Getting in In-Line Can you use a cast boolit with a sabot?

[kungfustyle]

Hello All,
I just drew a quota hunt for black powder and I'm looking at getting an In-Line Muzzleloader for the hunt. I have an older Kentuckey and Hawkins but they are cap and ball and haven't been overly reliable in the past. I've noticed that the bullets for modern In-Lines are $1 to $1.60 for just the leads. Wow! I've also noticed that the bullets are .452 with a sabot. So....is it feasible to get a .452 bullet and load it in a sabot as long as the weight is the same? I'm thinking something like https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-moulds/452-454/452-277-rf-bp6/452-277-rf-bp6-2-cavity-pb/ What's your input?
yes, my gun is a 50 cal.
I also have a Lee Real mold and may try that out. I've seen .430 and .452 sabots for 50 cal.

[Pipefitter]

The simple answer is yes!
I have harvested lots of deer with a .452 cast (or swaged) dead soft boolit in a sabot. Generally somewhere around 250 grains.

[triggerhappy243]

Hello All,
I just drew a quota hunt for black powder and I'm looking at getting an In-Line Muzzleloader for the hunt. I have an older Kentuckey and Hawkins but they are cap and ball and haven't been overly reliable in the past. I've noticed that the bullets for modern In-Lines are $1 to $1.60 for just the leads. Wow! I've also noticed that the bullets are .452 with a sabot. So....is it feasible to get a .452 bullet and load it in a sabot as long as the weight is the same? I'm thinking something like https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-moulds/452-454/452-277-rf-bp6/452-277-rf-bp6-2-cavity-pb/ What's your input?

you have a 50 caliber ?

[BLAHUT]

Yes;

[michael.birdsley]

yes i used a lee .452 250 grain mold with a black mmp sabot and 75 grain of 777 with my TC triumph bone collector


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[ShooterAZ]

You can shoot either 44 Cal or 45 Cal cast boolits in your inline using the proper sabots. I have a T/C Impact and have been using the RCBS 44-250-KT with good results. I already had the mold, so I just ordered up some sabots from Midway. It's a real thumper.

[kungfustyle]

Great thanks. When I get my supplies in I'll post my results. I have some hp plated 45 acp's that are .451 and a 300g 44 cal mold that I'm getting some sabot's for. Very cool rabbit hole.
The BC of the Lee REAL is .366 and the .430 mold is .246

[dondiego]

Hello All,
I just drew a quota hunt for black powder and I'm looking at getting an In-Line Muzzleloader for the hunt. I have an older Kentuckey and Hawkins but they are cap and ball and haven't been overly reliable in the past. I've noticed that the bullets for modern In-Lines are $1 to $1.60 for just the leads. Wow! I've also noticed that the bullets are .452 with a sabot. So....is it feasible to get a .452 bullet and load it in a sabot as long as the weight is the same? I'm thinking something like https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/bullet-moulds/452-454/452-277-rf-bp6/452-277-rf-bp6-2-cavity-pb/ What's your input?
yes, my gun is a 50 cal.
I also have a Lee Real mold and may try that out. I've seen .430 and .452 sabots for 50 cal.

If you are having reliability issues with the Kentucky and the Hawkins rifles, you will probably have reliability issues with an inline as well. Kentucky's and Hawkins reproduction rifles are extremely reliable rifles.

[LAGS]

What type of reliability issues did you have ?

[45workhorse]

:popcorn:

[triggerhappy243]

great thanks. When i get my supplies in i'll post my results. I have some hp plated 45 acp's that are .451 and a 300g 44 cal mold that i'm getting some sabot's for. Very cool rabbit hole.
The bc of the lee real is .366 and the .430 mold is .246

sending you a pm.

[kungfustyle]

The Kentucky and Hawkins rifles would shoot fine on a range day. No problems at all. When hunting in Florida at the end of the day I would fire off the gun to unload and would get a very week spit out of the bullet. I don't know if it was the humidity or powder going bad. I was using true black powder. After that incident, I put the gun away and haven't hunted with it. The powder shoots great if its just a range trip. I have 777 and Pyrodex RS and Black, but all I do is take the guns to the range for a shoot. I may retry and experiment with the others, but I wanted to try an inline with a scope for this trip.

[centershot]

I've found that the sabot rounds fit very tightly and as such, require a good stiff push to seat them on the powder. I switched to Powerbelt bullets for my inline, as, or more, accurate than sabots and very easy to load. The caplocks still get a patched round ball.

[kungfustyle]

The pita is the cost of each of the powerbelt and sabot store boughts is the cost. No reason a projectile should cost more than a loaded round. My goal is to get two to three inch groups with out the powerbelt's.

[725]

For sure. Check out "MPM". They make and sell bulk sabots of various types to marry up with the bullet you choose to shoot. Several types available. Just look over their web site. A cast boolit works just fine when launched from a sabot. The manufacturers rate of twist will probably be the most important factor when selecting a bullet weight / type. Good luck.

[BamaNapper]

I've been shooting the Harvester high pressure sabots with 250 gr .429 SWC cast boolits. I haven't used them for hunting yet, but they are proving to have good accuracy at the range. They are giving me consistent 3" groups at 100 yds with 80 gr of Pyrodex RS. I assume any decent sabot would give comparable accuracy. I've tried a couple different types and can't tell a difference. I got somewhat better groups from the Hornady SST and 2x50gr pellets, but as you say, the cost keeps me from using them as range ammo. The sabots run about $.20 a shot, and I consider the cast boolits free as they're made from berm scrap. When it comes time for hunting season I'll cast up a batch with pure lead and make sure they are holding their accuracy. I'll probably also bump up the charge a little for added punch, but these smaller Alabama deer really wouldn't require it. I'm shooting a TC Pro Hunter FX.

As mentioned, the sabots can be a little tighter to seat, but not hideously so. The added benefit of using the sabot is not having to deal with lube. I hunted the last few years using the Hornady SST, and I will have to admit it's been a huge convenience being able to carry a few extra shots in my shirt pocket pre-loaded with the 777 pellets. I'm going to miss that convenience.

[Maven]

Here's a link to MMP sabots. I've used the green HP ones in my Knight Bighorn with either the Lyman or RCBS Keith CB and was quite happy with their accuracy @ 50 yd.

Here's the missing link: https://mmpsabots.com

[Wheelguns 1961]

I have a 50 caliber inline, and have taken many deer using one of my cast .452” powdercoated cup point 315 grain bullets in a sabot. These are the same bullets that I load for my 45 colt blackhawk, cast from 50-50+2%. Judging from the diameter of the exit holes, I am getting good expansion. I have not recovered any bullets.

[Richard66]

I shoot maxi balls from my inline and my traditional rifles as well. You may want to try them also they are very accurate in my guns

[choctaw/creek]

The Kentucky and Hawkins rifles would shoot fine on a range day. No problems at all. When hunting in Florida at the end of the day I would fire off the gun to unload and would get a very week spit out of the bullet. I don't know if it was the humidity or powder going bad. I was using true black powder. After that incident, I put the gun away and haven't hunted with it. The powder shoots great if its just a range trip. I have 777 and Pyrodex RS and Black, but all I do is take the guns to the range for a shoot. I may retry and experiment with the others, but I wanted to try an inline with a scope for this trip.

Is there any chance that your powder charge had been fouled by oil or bore cleaner from the last cleaning? You didn't have any problems at the range so I was curious. Blackpowder will attract moisture from the air but I can't see how it could foul out within a days time. Be sure and post your findings as you try other solutions. It would be great if you could get the rifles that you already have to perform reliably for you.

[stubshaft]

Most definitely! I generally shoot 44 caliber boolits out of my Knight 50's and Tewksberry.

[FergusonTO35]

So, I'm having a problem. My Traditions Pursuit XLT is not getting along with 200 grain Lee .44 RNFP boolits in Harvester sabots and 80 grains T7. No accuracy whatsoever, as in like 5-7 inches between shots at 60 yards. I'm not much of a marksman, but I'm not that bad! Could the 1:24 twist be too fast for this rather light boolit? Should I bump up the charge to 100 grains?

[Edward]

So, I'm having a problem. My Traditions Pursuit XLT is not getting along with 200 grain Lee .44 RNFP boolits in Harvester sabots and 80 grains T7. No accuracy whatsoever, as in like 5-7 inches between shots at 60 yards. I'm not much of a marksman, but I'm not that bad! Could the 1:24 twist be too fast for this rather light boolit? Should I bump up the charge to 100 grains?

Nope just use a bore rider sabots not needed /along with a Dura Felt wad over the p0owder to protect the base (it steers the bullet) !!
and get a 400 gr+ bullet/Ed

[FergusonTO35]

Ok,so you mean I should switch to a conical boolit?

[35 Rem]

I use the Lee 310 grain 44 bullet (.429) and two 777 50 grain pellets with Harvester sabots in my NEF 50 caliber muzzle loader. It shoots well under 3 inches at 100 yards and as far as I'm concerned this is my muzzle loader deer season load for life. Not sure about velocity but figure/guess it's something like 1,600 ft/sec. I did use a 200 grain 40 caliber TC jacketed bullet for years but decided to no longer be dependent on availability of a factory-made jacketed bullet. Both bullets load very easily with very little force on the ramrod. Maybe it's because I leave a coat of Bore Butter in the barrel after cleaning??

I've only killed one deer with it so far using this cast bullet so not a lot of experience there but who really doubts how well a 310 grain 44 bullet will kill deer?

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks alot. Now that I think about it, I was using sabots that had been in tight fitting speed loaders since last year. Mebbe that compressed the sabot enough to make it undersize?

[CastingFool]

I use 50 cal forester sabot on my inline, I've noticed bevel base bullets fit better in the sabots. Flat base bullets make the sabot bulge out

[FergusonTO35]

Hey, does the T/C 370 grain Maxi Bullet tend to shoot well out of modern fast twist inlines? I wouldn't push it too hard, maybe 70 grains of T7. I have a line on this mold for a very good price and wonder if anybody has tried it in an inline.

[FergusonTO35]

Went ahead and bought it. Very nice condition with a new set of Lee handles for $35.00 bux total!

[metricmonkeywrench]

Been toying with my in-line and cast bullets… the secret is use wads with cast bullets! It more or less has to do with the slightly oversized bores and faster twist rate of a modern inline.

Powerbelts work great, though they are supposed to. About all of the sabots also worked well for me. I went BH-209 and never looked back.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?453297-Disappointing-day-50-CVA-Wolf-with-cast-boolits

[Loudenboomer]

Harvested a lot of deer with the swaged Hornady 240 SWCHP in a sabot.

[FergusonTO35]

Been toying with my in-line and cast bullets… the secret is use wads with cast bullets! It more or less has to do with the slightly oversized bores and faster twist rate of a modern inline.

Powerbelts work great, though they are supposed to. About all of the sabots also worked well for me. I went BH-209 and never looked back.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?453297-Disappointing-day-50-CVA-Wolf-with-cast-boolits

Thanks. So, just any .50 cal.wad will work? Should I glue it to the bottom of the boolit? Or just put it under the boolit at the time of loading?

[archeryrob]

I just shot two last Thursday in early muzzleloader season. A buck and doe and the bullet on both entered the left side and stopped on the skin at the right side with no exit wound. I use the Lee 452-255-RF 6 cavity mold to cast my bullets and I size them to .452 and I tried it without sizing and no consistency. I figured the sabot would make up for that, but no. Once sized they fly great. The pure lead kills great, but no exit hole and less tracking blood.

I cast some more test bullets from wheel weights (10 bhn) and some half and half mixed allow (7-8 bhn) and plan to try them in December and water test them to compare against what the lead did. The one I shot into a barrel looks just like the one recovered from my buck. Story and pictures are here. https://archeryrob1.wordpress.com/2023/10/23/early-muzzle-loader-2023/ and data on expansion of new alloys to come later on.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Thanks. So, just any .50 cal.wad will work? Should I glue it to the bottom of the boolit? Or just put it under the boolit at the time of loading?

Based on a recommendation of another member I used .54 cal wads dry. I put the wad in the barrel first and pushed it down about a bullet length with the bullet starter to ensure it was flat across the bore until the bullet picks it up for the rest of the journey down the barrel.

Hope this helps

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks so much, will give it a try.

[charlie b]

If shooting full caliber slugs I strongly recommend the use of at least a lubed felt wad and lube the bullet. I go an extra step and put a card wad over the powder, then the lubed felt, then the bullet. The bullet is cast soft and is sized to just slip in the bore. If hunting you might want it a hair bigger to slightly engrave. That way the bullet won't move if you carry the rifle with the muzzle pointed down.

The various factory slugs all seem to work. I like the Great Plains bullets for my .50cal. They like a stout charge behind them, ~100gn black (or equivalent). FWIW, slugs do better with a faster twist. Most inlines will be ok. Beware, that load has a stout recoil even in my 9lb rifle.

My other preference is for paper patched bullets.

[35 Rem]

I just shot two last Thursday in early muzzleloader season. A buck and doe and the bullet on both entered the left side and stopped on the skin at the right side with no exit wound. I use the Lee 452-255-RF 6 cavity mold to cast my bullets and I size them to .452 and I tried it without sizing and no consistency. I figured the sabot would make up for that, but no. Once sized they fly great. The pure lead kills great, but no exit hole and less tracking blood.

I cast some more test bullets from wheel weights (10 bhn) and some half and half mixed allow (7-8 bhn) and plan to try them in December and water test them to compare against what the lead did. The one I shot into a barrel looks just like the one recovered from my buck. Story and pictures are here. https://archeryrob1.wordpress.com/2023/10/23/early-muzzle-loader-2023/ and data on expansion of new alloys to come later on.

Looking forward to your test results.

[archeryrob]

So I filled the barrel up at lunch time and shot off a few round.

Previous lead bullet - .933 wide on largest spot - 252.44 grains
1/2 and 1/2 bullet - .807 widest spot - 257.72 grains
Wheel Weight bullet - .769 widest spot - 254.66 grains

So below,
Left - Pure lead and what I use that did not exit.
Center - 1/2 and 1/2 lead 7-8 bhn
Right wheel weight allow - 10 bhn
319296

[35 Rem]

Interesting that weight retention is practically 100% for all 3, they just curl back more or less. The 50/50 should add enough penetration to get 2 holes for better blood trails.

I've used 50/50 CoWW/pure to cast the Lee 310 grain 44 bullet and fired it in my 50 cal muzzle loader with a sabot on top of two 50 gr Hodgdon 777 pellets. I don't recall if I tested them up close or not but I did some water jug testing at 100 yards and they expanded somewhat less than your WW bullet on the right.

Oh yeah, if I hadn't seen the photo where the lead flowed between the petals of the sabot I wouldn't have believed that could ever happen.

[FergusonTO35]

Well a buddy gave me some .44 factory slugs to try, 240 grain Hornady. Also gave me some 240 and 260 grain cast slugs. Hopefully can try 'em soon.

[FergusonTO35]

The Maxi Bullet mold arrived and I poured a few handfuls of boolits with it. They turned out quite nice and weigh a bit over 360 grains. I don't think this mold was used much at all. Wonder what a good charge of T7 would be? I was thinking 60 grains to start out and go up in five grain increments. If I could get Trapdoor .45-70 speed level and decent accuracy I would be happy

[Richard66]

As I said earlier the maxi shoot great in my inlines and sidelocks.You will be fine

[rickt300]

The Maxi Bullet mold arrived and I poured a few handfuls of boolits with it. They turned out quite nice and weigh a bit over 360 grains. I don't think this mold was used much at all. Wonder what a good charge of T7 would be? I was thinking 60 grains to start out and go up in five grain increments. If I could get Trapdoor .45-70 speed level and decent accuracy I would be happy

One thing for sure cast them of as close to pure soft lead as you can get. They get way too hard to push down the barrel with anything harder. I used that bullet for a while and have to say it did the job well. I used 80 grains of 3F in a TC Renegade. I would bet 60 grains of T7 would kill and shoot just fine.

[rickt300]

I just shot two last Thursday in early muzzleloader season. A buck and doe and the bullet on both entered the left side and stopped on the skin at the right side with no exit wound. I use the Lee 452-255-RF 6 cavity mold to cast my bullets and I size them to .452 and I tried it without sizing and no consistency. I figured the sabot would make up for that, but no. Once sized they fly great. The pure lead kills great, but no exit hole and less tracking blood.

I cast some more test bullets from wheel weights (10 bhn) and some half and half mixed allow (7-8 bhn) and plan to try them in December and water test them to compare against what the lead did. The one I shot into a barrel looks just like the one recovered from my buck. Story and pictures are here. https://archeryrob1.wordpress.com/2023/10/23/early-muzzle-loader-2023/ and data on expansion of new alloys to come later on.

Loading some of these up to use this year. Need a light load as I broke a rib and can't take much of a rocking from recoil. May even use only 60 grains which is my practice load. Casting mine from range scrap.

[725]

FWIW, I use 80 grains of FFg Tripple Seven with the maxi. No problems so far.

[rickt300]

So I filled the barrel up at lunch time and shot off a few round.

Previous lead bullet - .933 wide on largest spot - 252.44 grains
1/2 and 1/2 bullet - .807 widest spot - 257.72 grains
Wheel Weight bullet - .769 widest spot - 254.66 grains

So below,
Left - Pure lead and what I use that did not exit.
Center - 1/2 and 1/2 lead 7-8 bhn
Right wheel weight allow - 10 bhn
319296

I cured my issues with penetration by lowering the powder charge to 70 grains. That bullet shoots great in my rifle for sure.

[white eagle]

pretty much make sabot's for most 54, 50 and 45 cal bp rifles
you can use what ever type of bullet you want as long as the fit in the sabot is correct
personally I use a 40 cal and use no sabot
I shoot an Accurate Molds design and powder coat and have had good luck as long as I don't push it