Now some Rolling Block questions....

[namsag]

OK, so moving on from my thread about chambering a Highwall in .50-70:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?457898-Can-a-Highwall-be-chambered-in-50-70

I think I'm moving away from that. I know I'm kind of alll over the place here.


What I am wanting to do (the point of all this) is to have a .50-70 rifle with a modern dimension barrel (0.510 in the grooves) vs an original rifle with barrel of .515 - .516 - .51?". It would be a general fun shooting and hog rifle, exclusively for the government 450-grain bullet. Which would mean a fairly slow twist right?

I am thinking a Rolling Block would be neat if I could find one with a good stock and action that is not scratched and pitted, and replace the barrel. But where would you get the barrel, with a slower twist for the old 450-grain government bullet. I like the old Swede rollers if I can find somebody to do the barrel work. I would guess that you could not sleeve one of those 12.7 mm barrels in .50-70?

The other option would be be to order a Shiloh Sharps. I was looking at C. Sharps but they have already told me that I can’t get a .50-70 from them in anything but 1-24”. That's all they can get from Green Mountain. I would prefer maybe a 1-36”, I think Shiloh could do that but it may take two years before they tool up to do the barrel.

I think I would rather have a weathered-looking old Roller with the new barrel, IF I can get it done.

What do you say? Any advice/experiences/recommendations appreciated.

[BLAHUT]

Where would you get the barrel ??? Green Mountain Barrels, and they can tell you the correct twist...... Make one to your specifications ???

[BLAHUT]

You can try and talk with CVA, they may sell you just a .50 barrel ??? There muzzle loaders will shoot long range...

[muskeg13]

There are others on this website that are much more knowledgeable on Swedish Rolling Blocks, but if you get a nominal .50 centerfire Swede RB, you've already got essentially a .50-70 and won't need to worry about rebarreling or relining. Case dimensions are very close. These are sometimes called 12.11x44R, 12.17x44R, or 12.7x44R (really the same cartridge) . Also the case length is sometimes listed as x42R or x42.5R since the earlier rimfires had about a 42mm case length. Not only are the cartridge designations all over the place, chamber and bore dimensions vary considerably, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Do an internet search on shooting and loading for a 12.17 or 12.7 Swedish Rolling Block and you'll learn that most of these antiques were extremely well made, still have good-excellent bores and can readily be reloaded using Buffalo Arms 12.7x44 R cases (made from .50 Alaskan these days) or self-modified .348, .50 Alaskan or .50-70 cases, using .50-70 dies, bullet molds and load data. Some original rifles may even accommodate unaltered .50-70 cartridges or have been rechambered for .50-70.

From reading multiple posts, including from this website, most bores run .49ish-.505, with grooves running up to about .512 or so. Chambers can be as short as 42mm (1.65") and up to 1.77 or more in length. Many shooters reported that .50 Alaskan brass was the easiest to convert, only having to trim to a length that will easily chamber and used .50-70 bullets sized from .510-.515. Most report that .50-70 brass will almost, but not quite, chamber, having to slightly reduce rim and base diameters.

My Swede only lacked about 1/16" with Starline .50-70 brass, but would easily chamber another brand (Dixie Gun Works I think). Since the dimensions were already so close to accepting the readily available excellent Starline .50-70 brass, I rented a reamer, removed the tiniest bit of metal, freshened it up a bit, and solved the cartridge issue forever. I don't remember now what my bore slugged at but Lyman 515141 bullets cast with soft alloy shot well. I haven't checked the rate of twist, but Cartridges of the World 3d edition lists it at 1-20, so any readily available .50-70 bullet should work. My Swede was a rimfire, but I swapped out the breechblock with the one from a Danish RB breechblock set up for either rimfire or centerfire.

You should look into getting a Swede RB. I ran across this site last week. They seem to have quite a few RBs (and LOTs of other stuff). I didn't get to bed until after 3AM, pulling up page after page of nice to have old guns. https://simpsonltd.com/search-results-page?q=rolling%20blocks

[Abert Rim]

I had John Taylor fit and chamber a Green Mountain barrel in .50-70 for a Husqvarna rolling block project. I was thrilled to have the versatile 1:24 twist.

[1Hawkeye]

I'm thinking about going down the same path you are. My grail rifle is a 74 shiloh #3 in .50-70 but I have toyed with the idea of getting an Italian rolling block and sending it to jes reboring to have Jesse turn it into a .50-70. The problem is finding a cheap roller in nice shape for the project.

[RustyReel]

Nice cheap roller???? Good luck with that.

[koger]

Go to Simpson Ltd, and get a very good bore 12.7x44R from them for $695 or so, then do some clean up on it. Like stated above, mine love the 450 gr slug, 515 sized to .512 and shoots better than I can. I had a Sharps 50/70 and sold it, the rainbow trajectory at 100 yds was crazy. I load the exact same bullet in my Husqvarna, and it shoots lights out, and completely different trajectory than the 50/70, using the same smokeless load. If you had to, you could rent a ream, ream the chamber and you have a 50/70. Knowing what I know now, I would not buy another 50/70, when good quality rollers are avaiable, cheap.

[marlinman93]

A barrel having too fast a twist is not usually a problem. It's a barrel with too slow a twist that will give you fits trying to stabilize anything except lighter bullets. I have a number of single shot rifles that have barrels built with fast twist rates to handle heavy bullets, and they still work great with pretty light bullets.
You should be able to adjust your load according to bullet weight, and still get accuracy with a variety of bullet weights. Green Mountain doesn't list anything in their BPCR barrels larger than .45 caliber. So you'd have to go to their muzzleloader barrels section to find a .50 caliber barrel, and those have extremely slow twist rates. I suppose you could call them and ask about a custom barrel, but lately they've been too busy to do anything that's not in their online catalog. BRC (Al Story) barrels might be a better option, and see if they can make a .50 with the right twist rate for a cartridge rifle.

[1Hawkeye]

Nice cheap roller???? Good luck with that.

You ain't just whistling Dixie brother. I've been looking for a while and even the beat up ones are over a thousand. I had a original Remington navy model and it shot great but those crude military sights were the reason I got rid of it. The rifle was about 90% condition and I wasn't going to drill it for a tang sight.

[namsag]

How many grooves are those Swede 12.7 mm barrels?

[RustyReel]

You ain't just whistling Dixie brother. I've been looking for a while and even the beat up ones are over a thousand. I had a original Remington navy model and it shot great but those crude military sights were the reason I got rid of it. The rifle was about 90% condition and I wasn't going to drill it for a tang sight.

Yep, I guess cheap is one of those relative terms, I have several Simpson's rollers, both 12.7s and 8mms, bought when a good shooter grade rifle was $295-325 plus $30 shipping to your door. No tax and no credit card fee. $695 plus increased shipping, plus tax, plus credit card fees for a rifle with a "fair" bore.....nope, I'm happy with what I have.

[marlinman93]

You ain't just whistling Dixie brother. I've been looking for a while and even the beat up ones are over a thousand. I had a original Remington navy model and it shot great but those crude military sights were the reason I got rid of it. The rifle was about 90% condition and I wasn't going to drill it for a tang sight.

I saw two pretty decent original Rolling Block civilian Sporting models at the Greeley, Co. CGCA show mid May. One was $850, and the other was $750. They were both in .32 Long, but the $750 was a rimfire, so would require modifying it to CF before reboring it. The other could have just been rebored, and extractor fitted to be done.
I had a friend stop by the show who wants to build up a Rolling Block, so I took him over to look at them. He passed saying he wanted to look around awhile before buying the first gun(s) he saw. He left the show, and he'll be kicking himself for passing up two pretty nice Rollers that could easily and cheaply been even better.

[Mk42gunner]

I saw two pretty decent original Rolling Block civilian Sporting models at the Greeley, Co. CGCA show mid May. One was $850, and the other was $750. They were both in .32 Long, but the $750 was a rimfire, so would require modifying it to CF before reboring it. The other could have just been rebored, and extractor fitted to be done.
I had a friend stop by the show who wants to build up a Rolling Block, so I took him over to look at them. He passed saying he wanted to look around awhile before buying the first gun(s) he saw. He left the show, and he'll be kicking himself for passing up two pretty nice Rollers that could easily and cheaply been even better.

Very true statement there. Thirty five years later I'm still kicking myself for not buying the first .35 Remington Model 14 that I actually held in my hands.

Asking price you ask? $189.99.

So goes it, I still don't have a good pump in .35 Remington.

Robert

[muskeg13]

How many grooves are those Swede 12.7 mm barrels?

6 316015

[marlinman93]

6 315987

Your link doesn't work.

[muskeg13]

Seems to now after edit and repost

[rockrat]

Find a used Pedersoli Sharps clone and send it to JES and have it re-bored and chambered in 50-70 (or 50 AK which is what I did). Pedersoli did make their Sharps clone in 50-70 if you can find one. I had one, but was concerned with putting a round for my Ruger #1 in the Sharps, so sold the Sharps. Should have done the opposite.

[John Taylor]

Cost of rollers has gone up a bunch over the years. I remember passing on a nice looking one because I didn't load 7x57. they were asking $49.

[Dutchman]

How many grooves are those Swede 12.7 mm barrels?

Swedes are 6 groove. If you look closely you may notice that the bore is eccentric... I'm hoping that won't interfere with accuracy but time will tell. If it does interfere then its a no brainer to be rebarreled at some point. Land and groove on this rifle: .467" land, .500" groove. I shoot .510" but have fired .512" in it. I shortened a barrel a couple inches so I made this one inch long section for reference.

https://images20.fotki.com/v1684/photos/4/28344/9869940/12744R1-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/rolling-block/12744r1.html)

[Bigslug]

There are quite a few .50-70 Rolling Blocks for not unreasonable money on Gunbroker at present, claiming good condition, with the sights already attached. Presumably, they knew what they were doing when they set the rate of twist for the government bullet back in the day

Accurate Molds will cut blocks for you for whatever diameter you need the bullet to drop at, and you'd want to slug it to get those measurements before ordering regardless.

Seems to me like this is not a wheel you need to reinvent.

[Bulseyetom]

I had JES reboring do a Number 5 Rolling Block that I had in 250 Savage to a 50-70. The twist is 1:24 as I remember. I had to have an extractor fitted as JES does not do that. The rifle shoots Accurate Moulds 450 and 515 gr bullets lights out with 5744 powder. The 24 twist is not a problem with those boolits at all and for sure I will not be shooting 600 grain boolits until they open up a season on Wooley Mammoths! Tom