.311 expander for 7.62x54R

[michael.birdsley]

so i’m using the lee dies to Fl size my 7.62x54R brass. i know the lee expander plug is .308. would i get better case life if i swapped out the original expander mandrel to .311. .311 would still give me .003 of neck tension. i’m sizing my noe 314-210-run bullets to .314. i’ve measured a fired case and the ID is .316 OD is .336


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[trails4u]

I don't know that it would affect case life so much, but might improve accuracy by way of not swaging your lead bullet down in size during seating. .314 into a neck sized .308....I'm guessing you're losing some of that diameter upon seating.

[michael.birdsley]

I don't know that it would affect case life so much, but might improve accuracy by way of not swaging your lead bullet down in size during seating. .314 into a neck sized .308....I'm guessing you're losing some of that diameter upon seating.

i’m not loosing any diameter i’ve pulled a bullet after seating. i use the the lee universal expanding die to open up the case mouth. i’m just thinking maybe i wouldn’t have to bell the case mouth as much with a bigger mandrel. but, yes if i wasn’t belling the case mouth it would be shaving lead. i’ve done that on accident before


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[trails4u]

Good that you've checked a bullet after seating....that would be my major concern. I would still encourage the .311 plug just on principle. We're moving alloys around, so in my mind less is always more.

[Maven]

Yes, you do want to use the larger expander and .311" belling die, e.g. what Lyman calls an "M" die for the 7.62 x54R. Btw, those can be astoundingly accurate rifles even "as issued," Michael.

[j4570]

Are you sure the LEE expander is for 308 bullets? What’s the diameter?

I haven’t researched a LEE expander diameter of 308 vs 7.62x54r or 303 which are 0.311 bullets so I don’t know what they include with the 7.62x54r die set.

Despite I’m not a huge fan I’m not a LEE hater either. I have several LEE dies and equipment and are very happy with them.

[TD1886]

For cast bullets you want to expand your case neck 1.5 to 2.0 smaller then the cast bullet you're loading. Keep the the life of your case necks lasting longer is where bushing resizing dies come in handy. Also you can get or even make the size bushing your want the inside of your case neck to be then all you have to do is bell them a tad to prevent the case mouth from shaving your cast bullet. Now pay attention that even with a bushing sizer die your inside case neck diameter will vary due to different case neck thicknesses. As I've said else I'd stay away from Lyman M dies.

[michael.birdsley]

For cast bullets you want to expand your case neck 1.5 to 2.0 smaller then the cast bullet you're loading. Keep the the life of your case necks lasting longer is where bushing resizing dies come in handy. Also you can get or even make the size bushing your want the inside of your case neck to be then all you have to do is bell them a tad to prevent the case mouth from shaving your cast bullet. Now pay attention that even with a bushing sizer die your inside case neck diameter will vary due to different case neck thicknesses. As I've said else I'd stay away from Lyman M dies.

is the bushing die the same as the lee collet die ? maybe i could go that rout also


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[michael.birdsley]

Are you sure the LEE expander is for 308 bullets? What’s the diameter?

I haven’t researched a LEE expander diameter of 308 vs 7.62x54r or 303 which are 0.311 bullets so I don’t know what they include with the 7.62x54r die set.

Despite I’m not a huge fan I’m not a LEE hater either. I have several LEE dies and equipment and are very happy with them.

yeah it’s .308 on the expander ball which, lee does state that with the die’s. almost all of my reloading stuff is lee. it was all lee when I started and now I have 2 LEE presses. the cheap c press ( my first one) and i bought a breach lock challenger last year.

all of my dies are lee except my .243 which, are hornady customs. trying to branch out and upgrade equipment as i can afford it. if it wasn’t for lee. there would have been no way that i could have been able get into reloading when i first started. i didn’t have the extra $300-400 bucks to get a lyman, hornady, or rcbs equipment. now is a differnt story financially.

some of the Lee stuff can be quirky but, i’ve only had one thing i’ve ever had to modify. which, was the stem on the lock stud on the .243 case trimmer. it was way to long and the cutter wouldn’t reach the case mouth. i had to grind a bit off with my bench grinder


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[Milky Duck]

with 7.62x39mm I swapped to the 30cal expander ball as normally used .308 calibre projectiles...still got 4-6 reloads percase.....so yes your 310 size ball is going to work brass less,so not a silly idea and will be cheap enough to do..the last expander spindle I bought was $20

[Waleone]

Michael,
If you already have the Lee universal expanding die, NOE makes expander plugs in various sizes that fit the Lee die and are configured more like Lyman 'M' die expanders;

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/bullet-casting-reloading/expanders/

[TD1886]

is the bushing die the same as the lee collet die ? maybe i could go that rout also


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I'm not a big fan of LEE dies so I don't think that they make a bushing sizer die. Some of the LEE products are innovative and very good. I like their neck sizer collet dies. If you have a lathe you can make different mandrels for your LEE collet neck sizing dies and use them to make your inside neck diameter to suit your needs.

The prices of the other brand dies has really gotten quite expensive and I can understand why many people aren't buying from them. Including me in some instances.

[TD1886]

If many of you think the Lyman M type expander doesn't leave a sharp enough ledge to size softer cast bullets down you're sadly mistaken. On harder bullets like WQ'ed or oven heat treater no. The M expander is attractive because before it came out the only way you could put a bullet in your loading tray of cases sized, primed, and powdered ready to go were boatail jacketed bullets. The M expander made it possible to seat any bullet. Look at the imagine and imagine that ledge it leaves sizing down softer lead bullet as I mentioned.

316166

[daengmei]

https://www.titanreloading.com/faqs/308-and-311-bullet-use/
https://www.leeprecision.com/ez-x-exp-303-b
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012847262/

Seems more available at midway

[michael.birdsley]

https://www.titanreloading.com/faqs/308-and-311-bullet-use/
https://www.leeprecision.com/ez-x-exp-303-b
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012847262/

Seems more available at midway

yes those are the ones i was looking at


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[michael.birdsley]

that bushing die does look interesting. maybe in the near future i’ll look at getting one


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[TD1886]

that bushing die does look interesting. maybe in the near future i’ll look at getting one


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You'll be happy you did when you get one. No more having to fool around with the expanders, all you need for cast is just a tiny belling. You're case neck will last a little longer.

[gloob]

For 314 cast bullets, I would use the NOE 318x314.

A 311 expander won't necessarily leave 3 thousandths of neck tension for a 314 bullet. Depends on your sizing die. If sized sufficiently, the neck will close back up nearly 2 thousandths, once you pull the expander back out of the case. So a 311 expander could leave the case 309, leaving "5 thous of neck tension." A 314 expander will leave the more or less the exact 1.5-2 thousandths of neck tension that will just give full neck tension. Going smaller won't give more tension. It'll just make your bullets seat less concentrically, even if your bullets are hard enough (and possibly gas checked) to avoid being squished smaller.

A side perk: for a stepped expander plug, 3 thousandths larger than bullet OD is about the minimum where you get no shavings, when you don't inside chamfer the case mouth. 318 is 4 thousandths over 314 bullet OD, which IME will leave just a tiny gap between bullet and case mouth once seated. Usually no need to tamper crimp, but your mileage might vary.

My experience with NOE is they very consistently machine their plugs just around half a thousandths smaller than listed. So I would expect the 318x314 to definitely be no bigger than that. Probably half a thousandth smaller in both diameters. So long as the expander is no bigger than your bullets, you will get full neck tension, so there should be no issues. If they made a 317x313, that might be another good choice, giving full neck tension on jacketed bullets, too. But a look at their site shows that they skipped over that size.

[challenger_i]

One can order the expander for the 303 Brit, or 7.65x53 Argie, if you want to expand to the larger size.
At one time, RCBS sent out their 7.62x54R dies with two expander/decappers: one was for the MN in 7.62x54R and the other was for loading ammo for the Finn Civil Guard MN, which has a .308" bore, rather than .311".

[michael.birdsley]

so i just purchased the noe 318x314 xander plug for my lee universal case expander. I also did purchase a 3 pack of the lee 303 .311 expander for the lee 7.62x54 FL sizing die. I’ll start with those.

Hopefully what i bought will help with accuracy and extend case life. realistically if my case life still sucks. That bushing die is probably the next step. it’s kinda expensive but, it would pay for its self by saving brass fairly quickly.

[centershot]

michael,
if you already have the lee universal expanding die, noe makes expander plugs in various sizes that fit the lee die and are configured more like lyman 'm' die expanders;

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/bullet-casting-reloading/expanders/

^^^^this!