.303 British 180 gr cast - Powder Options?

[Hanzy4200]

I was finally able to locate a Lyman 314299 mold last month. I have been loading them over various charges of Unique with mixed results. My issue is this. The Lyman Manual only lists 4-5 powders for this bullet, non of which I have aside from Unique. I really want to get up above gallery load velocities. Do any of you have experience, or other manuals to reference? I have heard tell that H380 can be used, but have seen no credible data. I have probably 20+ assorted powders in my case. Any help appreciated.

[wesson357]

I use red dot and accurate 5744 in everything.

[Kraschenbirn]

H4895 with the Lee 312-185 works pretty good in my Long Branch #4 Mk 1.

Bill

[Milky Duck]

AR2206 or the hodgdon equivilent is a go to for reduced loads..... pretty much any starting load for a 180grn jacketed projectile will be good starting point.... have a look at what youve got, powder wise,and see what data you can find thats close ,and reduce carefully from there.

[Thumbcocker]

4198 works for me.

[Bigslug]

Look to the starting loads for similar weight bullets in the .30-40 Krag and 7.62x54R - very similar rounds. 7.65 Argentine/Belgian - also very close.

Also compare the powders that cross over from the .303 to the .308 with the 311299 bullet; similar size and volume rounds - the starting loads are nearly identical. The starting loads for the other listed .308 powders might be an option for you.

If you're using the 314299 or 316299, your bullet weight is probably something just above 200 grains, depending on alloy. The British MK1 through MK6 loads were a 215 grain bullet at 2000fps, which I've duplicated with 5744. Given that the 174 grain/2440 fps MK7 load was adopted well prior to WWI, your sights are likely calibrated for that. I've found that a 300 yard sight setting (or the big battle sight aperture on a No.4) works pretty well to get you on at 100 yards with the bigger, slower bullet.

[Texas by God]

3031 for the 2000 fps loads is worth a try.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[405grain]

I don't have a 303, but the 7.65x53 has similar case capacity and uses the same bullets. As others have noted; your cast bullet will weigh around 200 grains, not 180. I've found best accuracy with the 311299 (powder coated to size at .3125") with a 24.0 grain charge of Shooters World Buffalo Rifle, which is around 1900 fps with my 29" barrel. This powder is almost the same as 5744. My recommendation is that you try 5744, and that you work up from published starting loads with this bullet/powder combination. (Lyman #4 cast handbook lists 25.0 grains as max., so my load is close to the top. You should start lower and work up.)

[P Flados]

I looked up the 314299 and it is advertised as a 200 gr mold, but the thread title asks about a 180 gr bullet.

No specific gun (with barrel length), pressure range (near max, "not too hot", best velocity but mild pressure, etc), bullet lube, or desired COAL were given.

My Quickload does not have the 314299, but it does have the similar 311299. Now Quickload runs are not "proven load data" but they can give you a good idea what to expect as you work up a load.

I would say that 1800 fps might meet the "above gallery" velocity, but the potential for 2000 fps and up is closer to a serious round for a typical 25" gun. The list of available powders that should be able to exceed 2000 fps is pretty long (scroll down in the window below to see them all). I would also note that any load with less than say 85% fill is "iffy" unless the powder is known to be Ok for reduced loads.



Cartridge : .303 British (SAAMI)
Bullet : 202, LYM LRN GC 311299 (Diameter manually changed to 0.314")
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.075 inch = 78.11 mm (Default that popped up)
Barrel Length : 25.0 inch = 635.0 mm

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 *T 95.5 46.5 3.01 2451 99.5 42875 7884 1.407 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T 99.6 45.0 2.92 2422 98.4 42875 7710 1.410 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 100.5 46.6 3.02 2419 98.3 42875 7686 1.438 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 100.1 48.0 3.11 2411 96.3 42875 7779 1.418 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C 99.8 45.8 2.97 2409 98.1 42875 7589 1.423 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C*T 96.7 45.9 2.97 2406 97.9 42875 7656 1.431 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 94.5 46.4 3.01 2405 95.4 42875 7698 1.422 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 94.5 46.4 3.01 2405 95.4 42875 7698 1.422 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 89.9 45.5 2.95 2399 98.2 42875 7491 1.423 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon LVR 96.7 44.9 2.91 2394 97.5 42875 7472 1.423 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 89.6 44.3 2.87 2385 99.0 42875 7233 1.427 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 92.3 43.3 2.81 2374 99.6 42875 7136 1.455 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 88.5 41.1 2.66 2372 99.1 42875 7174 1.444 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder TS 15.5 *C *T 94.3 41.9 2.71 2371 100.0 42875 6909 1.441 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 84.9 43.0 2.79 2370 99.7 42875 7090 1.444 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 102.0 45.8 2.97 2370 99.3 42009 7080 1.434 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 *C 96.6 45.8 2.96 2369 97.9 42875 7151 1.429 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C 98.6 47.3 3.06 2367 92.6 42875 7495 1.423 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C 89.8 41.7 2.70 2364 99.1 42875 7100 1.445 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 82.1 41.0 2.66 2362 99.9 42875 6808 1.437 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 89.2 41.4 2.68 2362 98.7 42875 7113 1.445 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 91.1 43.2 2.80 2356 97.7 42875 7181 1.449 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 92.4 41.9 2.72 2356 100.0 42875 6709 1.482 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 88.9 38.6 2.50 2352 100.0 42875 6418 1.443 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 6,5 StaBall *T*C 100.0 50.0 3.24 2351 98.5 42875 7104 1.424 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World SW4350 98.4 45.2 2.93 2351 95.6 42875 7252 1.451 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Match Rifle 87.1 41.7 2.70 2349 100.0 42875 6667 1.461 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 85.1 41.7 2.70 2349 100.0 42875 6667 1.461 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 84.5 41.9 2.71 2348 99.0 42875 6957 1.441 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 91.0 41.5 2.69 2347 99.0 42875 6865 1.427 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 85.5 39.7 2.57 2345 99.4 42875 6883 1.449 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 *T 100.6 45.7 2.96 2340 94.3 42875 7118 1.433 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 98.7 45.6 2.95 2339 94.5 42875 7110 1.433 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 87.1 39.5 2.56 2338 100.0 42875 6427 1.492 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26 *C 102.0 50.9 3.30 2335 94.7 34692 8487 1.543
Alliant Reloder-19 *C 102.0 47.3 3.07 2334 91.8 39900 7557 1.466
Shooters World Long Rifle 96.6 43.9 2.84 2332 96.8 42875 7014 1.454 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Precision 90.0 40.7 2.63 2330 99.7 42875 6681 1.459 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 *C 98.7 43.2 2.80 2327 99.9 42875 6616 1.449 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C 88.8 41.6 2.70 2325 100.0 42875 6548 1.452 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 102.0 45.3 2.94 2323 97.3 38442 7290 1.501
Hodgdon VARGET *T 91.0 40.8 2.65 2322 98.5 42875 6777 1.440 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C 82.4 38.5 2.49 2321 99.7 42875 6592 1.448 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 *C 86.4 39.4 2.56 2319 100.0 42875 6395 1.456 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 77.7 39.4 2.55 2318 100.0 42875 6390 1.449 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C 87.0 39.5 2.56 2317 99.7 42875 6616 1.466 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 91.6 40.2 2.60 2317 98.7 42875 6663 1.446 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 92.0 43.3 2.81 2316 94.5 42875 6967 1.453 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 83.9 42.0 2.72 2316 96.9 42875 6852 1.449 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 102.0 49.9 3.23 2315 91.7 40839 7269 1.456
IMR 4451 Enduron *C*T 93.1 42.7 2.77 2314 95.0 42875 6902 1.441 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 80.9 40.4 2.62 2313 99.9 42875 6455 1.472 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T 84.5 37.9 2.46 2312 100.0 42875 5920 1.452 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 83.9 38.9 2.52 2312 99.7 42875 6503 1.449 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C 102.0 49.4 3.20 2311 91.5 35360 8096 1.535
Accurate 2230 80.6 40.5 2.62 2306 99.4 42875 6484 1.463 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 82.0 36.9 2.39 2306 100.0 42875 6144 1.447 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 *C 94.7 39.9 2.58 2304 100.0 42875 6030 1.461 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 83.7 39.5 2.56 2303 97.8 42875 6631 1.448 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World AR Plus 79.6 39.6 2.57 2301 99.9 42875 6334 1.468 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 *C 88.4 40.2 2.61 2299 100.0 42875 6157 1.454 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C 81.4 40.3 2.61 2298 98.9 42875 6532 1.454 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4166 Enduron *C*T 91.5 40.7 2.64 2285 95.1 42875 6613 1.450 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 81.9 38.8 2.51 2283 100.0 42875 6010 1.454 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Tactical Rifle 78.7 38.9 2.52 2281 99.5 42875 6251 1.456 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 102.0 48.6 3.15 2276 87.0 36994 7607 1.513
Vihtavuori N555 *C*T 102.0 46.4 3.01 2275 96.2 32885 7642 1.596
Accurate 2700 92.0 44.5 2.89 2274 94.1 42875 6547 1.461 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 82.4 37.7 2.44 2271 99.8 42875 6136 1.457 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x *C 79.3 34.7 2.25 2262 100.0 42875 5720 1.473 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T 102.0 47.9 3.10 2262 87.6 38371 7136 1.497
Accurate 2015 82.2 36.5 2.37 2262 100.0 42875 5723 1.479 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C 102.0 48.4 3.13 2255 85.7 34453 7705 1.560
Norma 200 *C 76.3 34.6 2.24 2246 100.0 42875 5587 1.491 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C 102.0 47.9 3.10 2246 88.7 33767 7608 1.574
Hodgdon CFE BLK *C 75.1 37.0 2.40 2244 99.6 42875 5963 1.460 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron *C*T 102.0 46.1 2.98 2242 88.5 38503 6875 1.503
Vihtavuori N133 *C 87.0 37.0 2.40 2239 100.0 42875 5523 1.463 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 68.3 33.1 2.14 2225 100.0 42875 5482 1.462 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 *C 81.6 35.4 2.29 2222 100.0 42875 5409 1.474 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 75.4 32.9 2.13 2216 100.0 42875 5415 1.457 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T 102.0 46.3 3.00 2215 96.3 31393 7421 1.622
IMR 4198 77.9 32.4 2.10 2215 100.0 42875 5238 1.458 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder TS 11 *C *T 75.3 33.6 2.18 2213 100.0 42875 5256 1.468 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7 73.9 33.2 2.15 2211 100.0 42875 5312 1.479 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 102.0 50.3 3.26 2210 82.3 32744 7545 1.599
Shooters World Buffalo Rifle 65.3 28.3 1.84 2187 100.0 42875 5187 1.457 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744 63.9 28.3 1.84 2187 100.0 42875 5187 1.457 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 102.0 51.6 3.34 2176 87.4 32748 7284 1.602
Shooters World Blackout 62.1 30.1 1.95 2174 100.0 42875 5007 1.464 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 102.0 46.8 3.03 2174 86.7 30889 7322 1.641
Accurate 3100 102.0 47.3 3.07 2169 92.0 30641 7021 1.663
Vihtavuori N120 *C 76.1 32.2 2.09 2162 100.0 42875 4846 1.490 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227 70.3 29.8 1.93 2160 100.0 42875 4854 1.475 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 *T 102.0 46.0 2.98 2159 84.9 33481 6757 1.593
Vihtavuori N125 *C 71.5 30.9 2.00 2155 100.0 42875 4812 1.490 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 69.8 29.6 1.92 2153 100.0 42875 4820 1.473 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 *C 102.0 46.8 3.03 2139 88.7 31855 6644 1.629
IMR 7828 102.0 46.0 2.98 2122 82.7 30509 6993 1.655
Alliant Reloder-25 *C 102.0 47.1 3.05 2096 88.2 27822 7272 1.723
Vihtavuori N565 *C*T 102.0 48.6 3.15 2073 81.1 26520 7090 1.763
IMR 7977 Enduron *C*T 102.0 46.8 3.03 2046 75.1 32959 5807 1.631
Alliant 2400 54.6 24.1 1.56 2041 100.0 42875 4115 1.509 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Enforcer 54.0 25.6 1.66 2031 100.0 42875 4080 1.522 ! Near Maximum !

[Hanzy4200]

My apologies. You are all correct, it is a 200 gr. I glanced at the wrong tub of .30 cal bullets.

[Hanzy4200]

I have quite a few of the powders listed. H335, CFE223, CFE Black, 4064, Varget, TAC, ect. Any of these stand out as a good candidate?

[P Flados]

Here is a shorter list with H380 (from post 1) plus powders in post # 11. I also poked at jacketed load data at https://shootersreference.com/reloadingdata/303-british/. The heaviest bullets were 174 and 180 gr, but the data helps to support if a powder is likely to be ok down at the charges predicted by Quickload.

H335, Tac & CFE Blk all look on the low side for percent fill. H335 and Tac do have recommended jacketed loads with lower percent fills. I did not see any for CFE Blk.

I have used a lot of WC 844 (milsurp version of H335) in some odd applications and it has never failed to do at least decent and in a couple of cases it has done excellent. H335 seems to be available and not overpriced. With powder cost and powder required per load both being good, this will probably be one of your lowest cost options if you plan to shoot a bunch. I would try it if this was my gun (but then again I have a lot - several 8# jugs :mrgreen:).

Both 4064 powders are "old style" traditional extruded powders (a good thing for your use). If this is IMR 4064, understand that replacement could be difficult. If this is Accurate 4064, it looks to be available and this is a plus for considering it.

H380 and CFE223 are ball powders and show decent percent fills. They have good availability and do not seem as overpriced as some. I see no reason not to try these.

Varget seems to be available but the price premium is pretty steep.

What ever you try, you will need to work up your loads. I did a Quickload comparison and it looks to me like starting loads should probably be a couple of grains below the starting loads shown for a 180 or 174. If your COAL is much shorter than shown, consider a slightly lower starting load.



Cartridge : .303 British (SAAMI)
Bullet : ?? .308, 202, LYM LRN GC 311299
Useable Case Capaci: 50.350 grain H2O = 3.269 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.075 inch = 78.11 mm
Barrel Length : 25.0 inch = 635.0 mm

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 89.9 45.5 2.95 2399 98.2 42875 7491 1.423 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 91.1 43.2 2.80 2356 97.7 42875 7181 1.449 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 92.4 41.9 2.72 2356 100.0 42875 6709 1.482 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET *T 91.0 40.8 2.65 2322 98.5 42875 6777 1.440 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 77.7 39.4 2.55 2319 100.0 42875 6390 1.449 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 91.6 40.2 2.60 2317 98.7 42875 6663 1.446 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 83.9 42.0 2.72 2316 96.9 42875 6852 1.449 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE BLK *C 75.1 37.0 2.40 2244 99.6 42875 5963 1.460 ! Near Maximum !

[Leadmad]

4198 works for me.

Same here have used the 314299 in a variety of .30 calibres and its a great projectile 21-25 grains of 2207 / 4198 with a light filler and 1650 to 1920 fps

[Whole Bunches]

24gr IMR4198, 27gr AA2200, 30.5gr IMR4895, no fillers.

[Gobeyond]

I’ve used Varget in old antique rifles. A light cautious load might be 27.5 grs and room to work up. I was given it by experienced old gun shooters on forums. Maybe 30 for your gun. What’s the case capacity of 303? It’s a strong gun. About a 1.9 dipper. It’s not in my manuals. In fact a 303 British was the reformed case. I think we’ve got something.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I use 5744 in all my Cast Boolits Rifle Loads. It works so well that I don't need to look Elsewhere. Not one to chase loads all over looking for the absolute best one hole load when this one powder delivers "Acceptable Accuracy" in all of my Cast Boolit Shooters. Those include .30-30,.308,.30-06,.303,.35-303,.45-70. Then All Mid Range Pistol loads .40 S&W,.45 ACP .44 Spec/.44 MR Mags are done with W231/HP-38, .44 Magnum and .410 Shotguns get H110/W296. .30 Cal. jacketed loads all revolve around IMR4895, and all .223's get W748/BL-C2... All of the loads for these cartridges have been standardized long ago, so there is no need to experiment. I just load so I can go shoot something. IE: Find a Load, Go Shoot Something with it!

Thus I ended up with several Big Jugs of powders instead of 40 different 1 lb bottles of stuff I'll never use. I have IMR 3031 and a couple of others from 40+ years ago. I also have some Unique and 2400 I use the Unique in Slug loads for Shot Shells.

One thing you have got to consider,,,, I mean, "Should be Considering" is "What are your expectations for your rifle?" and next, "Can you actually shoot that well?" It is pointless to have a one hole rifle if the best you can shoot it is 2-3".
Instead of chasing the "Golden BB", you should be shooting more to increase your shooting skill. Then after you can shoot Sub MOA from the Standing Position you can refine your loads down to one hole.

Air Rifles work good for practice!

My .02

Randy

[ukrifleman]

Rel 7 is my preferred powder for cast loads, as I find it burns much cleaner than 5744.
ukrifleman

[leadhead]

16.0 - 19.0 grains of 2400. I use 2400 in most all my military rifles except the 6.5 Swede, then
it's 14.0 grains.

[Larry Gibson]

Either flavor of 4895 is my go to powder for the 314299 bullet in my 303s. I use a Dacron filler also.

[15meter]

Some light reading here:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

And more if your rifle is a smellie:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article