50 rounds in a morning with only a Tee Shirt between me and the gun and not suffer any pain. I got to 33 gr and it did what I wanted, but just to be sure, I tried 35 gr which produced noticeably more recoil for no significant improvement in the trajectory, so I backed off to 33 gr and went to the bench to shoot a group. I shot a 5 shot group at 1 3/4" / 100 yards with the Lyman Receiver Sight the first time!(Acceptable Accuracy!) and then shot it at 150 and 200 Meters to get the Exact Elevation Offsets I'd need to dial into the rear sight for each stage of the game. The people watching thought 1 3/4" at 100 yards with iron sights was pretty good shooting from a Marlin 1895 CB26 Levergun? Done!

That happened in 2009! And nothing has changed on that gun since.

This all plates out as "One Less Thing to Think About While Trying to Hit Targets While Concentrating on the Shooting Side of the Game."

For my Pistol Loads I have relied heavily on Load Data published by Brian Pearce of Handloader Magazine. He has written Definitive Articles on some of my most favorite Cartridges and now he is a friend. My .44 Spec/Magnum are mostly from him, however my Magnum loads were settled on by 1978 long before I ever knew him. Side Note: Brian and his Sons Shoot more in one week gathering load data for the articles he writes, than the vast majority of us here shoot in Years, or in most cases our lifetimes. I consider him to be,,, "One that Knows!" Maybe a subscription is in your future?

The other thing that matters is "YOU!"

How well can you actually shoot? If the best you can shoot a 1" gun is 3",,, then you don't need to keep searching for a better load. You need to load up a bunch of ammo and go shoot something! Practicing Offhand and Field Position Shooting can be just as much, if not more fun, than sitting at a bench burning powder trying to eek out that last few thousandths of an inch.(Bench Rest Shooters excepted)

I do a lot of shooting with Pellet Guns in my Shop. I have several and they are set up with Iron Sights and Scopes and I shoot "Standing Up like a Man." This is to refine my Sight Alignment and Sight Pictures and work on Muscle Tone to actually hold the guns steady enough to make the shots I try. I find that the older I get, the harder it is to hold that gun steady so I try to shoot more to keep in shape. This is because the main type of Sport Shooting I do is either Short Range Silhouette or Full Range Silhouette both of which are done from the standing position. I also shoot some National Match which is done from Standing, Sitting and Prone Positions. But I sight the gun in at all ranges off a portable bench rest so I know exactly what the Elevation Offsets are going to be for each Range that get dialed into the Scope or Receiver Sight. You can't accurately shoot with a "Hold Over" since your Sight Picture will be different at every different range..

Note: I have been using the same loads for all of those guns for many years, and see no reason to change simply because they do everything I need and want.

I would advise that people reading this post have a good look at what they are trying to accomplish in their Shooting Hobby,, and find a load that does what they want,,, and then go shoot something!.

Randy

[AnthonyB]

I am an instructor for Project Appleseed. It is a history and American heritage program cloaked behind shooting instruction, but there are some real shooting truths to be found there.

Qualifying as a "Rifleman" with Appleseed requires 4MOA from field positions. Proper sling use highly encouraged, any other support not allowed. A Rifleman can control the "Rifleman's Quarter Mile" and a bit further.

That is my standard for when to quit working on the load and start working on me.
Tony

[charlie b]

I feel for you. About 10 years ago (I'm 70 now) I went through all my guns and decided on which ones I really didn't shoot or use. Started getting rid of them. Picked up some more that I wanted. About that time was when I decided I wanted to get serious about rifle shooting. Pistols were relegated to tools for self defense so I got rid of the 'extras' I had accumulated :) I don't like to 'plink'. Don't hunt. Don't go out in the woods. Live in a med size town.

We are down to my minimum. 4 guns are heirlooms. Then we have the wife's 45. My 9mm. My two rifles for paper punching.

I have still thought about buying some more and even came really close a few times, but, I just can't justify in my mind why I would buy something and then not shoot it or use it.

[Winger Ed.]

Then, it's really not complete until you have a CVA Optima 2 in 50 cal, a closet full of BH 209 and mag primers, and, and, a completely new bowhunting arsenal and both .45 LC and .44 Mag Ruger, and, oh .45 ACP govt., and new turkey gun, and the .22LR Marlin and, um.....

Once you get there, you might find yourself lusting for a single shot .50BMG.
I've had a couple, and they open up a whole 'nother world.
Plus, out in the country, they sing a song that draws all the neighbors for a mile or two around.

With a 240-ish gr. powder charge behind a 750gr bullet--- every time you pull the trigger, it's an event.

I reloaded for them, but never quite got around to getting the mold for casting the 750gr. SP.

[Daekar]

With a 240-ish gr. powder charge behind a 750gr bullet--- every time you pull the trigger, it's an event.

I reloaded for them, but never quite got around to getting the mold for casting the 750gr. SP.
For those times when you need to harvest the whole herd of buffalo in one shot as they stand at a watering hole...

[Winger Ed.]

For those times when you need to harvest the whole herd of buffalo in one shot as they stand at a watering hole...

I sort of regret selling them.
The great squirrel invasion could happen at any moment.

I know they're out there looking for any weakness they can exploit.

[45workhorse]

I am an instructor for Project Appleseed. It is a history and American heritage program cloaked behind shooting instruction, but there are some real shooting truths to be found there.

Qualifying as a "Rifleman" with Appleseed requires 4MOA from field positions. Proper sling use highly encouraged, any other support not allowed. A Rifleman can control the "Rifleman's Quarter Mile" and a bit further.

That is my standard for when to quit working on the load and start working on me.
Tony

Project Appleseed, is a good deal.
I shot the course a few years ago.
Outstanding history lessons during the two day challenging course of fire. I highly recommend it.

[charlie b]

Once you get there, you might find yourself lusting for a single shot .50BMG.
I've had a couple, and they open up a whole 'nother world.
Plus, out in the country, they sing a song that draws all the neighbors for a mile or two around.

With a 240-ish gr. powder charge behind a 750gr bullet--- every time you pull the trigger, it's an event.

I reloaded for them, but never quite got around to getting the mold for casting the 750gr. SP.

Fired a lot of .50cal in the Army. It was fun, especially when someone else is paying for it :) . The one gun that really got my attention was in a small town gun store I happened into. It was one of the old 20mm anti-tank guns (on a bipod, not wheels :) ). Came with 50 cases of brass and was only $2000!! I was REALLY tempted on that one. We had 20mm guns on our recon vehicles back years ago and they were a hoot (when they didn't jam).

[Winger Ed.]

It was one of the old 20mm anti-tank guns (on a bipod, not wheels :) ). Came with 50 cases of brass and was only $2000!!

Sounds like a WWII Finnish 20mm Lahti. They got sold off in the 50-60s, mostly in the US.
Ammo was drying up for them about the same time they got relisted as a destructive device.

Even if you could get one, and some modern generation 200 ammo (which even legally would be the hassle of your life)- it probably wouldn't work.
I think all our 20 mm stuff has a electrically detonated primer.

[sigep1764]

I personally think you should go down the AR rabbit hole. It's a lot of fun, pretty cheap to cast and load for, and pretty cheap to get into if you wanna build one.

[dverna]

Over a few decades, I satisfied all my wants. Then about 20 years ago I started looking at my needs. There was a huge disconnect. I started selling "useless guns" off. I invested much of the difference in components and .22 LR ammunition so I am "set for life".

I see two "holes" in your list. A couple of AR15's for if/when the SHTF. The other is a good air gun for cheap trigger time.

My list of guns is a bit more extensive as I am still selling stuff off I do not need. But here are my current "needs". I also believe in two of everything for redundancy.

Two Ruger MK III's
Two Kahr CW 9's for "light" carry
Two Glock 22's with added 9 mm barrel and mags for "heavy" carry
Two 696+ revolvers
.22 Anschutz bolt gun
Two 10/22's
Two Marlin 1984's in .357
Four AR 15's
Howa Mini-Mauser in .223
Two rifles in .308
Two .30/30 lever actions
Two PCP air rifles
Two PCP air pistols.
Beretta semi auto 12 ga
Winchester O/U 12 ga
Three Mossberg 500's

I could pare that down some but have not. I kept the .30/30's in case the AR's got banned, but I am getting too old to worry about that happening. Will "break the law" if needed. The AR's will go into "deep storage" in the "deep woods".

Nothing wrong with satisfying "wants" but first insure all your needs are met. Part of that "need" is enough components and/or ammunition to shoot for a very long time.

[elmacgyver0]

I never get rid of guns; I plan on leaving them to my nephews.
If they want to keep them, sell them or dump them in a creek somewhere, that is their problem.

[Daekar]

Nothing wrong with satisfying "wants" but first insure all your needs are met. Part of that "need" is enough components and/or ammunition to shoot for a very long time.
This is why my weird obsession with making changes is so frustrating. I am finally at the point where I can put resources into buying more primers, powder, etc., and that's really what I should be doing. The $1000+ I would spend on replacing my perfectly good Model 60 with a K6S would be far better spent on 22LR and reloading components.

The best thing I can for my shooting right now is to continue to exercise, and actually shoot more.

[Froogal]

I never get rid of guns; I plan on leaving them to my nephews.
If they want to keep them, sell them or dump them in a creek somewhere, that is their problem.

Same here. I offered to sell my barely used Marlin 30-30 to a young man who thought he wanted it. I priced it at 1/2 the price of a brand new 30-30. He counter offered at roughly 1/2 of my asking price. That was maybe 15 years ago. The rifle is still in my safe.

[dverna]

This is why my weird obsession with making changes is so frustrating. I am finally at the point where I can put resources into buying more primers, powder, etc., and that's really what I should be doing. The $1000+ I would spend on replacing my perfectly good Model 60 with a K6S would be far better spent on 22LR and reloading components.

The best thing I can for my shooting right now is to continue to exercise, and actually shoot more.

I have travelled your road and understand. My advice is buy components as you seem have the necessities well covered. A lot of folks do not want to invest in airguns, and I understand that somewhat. No boom or recoil...LOL. But there is no more cost effective way to develop/maintain skills than shooting airguns and they can be used almost anywhere.

From what I learned, my suggestion is a minimum 20 year supply of powder and primers before buying more "toys"...and they are "toys".

I used to shoot thousands of CF rounds a year. 99% were fired plinking or at paper targets. I do not kill many critters a year. If you use an airgun for 75% of your plinking/training needs it allows you to stock less powder and primers to reach that 20 year inventory goal. Something to think about anyway.

I can fire 10k pelletsa year for less than $200 with a PCP air rifle that shoots sub 1" at 50 yards. My PCP pistol shoots less than 1/4" groups at 10 meters. Using the lowest cost .22's it would cost $500 at todays prices for 10k rounds. And the pellet rifle/pistol is more accurate.

If I used .38 Spl loads for plinking it would cost $1300 to shoot 10k rounds with cast bullets, $70/k primers and $40/lb powder.

I do 75% of my shooting with air guns so I save about $800/year over shooting .38's. And the big plus for me with air guns; no policing cases, cleaning cases, casting, lubing, sizing or reloading....which are a waste of time for a shooter. Saving $800 is great but even better is I need less "stuff" to get to the 20 year supply if I only shoot 2.5k rounds of CF per year instead of 10k.

[Winger Ed.]

He counter offered at roughly 1/2 of my asking price. That was maybe 15 years ago. The rifle is still in my safe.

I've had a couple of those deals happen to me.
One time after I got the counter offer from a guy that thought I'd starve to death if I didn't sell a gun at his price:

As I was putting it back in and closing the safe, he said, "Hey,,, Why are you putting it away"?
I told him, "Well, you ain't going to buy it, and I'm not going to give it to you".

[W.R.Buchanan]

I agree with Don V on this one. I shoot my Airguns 10X more than all my powder burners combined.

My Range has been closed for the majority of this year due to heavy rains and flooding and we are going to get whacked again tomorrow by Hurricane Hildegard!

I have only been able to shoot my Airguns in my Garage and Hunt Ground Squirrels in my Front Yard. I have been shooting my .177 Springers at the Ground Squirrels as the shots are only 15 yards, adn my .25 cal. PCP makes too big a mess out of them!

I've got several new rifles that were projects that have come to fruition this year that I am waiting to shoot. Operative point is "Waiting to Shoot!" I don't have to wait to shoot my Airguns just walk 20 yards to the shop.

There are currently no Ground Squirrels to shoot because I already cleaned them out, and am waiting for "repopulation" to occur. There's that waiting thing again.

Randy

[Winger Ed.]

I already cleaned them out, and am waiting for "repopulation" to occur. There's that waiting thing again.
Randy

I had the same issue a few years ago with the water turtles and squirrels.
Now days, I leave a few for brood stock.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My "Repopulation" comes in from the across the street neighbors front yard that looks like a Mine Field !

Plenty more where they came from and is just a matter of a few days before they figure out the difference between dirt and Shangri La.

I could get my Limit on Quail in my Front Yard but unfortunately they are classed as "Wife's Pets." Same with Doves Pigeons and the Tree Squirrels.

Now Raccoons are fair game but I usually trap them and deport the to the top of the Lake up wind about 10 miles so they don't come back. They can make a good living off the Camp Ground Trash Cans so its all good.

Skunks are the biggest problem and I have to shoot them because there is no way to get them out of the trap without getting sprayed. There is always some leakage.

Randy

[WRideout]

I already have, by caliber, pistols in 45 ACP, 357 mag, 9mm para, 380 auto, 32-20, and 22 LR. Now if I just had a 32 auto, my life would be complete.

A friend is selling off a Fox Sterlingworth double 20 gauge, which I really want, and do not need at all. Wife says I can get it.

Wayne

[Froogal]

I already have, by caliber, pistols in 45 ACP, 357 mag, 9mm para, 380 auto, 32-20, and 22 LR. Now if I just had a 32 auto, my life would be complete.

A friend is selling off a Fox Sterlingworth double 20 gauge, which I really want, and do not need at all. Wife says I can get it.

Wayne

What does NEED have to do with anything?

[sigep1764]

If my wife ever says yes to a gun, I leave within 5 min

[charlie b]

My "Repopulation" comes in from the across the street neighbors front yard that looks like a Mine Field !

Plenty more where they came from and is just a matter of a few days before they figure out the difference between dirt and Shangri La.

I could get my Limit on Quail in my Front Yard but unfortunately they are classed as "Wife's Pets." Same with Doves Pigeons and the Tree Squirrels.

Now Raccoons are fair game but I usually trap them and deport the to the top of the Lake up wind about 10 miles so they don't come back. They can make a good living off the Camp Ground Trash Cans so its all good.

Skunks are the biggest problem and I have to shoot them because there is no way to get them out of the trap without getting sprayed. There is always some leakage.

Randy

We lived in the county for a while (15 years). Had a decent amount of property so could shoot air rifles and bow out in back of the house.

Wife decided it would be nice if she put out bird feeders. We got a quite a variety visit (the Rio Grande is a huge migratory route). Squirrels and chipmunks were a hoot to watch trying to get into the bird feeders.

Then a chipmunk died in her car's engine compartment. A month later and a rodent had eaten some of the wiring harness (a few hundred dollars to replace). After that she got rid of all the feeders and water sources. I had hunting to do to get rid of the squirrels (springer). Took about a year to get rid of all of them.

Glad to not be living there anymore. Only problem in the city is a small yard.

[Daekar]

We lived in the county for a while (15 years). Had a decent amount of property so could shoot air rifles and bow out in back of the house.

Wife decided it would be nice if she put out bird feeders. We got a quite a variety visit (the Rio Grande is a huge migratory route). Squirrels and chipmunks were a hoot to watch trying to get into the bird feeders.

Then a chipmunk died in her car's engine compartment. A month later and a rodent had eaten some of the wiring harness (a few hundred dollars to replace). After that she got rid of all the feeders and water sources. I had hunting to do to get rid of the squirrels (springer). Took about a year to get rid of all of them.

Glad to not be living there anymore. Only problem in the city is a small yard.

Yeah, we definitely don't feed the birds, there's really no reason to. They're all over the place and always have plenty to eat - like our blueberries and wild black raspberries, for instance...

We deal with rodents rather more aggressively, with multiple outdoor traps around the house and two perfectly-capable (but mostly lazy) cats who spend most of their time outside. My wife is soft-hearted in almost every circumstance, but mice and their brethren receive no mercy! That time they got into our kitchen cabinets... oh boy, the rage and ensuing Maoist purge was breathtaking.

[waksupi]

A month later and a rodent had eaten some of the wiring harness (a few hundred dollars to replace).

Pack rats! Around this area, you know it's a local if you see a camp with the hoods up on their vehicles. Pack rats don't like the light, and stay away. They will definitely eat the wiring out of a vehicle.

[charlie b]

Yep, we had a bunch of those too.

We also had mouse traps and rat traps around. No cats. The hawks would get them. They would also go after the pack rats but the rats were mostly moving at night and did not go far from cover. The loved the space under the storeroom floor.