Sholder seperation

[DanM]

I had a show stopping problem yesterday. Extracted a case from the Krag, and the entire neck was left behind, stuck in the chamber. I need advice on getting it out. This case was from a small batch that I traded for. They are marked R-P, billed as once fired and looked right. This is the first R-P rifle brass I have used. Have heard bad things about R-P brass, but the price was right, so I tried it. I FL sized them, and made up a moderate load. Tried them yesterday, and one let loose. It was shot number 19 out of the 20 that I had on hand. Previous shots extracted easily with fingertip effort only. There was no kaboom or anything like that. I was inspecting each fired case, and this one just came out a little short.
So, I am thinking that first I will drive a slug down the bore and see if it will push the neck bit out, and if that fails, I may do a chamber cast, and hope that it pulls the neck bit along with it when I knock the slug out of the chamber. Does that sound like a good plan, or is there a better way to clear this chamber?

[bradh]

Dan try shoving a 45 cal brass brush into the chamber rotating as you go; when
you get ahold of the neck piece slowly pull it out....has worked for me.

[garandsrus]

Dan,

If you can get to it, just run a brass brush for cleaning the bore through it and it should grab the piece of brass on it's way back through the bore and pull it out.

I have had one or two separations like you mentioned. I think that one was in a Garand and one in an AR-15.

RP brass is fine....

John

[TNsailorman]

If you have a can of Kroil, put a few drops of it between the case and the chamber walls and let it set for 15 to 20 minutes and then use the brass brush. It should pop right out. I had a case extractor years ago but I let someone have it and haven't seen it since. A case extractor is the fastest and easiest way to go. james

[Andrew Quigley]

A case extractor is a handy tool to have around. Had to borrow one when a case seperated in my SKS.

[jonk]

I've had it happen once myself. Fortunately it just fell out. Rare, but it happens. I second using a .45 brush. Failing that a case extractor.

[DanM]

OK.... May be easier than I thought to fix. Will try the brush tonight. I guess I will trash those cases. Thanks

[BruceB]

Dan, sir;

I don't know what the exact problem is with your cases, but I have used, and continue to use, Remington brass in many calibers....including .30 Krag.

The stuff has worked well for me, and I find it's just as good as the Winchester brass I also use. What brand I buy generally comes down to what the supplier has in stock.

As already mentioned, an oversize bore brush pushed into the broken case from the rear of the chamber should remove the broken portion when pushed-out with a cleaning rod from the muzzle.

[felix]

BruceB, it sounds like the cases he used are far to brittle. Annealing would be in order. ... felix

[Dale53]

Generally shoulder separations are caused by first shooting in a gun with excess head space. Then, when the case shoulder is sized back and blown forward it thins the case in that area.

The idea with previously fired brass is to only size it enough to seat well in YOUR rifle. I actually prefer to feel a little bit of shoulder touching the chamber. You don't want to over do this, but just a touch of pressure as you close the bolt will insure that you have NOT oversized the brass (moving the shoulder back further than absolutely necessary.

This is very common with belted cases. There may be nothing at all wrong with your brass itself, just may have moved the shoulder back and forth too much.

Older rifles, like the Krag, didn't have consistent headspace from rifle to rifle. They did the best they could but tolerances were wider "in the day".

Automatically having your full length die firmly against the shell holder is not a good idea. Die companies routinely give this advice so that the cases are sized to SAAMI standards but all of our rifles do not necessarliy meet SAAMI standards (the rifles were made BEFORE SAAMI sometimes). Setting up your dies so that the brass just fits YOUR rifle is one of the advantages of handloading. You can tailor the brass to fit YOUR rifle.

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

[3006guns]

I had a similar experience with a Mauser and suplus ammo. It stopped the day's shooting immediately and the brush simply didn't work. I went home and used a regular threading tap carefully (and I mean carefully) screwed into the reluctant half, then whacking it out with a cleaning rod. It was a desperate move with no damage to the chamber, but I wouldn't recommend it as a good removal technique.

[Ricochet]

I suppose one could do a chamber cast and knock it out as well.

[DanM]

Alrighty then maybe I can keep the brass if I just neck size from now on. Probably wouldn't hurt to anneal too.

[Bret4207]

I'd anneal and neck size as the others suggested. FWIW- I once had several boxes of brand new CIL-Dominion 250 Savage ammo that was probably 40-50 years old when I got it in the early 80's. Out of 100 or so shots I had probably 30 separations. Most were just behind the shoulder, right where the powder line was. All I could figure is the boxes were all stored on edge in the bran I got them from since the day they were bought. It appeared that some reaction had taken place right where the powder/air line was. Even the cases that didn't separate had an etching at that juncture. I had a similar experience with some old Western cases but I'm sure they were reloads and annealing saved most of them.

[DanM]

Time was short last night. Tried the bore brush technique with no joy. Used a new stainless brush, very stiff one, but it pulled out and left the brass bit behind. Left it soaking with penetrating oil and will try again tonight. If that doesn't work, will try a chamber cast this weekend. That should work....

[DanM]

I made an extra deep chamber cast, that included about 3" of the bore, and the brass bit pushed out without too much trouble. Required a pretty good whack to pop it loose, but there it was, stuck in the slug. Gave me a good picture of the throat which is about .2" of smoothness measuring .310" that tapers into a
.308" bore. Glad to have the Krag back operational. Having a 'broken' rifle is worrysome to me. :-D

[Bret4207]

Good on you. Glad it worked out.

[Ricochet]

Yeah, glad that worked, and having a good idea what that throat looks like is helpful!

[rayg]

What did you use for the cast? Ray

[DanM]

Used cerrosafe.