21 sharp

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I see that SAMMI legitimized the 21 SHARP. It fires a 25 gr bullet at 1725 fps. The drawing shows a bullet diameter of .2105. Does this do anything the .17 HMR doesn't? Some hyper velocity .22 LR can do that. I can't see what the need for this new cartridge is.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Public-Introduction-21-Sharp-2023-06-14.pdf

[Nobade]

Would way rather see 25 rimfire make a comeback. More bullet, less speed for good squirrel killing. Sounds like these manufacturers are getting desperate to come up with something new.

[Mk42gunner]

Would way rather see 25 rimfire make a comeback. More bullet, less speed for good squirrel killing. Sounds like these manufacturers are getting desperate to come up with something new.
I agree.

For edible small game, I really don't think you need any more velocity than about 1400 fps. And probably trainloads of rabbits and squirrels have been killed with a .22 going anywhere from 1000 to 1300 fps.

However, it seems that not many people actually hunt for the table any more.

Robert

[Kestrel4k]

I see that Winchester/Olin is listed as the support products supplier.

Now that they've pretty much orphaned the 17 WSM, they need a new bunch of suckers I guess.

[Beaverhunter2]

This thread is the first I've heard of a 21 Sharp. Does anyone know more?

[Kosh75287]

It sounds like I'd rather have a rimfire version of the .25 Hornet wildcat, instead.

[Texas by God]

A 5mm “Stinger”?
Just what the world needs.
Not.


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[912]

I generally don't like to poopoo anything knew, but this thing makes less than 0 sense.


Would way rather see 25 rimfire make a comeback. More bullet, less speed for good squirrel killing. Sounds like these manufacturers are getting desperate to come up with something new.

My personal solution is 32 S&W long with a 60 grain JSP. Easily gets 1200 fps from a rifle, plus centerfire reloadability/reliability.

[uscra112]

It sounds like I'd rather have a rimfire version of the .25 Hornet wildcat, instead.

That would be the .25 Stevens HV, loaded to about 1800 fps.

[Thundarstick]

Is this not like a 22lr, with out a healed bullet? Sort of a baby 22 WMR. It'll probably be everything the 17hm2 is, without the case neck splitting issues. I've often wondered why this route wasn't taken years ago. On top of that, it'll probably simply function in semiautomatic actions, where the 17hm2 was a real bear in semiautomatic actions.
If this thing ever hits the market I'll buy one!

[Digital Dan]

Boys will never stop trying to fix things not broken.

I've killed several tons of hogs with .22 CB Shorts.

[uscra112]

Looks like just that. Case just big enough that it won't enter most .22 LR chambers, pressure quoted is on par with the Stinger-type .22 rounds, so case can be made on the same machinery as from the same coins as the .22LR., just slightly bigger body die and no neck-down operation. Bullet could be plated lead or jacketed, to stand 1800 fps. No big changes to semi-autos that already handle .22LR. So maybe it will be what the .17 HMR ought to have been.

Will I buy one? Not at my age. I just don't see it having enough of an advantage over an accurate .22LR for yard varmints.

[BadgerShooter]

I wish American ammo makers would put some of that effort into making some consistently good match 22lr competitive with the best Lapua or Eley.
I remember when Federal made a run of ammo for the US shooting team for the Atlanta Olympics. It was supposed to be the best in the world using a dimpled base case like some of the russian ammo. I bought some - some of the cases had dimples, some didn't and it shot horribly. Just sliding the tray out of the sleeve and seeing different case bases scattered throughout the tray was just awesome. It doesn't appear we have gotten any better. We have been told that junk is quality for so long that a lot of us just accept the poor performance as normal.

[uscra112]

Nevah hoppen, mon. American ammo mfgrs. made some fine ammo when the belly-shooting craze dominated competitive shooting, (Depression years and up into the '60s.) Almost every burg big enough to have a hardware store had weekly matches, they even shot indoors in winter. National .22 match results were always in the forefront of advertising. Full-page ads in the Rifleman every month. Not no more. Real precision shooting with the .22 is now a niche market, which doesn't earn the ammo mfgrs. enough money and/or market visibility for them to care.

That Federal stuff was superb ammo. I bought some at a gun show in the early '00s, and gaily shot it up practicing with my Ballards, thinking I would buy a case. Little did I know that it was collector ammo by then.

If you had a bad experience, what you got was a mixed lot.

[Mk42gunner]

I've still got a brick or so of the Federal Match ammo. I reserve it for use in the Savage/Anschutz Model 64.

When the ammo was new, it shot quite comparably to Eley Tenex in a Remington Model 581 that had been reworked into a Boys rifle.

Robert

[uscra112]

Good for you! Me, I have maybe ten rounds of it. Maybe it'll bring a fat price per round from collectors someday. :roll:

[BadgerShooter]

With the rocketing popularity of PRS style rimfire matches, the demand for precision ammo is skyrocketing. The local shop had cases of Lapua and Eley premium match ammo and they are completely wiped out. I shot, competed and coached Smallbore on a State and National Level since the late '70s. There are probably 25 clubs here in my state that are running precision matches and long range rimfire matches. My stash of match ammo from the last year the 50M rimfire championships were at Camp Perry are drying up. I think the demand is there, but I am not sure our resident rimfire manufacturers have any interest in doing better. Pity

[uscra112]

It remains for a few experienced shooters not affiliated with a gun mfgr, ammo mfgr, trade magazine or "influencer"web site to buy a rifle and a brick or two of ammo to test. Volunteers?

[GONRA]

elmacgyver0 - GONRA sure sees a red flag with the "Best if used by ..." stuff.
Bet its some new priming compositon with "uncertain" self life? ???
Who NOS! !!

[uscra112]

elmacgyver0 - GONRA sure sees a red flag with the "Best if used by ..." stuff. Bet its some new priming compositon with "uncertain" self life? ???
Who NOS! !!

???Huh???? What did I miss?

[Thundarstick]

Moving out of the 1800s and getting rid of that healed bullet will go a long way twards accuracy! Bullet base, primer composition, and case crimp go into that accuracy formula. I'm guessing everyone here knows if you shoot match ammo in ****ty sporter chamber you get ****ty accuracy? Using a flat base bullet can help with the consistency with out having to ram the bullet into the lands.

If this goes into production, I'm in line to buy one!

[M-Tecs]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/07/10/21-sharp-rimfire-cartridge-winchester/

The new 21 Sharp cartridge not only operates at the same Maximum Average Pressure of 24,000 psi and has the same overall length (1″) as the 22 LR, but it also apparently uses the 22 Long Rifle cartridge case – case dimensions of the two cartridges are literally identical. So looks like Winchester engineers created this cartridge by simply designing a non-heeled bullet that fits the 22 LR case which resulted in a non-standard bullet diameter of .2105″ (5.347mm).

[uscra112]

Moving out of the 1800s and getting rid of that healed bullet will go a long way twards accuracy! Bullet base, primer composition, and case crimp go into that accuracy formula. I'm guessing everyone here knows if you shoot match ammo in ****ty sporter chamber you get ****ty accuracy? Using a flat base bullet can help with the consistency with out having to ram the bullet into the lands. If this goes into production, I'm in line to buy one!

Ancient or not, the heeled-bullet .22LR, properly made and in a correctly sized chamber, is one of the most accurate cartridges ever made. Switching to a jacketed bullet won't improve on that. Assuming they DO use a jacketed bullet, it will have to be made to great precision so as to fit the throat, just to break even. That will increase cost and limit alternate bullet choices. There are no free lunches in engineering, only trade-offs.

[Thundarstick]

Ancient or not, the heeled-bullet .22LR, properly made and in a correctly sized chamber, is one of the most accurate cartridges ever made.

I'm going to have to call BS on this statement! If it where true, we'd still be shooting healed externally lubed bullets in everything. I'll put my .222 up against a match 22lr at 50 yards and see who has the most consistent results time after time. I've said over and over, "I didn't know what frustration was, until I started shooting precision 22lr!".

[Digital Dan]

I like the .222, and .22 Hornet quite a bit, and see little point in the .21 Sharp.

That said, I'll put my .22 LR up against your .222 at 50 yards, 7 days a week.

https://i.imgur.com/k1VGyJ6.jpg

[Thundarstick]

I love those one group proofs.:roll:

[376Steyr]

Best guess I've seen so far as to why the .21 Sharp was created is that it will be able to use lead-free projectiles, to meet the regulations of a certain large Left-coast state. If that is the case, it is no sillier than all the recent "straight-wall" cartridges designed for deer hunting in the Midwest.

[Frank V]

Though not personally interested, if it sells guns, draws new shooters, I’m for it.
Wish they’d put the effort into making the .22lr more affordable without lessening quality though!

[uscra112]

Has occurred to me that, assuming they use a frangible bullet, that this .21 Sharp would have a safety advantage over the .22LR. The .22LR can ricochet a long distance. A thin-skinned jacketed .21 Sharp bullet would break up. I would find that to be a good justification for buying in, if I were still living in Michigan where the land was billiard-table flat in every direction.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Has occurred to me that, assuming they use a frangible bullet, that this .21 Sharp would have a safety advantage over the .22LR. The .22LR can ricochet a long distance. A thin-skinned jacketed .21 Sharp bullet would break up. I would find that to be a good justification for buying in, if I were still living in Michigan where the land was billiard-table flat in every direction.

Breakup at .22 LR velocities?

I think the person posting it is designed to satisfy non-lead projectile areas is the future of this round.

[uscra112]

Breakup at .22 LR velocities?

They're claiming 1800 fps.

In the 1970s we used to buy .22 Short "gallery shot" to kill pigeons in our factory's high bay without damaging the roof. I doubt it even reached 600 fps The bullet was sintered from lead powder.