Fixing Your Truck Is Sometimes Just Doing The Easiest Thing

[jonp]

Last year I took my F150 to a shop as the engine knock sensor code was on and I just did not have time to pull the intake manifold and fix it.
They did that just fine and found several other things like a wheel seal and so on which was good. I replaced those myself a couple of years ago with cheap Chinese so don't use those.
When I got it back the dreaded P0701/704 codes popped, vacuum leak both sides. Uh
GH
One thing led to another and I finally got at it. I've learned a lot about running down a vacuum leak. Found a 4wd actuator blown and replaced both but still a leak. Cleaned the throttle body and put in a new gasket, replaced the MAF sensor, 2 vacuum discs, traced all the lines. Finally was pricing new gaskets and intake manifold figuring the shop either cracked the manifold somehow or messed up the gaskets putting it back on.
Sprayed Carb Cleaner around the front and the fuel trim went negative confirming so got ready to order parts then it occurred to me to loosen all 10 manifold bolts and retighten them.
Loosened all the bolts then snugged in sequence followed by torquing to spec in sequence.
Warning light gone, case solved.
Sometimes just start at the simplest thing.

[Half Dog]

That’s more than I care to do. I’m glad it turned out ok for you.

[Froogal]

Not too many years ago, none of those things ever gave any trouble because none of that stuff was even on a vehicle.

[Winger Ed.]

Sounds like somebody didn't have a inch pounds torque wrench or bothered to look up the tightening sequence.

[MUSTANG]

My sympathies. Sounds like poor technicians, poor technical training, and potential don't give a..... personality by the shop.

I sent the John Deere in for repairs a month ago; as winter was ending the front right axle locked up and would not move. Dealer took 3 weeks to "Get to It" and assess. Came back with a diagnosis that the Bearing race way had shattered and ball bearings everywhere in the front axle assembly. Authorized ordering parts - two weeks later parts were in and front drive reassembled; call from dealer that the problem was not resolved. Seems that the "Bearing Seat Area" was wallowed out, more problems with the front gearing, and new seals were leaking that they had just put in. Authorized ordering more parts; will be waiting for another two weeks; unfortunately the wet spring/early summer is sponsoring a large "Weed Problem" I will have to address after I get the tractor back.

I have come to expect (not accept and be pleased with) poor Service in all areas of our lives and economy. Sure wish we could go back to a simpler life, people with pride in their work, people with good skills in their work area, and a commitment to Customer Service. I could do much of this work - but buying the reference material (Repair Manuals, etc..) is as costly as having it done.

[Nobade]

Good on you for having the patience to figure it out and fix it correctly. Things like that have taught me that if I can at all do a job to do it myself so I know it's either done right or who to blame.

[GONRA]

"Bearing Seat Area" sounds like a Major Big Deal to GONRA.......
Basic machine structure - NOT just "R&R".

[jsizemore]

I decided I wanted a 90's era Honda TRX300FW for my first ATV. About bullet proof and owner repairable. I was gifted a '91 that had sat 14 years. Amazing compression and no major leaks. After I got it up and running it started some light smoking out the exhaust so it was time to change the valve seals. I watched some videos of the "pros" disassembling motors and them busting valve cover, exhaust/intake and head bolts left and right going fast with battery impacts. Couldn't believe the ignorance of basic engine rebuilding. All for the sake of speed and appearing they knew what they were doing. Just sad.

[Recycled bullet]

I hope you call the shop back and let them know that there was a comeback. This sounds like a failure of workshop practices and a lack of education on behalf of whoever worked on your truck.

They took the intake manifold off to make access and service the knock sensors, and you redoing the torque sequence brought the two halves into alignment and sealed the leak.

A lot of auto shops are super thirsty for technicians and will excuse all kinds of nonsense if they can find a part swapper who comes in every day and does not make too many mistakes.

[Hannibal]

I'd venture a guess that they used a battery impact to pull it apart AND put it back together. Good shop to stay away from no matter what.

[Finster101]

My sympathies. Sounds like poor technicians, poor technical training, and potential don't give a..... personality by the shop.

I sent the John Deere in for repairs a month ago; as winter was ending the front right axle locked up and would not move. Dealer took 3 weeks to "Get to It" and assess. Came back with a diagnosis that the Bearing race way had shattered and ball bearings everywhere in the front axle assembly. Authorized ordering parts - two weeks later parts were in and front drive reassembled; call from dealer that the problem was not resolved. Seems that the "Bearing Seat Area" was wallowed out, more problems with the front gearing, and new seals were leaking that they had just put in. Authorized ordering more parts; will be waiting for another two weeks; unfortunately the wet spring/early summer is sponsoring a large "Weed Problem" I will have to address after I get the tractor back.

I have come to expect (not accept and be pleased with) poor Service in all areas of our lives and economy. Sure wish we could go back to a simpler life, people with pride in their work, people with good skills in their work area, and a commitment to Customer Service. I could do much of this work - but buying the reference material (Repair Manuals, etc..) is as costly as having it done.


That sounds like it translates to an axle housing to me. Hard for me to understand how that was not seen when the spun race was diaged.

[HWooldridge]

This is why I always attempt to fix my own mechanical issues - about the only thing I don’t mess with are air conditioning problems, primarily because I don’t have a set of gauges.

I bought a used JD 2020 about 10 years ago, which lost a sleeve O-ring a few months after I got it home. I had no choice except to either repair it myself or have the local JD franchise do it. For me to overhaul with the head and valves done professionally was about $2200 (at the time) - the dealer wanted $6500. I went ahead on my own and the job turned out fine for several years now - not sure if the dealer could have done a better job and there is no way to know.

A good service tech is worth his/her weight in gold but it’s increasingly rare to find those people nowadays.

[Winger Ed.]

- the dealer wanted $6500. I .

The JD dealer bit me once----- but only once.

I'd never worked on a Diesel before until I needed to overhaul the tractor my Dad let over heat and burn up.

I pulled the head, but couldn't get the three injectors out. So I took it in to their shop.
I only wanted the old injectors pulled, and buy three new ones along with a couple filters.

When I picked it up, the bill was right at $800.
Apparently, without looking at the work order, they just ran it through and did a full overhaul on it, new valves, springs & all.

[WRideout]

I once helped a lady who brought her car to my friend's machine shop for a cracked head. It was an 80's vintage Dodge with the Mitsubishi engine. She had a junkyard head she wanted installed. I had never done that kind of work on an engine, but she was poor and in need, so I prayed over it and went ahead. When I got the head off, there was no apparent crack or warp in the existing head. However, the overhead cam was completely worn out. I looked at the cam on the junkyard head, and it looked pretty good, albeit a high-performance type. I cleaned everything up and installed the junk cam. To my amazement, that car ran like a scalded cat (as my dad would have said.) I plead divine guidance, since there was no way I could have known that this would work.

Wayne

[pworley1]

Finding a mechanic you can trust is getting harder and harder. The one I used for 40 years retired a few years ago so I asked him who was going to do the work on his trucks, He told me and that is who I use now. I am glad your issue had a happy ending.

[Mk42gunner]

I once bought a Dodge Ramcharger that had a bad vacuum leak. So bad it would not stay running under about 2500 RPM.

Guy I bought it from had just swapped the 318 and was transferring off the island. After messing with it for about a month, I sprayed ether all around the intake and vacuum system. Turns out he had forgotten to put back the intake bolt at the rear of the manifold he had pulled to attach the chain hoist. Found a bolt and torqued it goodntight.

4WD didn't work so I sold it for what I had in it.

Robert

[contender1]

Sometimes,, the simplest things are the cure.

Everytime I start to work on something,, I reflect upon an event about 40 years ago. A young man,,, in HS,, was in the auto mechanics program. They also competed against other schools. Well, this young man won the State title,, and was sent to the Nationals. If I recall correctly,, he placed either 16th or 19th at the Nationals.
He told me what cost him a LOT was how he had an engine problem, that he had a hard time diagnosing. It turned out to be just a fouled spark plug. He said; "It was a SIMPLE thing,, that I had overlooked."

Never forgot Kevin telling us about that.

[Winger Ed.]

A young man,,, in HS,, was in the auto mechanics program. They also competed against other schools.

Dodge sponsored a deal like that for the auto mechanics shop classes when I was in High School.
They'd line up 10-12 cars that were identical, and had identical problems that they wouldn't start or run right.

It was a hoot to watch as the competitors took off and worked on them.
Dodge was also there with a 'parts store'. If you took a bad part, say,,, a ignition coil to them, they'd give you a good one.
However; if you took them a good one to trade in,,,,, they gave you a bad one.

[Recycled bullet]

"However; if you took them a good one to trade in,,,,, they gave you a bad one."

Must have been interesting to combine the parts cannon with defect parts.

[rbuck351]

I have done my own mechanical since I was 15 or so. About 2 years ago at 72 years old, I had a mechanic I trust replace a torque converter In a dodge 1 ton with the cummins engine. I could have done it myself but not having a garage I could work in, I just didn't want to do it in the dirt driveway. That is the only time I can think of that I have had someone else work on one of my autos.

Lightly spraying starter fluid around the engine is an easy way to find a vacuum leak.

[Winger Ed.]

"However; if you took them a good one to trade in,,,,, they gave you a bad one."

Must have been interesting to combine the parts cannon with defect parts.

It was a great show.
There was a lot of head scratching going on!

[MUSTANG]

Until I was about 7 years old my Dad owned and operated a "Service Station" (Yeah, right beside the dinosaur exhibit at the Museum now). He repeatedly told me that I needed to either learn to repair vehicles myself - or get a big paying job so I could afford to have someone else do it. His wisdom worked until the last decade or so when finding skilled people and those willing to work became exceptionally difficult. Back to "Fix it Yourself" is rapidly on it's way for many of us.

[jonp]

I'd venture a guess that they used a battery impact to pull it apart AND put it back together. Good shop to stay away from no matter what.

I think you are correct. It is a shop that specializes in Ford trucks. It's all they do but I'd wager good money they put the manifold on then instead of snugging down in sequence and then torquing the same way just used the impact in a star pattern. The book is very specific on the order to tighten the bolts and it isn't in a star.

[popper]

Years ago I bought a new VW Rabbit. Drove it for a week and took it back to the dealer as I got 10 mpg. After 2 wks, I got it back - didn't find problem and couldn't get parts if they had. QTook the top off the carb, main jet was cross threaded so I epoxy'd it in. Changed the head a yr later - valve guides were worn out. A 'known' problem by VW.

[fixit]

I do a fair amount of work for several people, as well as having associations with other like minded people, and what irks me to no end is the movement towards proprietary individuality....that is; making things factory part specific, and having programming that can only be accessed and fixed by dealerships. Numerous right to repair movements are working to gain access for the little guy, but the writing is on the wall....they don't want us to be able to repair our own, and there is a sociopolitical movement that wants the rank and file masses to be herded into public transportation, which won't work without the wholesale urbanization of the population! Sorry for the rant, but I don't like where the "programmers" of the future are directing things!

[Finster101]

Fixit, as a retired dealership technician I completely agree with you. When I got out a couple of years ago a good number of our fixes were software updates to correct a problem. The average guy cannot afford the equipment and licensing to be able to do that.

[farmbif]

I have very little faith left in any dealers. I will never go back to the place I got new truck, never, ever. through my experience with them I'm better off finding independent repair people for repairs I cant or dont want to do.
ive been fortunate to find knowledgable, honest, fair, trustworthy repair people. it took time, 10 years now, and after some disappointment and getting burned a couple times I have people I can count on for proper heavy equipment, big truck, passenger vehicle and tractor and farm equipment repair.

[Winger Ed.]

..they don't want us to be able to repair our own,


Years ago a dealership mechanic told me the real money for a car dealer ship is in the service bays and at the parts counter-
not the showroom.
They've been aggressively working on getting the service work done on cars and equipment out of little shops
and our driveways and back into a dealership at least since the 70s. Look at all the special tools needed for serious work,
and some aren't even available except to a dealer. Also, planned obsolescence is big too.

I noticed in the 70s, new cars didn't have hardly any grease fittings.
My 1953 Ford truck had 32 grease fittings--- just on the shackles of the leaf springs.
Our 2002 Explorer and 2006 F250 don't have any.
When a tie rod or ball joint wore out because you couldn't grease it-- the replacement part had one.
American cars of the era were designed to be worn out 'beyond economical repair' at about 100,000 miles or so.

[MaryB]

I think you are correct. It is a shop that specializes in Ford trucks. It's all they do but I'd wager good money they put the manifold on then instead of snugging down in sequence and then torquing the same way just used the impact in a star pattern. The book is very specific on the order to tighten the bolts and it isn't in a star.

It is also not tightened to 60+ foot pounds! If my bad memory serves me that is inch pounds for torque on that plastic manifold. Over tightening could warp it between fasteners...

[MaryB]

Run into idiot techs in all jobs... I did some RF stuff for a cell company for 8 years(Alltel, sold out to Verizon and I lost a cushy side job!) and would run into stupid stuff on cell sites that used to be serviced by a different tech. Simple stuff... connectors that MUST be torqued to 8 inch pounds to be reliable at microwave frequencies... I would go to back one off and need to use a wrench on a wrench to get enough torque to break it loose then the next one would fall off if I bumped it... area I serviced ended up being a lot more reliable and Alltel noticed and asked me why. I told them about the connector issues and the must have torque wrench for it. They started requiring techs to prove they had one before being hired and had random checks done on sites to make sure it was being used.

Just one stupid thing that drove me nuts. Not changing air filters on amplifiers so they would high temp trip on hot days... I pulled filters that were plugged solid and the rack cabinet had zero airflow... and last change date written on it was 12 years ago... instead of 6 months!

To many took shortcuts so they got more site visits done each day(pay was per site visit... independent contactors), some bragged about it at a company meeting until I asked what their up time stats were compared to mine(99.99% do it right stuff runs a long time). So I visited 2 less sites per day, I was only doing preventative maintenance, they were always replacing failed amplifiers/transmitters/receivers... I made a little less, company saved money on not only paying me but on parts replaced. So my yearly bonuses were always way higher than theirs making up for less earned per week. Alltel cracked down on the lazy ones just their for a paycheck and they suddenly were buying a lot fewer replacement parts.

[MUSTANG]

Fixit, as a retired dealership technician I completely agree with you. When I got out a couple of years ago a good number of our fixes were software updates to correct a problem. The average guy cannot afford the equipment and licensing to be able to do that.

Our Son #1 has prospered in the environment you described. For many years he operated his own "Repair Shop" with 3 to 5 guys working for him and could barely make it for the first 10 years. He then started moving to the "Computer Side" doing diagnostics and code work on vehicles. He now has most of the dealers work for a fifty mile radius where he lives, because they outsource to him for a lot of the diagnostics and car computer repair work. Of course it comes at a cost - he is paying between $85K to $125K for updated/new software every year and of course the new diagnostics equipment. His 3 to 5 mechanics working for him spend 50% of their time shuttling vehicles between the shop and the dealers; the rest of their time goes to working on vehicles. He thinks he will be able to make a good living until he retires - the grand daughter is not interested in that business; so it will be sold or closed when he retires.

[Winger Ed.]

It is also not tightened to 60+ foot pounds! If my bad memory serves me that is inch pounds for torque on that plastic manifold. Over tightening could warp it between fasteners...

I changed the plastic intake on my F250 a few weeks ago.
I had to buy a inch lb. torque wrench just for it.
I'd have to double check but I think the value for the bolts was 18 inch pounds.

[jonp]

It is also not tightened to 60+ foot pounds! If my bad memory serves me that is inch pounds for torque on that plastic manifold. Over tightening could warp it between fasteners...

Your quite right MaryB. 87in lbs.
When I took off the throttle body the bolts were on tight enough that I had to use my extension ratchet to break them. Way more than specs

I noticed in the 70s, new cars didn't have hardly any grease fittings
When I changed my tie rods, linkage, ball joints, control arm and drive shaft on this truck I made sure all replacement parts had fittings. When I change the oil every 5,000 all get a shot of Lucas Red and Tacky.
On my 2006 Tundra there were grease fitting and even more on a 90's era Tacoma.

[Winger Ed.]

When I took off the throttle body the bolts were on tight enough that I had to use my extension ratchet to break them. .


I didn't pay too much attention, but I think my intake bolts had a shoulder where they'd bottom out before the manifold
got crushed from over torqueing. I'd never done one of these before, so I read up and watched every video
I could find before I pulled mine off, and don't remember anyone mentioning crushing the manifold on the install.

[jonp]

The throttle body doesn't bolt into or through the plastic manifold. I put that part in to show that the shop apparently doesn't have a torque wrench or know what one is for

[MrWolf]

A few months back my 2017 Chevy Colorado V6 4wd would "shimmy" as if you were driving over rumble strips. Contacted the dealership (out of warranty) and they wanted almost $300 to flush the system and put in a different tyranny fluid (known issue). Contacted my local guy who I use and he was about $50 more but I trust him. Got there and he said his buddy runs a tranny place and said to try a $10 additive first. Damned if it didn't work and no charge on actually putting in fluid as we bs'd. Turns out my tyranny does not have a dipstick (which I had just assumed it did) so truck had to be on lift. Luckily he could fit the small bottle in and just fill with the bolt removed. Things have really changed but my keeping it local even though it costs a lil more sure paid off this time.
Ron

[gunther]

You also need to watch the guys who put your wheels on after a tire change. It's pretty tough to change a flat when an impact wrench without a torque limiter was used to install the wheel. A torque limiter looks like a thin 6 inch extension that won't let the wrench get past the needed value. Too tight is, however, better than not tightened at all. That's worth watching for, too. If you hear a new rattle in a hub cap, pull over right now.

[Digger]

Just saw this article on dealers in the future , if true , is definitely not looking good ..
link:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/biden-s-nhtsa-just-killed-your-right-to-repair-your-own-truck/ar-AA1cPIEi?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=4e55dd3ec6a741f897d58fc4a2390f6f&ei=15

[Recycled bullet]

That article is a deliberate misrepresentation.

The nhtsa pdf letter is discussing remote telematics data access and bi directional control of safety systems and powertrain components.

Right to access is about locking or obfuscating service information or diagnostic and communications testing connections and equipment.

They are related but not the same thing.

[Ed K]

Drive three registered & insured vehicles. Sum of the ages of the three is 100+ years. It's one answer...

[Handloader109]

It truly varies. I had a f250 that cracked the starter flywheel back in 2011. Had to take it into dealer as I didn't have shop or tools. Repaired correctly, but it was a nice bill at the time, I think about $1200 or so. Daughter had a 2001 miata and was going back and forth to school between little Rock and here in NW Arkansas this was in 2015. About 200 odd miles each way each week. Well she got down to LR and car died on her a couple of miles from her room. Had it towed to the school parking, and I went down to diagnose. Thought it was fuel pump, but as that dang thing was hidden behind driver's seat and required lots of part removal, I called dealer who towed and found it was timing belt damaged and needed to be replaced. I've done that twice on my old one and once about 60k miles earlier on hers. Pretty good job as radiator comes out along with everything up front. They did it, and gave her a loaner for a week. Picked it up and she drove it home. Next morning we found a cup of oil under it and it had been leaking since the repair. She drove it back and they fixed it the second time..... shade tree mechanics at the dealer.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Brassmonkey]

Friend paid 400 and some odd dollars to have his valve cover gasket, spark plugs and coils replaced. When he picked it up it was misfiring, and they said just shrugged their shoulders. He drove it home on five cylinders, pulled the first coil out, and the coil boot was shoved between the spark plug & the cylinder wall. Fast sloppy work everywhere, anything else takes too long.