Bought a 94 Winchester yesterday

[freakonaleash]

It a commemorative Frontiersman in 38 55. Do these take short brass or long. Tight bore too, .375, I'm used to at least .380 on all my old stuff. Gonna have to get a sizer.

[FergusonTO35]

As I understand it, the .38-55 chamber should take either one. The .375 WCF chamber usually only takes the short .38-55 brass. If the bore is that tight I would be more worried about boolits catching in the throat. Which, long brass can exacerbate.

[indian joe]

It a commemorative Frontiersman in 38 55. Do these take short brass or long. Tight bore too, .375, I'm used to at least .380 on all my old stuff. Gonna have to get a sizer.

I have an "Oliver F Winchester" (top eject) it is scary accurate with cast and blackpowder, one juice box wad, Proper length 38/55 brass - (not the short 375 BB stuff), LEE 250 grain boolit from the mold. I would rather it was blued than gold plated but its a fine rifle.

For a good few years we could buy some of these "commemmoratives" lightly used or NIB for less than the retail price of standard 30/30 carbine !!!

[freakonaleash]

I turned my brain on this morning and I too have an 'Olly Winchester" stashed in one of the safes. I checked my records and I was shooting a .377 bullet from BACO and long brass. It too shot scary accurate with black powder. This one has real silver plate on it and has turned an attractive mellow color. These guns have great checkering on them, I wish they would have put a traditional buttplate on them, either carbine or rifle would have been fine.

[veeman]

I have the Crazy Horse version, wonderful rifle, and light! Had it D&Ted for a Skinner peep and it shoot better than I do. I have only tried the short version of the Starline brass, can't see having to buy 250 of the long version just to see if it works. Short works just fine.

[veeman]

Actually Starline has both lengths available for backorder right now.

[steveu]

Do a chamber cast and measure first.

[freakonaleash]

The shorties are for the 375s. All my 38 55s including this new one take the long brass.

[freakonaleash]

I often wonder why Winchester made the 375 when the 38 55 was doing just fine.

[TomAM]

Get the long 38/55 brass and trim to suit. Chambers vary, and too short brass hurts accuracy.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I have the exact same rifle. Bore is 0.379" and it takes long Starline brass.

This is my 300yd 'cowboy' long range rifle.

[FergusonTO35]

I often wonder why Winchester made the 375 when the 38 55 was doing just fine.

Magnumania was still in full swing and Winchester wanted their lever action line to get some of the action. Of course, the 94 would never be able to take an actual belted magnum but the Big Bore line was the same idea applied to tube fed lever actions. Didn't Marlin bring out the .444 about the same time?

[Eddie Southgate]

Magnumania was still in full swing and Winchester wanted their lever action line to get some of the action. Of course, the 94 would never be able to take an actual belted magnum but the Big Bore line was the same idea applied to tube fed lever actions. Didn't Marlin bring out the .444 about the same time?

No. The 444 predates the .375 Winchester. .444 in 1964 and the .375 in 1978.

[Cast10]

I’ve got a new model Sporter and shoot the short brass (Starline). Accuracy, so far, has been good. Not hot-rodding, so pressure isn’t a consideration. Cycles good, too.

[Texas by God]

I use the Winchester 38-55 (short) brass in mine.
But it is a JES rebore. Jessie told me to use .377” cast so that’s how I size the Lee 250.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FergusonTO35]

No. The 444 predates the .375 Winchester. .444 in 1964 and the .375 in 1978.

Didn't know that, thanks.

[indian joe]

Didn't know that, thanks.

always thought the 375BB was Winchester's belated reply to the marlin 444 --

[john.k]

Seeing as the 375 is just a regurgitated 38/55 ,then I d say it predates 444 by around a century........the 444 was always a waste of time with the dumb 36" twist rifling.

[indian joe]

Seeing as the 375 is just a regurgitated 38/55 ,then I d say it predates 444 by around a century........the 444 was always a waste of time with the dumb 36" twist rifling.

I agree it was a dumb way of doing it -- but how long do you think a Blackpowder era 94 would last running full throttle 375 BB loads ?
There was a lot more meat in the frame of the one I had than in the standard 30/30 action.

yeah the round will fit (stupid of winchester to do that) in the same hole as a 38/55 but as they came from the factory they are not the same - not even close pressure wise!

[georgerkahn]

I have the exact same rifle. Bore is 0.379" and it takes long Starline brass.

This is my 300yd 'cowboy' long range rifle.

... as does my Legendary Frontiersman! Bion, the brass I have/use is "older than Fred Flintstone" -- all from before the shortened brass was perhaps even thought of.
geo

[TomAM]

Adding to the oddity of the 375 was the fact that Winchester (and Marlin) never produced any guns in that chambering.

There was a lot of interest in the cartridge at first, because in the late 70s the 38-55 was nothing more than a fading memory. This was long before the resurgence of popularity of the old cowboy cartridges.

Winchester beefed up the 94 receiver, but installed 38-55 barrels. The likely reason of using a chamber .11 inch too long and a bore .03" too large was to bleed off pressure due to action strength concerns.

The unfortunate result was shotgun style "groups". Proper case length is important for accuracy; you don't want the bullet tumbling through a hole that's over .020" larger in diameter than the bullet itself before it even reaches the rifling leade.

That's why I suggest the 2.12" 38-55 brass. You can trim if needed for a truly correct fit.

[FergusonTO35]

Wow, did not know that!

[M-Tecs]

Adding to the oddity of the 375 was the fact that Winchester (and Marlin) never produced any guns in that chambering.

There was a lot of interest in the cartridge at first, because in the late 70s the 38-55 was nothing more than a fading memory. This was long before the resurgence of popularity of the old cowboy cartridges.

Winchester beefed up the 94 receiver, but installed 38-55 barrels. The likely reason of using a chamber .11 inch too long and a bore .03" too large was to bleed off pressure due to action strength concerns.

The unfortunate result was shotgun style "groups". Proper case length is important for accuracy; you don't want the bullet tumbling through a hole that's over .020" larger in diameter than the bullet itself before it even reaches the rifling leade.

That's why I suggest the 2.12" 38-55 brass. You can trim if needed for a truly correct fit.

Both my 375 Winchester 94 BB and 375 Marlin had 375"/.376" groove diameters. My very old 38-55 has a .380" groove diameter. That is a difference of .004" not .030". I also had to trim my 38/55 brass to work in the 375 Win. 94 BB. Never shot anything other than 375 Win brass in the Marlin. I've actually owned 2 of the Win 94 BB. One shot really well and one was just average. The Marlin 375 is scoped shoots better than most bolt guns. A buddy has a Savage 99 in 375 Win. I've shot it a couple of times from the bench last summer. Five shot groups were 2" to 2 1/2 at a hundred yards with irons and is jacketed loads. Also my eyes are well past prime.

SAAMI spec for the 375 Win page 134. The 38/55 is page 137. SAAMI groove difference is .003" not .030" https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

Buffalobore does a good job with the details.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=543

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=175

[Castaway]

Might want to read this;

https://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/loading-with-correct-38-55-winchester-cases-38-55-rifle/

[indian joe]

Adding to the oddity of the 375 was the fact that Winchester (and Marlin) never produced any guns in that chambering.

strike one - I bought a Winchester 375 BB in the early 1990's

There was a lot of interest in the cartridge at first, because in the late 70s the 38-55 was nothing more than a fading memory. This was long before the resurgence of popularity of the old cowboy cartridges.

Winchester beefed up the 94 receiver, but installed 38-55 barrels. The likely reason of using a chamber .11 inch too long and a bore .03" too large was to bleed off pressure due to action strength concerns.

Strike two - I fed it a steady diet of 220grain gascheck boolits sized .379 over 38 grains of Reloader 7 = accurate as any of us could do with iron sights - certainly NOT shotgun style groups

The unfortunate result was shotgun style "groups". Proper case length is important for accuracy; you don't want the bullet tumbling through a hole that's over .020" larger in diameter than the bullet itself before it even reaches the rifling leade.

That's why I suggest the 2.12" 38-55 brass. You can trim if needed for a truly correct fit.

Strike three - the chamber in my rifle was not cut sloppy enough to properly accomodate 38/55 brass

[TomAM]

Many rifles were produced and STAMPED 375 Winchester, but they were chambered in 38-55. I've owned, measured and tested three examples of each brand.

I did miss a decimal point, however. I meant .003" bore difference, not .03".

I currently own three true 375 Wins; two MGM Thompsons, and a custom Marlin 336 built by Dave Clements. They realize the full potential of the cartridge.

My remaining model 94 XTR "375 Win" shoots very well with the long 38-55 Starlines. The use of the correct cartridge for the chambering reduced 100 yd groups from 5" to 1.5", open sights.

[Gray Fox]

A couple years back I traded into a like new Legendary Frontiersman and called Starline to ask which length brass I should use. A gentleman who said he was a ballistic engineer told me that I should order the short brass (both lengths were ins stock at that time), and to expect the bore to be .378, which it is, and I shoot Bear Creek Supply's black coated .379 250 grainers in it which perform well. GF

[indian joe]

Many rifles were produced and STAMPED 375 Winchester, but they were chambered in 38-55. I've owned, measured and tested three examples of each brand.

I did miss a decimal point, however. I meant .003" bore difference, not .03".

I currently own three true 375 Wins; two MGM Thompsons, and a custom Marlin 336 built by Dave Clements. They realize the full potential of the cartridge.

My remaining model 94 XTR "375 Win" shoots very well with the long 38-55 Starlines. The use of the correct cartridge for the chambering reduced 100 yd groups from 5" to 1.5", open sights.

ohhhh come on..................

so my Winchester 375 BB with the beefed up action and all the info that came with it sayin 375 BB is really a 38/55 in disguise ??????? really .....

[freakonaleash]

To get back to the original post, Got out my expensive calipers and put on glasses I could actually see out of and my Legendary Frontiersman measures .380
I have 4 rifles in 38 55, three of them are .380 and an antique 1893 ballard measures .381. I have an antique 86 in 38 56 that measures .378 but shoots .380 fine.

[indian joe]

To get back to the original post, Got out my expensive calipers and put on glasses I could actually see out of and my Legendary Frontiersman measures .380
I have 4 rifles in 38 55, three of them are .380 and an antique 1893 ballard measures .381. I have an antique 86 in 38 56 that measures .378 but shoots .380 fine.

My 375 BB is long gone so I cant measure it
have had an Oliver F Winchester (38/55) for 25 years or more - I put a decent tang sight on ot - it runs a basic blackpowder load - FFF powder + juice box wad + LEE 250 grain boolit (sized .359 or as dropped) this rifle is scary accurate with that basic load in proper long brass - aint broke dont fix it!! - I have seen no need to slug it or measure it or chamber cast it. I have had a good number of lever rifles (still do) - this one is one of few that does not walk or wander shots as it heats up - can shoot a string = couple of magazines full - and it stays right on point.

[veeman]

OK, I ordered the long version from Starline yesterday, just cuz, well, it might be whats needed. I also have an original 1894 SRC in 38/55, so I'm sure they will work in that one. Got a batch of 30-30 being delivered today!

[TomAM]

Be careful to ensure that the brass is not too long. A quick and easy test is to full length size a case and then use the neck expand/mouth bell die to bell the case mouth slightly. Enough to scrape the chamber walls slightly while chambering the empty case.

You will feel slight resistance while chambering the empty. If the case mouth bottoms out in the chamber, you'll feel it.
Then trim to suit.

[veeman]

Thanks for that info.

[FergusonTO35]

Many rifles were produced and STAMPED 375 Winchester, but they were chambered in 38-55. I've owned, measured and tested three examples of each brand.

I did miss a decimal point, however. I meant .003" bore difference, not .03".

I currently own three true 375 Wins; two MGM Thompsons, and a custom Marlin 336 built by Dave Clements. They realize the full potential of the cartridge.

My remaining model 94 XTR "375 Win" shoots very well with the long 38-55 Starlines. The use of the correct cartridge for the chambering reduced 100 yd groups from 5" to 1.5", open sights.

That's what Buffalo Bore says, .38-55 brass is better in every respect. You have very good taste in avatars!