Well that wasn't supposed to work

[Wolfdog91]

Well that's wasn't supposed to work but cast bullets are weird so figured why not [emoji1787] Found out my little H&R .22 hornet LOVES lower velocity cast bullets compared to jacketed.
Common consensus is : .22 Hornet = slow twist barrel = need to use light bullets. Well the lee 55gr RF was the lightest cast bullet mold I have so of course that's primarily what I've been playing with . And so far it's been doing pretty good 1" and under at 50yd is just the norm rocking around the 1700fps mark. I've pushed these same cast bullets up to 2500fps with no leading but no real need for that on this . Honestly bought this little gun for a 50-75yd varminter. Wanted something with more punch then a .22lr but less power then a .223 so. Also loved the idea of having somthing small that didn't need a lot of powder or lead and I could reload for little to nothing.
Anyhow once I got the lee worked out pretty well I had some MP .227 63gr HP's I had cast last night on the bench and I thought " well why not ? What's the worst that could happen ". And after talking to and studying guys who shoot cast bullets in competition (rifle especially.223 )it's become pretty obvious that cast bullets operate a bit different. Normally for a 63gr bullet to work well you'd need like a 1:8 twist but with cast most guys who are shooting tiny groups are used anywhere from 1:10-1:16. So the same load of 6.2gr of lil gun ( best cast powder I've found for MY hornet so far. Burns way cleaner then 4227 and H110) tweaked my CBTO so my bullet is just about to kiss the lands ( and I have to say it's a bit of a pain with when your deal with and H&R with and Ejector [emoji58]) and well, it shouldn't work but it did ! Pretty happy to say the least lol ! The recovered MP bullets expanded pretty nicely ( alloy is close to about 90% clip on wheel weights with the rest being stick on WW. Air cooled after casting and PC instead of my usual double water quenching)
Anyhow I love it when experiments work out like this [emoji16]
P.S if y'all don't have one, do yourselfes a big favor and get some of the NOE expander plug kits makes the lee universal flare die look like a joke and just makes loading cast SOOO MUCH NICER !
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[Wolfdog91]

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[BK7saum]

Twist required for stabilization is related to bullet length, not weight. for conventional cup amd core jacketed bullets we are all aware that a certain twist limits us to bullets at x weight or below. Cast bullets do not follow the form factor of jacketed bullets, (they are shorter for a given weight) and a certain twist will stabilize the heavier cast bullet but not a lighter (LONGER) jacketed bullet.

Great job by the way in wringing out the best from the hornet.

[missionary5155]

Howdy Wolfdog
That all blesses my heart to read. Your smile tells the whole story !
Your reason for a 22 Hornet reflects our own getting for one some years back. Our general hunting in normally well under 50 yards in river bottoms / thickets. Accuracy is far more important. A FN cast is all that is required for 15 - 40 pound critters we are going to thwap with our Hornets.
We do shoot our 32-20's a bit more than the Hornets but there really is no reason as they both get the job done equally well. Shot placement is king !

[ShooterAZ]

Nice workup and writeup Wolfdog, thank you for sharing your tips & tricks. I shoot the Hornet in a 14" Contender for Silhouette. My favorite boolit thus far has been the RCBS 22-55-SP. I have some Lil' Gun, may have to give it a try in in my Hornet. My experience with it has been that it really heats barrels up in short order.

[dtknowles]

Awesome, very nice and a good write up too.

[bedbugbilly]

Enjoyed your write up and photos very much! Love it when something like that works out so well and I'll bet it's been a lot of fun along the way! That's a well deserved smile and a great target - look forward to hearing more and seeing more photos.

[jimb16]

Minute of chipmunk accuracy! Looks like you hit the winning combination!

[rancher1913]

hey aint you supposed to be on a barg :mrgreen:

[sukivel]

I’ve been wanting to experiment with my NOE 22-55 clone in my H&R hornet, and now I have hope!!!

I’ll be loading some up in a few days…


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[billmc2]

Don't cha just love it when a plan comes together?

[M-Tecs]

Twist required for stabilization is related to bullet length, not weight. for conventional cup amd core jacketed bullets we are all aware that a certain twist limits us to bullets at x weight or below. Cast bullets do not follow the form factor of jacketed bullets, (they are shorter for a given weight) and a certain twist will stabilize the heavier cast bullet but not a lighter (LONGER) jacketed bullet.

Great job by the way in wringing out the best from the hornet.

Spot on

This Berger Chart https://bergerbullets.com/information/lines-and-designs/bullet-reference-charts/ accurately lists the recommended minimum twist for their jacketed bullets. As stated, the twist required for shorter for weight cast bullets will be slower than normal jacketed bullets and even slower when compared to VLD's designs.

In the 5.56/.223 a 12 twist will generally handle jacketed non-VLD's bullets up to 62 grains. Serria recommends a 10 twist for the 22 Cal 69 grain MatchKings.

[charlie b]

Congrats! Looks like a cute little combo and shoots well too!

[Texas by God]

Thanks for sharing this.
I’m using the 55 gr Lee Bator PC’d and sized .225” with Sages aluminum checks.
From my 1-14” twist .218 Bee conversion, I’m getting groups like yours at 40 yards.
I don’t have a chronograph, but I’m guessing 1600-1700 fps with 4.6 grs of Unique and CCI SPM primers.
Your bullets are very nice looking compared to mine!


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[gwpercle]

Good Post !
LIKE! LIKE! LIKE!

Shooting Cast Boolits is like a box of chocolates ... you just don't know what you gonna get ... till you try one !

Enjoyed the post WolfDog ... Keep On Keeping On !

I've been thinking / wanting a H&R or NEF single shot rifle for years ... but I can't decide on which caliber and a "deal I can't refuse" hasn't come along yet ... Rifle cal , handgun cal , large bore , small bore ...
there are just too many to choose from !
Is 22 cal large enough ... is 45 cal too big ... Oh Me , Oh My , what's a boolit caster to do :???:
Gary

[TD1886]

Twist required for stabilization is related to bullet length, not weight. for conventional cup amd core jacketed bullets we are all aware that a certain twist limits us to bullets at x weight or below. Cast bullets do not follow the form factor of jacketed bullets, (they are shorter for a given weight) and a certain twist will stabilize the heavier cast bullet but not a lighter (LONGER) jacketed bullet.

Great job by the way in wringing out the best from the hornet.

Consequently the two, weight and length, are tied together. A heavier bullet is going to be longer or in reverse a longer bullet is going to be heavier. There are exceptions such as if you're using a very heavir material for the bullet such as depleted Uranium. Also you can shorten a heavy bullet by making it a semi-point. The Sierra 64 grain semi-point is an example of that. Copper solids also change things.

[TD1886]

Wolfdog91 that was a good post and with nice pictures. I've been doing this for decades and back when I was doing nobody wanted to believe it. I've shot up to 72 grain cast bullets in my 22 Hornet with very good accuracy at 50 yards. Everyone would have to admit that with that weight bullet that does equal the lengths of jacketed bullets. Yes my Hornet is a 16 twist. I've also shot 150 grain cast bullet from my M1 Carbine.

A test I did with my 260 Remington with a 10 twist was to keep loading DOWN a 6.5 CruiseMissile bullet which I believe weights around 172 grains. I wanted to see where it would become destablizied. We know that the 6.5 cartridges generally have fast twist like 7.5 in the 6.5x55 Swede so I was surprised my 10 twist 260 worked any at all. Well anyhow I had to get the velocity down to 1350 fps before the bullet went sideways in the target. I had the target relatively close. That way I would know it was twist not the distance that caused it.

There are too many twist guru's on this forum that would lead you to believe different.

Again great shoot and have fun with it.

[mvozz]

I have a Ruger #3 22 Hornet that is my favorite "Fun Gun", but I have never tried any bullets above 50 grain. I have some Lil' Gun and a NOE 60 Grain mould that may have to be my next experiment!! Thanks for your write up!

[WRideout]

Your description of shooting that Hornet rifle almost makes me want to give up my obsession with 30 cal pistols. A single shot is all you need if you are a good enough shot yourself.

Wayne

[whisler]

I like the way your thinking outside the box put your shots inside the (target) box. Good job!

[Larry Gibson]

Stability for a given caliber is dependent upon the length of the bullet, not the weight of the bullet. Most of the cast 22 cal bullets I use in my 22 cals, including my 3 Hornets, are shorter than their jacketed counterparts and stabilize well in 12 through 16" twist barrels. The heavier, longer cast bullets, while shooting well at 50 yards when pushed at 1500 - 1800 fps out of 16" twists, can fall apart accuracy wise at 100 yards.

[StrawHat]

I like that your loaded cartridges resemble miniature copies of the 375 Flanged Magnum. I shall have to give them a try in my Springfield 1922.

Kevin

[popper]

Bullet stability is a function of forward fps and rotational rpm. Slower twist often get best accuracy with cast as less damage is done to the bullet engraving the lands. Lilgun tends to heat the barrel fast. I've been working with 300BO and WSF under a 145gr (lightest mold I have) for 'fun' cheap shooting in CVA scout. Accuracy isn't where I want it yet but it is fun.
Lee flare die is just that, flaring tool. You need the proper expander anyway.

[TD1886]

Bullet stability is a function of forward fps and rotational rpm. Slower twist often get best accuracy with cast as less damage is done to the bullet engraving the lands. Lilgun tends to heat the barrel fast. I've been working with 300BO and WSF under a 145gr (lightest mold I have) for 'fun' cheap shooting in CVA scout. Accuracy isn't where I want it yet but it is fun.
Lee flare die is just that, flaring tool. You need the proper expander anyway.

LiL Gun is great powder, BUT it's downright dangerous in certain cartridges. Ask Larry Gibson and I'm not taking a swipe at him. He and I know something about this.

[TD1886]

Stability for a given caliber is dependent upon the length of the bullet, not the weight of the bullet. Most of the cast 22 cal bullets I use in my 22 cals, including my 3 Hornets, are shorter than their jacketed counterparts and stabilize well in 12 through 16" twist barrels. The heavier, longer cast bullets, while shooting well at 50 yards when pushed at 1500 - 1800 fps out of 16" twists, can fall apart accuracy wise at 100 yards.

Dead on Larry. Been trying to tell gun people that since ever. Like I had said when a bullet is made heavier it becomes longer. Yes, it's the length that rules.

[jsizemore]

Since your shooting a single shot, try sizing only part of the neck. I used to do that for my contender when I shot silhouette. Groups got more better and the flyers went away. Of course we're talking once or twice fired brass fired in your rifle.

[725]

WolfDog91

Always enjoy your write-ups. Congrats on this one. Hard to beat an H&R / NEF for fun shooting. Now I gotta dig out my .223.

[405grain]

Great shooting. Those loads are a winner. I'd like to see how they'll group at 100 yards? It's just such a lucky combination when you get a gun that will shoot cast as good or better than jacketed.

I've got a buddy that shoots 218 Bee. When he's using moderate charges of Lil gun things seem fine. But when he increases the charge even a little bit (no where near listed max loads) he starts getting pierced primers and pressure signs. Just saying: if you're getting good accuracy with Lil gun & everything's fine, then keep using it. If you want to push for higher velocities you might consider using a different powder. A thousand guys might chime in and say that they've shot hot loads with this powder and have no problem, but in my experience I've seen otherwise.

[dverna]

I am impressed. My .22 Hornet in the same platform was not very accurate even with jacketed bullets.

I thought it would be a neat rifle, but I could not get mine to shoot. You are doing very well!

I ended up just moving to .223’s. I found I had no need for something between a .22 LR and .223.