20 gauge round ball

[curioushooter]

It seems to me that one could put two 58 caliber round balls in a wad, or just one. Anybody try this? Seems like it might be a useful deer load at short range in smooth barrels.

[Mr Peabody]

I'll bet it would work.

[Texas by God]

No help with your 20 gauge, but a .530” ball will work in a 28 gauge. I got 4” groups with the bead sight at 50 yards.


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[centershot]

If you're loading 3" hulls it might work, but not in 2-3/4" unless the ball is waaaayyy undersize. A round ball, any gauge, is best loaded with a 1/8" nitro card in the bottom of the wad. This keeps the wad from wrapping itself around the ball and destroying itself and the gas seal. Loading a single .575" RB in a wad with a nitro card in the bottom can yield some impressive results. If you are loading for a rifled bore, you need to make the "sabot" fit tightly to be accurate. In my case (12 ga.) nothing good happened until I was about 0.010" over bore size. Yes, the plastic will squish down! There's a ton of info on this here, do a search!

[curioushooter]

A round ball, any gauge, is best loaded with a 1/8" nitro card in the bottom of the wad

Do you mean place the "nitro card" between the plastic wad and the powder? Or do you mean place the ntirocard between the wad and the ball?

I would think having a snug fit would be key for smooth bore accuracy, as well as a perfectly round swaged ball. I would think too tight of a fit would crush the ball down in the choke.

A round ball of that size would require very little twist to stabilize it. Perhaps a rifled choke? But I was thinking this would be something where the barrel used for shot (like with a mod or IC choke) for rabbit hunting, etc. one could also carry along some of these round ball loads for when it's deer season?

[firefly1957]

I cast .561" round balls for my muzzle loader my son has loaded singles in 20 gauge wads accuracy was terrible* .
The ball weighs 267 grains or .6 oz. so two would be 1.2 oz for reloading purpose we will call that 1 1/2 oz. a bit high in 20 gauge but there is data. the other issue is the two balls are a bit to long to fit most wads .
I wonder if wads for steel shot might be the ticket for you? Doing so would throw you into an area of no loading data .....

My internet search found no information for you .


*Edit : I talked to my son about his two .561 load in a 20 gauge 2 3/4" shell he said he did have decent luck with it on second attempt . Said at 25 yards the balls where about a foot apart and online with the bead and area that shot pattern would be . He has some loaded up yet and set aside for home defense .

[centershot]

Do you mean place the "nitro card" between the plastic wad and the powder? Or do you mean place the ntirocard between the wad and the ball?

I would think having a snug fit would be key for smooth bore accuracy, as well as a perfectly round swaged ball. I would think too tight of a fit would crush the ball down in the choke.

A round ball of that size would require very little twist to stabilize it. Perhaps a rifled choke? But I was thinking this would be something where the barrel used for shot (like with a mod or IC choke) for rabbit hunting, etc. one could also carry along some of these round ball loads for when it's deer season?

The NC goes in the wad cup, under the ball, try a 28 ga. card. Sometimes, depending on the wad and the powder, a NC can be placed into the gas seal cup at the bottom of the wad. This reinforces the gas seal and prevents it from being "blown out". Don't do this unless your recovered wads shown mangled gas seals.

Whether smooth or rifled bore, the fit in the bore is important, you don't want the ball rattling around loose inside the wad. The wad petals usually mike around 0.025" thickness where the balls equator will ride. They will compress, sometimes they might shear off if a tight load is pushed through a full choke, for example. I have experienced the petals shearing or being almost cut off at the base wear they attach to the wad, right where the NC sits. Even with that, I still get 2" groups from my Mossberg's rifled barrel at 50 yards, 2-1//2" from my 870 with a Carlson's rifled choke tube. Oh, and if you're considering a rifled tube, buy the Carlson's. Their design not only provides rifling but also "chokes" the projectile at the same time.

If you want a "combo" gun that can fire shot or ball without changing barrels or tubes, then you'll need to work up a load that will provide enough accuracy with the ball in the choke that you use for your shot charges. A note here; Back in the day, the Ithaca Deerslayer was noted to be an accurate slug gun, and it was a smoothbore. That barrel was made undersize for it's bore, so a nominal 12 ga. bore (0.729") was made to 0.710", IIRC. Yeah, 0.020" of "choke" built in, along the entire bore. They squeezed the daylights outa' the slugs but shot great groups! There's a lesson there! If you hunt with an IC choke, as I commonly do, you want to build a round ball load the is plus 0.005 - 0.010" over your bore size. Remember, the wad petals are giving you a cushion. The ball squeezing down going through the choke? It won't matter, if it's a rifled bore or chole tub the ball is going to spin, if it's a little squished it won't matter. If a smoothbore, it's not going to spin, so who cares if it's a little squished? We're talking several thousandths of an inch here, no big deal, the wadd takes the brunt of it! Swaged balls? Save your money! I shoot cast balls and don't have any worries!315701315702315703

[curioushooter]

Centershot, what was the powder, charge, wad, and hull there?

I've got some nice federal and fiochi hulls with brass bases.

My idea was to have it be a combo gun, which is a browing BPS with a mod choke screwed in (which works great for birdshot and buckshot). I can get the rifled choke (or just another barrel which is easier to switch and solves sight issues) or an IC choke probably.

Where I live rabbit and deer season overlap and I always find rabbits when I am looking for deer and vice versa. The combo gun could work.

[centershot]

Centershot, what was the powder, charge, wad, and hull there?

I've got some nice federal and fiochi hulls with brass bases.

My idea was to have it be a combo gun, which is a browing BPS with a mod choke screwed in (which works great for birdshot and buckshot). I can get the rifled choke (or just another barrel which is easier to switch and solves sight issues) or an IC choke probably.

Where I live rabbit and deer season overlap and I always find rabbits when I am looking for deer and vice versa. The combo gun could work.

Here's the story:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?369800-Centershot-Sabots&p=4481759&viewfull=1#post4481759

The modified choke will give 0.020" constriction so you should have enough "squeeze" to make the RB load work. I'd want the "sabot" package to be bore size or a few thou larger (tighter) anyway so as to keep everything aligned and concentric on it's way down the bore. The final squeeze may or may not help, you'll have to experiment to see. On the plus side, I've never seen a modified choke that wouldn't shoot rifled slugs well! In this game, experimentation IS the name of the game, so, have at it! If the mod choke is too tight foe your shot loads, you cab always load a spreader wad, available from Precision Shooting and Ballistic Products. Or, try the IC choke too, you never know.......

[fastdadio]

Oops, I just posted this in the linked thread. Here it is again;
Here's my 20ga. RB load.
.575" round ball > 28ga nitro wad, > 28ga card wad, > BPI Commander wad #020TC20, > 28ga card, > 20ga nitro wad, Remington hull.
Loaded with BR-5 and CCI 209m primer.
Shooting a Weatherby PA459 smooth bore with a Carlesons rifled choke. It's holding 3" raggety holes @35 yds. I haven't taken them out to 50 yds yet.
315877

[Blood Trail]

Herters makes a two ball load from 20 ga.


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[centershot]

BT, is that a 2-3/4" hull or 3"?

[Blood Trail]

BT, is that a 2-3/4" hull or 3"?

2.75” and 1200 fps.


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[centershot]

Wow, that's impressive! They must be loading card wads or a shotcup with a really short crush section, have you tried them yet?

[6pt-sika]

I’ve used a .795” roundball in my Parker DH 8 gauge and killed a deer with it . I did however end up wrapping the roundball four or five wraps with masking tape . I used the masking tape for two reasons , 1st to get a tighter fit in the bore and 2nd to hopefully cut down on lead smears in the bore . I’m about to delve into a .775” roundball in a Parker Grade 1 top lever hammer 10 gauge that has factory original 26” barrels that left the factory quite open . I’ve already had some luck with a .775” 730 grain slug mold I obtained from someone here . If memory serves they had the mold cut for an LC Smith 10 that had no choke , I got it because I figured I could finagle it to work in my 8 gauge and it does fairly well , but the first try in that 10 yesterday was quite pleasing .

[curioushooter]

575" round ball > 28ga nitro wad, > 28ga card wad, > BPI Commander wad #020TC20, > 28ga card, > 20ga nitro wad, Remington hull.

I called BPI and they recommended Fiber Cushion Filler Wad 1/2 24ga. I am using federal wads in federal hulls (2-3/4") with federal primers. Probably Herco or Unique powder. This seems like a worthwhile experiment.

[curioushooter]

Yeah, 0.020" of "choke" built in, along the entire bore. They squeezed the daylights outa' the slugs but shot great groups!

Centershot: I have had two Ithaca 37 deerslayers, one with a rifled barrel for sabots (accurate, but a $1.50 a shot I didn't shoot it much and this was back in 2010) and one of those smoothbores you describe. The smoothbore was fairly accurate for about 3-5 shots with foster slugs, then the accuracy went to garbage? WHY? Thick streaks of caked up lead in the barrel. It worked well with LEE slugs (to escape the $1.50 sabots) which ride inside a wad but not as well as the rifled barrel did. I refuse to shoot lead-on-steel ever again after cleaning that mess. The cool thing about the roundball in the wad is that lead shouldn't touch steel and it should still get good barrel support. I have a modified choke screwed into my BPS 20 gauge. So far I've found this works great with buckshot, birdshot, whatever. I hope it works with this roundball load but but I am tempted to go and buy a full and a IC to see if it does better with one or the other.

[Blood Trail]

Centershot: I have had two Ithaca 37 deerslayers, one with a rifled barrel for sabots (accurate, but a $1.50 a shot I didn't shoot it much and this was back in 2010) and one of those smoothbores you describe. The smoothbore was fairly accurate for about 3-5 shots with foster slugs, then the accuracy went to garbage? WHY? Thick streaks of caked up lead in the barrel. It worked well with LEE slugs (to escape the $1.50 sabots) which ride inside a wad but not as well as the rifled barrel did. I refuse to shoot lead-on-steel ever again after cleaning that mess. The cool thing about the roundball in the wad is that lead shouldn't touch steel and it should still get good barrel support. I have a modified choke screwed into my BPS 20 gauge. So far I've found this works great with buckshot, birdshot, whatever. I hope it works with this roundball load but but I am tempted to go and buy a full and a IC to see if it does better with one or the other.

Round balls have very little bearing surface area. I wouldn’t worry about leading.


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[centershot]

I know that some guys have said their guns (smooth or rifled) leaded badly with Foster slugs. My Ithaca's all shot relatively clean, little to no leading and no extraordinary cleaning methods used. My Mossberg, that's a different story! Both the smooth and rifled barrels lead up pretty good, YUCK! You could try polishing the bore with 4-0 steel wool wrapped around a cleaning brush tightly and spun at LOW speed with an electric drill. Several fellows I know have done that and have improved their leading problems. Ultimately, the plastic wad is the answer, as I found with my Mossy, I'm pretty happy with that load. BT is correct, the equator of a RB allows only a tiny contact area with the bore. Perhaps if you used some tumble lube on them it would work out pretty well!

[centershot]

curioushooter, if you need some of those 24 ga. fiber wads to try PM me and Ill send you some, no charge!

[John in WI]

I bought a .575 RB mold from Lee--the ball seriously bulges my unslit BPI wad that I hoped to use. So, I bought some Hornady .570 balls, and they still appear to be too big.
I haven't messed around much with it. From the reading I did on Cast Boolits, the claims were you should be able to push the ball/wad through the barrel. It should be tight, but you shouldn't need to pound it through.

I have .575 and .570 balls, and a bag of unslit BPI wads, if you'd like to mess with it. The balls come in at almost exactly 5/8oz, and I was able to find some 5/8oz reloading data (I want to say, using Unique). I thought they would be some good close range HD rounds. I mean, it's a .58 cal round ball and that has centuries of real world data. I'm just not sure how tight is too tight?

I tend to think if the round ball can roll down the barrel without friction, you should be able to swage the plastic wad to fit without creating undue pressure. The unslit wads have worked perfectly for my 20ga "socket slugs". I actually sent those for pressure testing, and they come in within SAAMI.

I you want to pursue this, please keep in touch. It's a project I was messing with, but it got shelved when i started working with the "socket slugs". Even those, I've not tested beyond about 20 yards. In the unslit wads, the wad stays on the slug acting like a kind of drag tail. It's a cool idea, but I also couldn't find a lot of good 20ga data for the round balls. Anyway, I have several hundred .570 and .575 balls and a bag of wads if you'd like to try it.

[centershot]

John, in my experimentation I've found that nothing good happened until the payload was about 0.010" over bore diameter. Once I tried that, the magic happened, 5 shots at 50 yards:

[curioushooter]

Ultimately, the plastic wad is the answer, as I found with my Mossy, I'm pretty happy with that load. BT is correct, the equator of a RB allows only a tiny contact area with the bore. Perhaps if you used some tumble lube on them it would work out pretty well!

I found that if I lubricated the barrel of the deerslayer it didn't lead up with foster slugs. I think I used bar and chain oil, but I think just about anything would work. Yes, plastic wad is the answer.

John and Centershot thank you so much for the offers.

316675

Here is a picture of a 58 caliber hornady swaged round ball inside a federal 20S1.

316676

The ID of the mod choke in my shotgun is .603. So this should have about .013" of compression. The base of the wad varies from .613 to .621. So I think this should work. Maybe a IC choke would be better? Too bad that that choke is stuck in that barrel and ain't coming out. At least with my little chokewrench.

[curioushooter]

I have .575 and .570 balls, and a bag of unslit BPI wads, if you'd like to mess with it. The balls come in at almost exactly 5/8oz, and I was able to find some 5/8oz reloading data (I want to say, using Unique).

Hey if you could dig up that data that would be great. I was going to go with 17 grains of unique (https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?shotype=&weight=0.875&weightdis=7%2f8&shellid=515&gtypeid=3&gauge=20) as that is what is called for with 20S1 and federal hulls with 7/8 OZ. Figured with a lighter load it will go faster and definitely be safe.