.454 Casull v. .44 Magnum

[huntinlever]

Well, I do miss my .44 mag Super Blackhawk. It was not a "practical" sidearm, 5 1/2", but I loved it and wished I never sold it. Even then I'd thought of the .454 Casull Ruger Alaskan but imagine that will wake you up in the morning with it's 2 1/2" barrel. How do you guys like it? I know it's good Alaska defense, but I can't keep a straight face trying to use that one to explain to my wife.

[wilecoyote]

...I can't keep a straight face for much less :smile:, but sure it's downloadable to .44 levels or whatever makes me wake up better in the morning_

[ShooterAZ]

What's not practical about a 5-1/2" 44Mag Super Blackhawk? Mild to wild, what's not to like about it? The Lee 310 cast boolit over a healthy dose of 296 is nothing to sneeze at. If I lived in Alaska things "might" be different, but I still wouldn't feel under-gunned with a 44Mag.

[LeonardC]

Well, I know it's good Alaska defense, but I can't keep a straight face trying to use that one to explain to my wife.

Years ago I was getting ready for my summer trip to Alaska and saw a clip of a hunter and guide that jumped a big brown bear. The angle of the camera made the bear look 40' tall and both guys were pumping rounds into the bear. I showed the clip to the Wife and she said I need a bigger gun to keep me safe during my vacations. I was not going to argue! I told her I knew just the gun as there was a special run available in 500 S&W (4") in the Alaska Backpacker series.

It sure puts a smile on my face when I take it to the range.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Here’s my idea of “practical” barrel lengths.
454/45 Colt Super Redhawk 5”
Model 69 2.75”
Model 629-6 3”

316029

[shooting on a shoestring]

The Alaskan 454 has also captured my curiosity. But, I rarely shoot the Toklat.

The snubby 44’s do see lots of range time. But I usually use 200 grain wadcutters and push them 1000-1200. They are pleasant to shoot and will have sufficient power for anything I’d lay the sights on outside of the range.

If I had an Alaskan I’d be shooting it with similar light loads and having fun.

[huntinlever]

What's not practical about a 5-1/2" 44Mag Super Blackhawk? Mild to wild, what's not to like about it? The Lee 310 cast boolit over a healthy dose of 296 is nothing to sneeze at. If I lived in Alaska things "might" be different, but I still wouldn't feel under-gunned with a 44Mag.

I mean as a self-defense sidearm for city living only. And because I don't hunt with it, it's all about just what you say....I love it purely on its own merits. I'd definitely take it as a predator defense sidearm. Just curious how people find a 2 1/2" Casull v. something like the 5 1/2" .44 mag.

[huntinlever]

The Alaskan 454 has also captured my curiosity. But, I rarely shoot the Toklat.

The snubby 44’s do see lots of range time. But I usually use 200 grain wadcutters and push them 1000-1200. They are pleasant to shoot and will have sufficient power for anything I’d lay the sights on outside of the range.

If I had an Alaskan I’d be shooting it with similar light loads and having fun.

Sounds great to me!

Shortlist:

CVA muzzy
another wheelgun in .45 LC, .44 mag again...or.....casull.
Turkey 12 gauge

...and if I can convince myself I still have the physical life left in this old carcass, bowhunting again after 25 years away.

[Rapier]

454 in a short barrel is just blowing powder into the air. Done a bit of handgun hunting and the big meplat is the ticket, at moderate velocity and moderate recoil, that you can control. Burning powder in the air, in front of the muzzle, is only flash and noise.

[ShooterAZ]

I mean as a self-defense sidearm for city living only. And because I don't hunt with it, it's all about just what you say....I love it purely on its own merits. I'd definitely take it as a predator defense sidearm. Just curious how people find a 2 1/2" Casull v. something like the 5 1/2" .44 mag.

For city living only? I carry either a 1911 45ACP or a 2" Model 10 in 38 Special for the possibilities of those kinds of unpleasant events. A 454 or 44Mag is better suited for woods living IMO, where stuff can either eat you or put some serious bite marks on you. I want the ability to do some quick follow up shots, if necessary. If you're comfy with shooting full power 454 Casull loads from either a single action or double action in a snubby revolver, and making quick follow up shots, go for it. Not my cup of tea for self defense, at least not in the city that I live in. Carry and use what you're totally comfortable shooting, under any conditions.

[huntinlever]

For city living only? I carry either a 1911 45ACP or a 2" Model 10 in 38 Special for the possibilities of those kinds of unpleasant events. A 454 or 44Mag is better suited for woods living IMO, where stuff can either eat you or put some serious bite marks on you. I want the ability to do some quick follow up shots, if necessary. If you're comfy with shooting full power 454 Casull loads from either a single action or double action in a snubby revolver, and making quick follow up shots, go for it. Not my cup of tea for self defense, at least not in the city that I live in. Carry and use what you're totally comfortable shooting, under any conditions.

We're on the same page. .45 ACP for me, too. In terms of woods defense given we have nothing here in WI I'd need a pea shooter for, the .44 would be for hunting only and I won't be doing that. Just love the cartridge and love SA's....since my first Single-Six for Christmas, think I was age 7.

[challenger_i]

Wake you up in the morning? How about waking up the dead? Lord! I can't even fathom the racket, and I have launched 105 Howitzer rounds down range!

The nice thing is, you can always practice with the 45 Cowboy Special round. Save the heavy artillery for That Which Makes You Most Angry.




Well, I do miss my .44 mag Super Blackhawk. It was not a "practical" sidearm, 5 1/2", but I loved it and wished I never sold it. Even then I'd thought of the .454 Casull Ruger Alaskan but imagine that will wake you up in the morning with it's 2 1/2" barrel. How do you guys like it? I know it's good Alaska defense, but I can't keep a straight face trying to use that one to explain to my wife.

[Wheelguns 1961]

You can download the 454 to stout 45 colt loads. So there is your 45colt wheelgun. You can even use 45 colt brass.

[nicholst55]

I mean as a self-defense sidearm for city living only. And because I don't hunt with it, it's all about just what you say....I love it purely on its own merits. I'd definitely take it as a predator defense sidearm. Just curious how people find a 2 1/2" Casull v. something like the 5 1/2" .44 mag.

You see a relatively large number of used Ruger Alaskans for sale. That should tell you something.

[black mamba]

I feel that the larger the caliber the shorter the length of the barrel should be. My 454s are both 5", my 44 mag hunter is 6½" and my 41 magnum is an 8⅜ inch. 340 grainers don't need as much velocity to be effective as 210s do.

[lar45]

If I was to get an Alaskan, it would be in 480.
I think a more usable size would be a super Redhawk with the barrel cut to around 5.5".
It would still be short enough to pack easily and get into action quickly. Plus the barrel would still be long enough to make 100yd shots if needed.

[huntinlever]

If I was to get an Alaskan, it would be in 480.
I think a more usable size would be a super Redhawk with the barrel cut to around 5.5".
It would still be short enough to pack easily and get into action quickly. Plus the barrel would still be long enough to make 100yd shots if needed.

Thanks for the input. Maybe the old .44 SBH 5 1/2" wasn't such a bad thing after all. Sure loved it.

[black mamba]

For dangerous game I would want the extra speed of a double-action. Mine is the Taurus Raging Bull in 454 with the 5" ported barrel. I reshaped the backstrap of the rubber grips to give me more comfort and control with heavy loads. I have a very accurate load shooting 340 gr WFN GCs at 1250 fps.

https://i.imgur.com/BlXR9mf.jpg

[huntinlever]

For dangerous game I would want the extra speed of a double-action. Mine is the Taurus Raging Bull in 454 with the 5" ported barrel. I reshaped the backstrap of the rubber grips to give me more comfort and control with heavy loads. I have a very accurate load shooting 340 gr WFN GCs at 1250 fps.

https://i.imgur.com/BlXR9mf.jpg

Nice weapon. I'm not used to DA's at all, grew up with a single-six and have never changed, in terms of revolvers. Wasn't aware you can squeeze extra speed out of the DA over the SA. What is the reason?

I know the SA has it's issues with followup (or like when an ursine mouth is closing in), but I've never gotten used to the harder pull of the DA, and my accuracy (not to mention I just like them, the SA) suffers accordingly. I'm sure like everything else, it's all about time spent with one's weapon.

[lar45]

I believe that he is talking about putting more rounds down range in a shorter period of time, not bullet velocity(speed).

[black mamba]

Yes, Paul, rate of fire rather than velocity of bullets. As fast as you can pull the trigger.

[huntinlever]

OK thanks guys.

[Targa]

I really enjoy the Alaskan in .44mag for the same reason as the vast majority of my guns, simply because I like it, no reason to have them other than the fact than I enjoy them. If the .454 has your interest get it, when you get tired of abusing yourself with full throttle Casull rounds load those cases down to warm .45Colt.

[Three44s]

If I was to get an Alaskan, it would be in 480.
I think a more usable size would be a super Redhawk with the barrel cut to around 5.5".
It would still be short enough to pack easily and get into action quickly. Plus the barrel would still be long enough to make 100yd shots if needed.

Lots of agreement here!

As a cast boolit shooter, I believe in the 480 Ruger cartridge more than I do in the 454.

For the 454 to be cast friendly you need to load it closer to a Ruger only load in 45 LC than a top 454 load.

While I have not fired a 454, I have noted felt recoil differences between similar loads in 44 mag just by changing the dwell time, that is same bullet, nearly the same velocity but different powder. As a result I can reasonably predict that the drastically shorter dwell time of a 454 is going to intimidate far more shooteers than the more sedate muzzle velocity of either the 44 mag, 45 LC or the 480 Ruger.

BTW, I own a 480 7.5" SRH and like it very much.

Three44s

[Groo]

Groo here
If you are talking protection,,, ranges will be short, you may not even use the sights, the idea of followup shots is up to you barrel length is not needed[range is short]
A large bore, usually hard cast or fmj. standard weight or heaver,flat nose, and MV somewhere around 900 to 1200 [no more needed] from the gun you are carrying.
Remember , you are not hunting[range long] you are defending [range short]
AND the old Black Powder 45 colt with a 1/10 lead boolet would go through a HORSE , you have much better boolert.

[mnewcomb59]

You can have a 5.5 inch 45 colt Blackhawk for the same weight as an Alaskan. With moderate +P loads the lighter blackhawk will equal or surpass the Casull out of the short barrel.

Not to mention the uncorking pressure of 35 grains of powder at 60k PSI and a short barrel vs the 25-30k PSI out of a longer barrel with less powder. The Casull might save your life in an alley in the city but it would rupture your ear drums at twice the sound pressure level of a 16" muzzle braked 338 Win Mag.

[huntinlever]

You can have a 5.5 inch 45 colt Blackhawk for the same weight as an Alaskan. With moderate +P loads the lighter blackhawk will equal or surpass the Casull out of the short barrel.

Not to mention the uncorking pressure of 35 grains of powder at 60k PSI and a short barrel vs the 25-30k PSI out of a longer barrel with less powder. The Casull might save your life in an alley in the city but it would rupture your ear drums at twice the sound pressure level of a 16" muzzle braked 338 Win Mag.

Excellent, thanks. That's really helpful info beyond the specifics of this direct comparison, learned something new.

[huntinlever]

Groo here
If you are talking protection,,, ranges will be short, you may not even use the sights, the idea of followup shots is up to you barrel length is not needed[range is short]
A large bore, usually hard cast or fmj. standard weight or heaver,flat nose, and MV somewhere around 900 to 1200 [no more needed] from the gun you are carrying.
Remember , you are not hunting[range long] you are defending [range short]
AND the old Black Powder 45 colt with a 1/10 lead boolet would go through a HORSE , you have much better boolert.

Thanks Groo. Also great post. Previously with the .44 mag, it was all commercial bullets for reloading. It would be nice to cast for whatever I end up here, too. The Vaquero is looking high on the short list.

[lawdog941]

Lots of agreement here!

As a cast boolit shooter, I believe in the 480 Ruger cartridge more than I do in the 454.

For the 454 to be cast friendly you need to load it closer to a Ruger only load in 45 LC than a top 454 load.

While I have not fired a 454, I have noted felt recoil differences between similar loads in 44 mag just by changing the dwell time, that is same bullet, nearly the same velocity but different powder. As a result I can reasonably predict that the drastically shorter dwell time of a 454 is going to intimidate far more shooteers than the more sedate muzzle velocity of either the 44 mag, 45 LC or the 480 Ruger.

BTW, I own a 480 7.5" SRH and like it very much.

Three44s

I agree 100%. Even though I have a 7.5 in SRH in 454, I couldn't imagine it with a 2.5 bbl! The extra weight really helps and with bears on the table, I would want a double action with big bullets for big holes. Whatever you could proficiently hit at a close distance quickly. The thought of teeth and claws gnawing on me give me the willies.

[Jtarm]

Years ago I was getting ready for my summer trip to Alaska and saw a clip of a hunter and guide that jumped a big brown bear. The angle of the camera made the bear look 40' tall and both guys were pumping rounds into the bear. I showed the clip to the Wife and she said I need a bigger gun to keep me safe during my vacations. I was not going to argue! I told her I knew just the gun as there was a special run available in 500 S&W (4") in the Alaska Backpacker series.

It sure puts a smile on my face when I take it to the range.

Ooh, please send me the link to use on my wife:

A. The family should not go to Alaska with me, and
B. I need a Freedom Arms 83.

[huntinlever]

Ooh, please send me the link to use on my wife:

A. The family should not go to Alaska with me, and
B. I need a Freedom Arms 83.

You know, we could do with an online course on how to convince the fam that, you know, that trip and that new firearm is just really, really, even more really important.

[LeonardC]

Sorry guys. I have no idea how to find that video (10+ years ago?). The hunter used a bolt action and the guide a lever action. As I remember it the bear stood up and the hunter shot it and then both hunter and guide shot it several times. The angle of the camera, a ways behind and a bit above the hunters, made it look like the bear (a very large bear!) was towering over the hunters.

I'm not an expert on bears nor wives. I don't want the bears to chew on me so I leave them alone. The Wife I just lucked into. She bought her 329 as soon as we moved to AK.

[Lloyd Smale]

i had an 454 alaskan. kick my but for selling it. yes it was LOUD but as far as uncomfortable to shoot it was the easiest shooting 454 ive had or shot. combo of the great grips that come on then and with the shorter barrel the bullet is in the barrel (dwell time) for a shorter amount of time to impart recoil. i had mine cut for moon clips and it would shoot 454s and 45 colts with or without the custom moon clips and would even shoot 45acp with smith 25 moon clips. i even took it to a ppc match and shot a 289/300 back when my average was a 294 and that was with full power 300 grain loads. It was comical though. they had to stop the match after 5 rounds because one guy next to me dropped his gun and3 out of the other 4 shooters were completely missing the target. they made me shoot my round alone. that was about 15 years ago and they still talk about it at matches. i won the expert revolver class that day and took second in semi auto. the match was shot a a range right behind the local feed mill. at the trophy ceremonie i was up getting my trophys and one of the ladys ran to the mill and bought a pigs ear and when the ceremony was over they called me back up and gave me a pigs ear. the whole crowd was screaming. i still have that pigs ear on my trophy shelf. but to get back to the subject that gun WITH ear plugs was as easy to shoot as a 44 super blackhawk, by the way the worse kicking 454 ive owned was my first. a 7.5 FA. tht thing came back harder and was louder then my 475s

[captn-tin]

Hot 44 mag load =s wrist broken in 1 place... hot 454 Casull load =s wrist broken in three places + extremely disjointed elbow. Don't ask me how I know.

[Rockindaddy]

I have shot several deer over the years with a 44 Mag. They don't ever get up. Haven't tried it out on a big Alaskan Brown. Would prefer to use something shot from my shoulder. The 454 Casull is a fine cartridge but expensive. The 454 Casull brass is scarce. 44 Mag brass is cheap and available. The Casull guns are not a medium priced gun. The Ruger Redhawk 5 1/2" is built like a wagon. You can't break it. My choice would be a new Colt Annaconda 4" I have pounded a lot of ammo through one and after 25years mine is still slinging lead. Timing is still perfect! My idea of a box of 44 Mags is a 50cal Browning ammo can full of reloads. You can buy an Annaconda 44 for under $1500 now. 23 1/2 grs of 296 and a 240gr HP Hornady works great! If you don't reload and don't care about $$$$ then buy factory 454 ammo and the shooten iron to go with it.

[nicholst55]

Here’s my idea of “practical” barrel lengths.
454/45 Colt Super Redhawk 5”
Model 69 2.75”
Model 629-6 3”

316029

Ruger did a run of Super Blackhawks with a 3.75" barrel for a distributor. You might could locate one if you hunt hard enough.

ETA: Guess they actually did two runs - a standard plowhandle grip for TALO, and a Bisley grip for Lipseys.

317292

317293

[stubshaft]

454 in a short barrel is just blowing powder into the air. Done a bit of handgun hunting and the big meplat is the ticket, at moderate velocity and moderate recoil, that you can control. Burning powder in the air, in front of the muzzle, is only flash and noise.

Amen Brother. People do not realize how much velocity is lost in a short barrel! You'd be lucky to get 45 LC velocities out of the Alaskan.