Glock and cast

[wolfwing]

I have a buddy with a Glock 10mm (whatever that model number is), that wants some "bear loads". After a long discussion that a 10mm IS NOT a bear round, I agreed to load some for him.
I remember reading that Glocks shouldn't shoot cast. Is this due to the polygonal rifling?? Will PC or other coatings make it acceptable??

I don't want to get into a bear gun discussion here. We live in one of the 3 lower 48 states that has a grizzly problem. If we were in one of the other 45 states that only had black bears, maybe I could be convinced that a 10mm is enough.

[TD1886]

I have a buddy with a Glock 10mm (whatever that model number is), that wants some "bear loads". After a long discussion that a 10mm IS NOT a bear round, I agreed to load some for him.
I remember reading that Glocks shouldn't shoot cast. Is this due to the polygonal rifling?? Will PC or other coatings make it acceptable??

I don't want to get into a bear gun discussion here. We live in one of the 3 lower 48 states that has a grizzly problem. If we were in one of the other 45 states that only had black bears, maybe I could be convinced that a 10mm is enough.

Razor Dobbs killed two Cape Buffaloes with a 10mm 1911 using hard cast bullets. I think it would get a bears attention for sure.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Glock, like most all gun manufacturers say not to shoot reloads in their guns.
I'm not sure why the Glock myth carries over, but doesn't for other guns?
I've loaded a bunch of 40 cal for a Magnum Research baby eagle with polygonal rifling, once I got the correct size bullet and correct size brass expander, I never had problems.

Use the same 'rules' to loading cast for Glocks, as you would loading cast for other semi-auto pistols and you will be fine, or ummm, your buddy will be fine.

Side Note:
I had a friend want to load a 220gr bullet in the 10mm just for the purpose your buddy states. He bought some commercial bullets and asked my opinion on loads. I couldn't find any published loads. I explained how to work up a load and suggested AA#5 due to it's density. He got nervous and asked me to load some and work up a load for him. I told him no. He found someone else to load 'em for him...I haven't been told yet, how that worked out.

[TD1886]

Glock, like most all gun manufacturers say not to shoot reloads in their guns.
I'm not sure why the Glock myth carries over, but doesn't for other guns?
I've loaded a bunch of 40 cal for a Magnum Research baby eagle with polygonal rifling, once I got the correct size bullet and correct size brass expander, I never had problems.

Use the same 'rules' to loading cast for Glocks, as you would loading cast for other semi-auto pistols and you will be fine, or ummm, your buddy will be fine.

Side Note:
I had a friend want to load a 220gr bullet in the 10mm just for the purpose your buddy states. He bought some commercial bullets and asked my opinion on loads. I couldn't find any published loads. I explained how to work up a load and suggested AA#5 due to it's density. He got nervous and asked me to load some and work up a load for him. I told him no. He found someone else to load 'em for him...I haven't been told yet, how that worked out.

Jon I'm going to send you a pm on what the story is on Glock nothing wanting us to shoot cast.

[mehavey]

Glock's Polygonal Rifling is at the base of the don't-use-cast mantra,
But read this article before taking that as Gospell
https://www.targetbarn.com/broad-side/polygonal-rifling/

Note that Powder-Coating changed the game all-round.
(...and personally I'm shooting 147gr PC'd* for spotless bores/no issues)

*Cast Lym#2/Eastwood Red Flame/Translucent that I both cast/apply
myself so I know what I've got.

.

[Txcowboy52]

I’ve shot thousands of rounds of .40 cal in a Glock pistol, all reloads using cast and powder coated bullets with no issues.

[TD1886]

Glock's Polygonal Rifling is at the base of the don't-use-cast mantra,
But read this article before taking that as Gospell
https://www.targetbarn.com/broad-side/polygonal-rifling/

Note that Powder-Coating changed the game all-round.
(...and personally I'm shooting 147gr PC'd* for spotless bores/no issues)

*Cast Lym#2/Eastwood Red Flame/Translucent that I both cast/apply
myself so I know what I've got.

.

Yeah well that link you gave is purely BS and wrong. When they said with conventional rifling if the barrel leads it's easy to clean it out. Again, yeah well that depends on the severity of the leading. They are telling you that cast bullets are lubed and shouldn't be leaving any leading if they are properly assembled with means a whole lot of things such as bullet alloy, diameter of the bullet, velocity range, the type of lube used, etc. Just another internet myth. It simply boils down to liability lawsuits and Glock doesn't want any. I've only seen one manual for a firearm that listed that you could shoot ANY kind of ammo through it and that was my manual for the Springfield National Match M1 A.

[mehavey]

Yeah well that link you gave is purely BS and wrong.
What part of ...

But read this article before taking that as Gospel
... was unclear ?

But certainly an interesting reaction... I admit... given the bottom line:

(...and personally I'm shooting 147gr PC'd* for spotless bores/no issues)


Y`all take care now, Heaah ?
:drinks:



postscript: Possibly I'm just lucky, but in over 50 years of casting, I've only had two instances of leading -- both my fault -- and both easily resolved with Chore-Boy on a brass brush

[mehavey]

Of note from the NRA:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/should-you-shoot-lead-bullets-in-glock-barrels/
The reasons polygonal barrels and lead bullets don’t work well together stem from the sizing and hardness of the bullets, as well as the manner in which polygonal barrels impart spin on the bullet to ensure stability and accuracy.

For lead bullets to work satisfactorily in a polygonal barrel, they have to be on the higher end of the hardness scale and loaded to moderate pressures. There is a fairly fine line between success and failure in this arena.

Unlike conventionally rifled barrels with lands and grooves that engrave their twist pattern into the bullet, polygonal rifling is relatively smooth and imparts its spin to the bullet by swaging its twist pattern onto the projectile. This leaves less of a mark than conventional rifling and minimizes deformation to the exterior of the bullet. All but the hardest and properly sized lead bullets tend to skid on polygonal rifling, leaving unwanted deposits that build up over a relatively small number of shots
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ya kinda gotta know what you're doing/what you're dealing with in that kind of potential situation.
If you do, and actually build to it, little problem.
But if not....

(and what % of run-of-the mill "Glock owners" are Cast Boolits readers ...do you think ?)
:coffeecom

[TD1886]

Of note from the NRA:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/should-you-shoot-lead-bullets-in-glock-barrels/
The reasons polygonal barrels and lead bullets don’t work well together stem from the sizing and hardness of the bullets, as well as the manner in which polygonal barrels impart spin on the bullet to ensure stability and accuracy.

For lead bullets to work satisfactorily in a polygonal barrel, they have to be on the higher end of the hardness scale and loaded to moderate pressures. There is a fairly fine line between success and failure in this arena.

Unlike conventionally rifled barrels with lands and grooves that engrave their twist pattern into the bullet, polygonal rifling is relatively smooth and imparts its spin to the bullet by swaging its twist pattern onto the projectile. This leaves less of a mark than conventional rifling and minimizes deformation to the exterior of the bullet. All but the hardest and properly sized lead bullets tend to skid on polygonal rifling, leaving unwanted deposits that build up over a relatively small number of shots
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ya kinda gotta know what you're doing/what you're dealing with in that kind of potential situation.
If you do, and actually build to it, little problem.
But if not....

(and what % of run-of-the mill "Glock owners" are Cast Boolits readers ...do you think ?)
:coffeecom

I must know what I'm doing LOL. I've shot soft to hard cast bullets from both of those strange riflings with zero leading and zero problems. One of them is an HK UMP, boy is that sucker accurate!!

[mehavey]

...LOL....Mr, TD1886, we're done.
Others, do as you deem appropriate.

[dondiego]

I have a Glock 22 and an H&K UMP in 45 ACP and have shot cast out of both. I inspect and clean as necessary. Not too often though actually.

[TD1886]

Mr, TD1886, we're done.
Others, do as you deem appropriate.

Mr mehavey, well at least you called me mister. Hey no hard feelings. I have an inside the industry reason why Glock did what they did about shooting cast. I'm not at liberty to post it on a public forum.

[TD1886]

I have a Glock 22 and an H&K UMP in 45 ACP and have shot cast out of both. I inspect and clean as necessary. Not too often though actually.

I agree with you, it's to the point now I hardly ever check. Although not any funny rifling I have Thompson and the dang thing is minute of beer can easy. Lot's of fun, but heavy and lousy trigger.

[dondiego]

I agree with you, it's to the point now I hardly ever check. Although not any funny rifling I have Thompson and the dang thing is minute of beer can easy. Lot's of fun, but heavy and lousy trigger.

The blow ups with cast were when people leaded the barrels so badly that they caused an increase in pressure. That's just strange.

[farmbif]

right after I bought a Glock I bought a couple storm lake barrels to go with it because I knew that I may never fire a jacketed bullet though it. storm lake is gone now but KKm, lone wolf, bar sto, brownells and others still make drop in barrels for Glocks most will probably give you better accuracy than a stock Glock barrel

[TD1886]

The blow ups with cast were when people leaded the barrels so badly that they caused an increase in pressure. That's just strange.

That's a so so explanation, but not the real cause.

[TD1886]

right after I bought a Glock I bought a couple storm lake barrels to go with it because I knew that I may never fire a jacketed bullet though it. storm lake is gone now but KKm, lone wolf, bar sto, brownells and others still make drop in barrels for Glocks most will probably give you better accuracy than a stock Glock barrel

I have a Lone Wolf 10mm on my long slide clone Glock upper. Don't count on Glock barrels aren't accurate. I have Glock 21 45acp that hold it's own in 1911 matches. I built a Glock 17 that's pretty darn accurate with cast too! That one has a match trigger on it from Double Diamond. I believe if the NYC police department that half of them would shoot themselves, the trigger is very light.

[Cast10]

My Glock 20, stock, shoots 10mm cast powder coated boolits.

[Lloyd Smale]

bought a wolf barrel for my glock 20 and sold it because the factory barrel shot better. ive got 13 glocks and they all shoot cast. only jacked is for carry ammo.

[Lloyd Smale]

The blow ups with cast were when people leaded the barrels so badly that they caused an increase in pressure. That's just strange.

that and the early gens had unsupported chambers and were unforgiving with to warm of a load

[mehavey]

As mentioned previously, PC'g ameliorated the issue
-- such as it was -- and I haven't heard of any issues...
... lately. :drinks:

[dondiego]

that and the early gens had unsupported chambers and were unforgiving with to warm of a load

Yep, I forgot to mention the unsupported chambers.

[TD1886]

bought a wolf barrel for my glock 20 and sold it because the factory barrel shot better. ive got 13 glocks and they all shoot cast. only jacked is for carry ammo.

I won't lie and tell you that the Lone Wolf 10mm isn't stellar! Who knows maybe some day I'll put a Glock barrel in it.

[jdgabbard]

I have a buddy with a Glock 10mm (whatever that model number is), that wants some "bear loads". After a long discussion that a 10mm IS NOT a bear round, I agreed to load some for him.
I remember reading that Glocks shouldn't shoot cast. Is this due to the polygonal rifling?? Will PC or other coatings make it acceptable??

I don't want to get into a bear gun discussion here. We live in one of the 3 lower 48 states that has a grizzly problem. If we were in one of the other 45 states that only had black bears, maybe I could be convinced that a 10mm is enough.

Just so you're aware, the 10mm is very well regarded in Alaska as a personal defensive sidearm for bears. I once read that Glock actually sends the majority of the Glock 40s to Alaska - where people use them specifically for this purpose. It actually is nearly identical in ballistics to Elmer's proposed 41 Special (200gr @ 1200fps), which he suggested would be a perfect defensive round. I hear the Buffalo Bore cast loads are very popular.

As to Glocks and Cast, some guys have had luck with them - with factory barrels as I understand it. It used to be guys who would run cast would buy aftermarket barrels for use with them. I'm not sure what the current practice is. And I'm not certain how available those aftermarket barrels are in 10mm. But I'm certain it can be done.

[mdi]

Here is some info on the "Glock vs cast lead" issue from this forum 15 years ago. FWIW. my 9mm Masada with a poly barrel has fired quite a few cast bullets (Lee 125 RNF) with no dangerous leading. Same as my 4 other 9mm pistols; correct size, decent lube, good alloy, and published loads... https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?33855-The-Truth-about-Glocks-and-Cast

[W.R.Buchanan]

I commented on this BS in my first post here in 2008, and I carried it over from Trapshooters.com when Don Verna told me about this place.

Like all other guns, if the bullet fit is right there won't be any leading. But you actually need to look at your barrel, like take it out of the gun and look at it, after shooting some of your loads to confirm what is happening. Kind of like any other gun?

Now on to the Infamous, "Glock Unsupported Chamber" we've heard so much about. This was only a problem with Gens 1&2 .40 S&W. The "Unsupported" part was at the juncture of the Feed Ramp and the chamber itself.

It was modified in the Gen 3 guns, but the real problem wasn't with the guns because virtually all makers of .40 pistols had nearly the smae chambers. I had a Para Ordinance 1911 that had a looser chamber than my Glock 35.

But where the problem really came from was Federal Ammunition marked "FC" and "FC10". This ammo was widely used by Law Enforcement and I found a blown up case on the ground at one of my IDPA shoots after a Santa Barbara Policeman blew up his Glock while training. It blew the magazine out of the gun and he was lucky. Federal was made aware of the problem and made changes by raising the web of the case up higher so that the Unsupported place in the chamber was compensated for by thicker brass in the affected area.

Once all that ammo was gone the only blow ups came from over charged reloads. I have loaded an shot thousands of Cast Boolits in my G35, G23 and G21 .45 Powder Coating also works very well. I'm about to do another batch soon.

Also,,, there is not reason on this planet to Hotrod this round. If you need "Personal Defense Ammo" go buy some ! Don't make your own, you aren't as good as the people who make ammo for a living!!!

It should be noted that Boolit Fit is King in all Cast Boolit Shooting. In many cases it doesn't have as big an effect as in some cases. But the .40 S&W is the one place where it really matters. It is the most critical of all Rimless Pistol rounds, and needs the most attention when loading.

Conversely .45ACP is the least Critical and is still probably the most effective SD Pistol Round ever built. Kind of has a long track record?

Hope this helps with understanding of the issue..

Randy

[TD1886]

I commented on this BS in my first post here in 2008, and I carried it over from Trapshooters.com when Don Verna told me about this place.

Like all other guns, if the bullet fit is right there won't be any leading. But you actually need to look at your barrel, like take it out of the gun and look at it, after shooting some of your loads to confirm what is happening. Kind of like any other gun?

Now on to the Infamous, "Glock Unsupported Chamber" we've heard so much about. This was only a problem with Gens 1&2 .40 S&W. The "Unsupported" part was at the juncture of the Feed Ramp and the chamber itself.

It was modified in the Gen 3 guns, but the real problem wasn't with the guns because virtually all makers of .40 pistols had nearly the smae chambers. I had a Para Ordinance 1911 that had a looser chamber than my Glock 35.

But where the problem really came from was Federal Ammunition marked "FC" and "FC10". This ammo was widely used by Law Enforcement and I found a blown up case on the ground at one of my IDPA shoots after a Santa Barbara Policeman blew up his Glock while training. It blew the magazine out of the gun and he was lucky. Federal was made aware of the problem and made changes by raising the web of the case up higher so that the Unsupported place in the chamber was compensated for by thicker brass in the affected area.

Once all that ammo was gone the only blow ups came from over charged reloads. I have loaded an shot thousands of Cast Boolits in my G35, G23 and G21 .45 Powder Coating also works very well. I'm about to do another batch soon.

Also,,, there is not reason on this planet to Hotrod this round. If you need "Personal Defense Ammo" go buy some ! Don't make your own, you aren't as good as the people who make ammo for a living!!!

It should be noted that Boolit Fit is King in all Cast Boolit Shooting. In many cases it doesn't have as big an effect as in some cases. But the .40 S&W is the one place where it really matters. It is the most critical of all Rimless Pistol rounds, and needs the most attention when loading.

Conversely .45ACP is the least Critical and is still probably the most effective SD Pistol Round ever built. Kind of has a long track record?

Hope this helps with understanding of the issue..

Randy

I would assume that most of us have been told by the firarms industry that 40 S&W is as hot as it gets and don't try to hop it up. I don't own one as I have 10mm's. I have a box of 600 once fired 40 S&W and no use for it. Had it for like 15 years or more.

[reddog81]

I’ve shot hundreds of rounds between cleanings in 10mm and 45 ACP Glocks with PC and lubed lead bullets without issue. If you are concerned take the barrel out of the gun and check every few magazines to see if you are getting lead buildup.

[TD1886]

So I'm seeing many of you shooting lead from Glocks with no issues at all, not even a little one. It's just something that spread around that you can't cast from Glocks and the hexagonal rifling makes it more plausible. Glock isn't going to tell you the real reason.

[P Flados]

I've only seen one manual for a firearm that listed that you could shoot ANY kind of ammo through it and that was my manual for the Springfield National Match M1 A.

FYI, At one time every TC Contender sold came with a reloading guide.

[Recycled bullet]

Shooting handguns for score is humbling and many people lack competency. Many people are so unskilled at shooting handguns that they are not able to determine a reduction in performance when the barrel is beginning to get obstructed or leaded or extremely dirty by watching group size on the target. There just isn't a group at all being as half of the time they're shooting the floor and the ceiling.

Also reloading ammunition is a precision sport. Some people shouldn't be allowed in the reloading room. I think that's who Glock had in mind with their prohibition on reloads and cast bullets etc.

Wow Mr Buchanan that gun popping shell casing must have felt like slapping boiling hornet's. Yikes.

[mdi]

I remember many of the instances Randy mentions, but not being (wanting to be) a Glock owner I paid little attention. One issue I followed was the "dangerous poly barrel leading" posts. I am a "I just wanna know" kinda guy and really couldn't believe a lot of the "examples" of problems with lead and poly barrels. I didn't have a poly barreled 9mm gun to do my own testing until just 5 years ago, but I followed my cast boolit methods; know barrel ID, size boolits appropriately, use decent alloy, decent lube and sane loads. Never had any excessive, "dangerous" leading, as a matter of fact most of the time I got no or miniscule barrel fouling...

[jdgabbard]

I remember many of the instances Randy mentions, but not being (wanting) to be a Glock owner I paid little attention. One issue I followed was the "dangerous poly barrel leading" posts. I am a "I just wanna know" kinda guy and really couldn't believe a lot of the "examples" of problems with lead and poly barrels. I didn't have a poly barreled 9mm guns to do my own testing until just 5 years ago, but I followed my cast boolit methods; know barrel ID, size boolits appropriately, use decent alloy, decent lube and sane loads. Never had any excessive, "dangerous" leading, as a matter of fact most of the time I got no or miniscule barrel fouling...

I'm sure it'd be even less today with PC'd boolits. Any time I go to clean my pistols after a range session I mostly just mopping the carbon out of the gun. I've seen zero leading in anything with PC'd boolits with the exception of .380acp when I sized to .356 instead of .357. I got a little in the first inch or two of the barrel. Sized to .357 and it went away. It was the one change I've had to make with PC'd boolits....

[W.R.Buchanan]

Wow Mr Buchanan that gun popping shell casing must have felt like slapping boiling hornet's. Yikes.

Yeah the Cops had already left before we got there, but one of there's shot with us and that's how we knew about it. I was sweeping he range for brass back then and that's how I found the casing.
When the Santa Barbara Police found out about the Federal Ammo they sent it all back to the factory, This all happened around 2006-7.

IF you reload .40 S&W keep your eyes open for FC or FC10 cases . DO NOT RELOAD THEM !!!

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Go into the Pistol Forum and the Sticky at the very top of the page entitled "The Truth about Glocks and Cast" is an Exhaustive Discussion (669 replies) about this subject. 520,000 views!

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?33855-The-Truth-about-Glocks-and-Cast

Randy

[fredj338]

I bought my G20sf as a light hiker for bears & other things that bite & scratch. I think its just fine with a 200gr WNFP or 200gr XTP @ 1200fps. It is lighter to carry than my 4" 44 or 41mags. I doubt the solid stops inside a 300# yogi.
After testing lubed & coated, I only shoot coated in my Glocks. They are far more accurate than lubed, especially @ higher pressures/vel. I shot about 3000 lube lead thru my gen 1 Glock 17 before seriously cleaning the bbl. It did have some leading but 3000 rds without incident. I wouldnt do that today, but I was curious about the ability of the Gen1 Glock.

[ggmg4849]

I used a pair of Glock 34 G-3&4’s for years in IDPA competition both with & without stock barrels. For a number of years I ran only 147 grain cast bullets thru them. Some stock barrels shot cast fine, others didn’t…as in all things, you have to know you firearm and projectiles. Eventually, I switched to aftermarket, cut rifling barrels, and eliminated all the “trial & error” with polygonal rifling and cast/plated bullets.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I've shot lots of cast boolits out of Glocks and my Kahr with polygonal rifling. No issues at all.

Glock doesn't want you shooting any reloads because of the unsupported chamber.

[Nathanj]

Same. But with a different color. Lol

[44Blam]

I did some work on my Glock 35 and cast and I really didn't have great success. I had some minor leading that gave me poor accuracy. I did end up buying 2 KKM barrels (40 S&W and 357 Sig) and they are very accurate with my cast loads. I do PC and GC the 357 sig boolits.