Ruger Redhawk & hunting accuracy [Archive]

Brl

02-11-2009, 06:27 PM

9.3X62AL

02-11-2009, 06:59 PM

Brl--

Your concerns about hunting accuracy show you to be conscientious hunter and shooter. I have a Redhawk x 5.5", and any error my revolver makes at distance is entirely my doing. Mine is a well-dimensioned, good-shooting machine.

Some questions for ya--

Do the grips fit you well?

Are you careful to grip the revolver EXACTLY the same, shot to shot? Same grip tension, same hand location, same stance, EVERY TIME?

Is the recoil of this caliber beating you up? This induces both flinch and premature fatigue.

Is sight picture/sight alignment exactly the same, shot to shot? Properly aligned sights 1/4" off target center at time of firing will strike 1/4" off target--improperly aligned sights will shift ZIP Codes downrange.

DanWalker

02-11-2009, 09:07 PM

hmmm......
Here's something to try.
Set out a LARGE target. Something with a huge bullseye.
Then, when you shoot at it, focus on your front sight and it's alignment realative to the rear sight. Don't concern yourself too much with where you are aiming on the humongous bullseye.
Just try to set the big ol' fuzzy bullseye right on top of your crystal clear front sight.
This will let you know if you're not focusing on sight alignment enough.
Another drill me and my shootinig buddy do is to load each other's revolvers. He doesn't tell me how many live rounds are in my gun, and he mixes them up in the cylinder too.
This will CLEARLY show you if you have developed a flinch.
I hope this helps.
Please let us know what you figure out. I can probably learn something from your problem too.

Bret4207

02-11-2009, 09:22 PM

I have that problem too. It's my eyes. There's a huge difference between shooting at 7 and 15 yards and 50 or 100 yards. I have a real hard time focusing on the front sight like I should. My one scoped pistol helps take care of that and oddly a couple of my guns with very wide front sights make it easier.

Some of the guys here, Carpetman and Dale I think, have some info on what to look for in glasses.

Brl

02-11-2009, 09:32 PM

Thanks guys for the quick response.

I feel that I am not recoil shy with that gun as I too have done the empty cylinder trick years back when I was first starting out. And, I've been shooting that gun for years. One of my most accurate loads (at the 15 yard range) is a 275 grain @ 1,355 fps...not a real mild load, but I shoot it the best. Something that I did do was change the grips about 2 years ago and I don't really like them. They are Hogue grips with the finger grooves but there is really no palm swell for my hands. It almost feels like I am holding a deck of cards in the palm of my hand. I keep the sight picture the same during trigger squeeze but could have been shakey due to the 150 rounds of .45 ACP and 9MM prior to that. Now thinking back, I could start to add to the list of possibilities of poor accuracy on my part.

I would like to start practicing more at those ranges and out to 75 yards...EVENTUALLY. I should probably begin with that gun and a good load that I know is accurate at 7 or 15 yards? Or, even limit my range session to that firearm alone? Are you guys believers in dry firing? Should I practice at those distances in my back yard when unable to go to the range?

Thanks again!

FN in MT

02-11-2009, 10:36 PM

Frankly.....I think your .44 loads are too hot...your probably flinching or being sloppy* with the trigger.

Load some 200-250 gr slugs up in the 800-900 fps area and try again.

Believe me you do NOT need a 275 gr slug at nearly 1400 fps for ANY deer in NA. Thats an ELK or MOOSE load.

* I'm NOT trying to be derogatory here....couldn't think of a better term...Sorry.

FN in MT

Heavy lead

02-11-2009, 10:50 PM

I have never been a very good handgun shooter, I always considered myself a good rifle shooter, almost any day with out too much thought or a lot of practice. I have to shoot handguns a lot to get acceptable accuracy with them so I do. I have taken advice from 44man and never shoot my hunting revolvers at less than 50 yards, and some days quite frankly it depresses me but I do it and keep improving, as a matter of fact I even shoot my snubbies at no less than 25 yards now and it is helping me a lot. On my Ruger hunting revolvers that are not scoped I have switched to the one ragged hole peep sights and it has helped my accuracy immensly. I have a Redhawk as well and come to really like Badger finger groove grips for this, they are big and seem to fit just right and handle the real heavy loads great and the Skeeter loads feel like my k 38.

targetshootr

02-11-2009, 11:01 PM

Dry firing can make a lot of difference practicing at home and before you load it at the range. My Redhawk takes so long for the hammer to fall I could sip coffee if I wanted. Also, try a few shots offhand at 15 yards, then 25 to get a bead and see if you're pulling shots, and the rest at 50 yards. Once l get a feel for the trigger and elevation l do best sitting and shooting offhand.
If your eyes are old as mine try one of the peep sights that stick to your glasses.

Dale53

02-12-2009, 12:55 AM

The best suggestion I could make to improve your scores with a heavy handgun is to get an optical sight (scope or Red Dot). You don't have sight alignment to worry about just put the crosshairs or dot on the target, release the trigger without moving the gun and follow through.

I have Red Dots on most of my revolvers (I am 73 and have serious vision problems). With the Red Dots I am as good as I ever was, and that's not bad.

I have a 7.5" Red Hawk and it has a Leupold scope on it. I have taken several deer with it. Really practical hunting revolver.

Dale53

jack19512

02-12-2009, 06:52 AM

The best suggestion I could make to improve your scores with a heavy handgun is to get an optical sight (scope or Red Dot).

That's what I had to do with my Ruger SRH .454 Casull. I have been blaming my poor handgun shooting on my reloads, my cast boolits, etc...etc... and I have got to the point where I think my major problem is with my vision.

Brl

02-12-2009, 09:25 AM

All good points gentlemen, thank you. I do have a red dot sight on an AR that I don't shoot much anymore. It wouldn't take much to try that.

The loads I was shooting that day we're pretty soft, 240 grain @ 1250 fps. It wasn't the 275 grain Golden Saber's that I shot so well at 7 & 15 yards in the past. I do agree that those are unnecessary for deer. I had a surplus of those from years ago and don't have anymore anyway. I'll probably load a 200 - 240 @ about 1,000 - 1,100 and experiment with accuracy on those.

One last question and then I'll leave everyone alone.

If I shoot a load accurately (find the most accurate load) at the 7 and 15 yard mark, should I assume that the same load will be the most accurate at the 30 and 50 yard mark?

Thank again guys!

MT Gianni

02-12-2009, 09:37 AM

Brl, don't leave us alone we like to think. I think that your most accurate load at 50 yards will generally be the most accurate at 15yards. I can't say for sure that the reverse is true but it still should not be the reason for 10" groups. 7 yards may find you with some lack of stability that would show up at 25 or longer. Keep at it. Gianni

44man

02-12-2009, 09:44 AM

I've been shooting handguns for about 20 years now. However, I'm no competition class shooter. I do my part at the range several times a year. I mostly shoot (when handgunning) one of several .45 ACP's, my .38 snub carry gun and my Ruger Redhawk in .44 mag I hope to hunt with one day...I've been telling myself I'm going to hunt with that handgun for 15 years. Well, the other day at the range I shot that Ruger at 30 yards. I have usually shot it at 7 and 15 yards with all my other handgunning over the years and have been able to keep my shots inside the 9 ring with any factory ammo. I went to the 30 yard range because it was the only spot open. I couldn't even keep all my shots in the 8" target circle...even resting the strong hand on the table. Now, this hand gun has seen a lot of range time with me and I am very comfortable with this gun. I assume it's me and not the gun. Or, could it be the gun? Could it just be that I've not practiced at this range? What should be my next step to remedy this AND how should I be practicing at longer ranges? Any tips and suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!!
Could you give us all the info? Boolit, powder, primer, dies used, and throat, bore and boolit diameter? Also lube.
I will not say it is you yet because the Redhawk is fussy unlike the SRH. Loads that a SRH and SBH love, sometimes will just not work in the RH.
We had that problem years ago with friends trying to shoot IHMSA with RH's. They would spray my loads for the SBH and S&W that would stay in an inch, down to 1/2" at 50 yd's.
It just takes more testing and work to get a RH shooting.
The SBH can be a pain, shooting tight one day and groups opening the next. The SRH seemed to group all of the time, I think it is the best revolver Ruger makes.
The RH WILL shoot but you need to find what it likes. I can only help a little because I never owned one, not after seeing the work they took.

Willbird

02-12-2009, 09:47 AM

I think you are just seeing what size groups you fire at 30 yards :-). I would not even begin to try to develop a load for accuracy at 7 or 15 yards. A "good" load shoots between 1" and 2" at 25 yards, at 15 yards it should group .6 to 1.2". It is easier I think to measure a larger group at a longer distance.... .6 is just a fuzzy rathole in the target

Focus on the front sight is the most important fundamental, and the one we seasoned shooters learn early on and promptly even forget we are doing it, we remember when we teach a new shooter.

I think far far too many people these days shoot at too close a range, bullseye shooting is not the perfect discipline to learn hunting or self defense accuracy, but it does teach you that you can hit things 50 yards away.

Don't be afraid to back the targets up a bit, one range where I used to shoot a lot the covered firing point was 50 yards, there were benches there, so I just shot from 50 yards, and broke new shooters in right at 50 yards. People would show up once we were already shooting and exclaim "you guys are shooting from WAY BACK HERE?"....we would let them go up to 7 yards and go balammityblamblamblamblamblamblamblam with their Gluck for a couple magazines then they would leave with their "practice" done until the next time.

Bill

45r

02-12-2009, 10:00 AM

Find a mid-load that is accurate and shoot concentrating on the iron sights more than the target.My 45 colt redhawk will shoot 2 and a half inch groups at 50 yards with iron sights.It has a very good trigger for a redhawk.Your sight picture has to be perfect and not move pressing the trigger.Trigger control and consistant grip on a handgun is most important,everything else is overrated.

Brl

02-12-2009, 11:24 AM

Thank you. A lot of good info here.

The load that I shot that day at 30 yards was a factory load, Winchester white box 240 grain. I shot those: A) to get rid of them. and B) to get more once fired brass.

Firstly, I think I'll change grips. I really don't like the Hogue rubber it wears now. They are too narrow and cause pressure on my fingers and heel of my palm with almost no contact with the mid palm. I can't seem to find much of a selection for rubber grips for the RH. I hear as bad comments as good for the Pachmyer grips. There are plenty for the GP or Super. I may switch to wood or other hard material or back to the factory grip. I put the Hogue on YEARS ago when "rubber will absorb recoil" craze was going on. Well, they may absorb recoil better, but I would rather feel a little more recoil in a comfortable grip than less recoil in an uncomfortable grip...I think anyway. Plus, If I'm loading (in the neighborhood of) 240's @ 1,100 fps, there really won't be much recoil anyway.

That's a start anyway. I'll be more aware of my sight picture and stance next time I'm out...which won't be for several weeks. But that will give me some time to prepare more.

AlaskaMike

02-12-2009, 12:52 PM

Firstly, I think I'll change grips. I really don't like the Hogue rubber it wears now. They are too narrow and cause pressure on my fingers and heel of my palm with almost no contact with the mid palm. I can't seem to find much of a selection for rubber grips for the RH. I hear as bad comments as good for the Pachmyer grips. There are plenty for the GP or Super. I may switch to wood or other hard material or back to the factory grip. I put the Hogue on YEARS ago when "rubber will absorb recoil" craze was going on.

I had a couple different kinds of rubber grips on mine and never was happy either. I recently tried a set of Eagle's Oversize grips in rosewood on my Redhawk and it made a world of difference for me. I am MUCH happier with my Redhawk now.

Mike

Lloyd Smale

02-13-2009, 06:49 AM

im with redhawk. The first thing you have to do is bench your load and see how accurate it really is. Ive seen guns that shot one hole at 7 yards shoot 6 inch groups at 25.

9.3X62AL

02-13-2009, 03:56 PM

I have Michaels' (Uncle Mike's) neoprenes on my Redhawk. With the Redhawk I finally found a revolver whose aftermarket grips were usually too big for my hands--the Michaels are just right.

cbrick

02-13-2009, 05:02 PM

Are you careful to grip the revolver EXACTLY the same, shot to shot? Same grip tension, same hand location, same stance, EVERY TIME?

The vast majority of my shooting is long range revolver out to 200 meters. Al could have well have hit the nail (and your problem) on the head.

The seven most critical things in long range revolver accuracy:

1> Grip
2> Sight picture
3> Grip
4> Trigger control
5> Grip
6> Follow through
7> Grip

Change any of this even slightly from shot to shot and you will not shoot groups, you will shoot patterns. Location of hand on the grip, any change in finger tension, even slightly, any change in grip during follow through or worse, a lack of follow through.

The reason is very simple; revolvers have a slow lock time (compared to bolt guns) and a slow barrel time. While the bullet is still in the barrel and the gun is recoiling ANY change, even a very slight change in how the revolver recoils will change the position of the muzzle at the instant the bullet exits the muzzle. It changes the muzzle position up, down, left or right with even slight changes in grip. Single actions are even worse; they call them plow handles for a reason, this style/design of grip accentuates (multiplies) grip inconsistencies but don't get the idea that grip isn't important on double actions.

You could well have the same grip inconsistencies shooting at say 7 yards but the problem is much harder or impossible to detect at this range. You'll get say a 2 inch group at 7 yards but the same gun; same load, same bench rest will shoot patterns at 50 yards because of the same grip inconsistencies used at 7 yards. The longer the range the more grip inconsistencies will become apparent and the larger the pattern will be.

When I am shooting a long range revolver match after every single shot I remove the revolver from my shooting hand with the other hand and replace it in exactly the same place it was on the previous shot. When I replace the revolver in my shooting hand if it doesn’t feel EXACTLY the same I do it again until it is the same. (this not a rapid fire match) It may not be apparent at first but under recoil the revolvers grip DOES move (change position) in your hand. The best sight picture or even scope will not shrink your revolver group if your grip is inconsistent (even slightly) from shot to shot.

Rick

Brl

02-16-2009, 03:00 PM

Yes, I didn't re-grip the revolver nor was is comfortable in my hand, and with the lack of grip I'm sure the revolver probably shifted.

Are there any resources solely for the process of instructing long range revolver shooting? If I'm going to start practicing longer range shooting, I'd like to make sure I start practicing good habits from the start rather than re-train bad habits.

Thank you!

Echo

02-16-2009, 07:12 PM

+1 for what willbird and cbrick say. Consistancy of grip and sight alignment are utmost in importance in accurate pistol shooting. I have no doubt that your gun and loads are of acceptable accuracy - it's just the nut that holds the grips that needs attention! You used Ball & Dummy practice years ago, go back to it now - can't hurt! And you will be your own coach.

Of course everyone on the range will notice if you flail around on an empty case, so, to save embarrasment, don't flail around, flailing around being defined as having the gun move AT ALL when the hammer is dropped on an empty case.

And you posted an answer while I was typing. Used to be, when there were many gun clubs around, one could get good training on the line. No more, at least around here. So you fairly well have to be your own coach, and that ain't easy! Ball & Dummy is my recommended method of practice, along with dry firing to imprint a consistant even trigger pull on the spinal cord.

Watch the front sight, maintain solid sight alignment, maintain a consistant and STRONG grip, and have the firing be a surprise.

dgslyr

02-17-2009, 02:03 PM

I got rid of my last redhawk last weekend.I didn't care for the accuracy.I've been shooting 44 mags since '72.My first old model SBH Was extremly accurate,the others didn't do as well.The first redhawk was better but not like the 1st SBH.The last redhawk had timing problems.Ruger said it was ok.It shaved lead.I got about a half circle sliver.Make sure its empty.Take a piece of paper cut to fit in between the cylinder and the frame and close the cylinder,cock it,look through the barrel while shining a flashlight on the paper,watch it rotate.Can you see the edge of the chamber when you look through barrel?Does the chamber line up like it's supposed to?I could see the edge of all 6 chambers in mine about the same size as the lead shavings I was getting.1 was noticably worse than the others,all were off.It was good at the indoor range 3,7,and 15 yards.At 50 it was horrible shooting from sand bags.I got 15X40 with my S&W 66 with 38spl in Hunters pistol sillhouette,only got 9x40 with the redhawk.only 2 pigs and no turkey's or ram's.I'm looking for an old model SBH.

jh45gun

02-17-2009, 04:41 PM

Three44s

02-18-2009, 01:25 AM

I have a Smith Mountain gun ....... a RH and a SRH ....... all .44s

The Smith is the best as to fitament etc. ...... no doubt about it ........

BUT the (my sample) RH is the most usable when you factor in ruggedness for a hunting revolver.

For hunting ....... my Redhawk is the best ..........

Now, I am not going to profess that ALL ...... RH's would trump all SRH's or Smiths for hunting ...... but mine is pretty close to perfect!

I do my very best fine shooting with it with a Bushnell Holosight ........ with it and an improvised rest .... resting over a front tractor tire ....... I can shoot golf balls at a very high hit percentage @35 yds.

And I am not special ........ I have just worked at it.

Here's how I got there:

First and foremost ........ I found a grip that really works for me .......... the Uncle Mikes neoprene like ..... Al suggests .......

Second .... I bought a K22 Smith (22 lr) ..........

And first and mostest ....... I shoot the literal dog snot out of that .22 lr Smith!

And I use golf balls ............. they take a lickin' and keep on givin'

Paper targets with a handgun bore me stiff!

Why does my RH beat my SRH?

The throat dimensions on my RH beat my SRH .......

The SRH was to replace the RH but after trigger jobs on both ..... I just COULD NOT part with either nor could I bear to have the SRH's 9.5 inch barrel bobbed to 6" as per my plan.

Before you start thinking I am raving about RH's ........ don't ......... these guns are individuals ..... your mileage will surely vary ....... but "this" RH beats that SRH nor this SRH beating those RH's do little to grade YOUR revolver!

The prior posts here do much about glasses and sights ........... I'll jump to something that was not addressed (I believe)

There was some discussion about gripping ...... YES .... you gotta grip THE SAME ........

BUT there is more.

Your posture ...........

So here's what Elmer Keith developed!

His BACK REST position!

Your creativity can kick in here ... but the basic plan is to sit on the ground in front of a back rest ...... man made or natural ....... you'll end up with that revolver between your knees .... legs drawn up halfway to your mug .........

Wear OLD britches! ........ and prepare for ......... the "hot leg" ........ LOL!!

Your hands and wrists will be between your knees and they will act like a VISE!!!!!!

IF you really want to get in REVOLVERology ............. buy and read and re-read:

Sixguns by Elmer Keith

......... and +1 on you "not going away" ..........

I'd rather banter around with your stuff than turn on the news and watch the current debacle!

Three 44s

725

02-27-2009, 09:46 AM

Couple thoughts.
1 - Trigger control. Ensure you are pulling straight back. A push to one side or pull to one side at the moment of discharge has dramatic effects on accuracy. Hard to get your mind around the process (at least for me) because it's such a minor motion. But it makes a major impact. Push/pull on the frame or side of the trigger and it pushes or pulls the pistol off target.
2 - "One Ragged Hole" company makes a replacement rear sight insert that, with the twist of a screw driver replaces your rear blade with a rear peep. For the twenty dollar investment and no modifications to your gun you can try a peep sight. They include two (small hole & large hole) sight in a single purchase. If one or the other replacement peep blades works, you're all set. You end up with the original notch blade, and two peep blades to choose from whenever you want. Takes just a minute or two to swap them around, and since you never mess with the rear sight elevation setting, windage is the only adjustment to make. Prudent notations or markings will take care of that. The peep really changes the usefulness of the gun in that it is so much more accurate without any "add on" type modifications. (scopes, red dots, lasers, night vision, radar guidence systems, infared painting, GPS satilite smart targeting interfaces, etc.)

Randall

02-27-2009, 04:52 PM

Three44's I agree with you about the Uncle Mikes grips,they are the best when I can find them.

longhorn

02-27-2009, 10:02 PM

Try some different ammo, but I don't think that's the problem. I'd replace the grips with something that felt "right" then worry about sights. I've gotten pickier and pickier about grips as I've aged, and I already own a bushel basketful (literally, I'm afraid) of rejected grips. I'd suspect a "shooter-gun interface" problem before a mechanical accuracy problem.

Three44s

02-28-2009, 02:02 AM

Three44's I agree with you about the Uncle Mikes grips,they are the best when I can find them.

I do wish they made a softer version of them ........ they fit my hand like a GLOVE but are too hard ......

AND ..... I wonder if they have been discontinued?

Three 44s

44man

02-28-2009, 10:26 AM

I feel safe in saying there ARE some bad shooting Ruger's that get out of the factory. Something I can no longer mention about another brand! :mrgreen: In my opinion, EVERY factory can dump a lemon out the door. :Fire: Same as every other product from cars to washing machines.
Then factory loads!!!! Some shoot great from one gun but just make noise from another and stop to think about it, it is the same with hand loads if not made for the gun in question.
Overlooking a bad gun, the RH IS a little harder to find a load for and I found just a powder change worked like a champ.
Now I have to question that because I heard H110 is now the same as 296, which is good for me but maybe not so good for the RH. Back when, there was a slight burn rate difference between H110 and 296 even though it was the same powder and that difference might now be gone. One would think a change in load would make them the same but that never worked for some reason. The RH loved H110!
I would be working with 2400 and some other powders in it to see what it likes.
If you have one built right, the RH is a wonderful gun so don't give up, just work with it more.
Yes, how you shoot is important and there are a bunch of super suggestions here but the guns accuracy still must be found first or all the practice in the world will not work. The best shooter in the world can not make a mismatched load shoot. It is like shooting a child's arrow out of an 80# bow and expecting to hit the target.
That is why I work so hard to make my revolvers shoot better then I can shoot them, I am the loose nut and can accept that but I will not accept a poor load that goes somewhere on it's own.
Once in a while I get a gun that will not shoot so I just sell it. I never do that until it is proven though. And that is my reason to never test a gun less then 50 yd's and then move WAY out because most any revolver will group decent at close range.
That is my beef with gun rags, 25 yd's and sometimes with a Ransom rest. I can shoot like that with a BB gun! [smilie=1: I miss the days when hundreds of handloads plus factory loads were tested with a new gun, now it is just factory stuff. The accuracy chart is a little box with groups that would make me sick at 100 yd's.

felix

02-28-2009, 11:17 AM

No different with any gun, or bow. You make, or have made, the gadgets which are compatible with the shooter's target and distance. 99 percent of us shooters have appetites not commensurate with reality, and that is the cause of too many guns, too many molds and only few of them are worth a damn for true satisfaction. ... felix

Randall

02-28-2009, 12:36 PM

I do wish they made a softer version of them ........ they fit my hand like a GLOVE but are too hard ......

AND ..... I wonder if they have been discontinued?

Three 44s

Yes they have been discontinued for U.S. use I think it was a patent infringement,I look for them at every gunshow where ever they have used grips.I have them on several handguns and wish I could find more.

Heavy lead

02-28-2009, 12:54 PM

I know most guys do not shoot the big boomers DA, but my Redhawk has the best DA I have ever used on any SRH any Smith (I'm a huge Smith fan too), Colt and anything else

Idaho

02-28-2009, 11:41 PM

Don't assume it is just you before I decided to jump in this fray I am glad to see some one blame the gun as the post above me. Last two Rugers I shot shot for crap and I thought it was me and I got rid of the Rugers then I got a Target gun that had FINER sights than the ruger and I could shoot better with it. Not all Rugers are created equal if you have a good one its a good gun but they do make some clunkers. One reason I just bought a Uberti I am afraid to try an other Ruger again and I have had 4 of them in my lifetime (Single Actions two 44s and two Single Sixes. Two were good I should have kept but did not and the replacement ones I bought I could not get rid of fast enough they were terrible. Luck of the draw I guess. Before all you Ruger lovers start in on my if I had a nickle for every gun rag article I read about Rugers where they sent them in for action/accuracy jobs ect ect ect. If Ruger did their job right I figure you should not have to do this.

Yep!

I sent a Redhawk back to Ruger~ At 25 yds you better toss the pistol at the target. Several folk's tried to place just one hole at 25 yds before I gave up..It turned out that is was the pistol & the New one shoots much better...Still Not a Blackhawk

My New Redhawk is a head ache with changing bullet weight ...It likes H110..WLP Primers & 250-270 gr boolits

My Super likes it all

The sad part is my 4" Redhawk still shoots better than my Win 94 rifle