Ladle pour and flux routine

[huntinlever]

I understand the idea behind leaving a film of some sort of flux or reduction agent on top of a bottom-pour setup, but curious on some of the fluxing processes ladle-pourers use. I smelt all Rotometals and honestly, not even sure I need to do much cleanup there, if at all. I just want to ensure the blend I'm smelting is well done and ready for the casting pot. It goes into the Lee furnace clean.

My usual method is to come to temp (94-3-3, 725Fish), drop a tablespoon or so of sawdust, allow to carbonize, stir it well in, making sure to scrape the sides of the pot thoroughly, skim completely, and start casting. At some point during a casting session, which I usually do in 2 hour increments, I'll repeat the sawdust to reduce the oxidized metal back in.

That obviously leaves a growing oxidized skin that I will reduce at inexact times. I think it was Larry Gibson who said you don't need to worry about the oxidized skin somehow being preferential oxidation (i.e., over time you are losing a greater and greater amount of tin, so you are changing your alloy as you cast) so I've been less concerned about when I will re-reduce. But perhaps I misunderstood him or am missing something critical here, so getting your thoughts.

On my Accurate 46-405VG I am keeping only bullets that look good visually, 390.0-391.9 grains.

[Gobeyond]

I didn’t realize to re-reduce. If it was fluxed enough it was ok. But I do get a lot of oxidation, clear only lasts a few minutes, and it’s starting to get in the way with my ladle casting. How much will go back in the pot? Sounds like the answer to this problem. Just flux again.

[Recycled bullet]

I understand the idea behind leaving a film of some sort of flux or reduction agent on top of a bottom-pour setup, but curious on some of the fluxing processes ladle-pourers use. I smelt all Rotometals and honestly, not even sure I need to do much cleanup there, if at all. I just want to ensure the blend I'm smelting is well done and ready for the casting pot. It goes into the Lee furnace clean.

My usual method is to come to temp (94-3-3, 725Fish), drop a tablespoon or so of sawdust, allow to carbonize, stir it well in, making sure to scrape the sides of the pot thoroughly, skim completely, and start casting. At some point during a casting session, which I usually do in 2 hour increments, I'll repeat the sawdust to reduce the oxidized metal back in.

That obviously leaves a growing oxidized skin that I will reduce at inexact times. I think it was Larry Gibson who said you don't need to worry about the oxidized skin somehow being preferential oxidation (i.e., over time you are losing a greater and greater amount of tin, so you are changing your alloy as you cast) so I've been less concerned about when I will re-reduce. But perhaps I misunderstood him or am missing something critical here, so getting your thoughts.

On my Accurate 46-405VG I am keeping only bullets that look good visually, 390.0-391.9 grains.I periodically toss in a tootsie roll size piece of paraffin wax into the lead pot and manipulate and mix it up all together, the molten wax and molten metal with the ladle.

All the dirt sticks to the wax and floats to the top then the wax Burns off. This makes it very easy to periodically clean the top of the melt with a small spoon.


The mold requires less frequent cleaning and the bullets cast out higher quality with fewer rejects due to voids or contaminated alloy.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230625/c56d886c17195622a202202c4ca05e12.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230625/800974e064109c665b3f6a6b32c95b6f.jpg

[Winger Ed.]

After metal detecting some Civil War camp sights were troops spent a few to several months:
We found lots and lots of puddles of Lead with a lot of dross & crud in them.

I think I figured out how they got there.
They were issued some loaded paper cartridge ammo, but also just loose powder and Lead ingots.
Troopers would melt Lead over a fire,,,,, in the same small cast Iron frying pan the ate from.
As they went along, they'd push the crud to one side, dip & pour from the other.
When there wasn't enough clean Lead left to dip up with the ladle, they flung what was in the pan off onto the ground.

[country gent]

I run purchased alloys in a 100 lb pot when ladle casting.When the pot comes up to temp I flux it with with sawdust and beeswax or paraffin working the flux down thru the melt and the melt up thru the flux scraping the sides and bottom. Then every 100 or so pours I flux again with just the wax. Lower pot temps slow the oxidation some I also when filling the ladle "swirl" when filling the ladle.

[dverna]

I run purchased alloys in a 100 lb pot when ladle casting.When the pot comes up to temp I flux it with with sawdust and beeswax or paraffin working the flux down thru the melt and the melt up thru the flux scraping the sides and bottom. Then every 100 or so pours I flux again with just the wax. Lower pot temps slow the oxidation some I also when filling the ladle "swirl" when filling the ladle.

+1

My ladle cast furnace is only 20 lbs but I do the same.

[Dusty Bannister]

For those that are concerned about the loss of elements through oxidation, BNE did this test.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?282633-Solder-Analysis-What-happens-to-Tin-over-time&highlight=loss+tin+oxide

[huntinlever]

For those that are concerned about the loss of elements through oxidation, BNE did this test.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?282633-Solder-Analysis-What-happens-to-Tin-over-time&highlight=loss+tin+oxide

Perfect. Thanks Dusty.

And thanks for the posts, guys.

[405grain]

10,000 years ago when I first started casting I was using a ladle, a small cast iron skillet, and a Coleman single burner white gas stove. (I've since become spoiled with bottom pour furnaces) Something I learned quickly back when I was ladle pouring was that the lead in the pot would oxidize pretty fast if I returned the sprue to the pot with each set of bullets cast. I'd flux with beeswax and all would be good. But, it would take a lot longer for a film to form on the surface if I didn't put the sprue's back in the pot. Instead I'd open the sprue plate, then drop the cut off lead into a can. Then open the mold to drop out the bullets. Wash, rinse, repeat. Once the can had a lot of pieces of alloy in it, and it was time to flux the pot again, then I'd return all that material to the pot. I can't say for sure, but I think that dropping the sprue back into the pot after every cast might have been splashing more oxygen into the melt. If you're ladle pouring you can cut the times that you need to flux by waiting to put all the sprue cuttings back into the pot, then adding them all at once.

[imashooter2]

I melted, fluxed/reduced, then cast until I was done or the pot needed a refill. Since I ladle cast with a 2.5 quart pot on a Coleman I was usually finished before the pot needed refilling. If it did need a refill, it was repeat the original steps.

My ladle technique was drag the ladle across the melt surface towards me to move any dross, turn it slightly and scoop back into the clean melt to fill, pour and repeat.