1917 Savage pistol

[ascast]

not sure if in correct catagory,couldn't find better so...

1915 Savage pistol, in 380ACP or 9mm. I have a chance to load up and shoot one of these. Gun is stamped both 380 and 9mm. Anybody have any advice here -cast bullet is best? powder? load? This will probably end up as an "in house" defense piece.
Not looking to redline pressures but something with a little punch.
thanks in advance

[schutzen-jager]

definitely a .380 acp. - they never made a 9mm - any foreign proof marks [ might explain the 9mm mark ] or importer stamps on it ? - picture of marking might help - if original any standard .380 load will work -

[45_Colt]

A .380 is also known as a 9mm Kurz. Which IIRC, is the German word for 'short.'

45_Colt

[ascast]

I will try to post pic in the AM

[schutzen-jager]

A .380 is also known as a 9mm Kurz. Which IIRC, is the German word for 'short.'

45_Colt

that is correct, European designation, but i have never seen it used on any vintage Savage pistol

[rintinglen]

Portugal issued them to officers and troops during WW I when their supply of Lugers were was cut off. They remained in service, or at least in reserve, up until the 1950's, when they were sold off to one of the big surplus importers. IIRC, most were 7.65--32 ACP.

[45_Colt]

That may/would explain why it is stamped 380/9mm.

45_Colt

[Tall]

not sure if in correct catagory,couldn't find better so...

1915 Savage pistol, in 380ACP or 9mm. I have a chance to load up and shoot one of these. Gun is stamped both 380 and 9mm. Anybody have any advice here -cast bullet is best? powder? load? This will probably end up as an "in house" defense piece.
Not looking to redline pressures but something with a little punch.
thanks in advance

This is the Hogdon data from their website for a 95 grain FMJ

Powder Winchester 231 9.017mm Bul Dia 24.638mm COAL 2.9 Starting charge 244 13,100 CUP 3.2 Max Charge 269 15,400 CUP

[schutzen-jager]

Portugal issued them to officers and troops during WW I when their supply of Lugers were was cut off. They remained in service, or at least in reserve, up until the 1950's, when they were sold off to one if the big surplus importers. IIRC, most were 7.65--32 ACP.

that is correct .32acp only - thousands more were sold to France during WWI - 27,00 to france - only 1.150 to Portugal - both contracts were in .32acp + all had standard .32 caliber marked on slide + all model 1907 - the 9mm probably added after leaving factory - small quantities were sold to law enforcement in U.S. Canada, South America, + possibly some European departments - picture of stamping + any import stamps would help in narrowing it down --

[rintinglen]

Be cautious with the magazine(s). The lip that holds the base on is very weak-I think they were stamped out of old tin cans, and thin, cheap ones at that. Were I compelled to press my 1908 into service, I would only load 9 rounds, and sacrifice a little capacity for a longer mag life. Triple K makes a stronger, reduced-capacity mag, IIRC, 7 rds that is also worth considering.

[schutzen-jager]

i shoot my WWI french contract one several times a year since i bought it in the 60's, original magazine + never had a problem with magazine fully loaded + using some hot load European ammo -

[ascast]

I am having a bad time getting a pic of this but slide top one side says SAVAGE ARM CORP UTICA N.Y. USA CAL 380 ---otherside says PATENTED NOVEMBER 21 1905 --9 M-M
SO you can see why I wanted to ask around for clarification 380 or 9mm thanks to all

[schutzen-jager]

the patent refers to the original Searle's design - the .380 caliber was first produced on 1/171913 - the serial # on first one started at 2000 with a letter B suffix that distinguish from the .32 models - the .380's were produced in model 1907, 1915, + model 1917 -are you positive yours is a model 1917 ? -the model 1917 was not introduced till 1920 with the last one produced in 1926 - the model 1917 sales lagged due to the lack of quality + finish campared to older models -

[ascast]

I am not sure it is a 1917. I thought that was the only year they made a 380. The stampings all look to be original and done at the same time. where is serial number located?

[schutzen-jager]

depends on model + year of manufacture - some are on semi circular section on very front of frame, others are on the sides of frame - easy to tel,l 1917 had much a wider different configeration grip frame - the 1915 was hammerless + with a grip safety -

[ascast]

ok so got that 2610xx on front frame circular, Also no grip safety and yes, exposed hammer.

[schutzen-jager]

serial numbers part of any military contract are known + published + yours is not one of them - definitely a model 1907 - serial numbers not on contract sales have little meaning because after frames were finished + numbered they were put in bins + most of the time the higher numbers got used before the lower numbers - the references i have state that all original .380's had a [ B ] suffix on serial number - pictures + markings would help - does it have a lanyard ring, round, or spur type cocking piece ??? -
-

[rintinglen]

If yours is a 380, with a 5 digit serial number with a B at the end, (making 6 digits all told,) it was probably assembled and sold cerca 1921.

It is very difficult to be precise, as Savage reportedly did not use the frames sequentially, but rather, made a batch of frames, numbered them, but just grabbed them catch-as-catch-can, so that serial numbers hundreds, or even thousands apart might be finished during the same week, much less same year. It was not unheard of for a frame to "slip through the cracks" and then be finished at a later date.

[schutzen-jager]

if it does not have the [ B ] suffix it could possibly a put together parts pistol, a .380 slide on a .32 frame - Sarco Inc. sold hundreds of kits made up from assorted parts -