45 ACP brass question

[billmc2]

I've been saving my brass for a while now, well before I started reloading in the hope that one day I would reload them. I was going through cleaning and sizing 45 ACP brass in preparation to reloading them, I have a number of different head stamps. Apparently I must've gotten a good deal on some Blazzer Brass; I have over 100 pieces of the stuff. The plot complication is that they are all for a small primer. None of the load info I have uses small primers. What should I do with this brass? To stay consistent with my process, my first inclination is to set them aside and not use them.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[justindad]

I don’t use .45ACP brass with the SPP, but I have very many pieces with the LPP pocket. If chucking 100 pieces of brass makes you cringe, then use them with standard load data. For the .45ACP, they say SPP vs LPP doesn’t make a meaningful difference.
*
Consistency is a valuable principle when it comes to making ammo. Perhaps you ought to chuck them for the sake of engraining consistency into your reloading practices.

[stubshaft]

A couple of years ago I traded/sold all of my LP 45 acp brass and now use only the SP type. You can probably trade it for LP brass.

[nicholst55]

I just decided to locate some SPP .45 ACP brass, since you can find small primers but not large primers.

[Bmi48219]

If we’ve learned anything about supply chain issues from the last few years it is to keep your options open. I have a couple thousand pieces of SPP 45 acp brass, deprimed, cleaned lubed and sized. I may never use them, but if the day comes when LPPs aren’t available I will have the option.

[TD1886]

There's nothing wrong with small primers. I don't see having to change your load. I use them and they shoot just fine. Think about it a 357 magnum uses a small primer so why can't the 45 acp since it doesn't use as much powder as the 357? Everyone is just so use to having large pistol primers in the 45acp. I wish they would have made the 10mm case for small primers.

[Saxon]

i try not to save them, but f the brass i pick up has them i sort them and
load as always but mark them for leave behind at the local range.

[JimB..]

They go in a separate container for “some day.”

[ddeck22]

Lot of good advice already, I especially agree with keeping them in the event that you can't get large pistol primers. Remember also that you could use small rifle primers in the SPP brass as well, so it really gives you many more options.

[Wag]

I've never had a problem with using the SPP brass. I don't change the load and occasionally, after I've got a bunch of primed brass, I load them all in the same batch indifferent to the size of the primer. Just for plinking loads. Never had any issues and never could tell at the range.

--Wag--

[charlie b]

I've started saving SP brass as well, mainly because it means I only have to stock one size. My other pistols are all SP. I already got a bunch of SR .308 brass for the same reason. So now I only stock up on SR primers as well.

[Rapier]

Blazer and SP, I would check and make sure the Blazer cases are not Aluminum. Most of the Blazer stuff I have seen, in addition, has an odd size primer pocket, a Blazer size if you will.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

billmc2,
they load and shoot just fine.

What Bmi says is so true.

If we’ve learned anything about supply chain issues from the last few years it is to keep your options open. I have a couple thousand pieces of SPP 45 acp brass, deprimed, cleaned lubed and sized. I may never use them, but if the day comes when LPPs aren’t available I will have the option.
When I buy bulk range brass, I sort out the spp brass and set it aside. In the past I've given it away, as I didn't want it unintentionally getting mixed in my the lpp brass I am using. Now I just save it for future.

[JimB..]

Blazer and SP, I would check and make sure the Blazer cases are not Aluminum. Most of the Blazer stuff I have seen, in addition, has an odd size primer pocket, a Blazer size if you will.
In retail packaging there is Blazer and for a few cents more Blazer Brass. Blazer doesn’t have a copper-colored wash the way some steel ammo does, so mixing it up is unlikely.

I’ve never had an issue with primer size on Blazer Brass, have you found it to be over or under sized?

[Bigslug]

The Black Death, smallpox, typhus, cholera, Spanish influenza, AIDS, COVID 19, small-primer .45 brass, . . .

The stuff came into being as a result of the "low lead emission" training ammo cooked up for police ranges that use a new priming compound. Those ranges needed a bunch of 9mm, .38, .40, and .45 - only one of which called for a large primer, and so for ease of production, the next Great Plague to mankind was born. . . When your stash began over 30 years ago and you run separate large and small primer progressives, it can be pretty obnoxious.

The .45 ACP case is so visually distinctive that scrounging it off the ground was no challenge at all, but the SPP introduction wrecked that, almost as if some Committee of Evil in a smoke-filled room asked "Where is there still joy in this world that we can suck away?":lol:

The main advantage I see to it in time of shortage is that Hardball's 5 grain charge of Bullseye doesn't NEED a large cap, but .44 Special and .45 Colt loads that are on the verge of being Magnums and Casulls probably do. The SPP cases then at least let you direct the large primer love where it's most essential.

I briefly went through the same thing on smaller scale with .455 Webley. Tiny charges that don't need a large primer, but Fiocchi only offered loaded ammo in their SPP cases and Starline was doing a run of brass for LPP - easy choice / decision made. I now have a couple boxes of empty Fiocchi cases sitting on a shelf that occasionally get a cold stare and the question of "what is the POINT of you?"

[Daver7]

I stash them back in case I can't find LPP.

[Tall]

45 ACP brass is in stock at Starline with LPP. I am overwhelmed by 45 ACP brass I have bought bags of it from Winchester and Remington in the past. All of it LPP - I just chuck any with SPP in the trash as it is not useful to me and never will be.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-auto-brass

[scattershot]

I use SPP brass, and I can’t tell any difference. Anybody wants to pitch theirs, I’d be happy to take it, and I’ll pay postage.

[ioon44]

I load SP and LP in .45 ACP with the same powder charge for 200gr SWC target loads, also can use small rifle primers if I shoot them out of my 1911's, my striker fired guns don't like SR primers.

[mdi]

At the very least, sort them out and put them in a container and put it away. The only things wrong with small 45 ACP primed brass are one; they need to be separated from large primed brass. Two, the equipment/tools needed are slightly different (converting your priming tools to small primers). Three, the time/trouble it takes to remove a small primer case after you have tried to seat a large primer. One main consideration I've heard is the staunch opinions from long time 45 ACP reloaders is something like "I've been reloading 45 ACP with large pistol primers for 40 years and that's the way they're 'sposed to be", reloaders that don't want to change their handloads (no big deal). When small primed brass started showing up the loudest opinions seemed to come from progressive press users when a small primed case slipped by their "inspection", stopped up their press and had to be cleared. I've done side by side tests of small vs large primed 45 ACH handloads and found not enough difference to make a difference. But I inspect my brass closely when I first get it and before it s reloaded so tossing a small primed case in a different pile after glancing at the case head ain't no big deal.

As a new reloader, choose which you want to use, small primed or large primed, sort them out and put the other away for now. I now have many, many large primed 45 ACP brass and about 500 small primed cases, but I am mostly reloading small primed brass because I have many more small pistol primers than large pistol primers (and if push came to shove, I could use small rifle primers).

[fredj338]

I toss mine or try to not pick it up because its a pita to sort for primer size & swap out my 650 to load sp over lp. The diff is very small between sp & lp as to vel. I have found with faster powders, adding 1/10gr with sp makes up for the lp. I have 45 brass from the 1980s, fired 20+. Some cases I cant even read the headstamp. The low pressure 45 lets you get a lot of reloads out of a case.

[billmc2]

Wow! I hadn't expected this many replies. Thanks.

Let's see here. The Blazer cases I have are Blazer Brass. I try to avoid buying ammo with a case that can not be reloaded.

It sounds as if I can start with the same load data for a case with a large primer and go from there; I didn't know I could do this. I still consider myself to be new to all this. As such, I don't want to complicate things more than I need to. I think what I'll do here, is to separate all the small primer brass and set it aside. I'll keep it for "just in case" situations.

I am not using a progressive press, mine is the Redding Turret press. I do use it to prime the cases but it needs to first be configured for either the small or the large primers.

Here's a slightly different question I've come up with based upon some of these responses. When beginning, I read that I should not use brass that I haven't bought new, either loaded or unloaded. I think this is due to not knowing the history of the brass, thus not knowing when it will/could fail. What I think I've learned is that this seems to be more directed to rifle brass than pistol brass. I do see plenty of once fired pistol brass for sale but have never bought any of it. So what's the real deal here? Is once fired brass (recognizing that that is a term and not actually the number of times the brass has been loaded) safe to use? For the time being, I'm only loading hand gun; I have a couple of rifles but haven't gone down that road yet.

[45_Colt]

Here's a slightly different question I've come up with based upon some of these responses. When beginning, I read that I should not use brass that I haven't bought new, either loaded or unloaded.

Nothing wrong with using once fired brass that you didn't purchase new. Although there are instances of brass being subject to extremes even with once fired new factory loads. Such as loose chambers and unsupported chambers.

So in that sense, yes, need to be careful, on the look out, for decent brass.


Is once fired brass (recognizing that that is a term and not actually the number of times the brass has been loaded) safe to use? For the time being, I'm only loading hand gun; I have a couple of rifles but haven't gone down that road yet.

To me, once fired is once fired. It may be factory ammo or new cases that have been loaded and fired ONCE. If it has been reloaded again, it is no longer once fired.

This is a sticky point as I've seen brass on the S&S board here that is not stated to be 'once fired.' No mention at all of 'how many times has this stuff been used' statement.

Need to be careful out there. Year back I'd just purchase a case of factory ammo, shoot it up and save the cases. Or purchased once fired from police ranges.

45_Colt

[deces]

Some people regard 45acp with SP as being a premium. Either sell them or set them aside for a project load.

[AnthonyB]

I will gladly pay shipping plus beer money for all 45 ACP SPP brass. I use them for Zombie Apocalypse ammo or for ranges where I can't police my brass. I've seen no difference in performance with either, but they are a PITA to separate and are a plague on progressive machines.
Tony

[Walks]

I doesn't really bother Me anymore. It did 10yrs ago, but not now. I do NOT size and prime on a progressive. But do all case prep separately. Progressives are used for powder, seat and crimp.
I just prefer to prime by hand. Been doing that way for 60+ years. Started seating with a tong tool, then Lachmiller bench priming tool. Moved to RCBS bench mounted auto priming tool, then the Lee hand tool. Wore out 2 of those. And now the Great RCBS hand auto priming tool.
It's great to feel as all 3 anvil legs contact the bottom of the primer pocket.

[35 Rem]

I had never encountered the SPP 45 ACP until recently buying a batch of almost 2,000 45 ACP cases. It was irritating going though them all to sort Large from Small primer but once done the problem is over. I shoot auto pistols standing on a tarp so all I have to do is not mix the two kinds of brass in one shooting session. I have already primed them all but only loaded the approximately 1,200 with LPP. Intend to use the same load for the SPP brass. Being that I have less than 6,000 SPP in stock and over 13,000 LPP, I'll be saving SPP for 38 Special from now on until primer supplies free up.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP>>>

Here's a slightly different question I've come up with based upon some of these responses. When beginning, I read that I should not use brass that I haven't bought new, either loaded or unloaded. I think this is due to not knowing the history of the brass, thus not knowing when it will/could fail. What I think I've learned is that this seems to be more directed to rifle brass than pistol brass. I do see plenty of once fired pistol brass for sale but have never bought any of it. So what's the real deal here? Is once fired brass (recognizing that that is a term and not actually the number of times the brass has been loaded) safe to use? For the time being, I'm only loading hand gun; I have a couple of rifles but haven't gone down that road yet.
Once fired brass, should be once fired brass. But you are trusting the source[seller] for factual information, that's a judgement for sure, as always, buyer beware.

When I buy bulk range brass, which I do regularly with pistol brass, I hand sort all of it. Besides sorting by Headstamp, I look for damaged brass and brass past it's prime (bulged, cracked, scratched, corroded, gouges in edge of head, worn or flattened headstamp markings). I guess that comes from experience...and sometimes the brass can look good, but will have loose primer pockets and I don't find that out until I am seating primers...this is one of many reasons why I sort the range brass by Headstamp. If I find one with a loose primer pocket, there is a good chance the entire group with matching headstamp may have same problem and if I have them pre-sorted, the process of additional inspection is much easier.

Now finding defects like mentioned doesn't happen often, but it is what you should be doing when buying or picking up unknown source range brass.

I am much more fussy about Rifle brass.

[Randy Bohannon]

Some of my best groups have been shot with Blazer brass with SPP in my Dan Wesson CCO 45ACP. I prefer the SPP and buy it when available as their factory ammo shoots as well as my hand loads.

[jdgabbard]

I would just sort the brass into SPP/LPP lots and load them with the same data. I've found no difference between them. I'm actually getting ready to load two different lots of 45acp. 500 with LPP, and 500 with SPP.

[mdi]

In reality, "once fired" can be just considered as "used". A few vendors may have brass collection/purchase contracts with the military or police where they only shoot factory new ammo. That being said, I have purchased a lot of "once fired" brass with no problems. I visually inspect every new to me case before reloading, and my first step reloading is inspecting brass (no matter how many times it has been reloaded). To some, inspection can be boring, irritating, frustrating , etc., but I started checking every case I reloaded in the early '70s, looking at every case doesn't take that long and I know what I'm reloading. 45ACP is a fairly low pressure round and the brass usually lasts a very long time, and I usually lose more than those that are "worn out".

[dale2242]

As far as 45ACP brass goes, I have never been able to it out.
I usually gets lost before it becomes unusable.

[Mk42gunner]

I'd save it until I had enough to make sense loading it.

I do not have any SP .45 ACP brass, mainly because I haven't bought any factory .45 ammo since the SP became somewhat common. The only way I can see a small primer really causing a problem is if your gun is so out of spec that it hits the primer way off center; and that is more of a gun problem than an ammo problem.

I compared the useable case volume of the .45 ACP and .357 Magnum back when the debate about .45 SP brass first started. IIRC they were virtually identical, and hardly anyone gripes about using SP in the .357.

I bet there were lots of reloaders just like us griping about getting SP .38 Special brass back when it changed to SP.

Robert

[44 flattop]

I relegate SPP .45w to my hiking/hunting ammo. Whatever I shoot, no need to search for an pick it up.