I want help building up my first perfect load for a revolver and mold

[Stopsign32v]

My favorite revolver so far is this one, my GP100 5" limited edition. I got lucky and the lockup is great, the timing of the barrel is superb, and all of the cylinders measure at .357 so it SHOULD be a great shooter. Also I performed a trigger job on it, it has a Wolff mainspring, and all action parts have been shimmed so no rubbing. Trigger is exceptional! I just would like some better rear sights and front sight but they are currently out of stock at Bowen.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53047996074_24c5f4e791_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/GZh0986YwW)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53047996104_1279a3e457_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/hDKjep49zc)



So getting to the question, I absolutely love this NOE 360-182 mold but I have yet to shoot them. I plan to PC them and size them to .358 and try. I would like to try at .359 but I don't think I have a sizing die for that (Wish LEE made one). But maybe my LEE .358 will size a little big. Questions:

1) These boolits were cast about a year ago. A little dirty but nice and sharp. Should I remelt them and do some fresh ones? I don't know what age has done to the hardening.
2) I have 43 cast and I would like to know what I need to do to work up the ideal load...
3) I want to use 2400 but don't know where to start and how much to move up per (how many rounds?). For example Lyman 50th has 180gr JHP starting @ 10gr and max @ 12.6. 50th has 170gr 358429 starting @ 9.7 and max @ 13.5. So from this where should I start some loads for PC lead 182gr?
4) If for example your starting load is 9gr how many do you load up @ 9gr before you move onto your next step? How much powder do you increase per step looking for the accuracy sweet spot?
5) Should I play with OAL at all? Do you guys always stick to the book for OAL?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53047228937_c9ae8a3fd4_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/2P0cYF824Z)

[405grain]

Here's my thoughts on the matter, (and these are only opinions, not some set in stone rules or facts). First, on setting the OAL; These are heavy bullets, so they're going to need a decent crimp to keep the pistols recoil from trying to pull the bullets out of the cases. Because of this I'd recommend that you seat the bullets to the crimping groove and let that determine the OAL.

Second item: there's a lot of that bullet that's going to be inside of the case, which is going to limit the area for the powder. As we all know, when you deep seat a bullet it increases the pressure on a given powder charge. This adds an unknown into comparing loads for this bullet to those of similar weight. In example - (32 caliber pistol bullets) the Lyman #313631 is a 100 grain SWC. The RCBS 32-98-SWC is also a semi-wadcutter, and theoretically there's only 2 grains difference between the two. In actuality the Lyman bullet has most of its material in the bullet shank, and the RCBS has more material in the nose, with a shorter shank. This effects the seating depth, which gives a higher pressure for the Lyman bullet with the same charge used with the RCBS one. This is a very good reason to start at the lower powder charges and work up when you are basing the powder charge on the weight of the bullet.

To determine which load level is the most accurate, (and to check for pressure signs), I'd recommend that you load 12 rounds (two cylinders full) at each load level. Putting 12 rounds into a target will give a good representation of what to expect. If you start at 9.5 grains of 2400 and work up to 12.5 grains in half grain increments, shooting 12 shots at each level, that's only 84 bullets. You can easily cast more than that in one sitting. The standard disclaimer applies - stop at the first signs of pressure.

Again, these are just thoughts and assumptions. Safety is ALWAYS more important than velocity.

[Recycled bullet]

Make sure that the assembled ammunition fits the cylinder of the gun and do not stick past the end and infringe on proper cylinder rotation.
Also check projectile fitment in the cylinder throats , the powder coated and sized projectiles are capable of being pushed through the cylinder. If they don't fit then you're going to likely have insufferable leading. A light press fit through the cylinder throats generally makes for decent accuracy.

Once you have determined that the ammunition is capable of being functional then start at the bottom of the powder charge table and assemble some cartridges and test them and see if they're accurate. Continue gradually increasing the powder charge. In my hand loading experiments I have noticed a correlation that as I increase the powder charges group size and accuracy we'll get better and better up to about 75% of the max powder charge then will fall off before you hit pressure Max for that particular cartridge.


Now go get that gun hot. [emoji477]

[reddog81]

If the throats are .357 then .358 will work fine. .359 bullets will be sized the same when leaving the throats. I would set OAL by crimping into the crimp groove. I would try some at 10 grains and a few a bit higher, maybe 11 grains and make sure those all operate as expected.

43 bullets isn’t much to work with. I wouldn’t remelt the olds ones but would be casting more new ones.

[gwpercle]

The "old boolits" don't have an expiration date and if those are the ones pictured ... they look fine ... just cast some more .
Back about 30 years ago I fooled with 180 gr. boolits but didn't like the results in my Ruger Blackhawk . To my mind 180 gr. is more better in a rifle than a revolver .
I like 160 gr. weight for handguns ... the heavyweights have their own problems .

Words of advice from my Daddy ... " Son ain't nothing in life perfect , just do the best you can ! "
Gary

[NuJudge]

To work up a load, look in manuals and periodicals about similar bullets of about that weight. I particularly like the Lyman manual. You are looking for swaged or cast bullets of about that weight, that protrude into the case about as much as those bullets do. If you find loads for jacketed bullets that protrude into the case about the same amount as your cast bullet, the cast bullet will always produce lower pressures than the jacketed bullet. Here is one periodical on heavies in the .357: https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/heavyweight-bullets-in-the-357-magnum/

Forty-three projectiles is rarely enough projectiles to work up a good load.

[Stopsign32v]

Back about 30 years ago I fooled with 180 gr. boolits but didn't like the results in my Ruger Blackhawk . To my mind 180 gr. is more better in a rifle than a revolver .

Gary

What make 180gr bad for a revolver? I like the idea of throwing heavy rocks...

[P Flados]

For the mag, the 180 really does better in rifles, but is not a terrible choice for a revolver. Do not expect impressive velocities.

There is a lot less 180 gr load data out there than is wanted. The 180 really does deserve actual load data since the bullet seats deeply, but the depth varies a lot from bullet to bullet.

Given the lack of data specific to your bullet, I ran you a Quickload table. Although the GP-100 is about as tough as it gets for a 357 mag revolver, use caution working up your max loads.

I looked up the NOE bullet drawing and it looks like it is intended for a 0.410" seating depth and a 0.30" nose extending out of the case. Using Quickload, the COAL for this seating depth is 1.590. Quickload does not account for cylinder gap, so expect to loose 50 to 100 fps from predicted velocities. Also note that Quickload barrel length is breech to muzzle, so I used a guess for cylinder length.



Cartridge : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet : .358, 183, 360-182-WFN PB U2
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length : 6.7 inch = 170.2 mm
Powder : Alliant 2400

CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-16.7 75 10.00 1073 468 19385 4950 77.8 0.854
-15.0 77 10.20 1095 487 20428 5102 78.9 0.833
-13.3 78 10.40 1117 507 21514 5253 80.0 0.813
-11.7 80 10.60 1139 527 22646 5403 81.0 0.793
-10.0 81 10.80 1161 548 23826 5553 82.1 0.774
-08.3 83 11.00 1184 569 25057 5702 83.0 0.756
-06.7 84 11.20 1206 591 26341 5850 84.0 0.739
-05.0 86 11.40 1228 613 27680 5996 84.9 0.722
-03.3 87 11.60 1250 635 29076 6141 85.8 0.705
-01.7 89 11.80 1272 658 30532 6284 86.7 0.689 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 90 12.00 1294 681 32051 6425 87.6 0.674 ! Near Maximum !
+01.7 92 12.20 1317 704 33635 6565 88.4 0.659 ! Near Maximum !
+03.3 93 12.40 1339 728 35288 6702 89.2 0.645 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[Stopsign32v]

Check this out!

I also have some Lil Gun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imcKcKxI6DU

[Shopdog]

I usually load up 10(my loading blocks are in lines of 10)and test. A cpl cylinders full at 15 yards is going to tell me if it's got any issues.

While enjoying some recoil in hunting handguns,understanding the "mission" of the load.... it sure is nice shooting mid range ammo for tearing out X rings. The 180's in 357 can be a handful.

Good luck with your project.

[gwpercle]

What make 180gr bad for a revolver? I like the idea of throwing heavy rocks...

The 180 grain boolits took up too much case space , couldn't get enough 2400 behind it to get the velocity I was looking for . For throwing heavier boolits I use my 41 Magnum ... more space in the boiler room .
Reading Elmer Keith's reloading book "Sixgun Cartridges & Loads" indicated that Elmer thought 160 grains was about as heavy a boolit as the 38 Special and 38/44 Outdoorsman would properly handle and 170 grains for the 357 Magnum ... the length of the boolits must fit the guns and leave enough room in the case for powder ... you reach a point when things (boolits) get Too heavy and/or Too long.

I worked with a 170 grain Keith SWC (Lyman 358429) for a long time but the accuracy wasn't there and went back to 150 gr. to 160 gr. WC's and SWC's ... more accurate and decent velocity with the powder space .

But that was a long time ago ... with all the new powders out nowdays there may be something that works just great with the long 180 gr. boolits .
All I had was 2400 , Unique , Alcan #5 and Bullseye to work with ...

Go For It !
Good Luck and keep us posted !
Gary

[Stopsign32v]

I think I'm going to try Lil Gun instead of 2400 as around here Lil Gun is MUCH easier to find if I need more. I don't want to use up my 2400

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53050278945_dd408c0ec2_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/722G9hkpP7)

[Walter Laich]

▲ good point on using powder you can find.

as mentioned above what is your "mission"?
hunting
target shooting
sending out the biggest ball of flame behind the bullet as possible?
noise?

all are valid, and legal; just need to know what you're working towards

[Stopsign32v]

▲ good point on using powder you can find.

as mentioned above what is your "mission"?
hunting
target shooting
sending out the biggest ball of flame behind the bullet as possible?
noise?

all are valid, and legal; just need to know what you're working towards

Accuracy is #1

I don't care too much if it is top of the charge or not. Not looking for 1500fps

I noticed that I have a mold with the gas check option too on the 360-182. I'm going to load up some gas checked identical loads and see if that increases accuracy or not. If it is minimal though I doubt I'll continue down that path.

[Stopsign32v]

Just trying to keep this thread up to date for any researching in the future...Very skeptical now about Lil Gun powder for revolver loading. https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/lil%E2%80%99gun-and-your-forcing-cone-revisited.402499/

I do know that Buffalo Bore uses a powder that looks identical (we can go ahead and say it is Lil Gun) with their 180gr loadings. It also appears that the damage that is reported could be attributed to light weight bullets in front of Lil Gun. So one would question if 180gr and Lil Gun would be ok. Reports are that Lil Gun will heat up a revolver very hot with as little as 6 rounds. Questioning if it is even worth trying...

[charlie b]

I tried 180gn in my .357 revolver, once (it was my Contender load). Went back to 140's and 158's. After having 2 SP101's I sometimes think about getting a 3" version or a GP100 4". I like plinking with a revolver cause I don't have to pick brass up off the floor. :)

[Stopsign32v]

I tried 180gn in my .357 revolver, once (it was my Contender load). Went back to 140's and 158's. After having 2 SP101's I sometimes think about getting a 3" version or a GP100 4". I like plinking with a revolver cause I don't have to pick brass up off the floor. :)

No offense but I do not like the SP101, mainly due to 2 reasons. 1 I believe all revolvers should have 6 chambers...No more, no less. 2 I do not like the size of the SP101.

The GP100 to me is the perfect size Ruger offers for a DA revolver. A 3" GP100 half shroud is on my list.

https://dayattherange.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Gp100-094.jpg

[P Flados]

A few years ago I had problems with inconsistent ignition with a jug of H110 after years of acceptable performance from W296. I went looking for an alternate. I looked at Lil Gun and there were numerous reports of issues. I decided I wanted to avoid anything with mixed reports for performance.

I tried IMR 4227 and was not happy.

I found some WC 680 (milsurp for 1680) and liked it even though it was just a little "on the slow side" for some of my loads. Then I came across a deal on some SW Heavy pistol (very close to 2400) and decided to try some. I am now happy with this pair even if I give up "just a tad" to H110 or Lil Gun.

If I had to try something else in this range, Enforcer would be a choice I would be looking for. I might also think about AA7, AA9 or 11FS.

[fredj338]

If the throats are .357 then .358 will work fine. .359 bullets will be sized the same when leaving the throats. I would set OAL by crimping into the crimp groove. I would try some at 10 grains and a few a bit higher, maybe 11 grains and make sure those all operate as expected.

43 bullets isn’t much to work with. I wouldn’t remelt the olds ones but would be casting more new ones.

^^THIS^^ It sint going to matter much if you size 358 or 359 if the throats are 357. That will be the bullets size as it hits the bore.

[Harter66]

Without troding on the above you're almost certain in a revolver to have a chamber that tosses 1 out . It might be an inch at 50 yd but it could be its own group at 25 yd . Eliminate that early if possible. Next up work the load up in preferably the tightest chamber as long as it's not the one that tosses .

I like 5 rounds per step , steps in 10th divisions of the load window , skipping the start load and maximum load . Those 2 will be self resolved if they are the load .

You'll never get a best load for the whole cylinder and if you chase it the 2-3 that cut the same holes are going to cause you as much grief as the tosser .

[murf205]

316181316182

I get the theory that 180 gr boolits are a bit heavy for handguns but so far, I havn't been able to convince my 686 6" that they are. These are 180gr LBT's. the only way to tell is to load them and shoot 'em. As previously stated, be aware of the crimp groove and check for "push through" pressure of the boolit in the throats. That is a fine looking boolit you have cast there my friend.

[Recycled bullet]

I think this is operator error at 22 yards with my Ruger Blackhawkhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230720/e471282a6643da5ec60e19a2318438dd.jpg

[7br]

You might try Alliant 300-MP. I was able to get 1400fps out of a 10in Dan Wesson.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I wouldn't use Lil' Gun in a revolver, this thread has members who use Lil' Gun and like it, and people who hold the same opinion as me. Bottom line, heats up the gun too much and is risky for top strap erosion and Forcing cone erosion.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?421767-LiL-Gun-in-pistols

If you want accurate loads near the maximum line, I prefer H110, it's delivered the best accuracy for my guns.
Also 2400 is a very good powder, but didn't deliver the accuracy quite like H110 does.


SNIP >>>

5) Should I play with OAL at all? Do you guys always stick to the book for OAL?

For Magnum revolvers, I prefer to crimp in the crimp groove. If I can't get the desired accuracy with that OAL, I will sell the mold and try another.
That's my 2¢

[justindad]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 has load data for a Saeco 180 grain boolit that appears to be a WFN with one lube groove. Starting charge for 2400 is 11.1 grains. Starting charge for HS-6 is 8.6 grains, which may be more available. COAL is 1.590”.

[Stopsign32v]

I wouldn't use Lil' Gun in a revolver, this thread has members who use Lil' Gun and like it, and people who hold the same opinion as me. Bottom line, heats up the gun too much and is risky for top strap erosion and Forcing cone erosion.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?421767-LiL-Gun-in-pistols

If you want accurate loads near the maximum line, I prefer H110, it's delivered the best accuracy for my guns.
Also 2400 is a very good powder, but didn't deliver the accuracy quite like H110 does.


I don't have H110 but I do have 296 which I believe is the same thing. I agree with you on Lil Gun and will not approach that...But

One other powder I have seen a lot of around town is Longshot. I watched Elvis today and this sealed the deal and I will be trying this with Longshot for all the reasons he stated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p2SKg2fJks

[murf205]

What make 180gr bad for a revolver? I like the idea of throwing heavy rocks...

One of the best things about the 180 gr or any heavy for caliber boolit is that you don't have to run them at warp speed to be effective. They will penetrate into the next county at less than maximum speed. I don't use a lot of H110 or 296 because I'm not too fond of the flash and blast but when you pair them with mag primers, and you should, both really shine with heavies. Very accurate for me. Now I have not tried it but I have read that Accurate No 11 FS is very very close to H110 without the flash, hence the FS standing for Flash Suppressant. I'm sure some others here can shed some light on this powder for those of us who have not used it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I don't have H110 but I do have 296 which I believe is the same thing. I agree with you on Lil Gun and will not approach that...But

One other powder I have seen a lot of around town is Longshot. I watched Elvis today and this sealed the deal and I will be trying this with Longshot for all the reasons he stated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p2SKg2fJks

Yes H110 is exact same as W296
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?182888-Is-H110-and-W296-the-same-powder

I've never tried longshot.
I'm not familiar with Elvis.
But a quick search on castboolits doesn't bring up anything negative about longshot in 357mag, so that says something.
this thread comes up first
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?428036-Longshot-in-357-Mag-with-CB

[justindad]

I love Longshot in bottom feeders. In my snubby .357, it gives more recoil with less velocity than some other powders. If I had rubber grips, I would like the higher recoil.

[Stopsign32v]

I'm not familiar with Elvis.

WHAT? Him and FortuneCookie45LC keep me entertained quite a while with reloading. https://www.youtube.com/@FortuneCookie45LC

[Recycled bullet]

WHAT? Him and FortuneCookie45LC keep me entertained quite a while with reloading. https://www.youtube.com/@FortuneCookie45LCBoth were useful way back when I was just starting. Once you get past the bunny slopes of bullet casting coating and reloading they lack competence for any true learning or advancement.

Following the writings of members here on cast bullets is a technological innovation in the study and implementation of the cast lead bullet and how to use it.

Paul Harrell has a video about how to identify a fake expert which I feel explains my sentiment in a more articulate way than I am capable of.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

WHAT? Him and FortuneCookie45LC keep me entertained quite a while with reloading. https://www.youtube.com/@FortuneCookie45LC

I imagine they make a fine video, but I prefer other resources for info on reloading/shooting.
Also, while reloading/casting, I prefer audio only[no computer near that area anyway], so I have the AM radio playing my favorite talker.

[P Flados]

I don't have H110 but I do have 296 which I believe is the same thing. I agree with you on Lil Gun and will not approach that...But

One other powder I have seen a lot of around town is Longshot. I watched Elvis today and this sealed the deal and I will be trying this with Longshot for all the reasons he stated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p2SKg2fJks

Longshot is good for what I would call "midrange" loads where Unique is the traditional powder of choice for these types of loads. And there is nothing wrong with a midrange load for a 180 in a 357. The muzzle blast will be a lot less with something like Longshot.