Lube sizer VS pan lubing

[Wolfdog91]

Ok so other then sizing and lubing at once ist theri any other advantage a lube sizer has to say pan lubing then using something like the NOE sizing system? Do some lubes just plain not work with pan lubing ? Are their high velocity lubes for pan lubing ?
Thanks

[justindad]

I pan lube with FWFL, and use a cookie cutter. I read somewhere that the Lee push through die do not affect the concentricity between driving bands and boolit, but all Lube sizers do to varying degrees. Lube presses are expensive.

[Sasquatch-1]

I tried pan lubing in the past and never had a lot of luck. I would get a lot of bullets where the lube pulled away while removing them. I already had the RCBS LAM and decided there was no need to pursue pan lubing any further.

[ascast]

I don't size unless I really have too. Most in the sizer are just barely contact the bullet. Never open the mold over the pot and splash lead onto the mating surfaces causing out of round bullets. That said, depends some on what your lubing for. I don't know if guys shooting cast over 2000fps pan lube. I mostly pan lube or tumble lube everything. My BPCS stuff is basically 50/50 beeswax/criso and works OK for everything. If you have a couple dedicated pans, like shortbread tins, you can do 100 at a whack while the next 100 is melting. Then refill the holes. I modified the "kake cutter" with a plastic tube so done bullets where auto dumped to the side. With heat plate on, ice water cooling pan, and several tins, I could do several hundred in an hour. Way more than I could with a press.
Pan lubing I think generally requires a softer lube, so will be messier. And. maybe more apt to get bases lubed.

[milkman]

I have an RCBS lube machine, but I only use it for short pistol bullets. I find that it bends longer bullets and destroys accuracy. I tried lubing in a pan and pushing the bullets out or cutting them out with a cutter, I wasn't satisfied with either method. The method I settled on was a tuna can with lube in it on the heater plate of an old Mr Coffee. I then dip bullets base first into the melted lube and place them on a flat surface. I have found that if you dip cold bullets there is a heavy coat of lube which makes a mess when you size them. To avoid this I set three or four bullets around the the heater and use them sequentially which gives them time to get warm. When dipped they come out with a very light coat of lube which sizes nicely. It sounds complicated but actually goes pretty quickly. After lubing, a run through the sizer and done. Any lube will work, commercial or homemade.

[Froogal]

I tried pan lubing in the past and never had a lot of luck. I would get a lot of bullets where the lube pulled away while removing them. I already had the RCBS LAM and decided there was no need to pursue pan lubing any further.

That is pretty much the same experience I had with pan lubing. Bought the RCBS lubri-sizer and never looked back.

[Thumbcocker]

My first luring setup was a Lyman "cake cutter". Booliits were put in a small pan and lube poured around them. Them an aluminum sleeve was slid over the boolit to cut it out of the lube. This kept the lube in the grooves. There was a drive through sizer in the kit.

When you cast boolits with a dipper, a 4 pound pot, a 2 cavity mold, and size them with a mallet in a drive through sizer you really get to know them as individuals.
Pan luring will work fine as long as you have something to cut them out of the lube like a slightly bigger case or a piece of tubing that will just fit over the boolit. If you use a case drill out the flash hole and use a nail with the point ground off to push the boolit out. A piece of tubing lets the boolits come out the top.

[charlie b]

I used a cookie cutter for decades. The results were always good. But, the mess that I got in the sizing and bullet seating dies was a PITA. One of the main reasons I went to powder coating.

I had a Lyman lubesizer at one time and it worked well, but, I never spent a lot of time with it. I bought an RCBS lubesizer last year and it has enabled the use of some of my molds that became oversize with PC. I have never 'bent' a long bullet in the sizer, but, I don't try to size more than .002" or .003".

The benefit of the lubesizer over pan lube is simply less mess in the seating die. Also is easier to do than using a cookie cutter and then a sizing die. But, if you you don't need to size, then that leaves out that step as well.

I know some guys who breach seat and they just wipe some lube on the bullets before they seat them. No sizing as the bullets come out of their custom molds at the perfect size for them.

So, it is all relative to what you are trying to do.

[lar45]

https://youtu.be/-6VknyUHcFI

Carnauba Blue can be pushed to atleast 2800fps and pan lubes very well.

[ammohead]

Seeing as I have the tools I make a size/lube die to the diameter that they drop from the mould. Little to zero sizing is done but the bullet gets lubed nicely, and gas check gets seated. Then I run them nose first through a lee style die the desired diameter. No bending and the lube keeps the grooves from collapsing. Let me know if you would like a pair made.

[Bigslug]

Wolf, not a great deal to contribute directly to your question, but you might consider the NOE push-through sizer and NOE/Ranch Dog tumble lube boolit approach.

I've been using the TL310-178 as my go-to .308Win plinker, and to a lesser degree, the TL225-52RF in a K-Hornet. Shove them in a row through the sizer to seat the gas checks, then swirl them in 45/45/10 - done!

[charlie b]

Didn't answer the lube part. I've used quite a few different lubes in pan. Most of those were capable of higher rifle velocities.

The ones I have used the most are home made. Ben's Red, Lithi-Bee and Fryxell's Moly. The easiest for me are the Lithi-Bee (Lucas Red n Tacky and Beeswax) and Fryxell's (Sta-Lube Molly grease and Beeswax).

FWIW, I use a 'cookie cutter' with the pan lube. A fired .30-06 case with the base drilled out gives enough case to grip in the hand well. I've tried the methods where you cool the lube and push the bullets out, but, for me much of the time the lube is pulled from some of the grooves. I have not had good luck with tumble lube, but, others do.

[tmanbuckhunter]

Pan lube in a silicone tray, and once, and not a moment later, that the lube has solidified push them out from the nose while holding the silicone tray in your hands supporting the lube cookie. Once they're all broken free of the lube pick the lube cookie up out of the silicone tray and push the bullets out the rest of the way. That is how you get successfull, 100% lubed bullets each and every time with little mess.
316156

I lubrisize all my smokeless bullets, and bullets that require a gas check simply because I don't want to melt petroleum based lubricants in the house. Both are about equally as fast. BPCR bullets get panlubed, and shot as cast. They all have their advantages and draw backs. The only real way to know if you prefer one or the other, is to simply try them.

[paul edward]

A lubrisizer can also crimp gas checks onto cast bullets.

While the pan lube process is less costly, is also slower, messy and more work than using a lubrisizer. Depends on how many bullets you cast and your budget.

Until I got a lubrisizer I pan lubed all of my cast bullets. Had a couple of diameter-specific cookie cutters and a couple home made ones. Cast bullets were either used as-cast or, if gas checks were needed, could be sized in a Lyman 310 tool sizing die (used with adapter in a regular press). The Lee push-through sizing die will work.

[gwpercle]

Start saving you nickels and dimes .
Many years ago after trying all the pan , dip tumble and other lubing methods ...
I bought a brand new Lyman 450 lube/sizer ... it was the best thing I ever did .

Any lube hard / soft can be used . A heater can be a heat lamp or store bought heater ( I use soft lubes)
The big plus is speed ... one cycle of the handle makes a sized , lubed and if needed crimped on gas check boolit ... ready to shoot !
Set gas check in hole , place boolit on top of check , pull handle down , tweak lube supply wrench, push handle up ... You Are Done .

I can lube and size more boolits in 1 hour than you can think about doing with pan or powder coat ... it's so freaking fast .
I have always used a soft Lithium Grease (1 part) Beeswax (3 parts) Lithi-Bee Lubricant and Never experienced any leading problems .
Other lubes (sold by Lyman) have had failures but never with Lithi-Bee .
This was the best reloading purchase I ever made !
Gary

[Soundguy]

pan lube tends to work best when poured hot so that the bullet heats up.. holds the lube instead of letting it pull off. softer lubes aren't as easy to handle with pan lubing.

[Wolfdog91]

Start saving you nickels and dimes .
Many years ago after trying all the pan , dip tumble and other lubing methods ...
I bought a brand new Lyman 450 lube/sizer ... it was the best thing I ever did .

Any lube hard / soft can be used . A heater can be a heat lamp or store bought heater ( I use soft lubes)
The big plus is speed ... one cycle of the handle makes a sized , lubed and if needed crimped on gas check boolit ... ready to shoot !
Set gas check in hole , place boolit on top of check , pull handle down , tweak lube supply wrench, push handle up ... You Are Done .

I can lube and size more boolits in 1 hour than you can think about doing with pan or powder coat ... it's so freaking fast .
I have always used a soft Lithium Grease (1 part) Beeswax (3 parts) Lithi-Bee Lubricant and Never experienced any leading problems .
Other lubes (sold by Lyman) have had failures but never with Lithi-Bee .
This was the best reloading purchase I ever made !
Gary

I have two 450's actually it's just their just the sizing dies are such a pain. Everytime I go to mess with them tried to find the dies I want ,within 20min I'm back to powder coating with a NOE system.

[Wolfdog91]

Wolf, not a great deal to contribute directly to your question, but you might consider the NOE push-through sizer and NOE/Ranch Dog tumble lube boolit approach.

I've been using the TL310-178 as my go-to .308Win plinker, and to a lesser degree, the TL225-52RF in a K-Hornet. Shove them in a row through the sizer to seat the gas checks, then swirl them in 45/45/10 - done!

Got the push though system, love it , especially the fact I can incriminate go up by .001 for only $7 a bushing ...and the fact I don't have to go all over the place to get odd sizes . But do t like tumble lube..messed with some and just too messy for my liking

[ACC]

Anyone know where I can get cookie cutters for bullets?

ACC

[challenger_i]

You have a PM waiting.


Anyone know where I can get cookie cutters for bullets?

ACC

[dondiego]

Got the push though system, love it , especially the fact I can incriminate go up by .001 for only $7 a bushing ...and the fact I don't have to go all over the place to get odd sizes . But do t like tumble lube..messed with some and just too messy for my liking

You probably used too much tumble lube like everybody else at first. I haven't use my Lyman 450 in 20 years.

[charlie b]

Anyone know where I can get cookie cutters for bullets?

ACC

I always used a fired case and cut off the case head. For grip I just use a layer of duct or friction tape. For pistol bullets you can find a rifle case of the appropriate size and use it.

[justindad]

Anyone know where I can get cookie cutters for bullets?

ACC

Extremely easy to make. Cut a strip of paper from the sales receipt you got from you last visit to the grocery store. Wrap this paper tightly around an as-cast boolit until you increase the size by roughly 0.005”; it can be helpful to wet the paper with spit. Then push that paper wrapped boolit into a brass case. Pull the boolit out, and you now have an expanded cookie cutter. If it is not expanded enough, wrap more paper and repeat. If expanded too much, run through a sizing die and repeat.
*
It is good to make a cookie cutter with a long piece of brass. For example, I use a .45 Colt case for my .45 ACP cookie cutter, and a .357 Mag case for my 9mm cookie cutter.
*
You might need to drill the flash hole larger so you can use an Allen wrench to push each boolit out of the cookie cutter.

[JSnover]

Anyone know where I can get cookie cutters for bullets?

ACC

I made one years ago and don't get much use out of it anymore. It left just enough lube on the boolits to make a mess of my seating die. I don't have any silicone pans but I do use the push-through method like tmanbuckhunter. Try it both ways.

[Bigslug]

Got the push though system, love it , especially the fact I can incriminate go up by .001 for only $7 a bushing ...and the fact I don't have to go all over the place to get odd sizes . But do t like tumble lube..messed with some and just too messy for my liking

After the initial swirl in an old plastic pet treat container, I dump them out on a cookie sheet lined with baker's parchment paper. Several times during the drying cycle, I glove up and swish them around on the parchment a bit as the lube stiffens. This allows more of the runoff extra TL to build up in the grooves. Ultimately, not much excess left on the paper.

[Harter66]

I learned to paper patch to avoid gas checks .
I made Darrs lube because I had the stuff on hand . Then I fixed so it would stay put on 100° days in the desert .
I bought Lee push throughs because they were the same price as H&I pairs .........
I thumb lubed 25-30,000 bullets and sized them in the Lee dies .

Do not cheap out on gas checks !
Search passively for a lube sizer , the old Herters lubesizers come up under $50 and the second generation use the Lyman/RCBS H&I dies . Which is the vast majority of them .

There is a world of difference and it's worth it even up to $125 for the lubesizer (Lyman 450/4500) .

[rintinglen]

For me, pan lubing is too slow, especially if you are using a cookie cutter. I expect only to have 3 score and 10 years--6 months left--of life. The less time I have to spend lubing and sizing, the more other things I can find to waste my time on.;)

[porthos]

2 things. #1 how on earth can you "bend" a bullet in a lubesizer? an #2 why on earth would anyone want to pan lube; thinking that it is better?

[tmanbuckhunter]

2 things. #1 how on earth can you "bend" a bullet in a lubesizer? an #2 why on earth would anyone want to pan lube; thinking that it is better?

Very easy. Long, BPCR long range bullets cast from tin lead alloys bend in lubrisizers very easily. I've also see bullets cast from antimonial alloys get bent in a lubrisizer if they're too long/skinny. 26 and 28 caliber projectiles are notorious for it.

[charlie b]

Neither of my long 6mm or .30cal bullets have ever bent. I guess it depends on how much you are trying to size them.

[tmanbuckhunter]

Neither of my long 6mm or .30cal bullets have ever bent. I guess it depends on how much you are trying to size them.
Doesn't take much. It's less likely with antimonial alloy bullets but I've seen it happen. It's mostly a problem with BPCR long range bullets. The shortest bullet I shoot is just shy of 1.35 at 1.32", cast out of 16:1 or 20:1.

[porthos]

sorry guys. my thoughts are that if you are bending bullets; something is wrong in the sizing process. you might want to size nose first.

[justindad]

sorry guys. my thoughts are that if you are bending bullets; something is wrong in the sizing process. you might want to size nose first.

They are not actually bending - they are buckling. When a long, slender column is under compression it can buckle before it fails under compression stress.

[shooting on a shoestring]

For rifle boolits, the method of lubing is not a big deal because the number of boolits is low compared to handgun boolits.

I learned on Dad’s Lyman lubisizer and when I got out on my own I tried pan lubing (got decent but labor intensive results). I saved and bought a used Lyman soon as I could for 357/38 boolits. Slowly I added my rifle calibers to my growing collection of lubrisizer dies. I also used Lee Liquid Alox, thinned with mineral spirits and baked the coated boolits in a toaster oven. Worked fine up to 800 fps.

Then I saved and bought a new Magma Star. Best system ever! Nothing is faster. Nose or base first sizing. Checks or not. I started with my handgun boolits and it does all of them now. I still go to the Lyman for small batches (50 or less) of rifle boolits. Anything over 50 boolits is worth changing dies in the Star.

Lubrisizers don’t wear out. They’ll last way more than anyone’s lifetime of hard use. I highly recommend buying them early in life. Do the Star if you’re serious about handgunning.

[Tall]

I used this stuff and am impressed with its performance. My bullets are for 38 Short and Long Colt.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/rooster-jacket-waterproof-bull-rlrj.html