Optimizing Snub Nose .357 MV

[zardoz]

Fellow Handgunners:

I finally got around to handloading some .357 Magnum cartridges, with my own wheelweight cast boolits. They were the 158 Lee flat nose casting, sized to .358.

The gun is a Taurus 606 snub nose, with the ports.

Noting on the enclosed Lee sheet, a starting load of 9.4 grains Blue Dot was indicated, so I made 6 cartridges of this. Standard Winchester small pistol primer. Overall length at about 1.580 to 1.585"

Took them out, and immediately noted low recoil, but good accuracy at 15 yards. I've always been very impressed with this pistol, as it seems to defy some of my notions of snubnose accuracy. Held a 5" circle off hand, using single action mode. (cocking hammer each shot)

I made a guess that the Blue Dot was not fully burning, before the slug left the barrel.

My question (finally getting around to it), would a faster burning powder such as Bullseye, be better for achieving a higher muzzle velocity from the 2 1/2" long barrel?

Any advice welcome, given the parameters.

Thanks.

[Kraschenbirn]

If you chrono those, you might find yourself pleasantly surprised. I load 7.8 gr. of Blue Dot in +P .38 Spl. cases behind a hard-cast Lyman 358156 (158 SWC w/GC) for a very comfortable 850 fps out of my 3" SP-101.

Bill

[HeavyMetal]

I have a number 8 Speer manual that has a section in it for 2 1/2 inch 357 loads.

The suggestion is slower powders do make more velocity than faster powders, the trade off is increased Muzzle flash ( because the powders are burning outside of the barrel..Duhhh)

One of the load suggested was 7.5 grains Unique on a 160 soft point. 1062 was the velocity given.

I think I'd play with this powder if I was stuck with a snubbie magnum. If you can get an honest, repeatable, 1000 FPS you'll have a great load!
Keep in mind Law enforcement ( before they all had to have 40 round Glocks) found out that the 357 and 125 grain boolits were a great combo of control and power. Might be worth a try in your snubby.

[AZ-Stew]

There was an article in one of the Handloader's Digests many years ago where the author did a bunch of experimentation with short-barreled revolver loads. The conclusion was that the powders that give the greatest velocity from 6 inch barrels also give the greatest velocity from 2 inch barrels. As HeavyMetal says, though, the trade off is muzzle blast and flash. If what you want is speed, go with slow powders like H-110, WW-296 and Alliant 2400.

Regards,

Stew

[zardoz]

Thanks for those replies.

Right now, I have Bullseye, Unique, Power Pistol, and Blue Dot for the pistol powder flavors.

This gun is actually the one I carry as sidearm in Colorado during fly-fishing trips in rough country. Very light and compact for the power, and that is a big plus when getting to some of those wilderness streams that have little fishing pressure. Seems all the easy spots were overrun with big rig campers. Climbing up or down a couple hundred feet at altitude, and a 44 Magnum seems to weigh 50 lbs.

I still have yet to get a chronograph, but I can see that on the horizon pretty quickly, the further this hobby gets its hooks in.

I have a friend at work, who is using H110 in compressed powder charges on 44 Magnum, and he swears by it, so I may try a bit of that. I have the latest Lyman handlbook, and note the 2400 charges are pretty hefty ones as well. I'm lucky to have a source of many of the commercial powders a short drive from here.

Muzzle flash not a concern, but rather trying to maximize short range energy with the 158 grain flat nose wheelweight boolit.


Thanks again for the info from the other sources. Great forum here.

[Dan Cash]

I have great confidence in 2400 and 158 or heavier bullets in short and long .357s. Have not used Blue Dot as I got started with 2400 and it worked so well. I know that the 125 grain bullet was the darling of cops and writers for years but I found it very punnishing on the gun and on me. I know, from experience, that the heavy slugs WORK. It is kind of like shooting a buffalo; therre are 4 places to shoot one. One is about an inch behind and an inch above the eye in the side of the head. Don't worry about the other three.
Dan

[Bret4207]

I have a number 8 Speer manual that has a section in it for 2 1/2 inch 357 loads.

The suggestion is slower powders do make more velocity than faster powders, the trade off is increased Muzzle flash ( because the powders are burning outside of the barrel..Duhhh)

One of the load suggested was 7.5 grains Unique on a 160 soft point. 1062 was the velocity given.

I think I'd play with this powder if I was stuck with a snubbie magnum. If you can get an honest, repeatable, 1000 FPS you'll have a great load!
Keep in mind Law enforcement ( before they all had to have 40 round Glocks) found out that the 357 and 125 grain boolits were a great combo of control and power. Might be worth a try in your snubby.

WARNING! WARNING! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!!!!! The Speer #8 was noted for having a lot of really HOT loads that turned out to be over pressured. Be careful with that book friend.

[shooting on a shoestring]

My 2 cents: I loaded for velocity for my 2&1/4 SP101 in .357 pushing 158 gr Gold Dots. I found 10.7 gr Blue Dot to be the winner at 1140 fps. 2400, H110 and Lil'Gun were all close running 1050 to just over 1100 at max loads. So I choose the Blue Dot load and have carried that load for several years now.

That said, I just got up from my loading bench and I'm ready to range test 14.0 gr 2400 pushing the Group Buy 175 gr Keith SWC cast in 50/50 pure lead/WWs, drilled hollow points 1/8" diameter drilled to the leading drive band.

I discovered the Blue Dot was a bit temperature sensitive and I noticed a drop of about 100 fps in some cartridges I carried in a speed loader for about 6 months.

So, I'm re-thinking and experimenting with 2400 and the heavier (and cheaper) boolits.

I do like Bullseye in .357s. I typically load 5 to 6 grains under 150 ish boolits. Those will usually break 1000 fps, and for most stuff thats plenty of punch.

[zardoz]

On a whim, I tried a load of 6.5 grains Bullseye today, the maximum recommended by the Lee die sheet. Quite a bit snappier pop, but the holes in the target were all over the place. A full 12 inch spread there, and no help.

I noted the maximum load of Blue Dot was 10.3 for the lead bullet, but 10.7 for the j-word one. In the Lyman book, for linotype they had 10.5 Blue Dot for 155 grain, and 10.9 for the 160 grain, so the 10.7 sounds good for what I'm doing here.

Definitely getting an urgent need (in my own mind), for chronograph now. One that can interface to a laptop or something for data storage and analysis.

Thanks again for your inputs.

[fecmech]

I shoot 10.0 of Blue Dot behind both the 173gr. 358429 "Keith" bullet and the 158 gr Lee RNFP. Velocities run about 1250 fps out of a 6" Ruger GP100 using Federal sp primers. Same loads using Winchester sp primers about 40 fps less on average. Using the 10.3-10.7 loads you should be somewhere above 1000 fps out of your snub, probably 1050-1100 fps.

[S.R.Custom]

You might consider the use of a 125 grain bullet. The light bullet/high velocity craze of the 1970s wasn't totally without merit...

Compared to a 158 grain bullet, when loaded warmly, the 125 grain bullet gives much higher velocities. Mathematically, this translates to a significanly higher muzzle energy, and a momentum figure that is virtually identical. And using the lighter bullet allows the use of faster powders, which typically means a lot less powder in terms of charge weight. Which translates to less recoil.

My favorite 'field' load in my 3" S&W is a 125 grain bullet over 8.4 grains of IMR 4756. That combination has long held a small, but loyal cult following for guys wanting the highest possible performance from snub nose .357 magnums...

[zardoz]

OK, well I have some 125 grain boolits from the 356-125-2R for 9mm, and they just happen to mike out at .358 to .3585 unsized. I need to cast some more anyway for the 9mm. Got a digital micrometer last week, and just love it. Resolution out to .00005" Yep, five decimals, although the fifth is either 0 or 5. Learning interesting things about my casting concentricity.

I also have the SR4756 powder,that was intended for use in 12 gauge slug and buckshot loads, so I can try that out once I cast and lube some of those unsized 9mm slugs.

Another note, found that the Bullseye loads, were not properly crimped. I did meet a bit of resistance loading in the cylinder, and turns out the flare was not completely closed. With my newly acquired factory crimp die, the rest of those loads were reworked this morning (I'm off work this week due to plant shutdown, thanks to recession), and will see if that improves the accuracy.

Also will try some heavier Blue Dot loads with the 158 slugs, after I cast, lube, and size some more of those.

Thanks again.

[S.R.Custom]

Here's an interesting link I found. It lets you evaluate recoil, allowing you to compare loads side by side. It'll open your eyes as to the effect powder choice has on recoil... (Hint: a caseful of 296 is not always desireable, particularly if the gun only weighs 19 ounces.)

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

I'll be interested to hear of your accuracy experience with the light bullet loads. I get 2.5" at 25 yards from my 3" gun. (Off a rest.) It ain't stellar, but certainly sufficient for what I need it for.

[zardoz]

Lesson for today I learned... Make sure revolver cartridges are properly crimped!

Recoil on the hot Bullseye loads went up considerably, and accuracy saw a fair improvement. Now the spread over 6 rounds was about 7" firing offhand standing. I will save the rest of that lot for when I get a chronograph.

That recoil calculator looks interesting. The effect of proper crimping really took me by surprise. Now I'll have to get the factory crimp die for the 44 magnum as well. The 44 is a S&W 629 with the 6" barrel, so a different animal for sure.

[mooman76]

My snubby I couldn't get to shoot that great but what shot best by far was a full WC.

[shooting on a shoestring]

As my handle implies, I'm Scottish by nature and heritage. I did stray from the fold when I bought my chronograph. I spent the big bucks and bought an Oheler 35P. Three screens, proof chanel, printer. I've been very glad I did. Its been worth every penny. I've used other peoples the Chrony's in the past and I'm no fan of them.

I believe a chronograph is as necessary as any other piece of reloading equipment. I hope you get one, but I urge you not to cheap out. There are several good ones out there. Just remember that anything that gets put in front of a gun will get shot. Sky screens are much cheaper and easier to replace than Chrony units.

One of my screens was hit by a shooter in the lane next to me. I've personally killed two myself.