Just saw a video called “.38 Shorts”

[Krh1326]

I just watched a video, of a fella working with .38 special cases. He had some that had split at the mouth. He cut the cases down, with that little HF chop saw, all of the 300 Blk guys know about. He used the Lee quick trim, for 9mm on them. Then he loaded them up using 9mm load data, and typical 9 mm cast boolits. Looked like PCd Lee 120 TC. Damned if he didn’t haz a 9mm revolver.
What do you guys think of that?

[Winger Ed.]

It seems like he reinvented the original .38 Smith & Wesson from 1877.

[uscra112]

Such a rework would be a poor fit in .38 Special revolver chambers. Accuracy would be poor, and leading probable.

[Krh1326]

I thought it was a really interesting idea, but then I was wondering about a couple different things.
Like mentioned above, I wondered about the fit. I suppose if he had PCd unsized , and got to.358 how would the fit be? What differences the rifling would be from typical .38/.357 and 9mm. That “9mm” has more pressure right? How would that do, slamming thru the cone? Have a lot of cylinder scrubbing and cleaning, afterwards, for sure. I know what .38 special does to my .357 cylinder… now trying to picture the short…

[uscra112]

Yah, 9mm tends to be loaded a lot hotter than even +P .38 Special. A revolver built to .357 strength standard would be OK, but not the older .38s.

[dverna]

Seems stupid to me. .38 brass is easy to find, not expensive, and lasts a long time.

I am cheap, but not that cheap.

[Krh1326]

Don Verna, You win, I’m rolling, laughing!



I wonder how such a round would do, in one of those .38/.357 lever carbines?

[Txcowboy52]

I’m thinking it would be to short to cycle and lock up your carbine.

[trapper9260]

I would not use the 9mm data for how it is like stated. I would use the 380 data and the size of the boolit that I would use for the gun. I do it for the 9mm that are too short for a semi auto and trim some just to be able to ID them from the rest of the cases and use 380 data and work up and shoot them in a 9mm wheel gun with a moon clip and works. That way you can use a lighter load when ever you like . But the size of the boolit is what the gun will take, not what the data is because you make up your own rounds . You can look at older manuals and find data for smaller cartridges that is close to the size of boolit you like to use and as for weight is the same as as close to the data and work the load to fit the gun. The data is only a starting point. let the gun tells you what will work.

[Thumbcocker]

Didn't Federal do a rimmed 9mm cartridge back in the day?

[Mk42gunner]

Didn't Federal do a rimmed 9mm cartridge back in the day?
Yes they did, 9mm Federal IIRC. It went out of fashion once people started using it in less than optimal .38 S&W revolvers.

If a person must trim .38 Special brass short, there are two cartridges that can be safely made. The .38 Short Colt and the .38 Long Colt. I would not use 9mm data.

Robert

[uscra112]

If expanding by about .008" is allowed, it can make .38 S&W and/or .38/200. I made a few .38/200s that way when I first had my Webley/Enfield, but soon bought proper Starline brass for it.

[Walks]

Didn't Federal do a rimmed 9mm cartridge back in the day?

About 30yrs ago, never saw a Cartridge die faster.

[tja6435]

I bought some .38 Short Colt brass from Starline so I could make super low recoil .38’s for my wife’s S&W Bodyguard.

[Krh1326]

I just happen to see the video, on a random feed. Thought it was interesting, as it’s not something you normally see. The whole thing just got me to thinking, exercising the ol’ noodle.

[uscra112]

I just happen to see the video, on a random feed. Thought it was interesting, as it’s not something you normally see. The whole thing just got me to thinking, exercising the ol’ noodle.

Think hard, but don't do it, even if it does look like fun.

[imashooter2]

ICORE shooters have long used .38 short Colt brass for their competition loads. The shorter cartridges make for faster reloads and more reliable extraction. Making power factor requires loads that are well over .38 Special pressures, but the revolvers used are typically chambered for .357 magnum. Accuracy in .357 Magnum cylinders is adequate, leading no issue.

2 issues with the cut down .38s off the top of my head, first the case wall thickness of the .38 cases increases towards the head. Boolits would start to swage undersized pretty quickly. Second, 9mm load pressures are well over .38 Special levels. Closer to .357 Magnum. I hope the people following that video advise don’t blow up any guns.

[uscra112]

ICORE shooters have long used .38 short Colt brass for their competition loads. The shorter cartridges make for faster reloads and more reliable extraction.

Pinpoint accuracy must not be a top priority.

[imashooter2]

Pinpoint accuracy must not be a top priority.

ICORE scoring is time plus, that is raw time plus penalties for inaccuracy. Top shooters hit the X ring on an ICORE target at speed between 10 and 25 yards with regularity. While I agree that this combination wouldn’t be my choice for Bullseye competition, it isn’t “inaccurate.”

[uscra112]

Yeah, there's my bullseye shooter's bias showing. :coffee:

[imashooter2]

We all view the world through our own knot hole. Cheers! :drinks:

[bedbugbilly]

As already pointed out, cutting down the casings = increased wall thickness = swaged bullet.

hat this person did was basically "re-invent" 38 Colt Short with a casing with increased wall thickness loaded to 9mm data. "Stupid is as stupid does" and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they are way overloaded.

I load and shoot both 38 Colt Short and Long out of a variety of revolvers - both .358 and .375 "heeled" (for cap and ball Navy caliber .36 cal with conversion cylinders). I oftrn shoot both the 38 Colt Short and Long out of "modern" revolvers - both 38s and 357s and they shoot very well for my needs.

Back to the 38 Colt Short - I use Starline brass with a 120 isn gr. boolit _ Lyman/Ideal 358-242. My load is 2.0 grains of Bulls Eye . It worked very well out of my S & W 3" Model 36 for taking care of critters on the farm.

Now for my 9mm Shield to cycle correctly with that same boolit, I need to use 3.7 gr. of Bulls Eye. Do the math . . . .

The 38 Colt Short was developed to be a black powder cartridge with a .375 heeled noolit to use in converted 1851/61 Colt Navies. I developed into a smokeless powder cartridge with a .358 boolit for 38s. It can be a fun and useful cartridge - but use common sense.

Unfortunately, there are too many fools with video cameras . . . .

[gwpercle]

Yes they did, 9mm Federal IIRC. It went out of fashion once people started using it in less than optimal .38 S&W revolvers.

If a person must trim .38 Special brass short, there are two cartridges that can be safely made. The .38 Short Colt and the .38 Long Colt. I would not use 9mm data.

Robert

:goodpost:
38 Long Colt data is easy to find and would be better than 9mm Luger data .
Gary

[dtknowles]

I’m thinking it would be to short to cycle and lock up your carbine.

My buddy tried .38 long colt in his lever gun to increase the mag capacity, it was to short to cycle, shorter will not work better.

Tim

[dtknowles]

If expanding by about .008" is allowed, it can make .38 S&W and/or .38/200. I made a few .38/200s that way when I first had my Webley/Enfield, but soon bought proper Starline brass for it.

I too, used shortened .38 special brass for my first .38 S&W reloads. It worked but like you soon got some proper brass.
Tim

[dtknowles]

I just watched a video, of a fella working with .38 special cases. He had some that had split at the mouth. He cut the cases down, with that little HF chop saw, all of the 300 Blk guys know about. He used the Lee quick trim, for 9mm on them. Then he loaded them up using 9mm load data, and typical 9 mm cast boolits. Looked like PCd Lee 120 TC. Damned if he didn’t haz a 9mm revolver.
What do you guys think of that?

I am taking this as a reminder to be real careful with some of the stuff that makes it on other websites.
Tim

[dtknowles]

ICORE shooters have long used .38 short Colt brass for their competition loads. The shorter cartridges make for faster reloads and more reliable extraction...........

Just occurred to me if you wanted short brass for .38 special chamber you could size down .38 S&W, if you can't find .38 colt brass.

Tim