New To Swagging!

[Three44s]

Well,

I just acquired a used set of BT Snipers swage dies. It’s the Simple line of tooling that utilizes 22 LR fired cases and produces .224” jacketed bullets and a three cavity core mold.

It’s been a long road but patience finally paid off. I recall reading about Corbin making and selling dies and presses about thirty years ago and wishing money grew on trees!

A member on here on Boolits sold them at a price I felt justified my investing in.

Saving money swagging compared to buying j-words is one metric but I value the ability to make my own regardless of shortages as well. My casting currently includes .25 caliber but no smaller and to really let a higher performance 22 Centerfire blossom, in my opinion, jacketed still reins!

Best regards

Three44s

[rancher1913]

its a deep expensive rabbit hole

[BLAHUT]

How much .22 brass you want ?

[Three44s]

How much .22 brass you want ?


I have a decent supply as I have been saving my own fired stuff since the early 90’s, more than enough to allow me to ascertain if this is going to stick (swagging) but what do you have in mind?

Three44s

[armoredman]

Can you show me how this works - is it a cheaper version of that super expensive version I also lusted over some years ago? How well do they shoot, good plinking bullets?

[BLAHUT]

I have a decent supply as I have been saving my own fired stuff since the early 90’s, more than enough to allow me to ascertain if this is going to stick (swagging) but what do you have in mind?

Three44s

I have 9 - 5 gallon pails full of 99.9% match .22 brass.

[BLAHUT]

Can you show me how this works - is it a cheaper version of that super expensive version I also lusted over some years ago? How well do they shoot, good plinking bullets?

I have seen them shoot very well at 300 meters in competition..

[Three44s]

New, this set saves money. Look at BT snipers web site or here in his Vendor Section. The BT Simple is less complicated but less sophisticated in that your choices in what you can make are fewer.

There are folks that have figured out some work around to give some more flexibility with this system.

I lucked out because the member I bought this set also sold the top and bottom bars to fit my reloading press (we happen to use the same brand and model). Plus he made and provided a pair of new press side bars to aid in leverage plus a custom press handle (I think I better not eat Wheaties and run it afterwards though).

Those top and bottom bars give you auto eject so I have that upgrade which speeds up each cycle.

But I bought a slightly used set and THAT big savings is what really clinched it for me.

I have much to learn about the processes though. Notice I use processes because the annealing and cleaning the future jackets and die adjustments are each and every one a process unto it self and caring for these expensive dies is job one.

Best regards

Three44s

[contender1]

I too recently dove into to swaging of .22 LR brass into .223 bullets. I too was able to purchase a set of Corbin dies from a FINE gentleman here. I have already made about 300 bullets,, and haven't had the time to load any & try them out,,yet. (Work, and other commitments,) but it will happen soon.

You are right,, a different learning curve,, but I too enjoy the independence of making my own.

I'm currently scrounging .22 LR brass to make more!

[armoredman]

I looked at the price and unfortunately I have to bow out. Perhaps someday, thank you very much.

[Three44s]

I looked at the price and unfortunately I have to bow out. Perhaps someday, thank you very much.

If I had not been fortunate and found the used set I just acquired I would still be on the sidelines. No doubt about it.

Three44s

[Sasquatch-1]

Can you show me how this works - is it a cheaper version of that super expensive version I also lusted over some years ago? How well do they shoot, good plinking bullets?

If you are still interested in seeing how it is done, look it up on YouTube and check out Ammo Smith reloading. I found his videos very helpful when I started. I would stay away from the regulars like Hickock and Fortune Cookie.

[Three44s]

If you are still interested in seeing how it is done, look it up on YouTube and check out Ammo Smith reloading. I found his videos very helpful when I started. I would stay away from the regulars like Hickock and Fortune Cookie.

I appreciate that tip. I have two must haves to secure: A way to anneal that’s pretty controllable and a true water tight tumbler.

If the jackets are not clean (and it seems every time you turn around they are not) then they need a run through some solution and SS pins OR they need annealing, which means they have scale on them from the previous annealing and they need tumbling ....

Jeeeze, either I have gotten the Kamala Harris “itis” and am stuck, repeating myself or this swagging business is a closed loop:

Soak head in soapy water, rinse, repeat .....

Kidding, I hope?

Three44s

[contender1]

I'm using a "Thumbler's Tumbler" to do my wet tumble of my brass. Pretty darn good about not leaking.

Then, to separate the pins from the cleaned brass,,, I use a Dillon media separator with clean water in it. I rotate the brass several times in a clean water bath, and the pins fall inside the tub. Quick & easy.
Spread them out to dry on a towel, fold the towel over, wiping them down, then transferring them to another dry towel for them to dry inside.

Finished bullets get a dry tumble in plain walnut shell media.

[Pee Wee]

I appreciate that tip. I have two must haves to secure: A way to anneal that’s pretty controllable and a true water tight tumbler.

If the jackets are not clean (and it seems every time you turn around they are not) then they need a run through some solution and SS pins OR they need annealing, which means they have scale on them from the previous annealing and they need tumbling ....

Jeeeze, either I have gotten the Kamala Harris “itis” and am stuck, repeating myself or this swagging business is a closed loop:

Soak head in soapy water, rinse, repeat .....

Kidding, I hope?

Three44s

Three44s

I started with a lee 20lb dipper pot with a steel plate over the top to keep the heat in. Fill it about 3 quarters up, go till they are glowing, you may have to stir them some. I now have a variable temperature hobby ceramic oven.

[Sasquatch-1]

If the jackets are not clean (and it seems every time you turn around they are not) then they need a run through some solution and SS pins OR they need annealing, which means they have scale on them from the previous annealing and they need tumbling ....



I built my own wet tumbler with some 4" sewage pipe, a windshield wiper motor, some inline skate wheels, quarter inch all thread and some wood. I needed a power supply and had a very old "Radio Shack" 12 volt power supply I have had forever. That and a double pole switch wired so I could reverse the motor when screwing it on and off of the drum. I tried lap top power supplies but they did not have the amps to turn the motor.

For separating pins, I bought this magnet off Amazon. Screwed a piece of 1/4" all thread where the eyebolt goes, got some 2" PVC and end cap. I drilled a hole through the end cap and ran the rod through. I got some thin plastic I had laying around and glued and taped it to the other end. With this I can run the magnet over the brass and pull most of the pins out. I pull on the rod and the magnet releases the pins.

315945

[Three44s]

I'm using a "Thumbler's Tumbler" to do my wet tumble of my brass. Pretty darn good about not leaking.

Then, to separate the pins from the cleaned brass,,, I use a Dillon media separator with clean water in it. I rotate the brass several times in a clean water bath, and the pins fall inside the tub. Quick & easy.
Spread them out to dry on a towel, fold the towel over, wiping them down, then transferring them to another dry towel for them to dry inside.

Finished bullets get a dry tumble in plain walnut shell media.

Thanks for the tip! Cleaning is definitely one of the two most Universal must to do projects in prepping rimfire fore jacket making.

Three44s

[Three44s]

Three44s

I started with a lee 20lb dipper pot with a steel plate over the top to keep the heat in. Fill it about 3 quarters up, go till they are glowing, you may have to stir them some. I now have a variable temperature hobby ceramic oven.


I will probably go the same way, use covered lead pot, then graduate to a small ceramics oven for better control.

Thanks

Three44s

[Three44s]

I built my own wet tumbler with some 4" sewage pipe, a windshield wiper motor, some inline skate wheels, quarter inch all thread and some wood. I needed a power supply and had a very old "Radio Shack" 12 volt power supply I have had forever. That and a double pole switch wired so I could reverse the motor when screwing it on and off of the drum. I tried lap top power supplies but they did not have the amps to turn the motor.

For separating pins, I bought this magnet off Amazon. Screwed a piece of 1/4" all thread where the eyebolt goes, got some 2" PVC and end cap. I drilled a hole through the end cap and ran the rod through. I got some thin plastic I had laying around and glued and taped it to the other end. With this I can run the magnet over the brass and pull most of the pins out. I pull on the rod and the magnet releases the pins.

315945

If you do not love successful improvisation stories, you just ain’t American! I like it!

I never remember it until I have a magnet fouled up with rust and dirt (when I am trying to find something ferrous on the ground) but having a rag of some sort wrapped around the magnet makes releasing the “load” much faster than picking little pieces off onesies and two sides directly off of it.

Fortunately, you have another way figured out to more easily dump your load of chips as well.

An electric magnet would also save time and frustration.

Just thinking through this chip removal though, it seems that every RF case will need a positive internal eye balling to ensure that the one in a thousand does not still harbor an SS pin or two?

I suppose the magnet should capture those sneaky cases retaining even one SS pin?

Three44s

[contender1]

I purchased a cheaper Harbor Freight "quick release magnet" many years ago. While I'd prefer the magnet to be a little stronger,, it's similar to what Sasquatch-1 did. I haven't tried to use it to see if I've missed any pins in my cleanings. Usually a very vigorous water tumble seems to do it perfectly. (But never say never.)
I'll try my cheaper magnet by placing a pin inside a brass case to see what happens.

[Ajax111]

After the wash I lay my jackets out on a towel. I then run the magnet though the cases and it picks up most of the ss pins.
After they dry, I run my magnet through the jackets again. If the pins don't come out the magnet is strong enough to pick the jacket and pins up together.
After two runs throughs, I don't have to do many by hand.

[Three44s]

I purchased a cheaper Harbor Freight "quick release magnet" many years ago. While I'd prefer the magnet to be a little stronger,, it's similar to what Sasquatch-1 did. I haven't tried to use it to see if I've missed any pins in my cleanings. Usually a very vigorous water tumble seems to do it perfectly. (But never say never.)
I'll try my cheaper magnet by placing a pin inside a brass case to see what happens.

That’s a good test!

Thanks

Three44s

[Three44s]

After the wash I lay my jackets out on a towel. I then run the magnet though the cases and it picks up most of the ss pins.
After they dry, I run my magnet through the jackets again. If the pins don't come out the magnet is strong enough to pick the jacket and pins up together.
After two runs throughs, I don't have to do many by hand.

That works for me! I could see running a stronger magnet over the brass for a verification run as it were to find a suspicious casing.

Best regards

Three44s

[BLAHUT]

I too recently dove into to swaging of .22 LR brass into .223 bullets. I too was able to purchase a set of Corbin dies from a FINE gentleman here. I have already made about 300 bullets,, and haven't had the time to load any & try them out,,yet. (Work, and other commitments,) but it will happen soon.

You are right,, a different learning curve,, but I too enjoy the independence of making my own.

I'm currently scrounging .22 LR brass to make more!

Only problem I have seen in using .22 brass in .223, a tight barrel and the bullets, the jackets get cut through and the bullets explode at high speed. I have brass, depends on what you want and how to get it to you ?

[Three44s]

Only problem I have seen in using .22 brass in .223, a tight barrel and the bullets, the jackets get cut through and the bullets explode at high speed. I have brass, depends on what you want and how to get it to you ?

I wonder if in the case of a tight barrel (tearing up thin jackets) if some fire or conventional lapping could help?

Also, I sent a PM enquiring about your brass (what are you asking and what brand). I did a PM because of forum rules and not turning this section in to a de facto classified section.

Three44s

[GONRA]

GONRA probably missed this in all above -
but get a CORBIN'S CSP-2 hand press for yer projects......

[Sasquatch-1]

Just thinking through this chip removal though, it seems that every RF case will need a positive internal eye balling to ensure that the one in a thousand does not still harbor an SS pin or two?

I suppose the magnet should capture those sneaky cases retaining even one SS pin?

Three44s

I do not make 22 bullets and use the before mentioned method when making 44's out of 40's and when cleaning center fire brass. I will take a good size towel and dump the brass on the towel and then run the magnet over it to get most of the pins. I will then hold the towel like a hammock and roll the brass back and forth and this gets a lot more pins out. I do this a couple of times and then visually inspect the cases. I then throw them in the dry tumbler with some New Finish to dry them off help keep them bright longer.

[Three44s]

Sasquatch-1,

That makes sense. A .40 casing is not going to hide those pins like a 22 rimfire might and your rolling in a towel plus the magnet is going to make any “fugitives” pretty non-existant. Visual inspection is easier.

To tell the truth, I might even be barking up the wrong tree as I have to settle down and read more on this forum and elsewhere as pins might not even be the standard fare for my area I am working in.

I will note that .44 is one of my favorite areas to play in and as a caster I am curious why make jacketed bullets when cast alone is so successful? Are you shooting revolvers or an autoloader?

In my instance, varminting with smaller calibers is “the other hat” and I see casting with the small bores as getting much less practical than jacketed bullets. I presently have bottomed out at .25 caliber and in smaller case capacities at that in cast but in my 44 revolvers, it’s cast or bust.

Not being offensive but just curious.

Best regards

Three44s

[contender1]

Three44's,, you & I must be kin in some form.
:D :D

I too prefer cast over jacketed in most cases for my handgun choices. But in .223,, jacketed is where I like to be. I do have a set of bullet making dies from BT to turn .9mm into .40 cal bullets,, because when I got into using a LOT of .40 cal stuff, (USPSA) cast bullet lube caused too much smoke, which cost me time in a course of fire. I went to plated, then jacketed & such. Then PCing came along. Back to cast & PCing.
But I have the stuff to make jacketed bullets in .40 AND .44 from other brass. My first BT set was purchased directly, and love them. My second set,, was found in a SUPER cheap deal and I just could not pass it up.

But the use of jacketed in .223 cal bullets was where I also wanted to get into swaging my own. I have a .222 Rem bolt gun, and a few .223 guns,, so,,,, when my set of swaging dies was made available,, I purchased them. I'm not looking to make competition match grade bullets,, but I am wanting to make varmint killers.

But back to making sure all the pins are out of those small cases.
Once dry,, a second quick tumble in a dry media separator can also be a way to allow those pins to fall out w/o the potential of missing one stuck in a case.

I know that many folks may not want to invest in different media separators or different tumblers to make it easier. Plus,, many are on a budget. I've just been lucky enough to where,, over the MANY years,, I've accumulated (3) Dillon media separators, (4) Thumbler Tumblers, and (4) vibrating cleaners. Plus extra tubs for the vibrating ones. My brass cleaning area, also is used as my PCing area. Two tables full.
But a media separator is CHEAP when compared to the cost of a ruined swaging die.

[Three44s]

Contender1,

Ah, that makes sense about the smoke in competition!

The die damage was my concern about a stray pin remaining.

I agree that the added steps to protect them (the dies) is a wise investment in money and time.

This swagging is a whole new world and I have plenty of factory bullets in .224” to hold me until I get my act together.

The member I bought them from is most helpful as well as he is getting deeper into the swagging world and quite accessible on advice.

Thank you for the continued advice, it is most instructive

Three44s

[Sasquatch-1]

Sasquatch-1,


I will note that .44 is one of my favorite areas to play in and as a caster I am curious why make jacketed bullets when cast alone is so successful? Are you shooting revolvers or an autoloader?

I have a Desert Eagle and during the Obama years I couldn't find the heavy jacketed bullets I needed. So I bit the Bullet (Pun Intended) and purchase some used D. Corbin equipment.

The DE being partially gas operated and having polygonal rifling did not work well with cast bullets.

The spent bullets are also a conversation piece on the steel plate range.

[Three44s]

Ah that makes sense!

I have a Desert Eagle in 44 story of sorts.

A neighbor bought a Bushnell holosight (mostly same as an EOTECH) used from a guy who used it on his Desert Eagle in 44 mag.

I bought it from the neighbor (he never mounted it or fiddled with it.

I mounted it on my Ruger Redhawk (44) fired the first shot and it was DEAD ON at 30 yds, launched a golf ball out of sight!

I was kind of miffed, no excuse to keep shooting!

I have no idea whether the previous owner was a right or left handed shooter (I am left handed) but it’s all sort of amazing (think of the odds).

Three44s

[contender1]

Once again,, you & I are so similar in thoughts & such.
I too have a good supply of factory .223 bullets. And I too have began my adventure into swaging bullets for .223. I'm new to it as well. And yes,, pin damage is a concern for those expensive dies.
And I'm the type that likes to work smarter,, not harder anytime I can. A spare media separator, an extra tumbler, or whatever to me,, is not only cheap insurance,, but a time saver.
A magnet checking method is a good idea,, but before I do that,, once dried,, they go back into a dry separator to dislodge any pins & allow them to fall out.

[Three44s]

contender1,

There is a lot of preparations to do before I get to swaging.

Three44s

[Three44s]

In reading about 22 rimfire spent casing prep to make into jackets and wondering about whether it is best to clean, derim and then anneal or anneal before derim?

Also, I have a ultra sonic (HF) cleaner. Is that good enough to use prior to deriming? I figure that removing the scale from annealing will require a true tumbler.

Three44s

[MUSTANG]

In reading about 22 rimfire spent casing prep to make into jackets and wondering about whether it is best to clean, derim and then anneal or anneal before derim?

Also, I have a ultra sonic (HF) cleaner. Is that good enough to use prior to deriming? I figure that removing the scale from annealing will require a true tumbler.

Three44s

Derim before annealing. Otherwise; increased probability/potential that the Punch/Pin will push the bottom off the case/jacket; or leave a portion Tear where the rim was.

[wilecoyote]

...Also, I have a ultra sonic (HF) cleaner. Is that good enough to use prior to deriming? I figure that removing the scale from annealing will require a true tumbler.
Three44s
...leaving brass indefinitely immersed in hot water + liquid dishwasher (I also do it in white vinegar, but I would not recommend it here) can greatly simplify and speed up the subsequent ultrasonic cleaner work_

[Three44s]

Derim before annealing. Otherwise; increased probability/potential that the Punch/Pin will push the bottom off the case/jacket; or leave a portion Tear where the rim was.

Thanks, I have heard that!

Three44s

[Three44s]

...leaving brass indefinitely immersed in hot water + liquid dishwasher (I also do it in white vinegar, but I would not recommend it here) can greatly simplify and speed up the subsequent ultrasonic cleaner work_

Thanks, that makes sense as well. I will probably stick with just water and soak, no vinegar for now. I might try a small batch of nasty looking 223 brass that way though!

Three44s

[wilecoyote]

Thanks, that makes sense as well. I will probably stick with just water and soak, no vinegar for now. I might try a small batch of nasty looking 223 brass that way though!

Three44s

...boiling them some minute in hot w. and dw.liquid even better, just in case.
(I do it before ultrasonic cleaning my S&W.40s) _

[contender1]

I have picked up a batch of .22 brass that has turned a dull blackish color from exposure to weather. Along with all that,, I like to take fired brass,, or whatever,, and clean the .22 RF brass first. THEN I de-rim.
And as noted,, then you anneal the brass.
When you anneal the brass,, it's also burn off the lube used to de-rim.

I used my new pot yesterday to anneal a bunch of de-rimmed brass. Afterwards,, I ran them through a good wet tumble cleaning. SS pins, LemiShine, water & about 30-40 minutes, & they were all nice & shiny.

Gently poured off the dirty water first. Then I dumped the pins & brass in my Dillon separator, and used clean water to rinse AND allow the pins to fall into the tub. After many good rotations of the separator,, I pulled it out,, and shook it until almost all the water was out. Then, into a second tub of clean water. A good second rinse,, and tumble.
My first run removed all but (1) pin. And that was with (2) separate batches of brass.
After shaking off the excess water from the second rinse,, I poured them into a container,, to transport them to a dry towel,, where I spread them out, folded the towel over them, and let the towel absorb a lot of the water.
I then, moved them off the damp area of the towel, and allowed them to air dry a bit. Later,,, I placed them into a dry cardboard box lid,, and spread them out to allow even more drying.
This morning,, I took a magnet, and carefully & slowly run it over all of the pins. Not a single pin was found.
Upon all that,, I shook them around in the box lid,, and poured them across a few containers a bit. Still no pins.
They are now ready for my next step.

So, as they sit in an open dry tub,, I went to cutting cores for them. I still have a bunch to cut & swage to the correct weight. Once I have a bunch done,, I'll be adding them to the jackets.