Professional mold cleaning and tuning ?

[Wolfdog91]

So I got a bunch of use iorn molds that had just been giving me fits for multiple reasons. Was curious if there was anyone out there who happens do professional mold cleaning and tuning ? Stuff like pin aliment refacing the blocks of need be ect. Seems like something a machinist might do on the side . So say I find a old mold I could just send it off to them and have them completely refurbish it.
Thanks

[MT Gianni]

I think it would be extremely rare to need to reface blocks. Pin alignment is like pulling the back off a watch. The more you do it the easier it becomes. When you consider all that a resizing die does you might be over thinking mold tuning. The key is getting the lead off the block faces and top and bottom of the sprue plate. Removing block movement and wiggle or interference fit is just trial and error. I have used lead away cloth but find that most lead is removed with a pencil point.

[Wayne Smith]

Buckshot used to do that. Rick (Buckshot) was a retired railroad machinist and something of a gunsmith, although I'm not sure he had training in that occupation. Don't know anyone who does now - it is an open need.

[ascast]

I could do that, having done dozens of my own. I'm not sure I want to, especially this time of year. I'm sure we could talk you through it here. Mt Gianni is correct. It is not hard, just tedious and gets easier over time.

And by the way, what kind of hourly rate would make sense here? An hour or two on a fifty dollar mold?

[bedbugbilly]

The thing I would question would be that if there was someone who did this, is it feasible given the hourly rate to do to? A machinist, given their investment in their machine tools and overhead and the hourly rate, if the mold/molds would be worth the investment to have the work performed, or put what it would cost into a new mold such as NOE, Accurate, etc.? Unless you could find a "hobby machinist" capable of the work who liked challenges and who was looking to just have something to do to keep busy?

[dverna]

Really valid points about the cost/benefit ratio.

I would try to repair a mold myself and if it did not work out buy a new mold.

[GregLaROCHE]

I think it would be best to try and work on it yourself. If you are going to have to pay for it, there’s a good chance it would cost more than it’s worth. However, if you used it as blank to have a larger diameter boolit cut for it, that could be interesting, if that’s the part needing to be cleaned up.

[country gent]

Resurface the tops would be okay . But resurfacing the actual faces even just .002-.003 thousands ( whats taken from one has to be taken from the other to keep cavity centered) would result in a bullet out of round by .006. Lapping would then be required.

In all honesty doing it yourself is a personal choice, but the time involved trouble shooting fixing the issues shipping 2 ways I just dont see as profitable

[Hannibal]

Really valid points about the cost/benefit ratio.

I would try to repair a mold myself and if it did not work out buy a new mold.

Agreed. Reloading as a whole is a hobby geared more towards those with mechanical aptitude who like to tinker with things IMO.

If a mould has problems then it's already not worth much as-is. So if a person damages it trying to fix it nothing has been lost. That's how I see it anyway.

[country gent]

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a meal, Teach him to fish and you feed him forever. I prefer to walk a person thru doing it themselves giving them the skills to do it when ever they need too.

[Wilderness]

So I got a bunch of use iorn molds that had just been giving me fits for multiple reasons. Was curious if there was anyone out there who happens do professional mold cleaning and tuning ? Stuff like pin aliment refacing the blocks of need be ect. Seems like something a machinist might do on the side . So say I find a old mold I could just send it off to them and have them completely refurbish it.
Thanks

Wolf - I have run into two issues with old Lyman iron moulds:

First issue is blocks don't line up and can be rotated against each other while they are pressed together, producing bullets out of round. This is from wear on the ends of the pins or burring of the outer part of the holes they go into. The remedy is to clean up the burrs and make the pins protrude a little more, but not so much that they interfere with opening the mould. I have seen advice to the effect that the pins can be knocked in further with punch and hammer but I have found that at first the pins won't move, and then they move too far. And you need to be sure the blocks are on a surface, such as lead or timber, with suitable relief for the protruding pins, that will not mar the side away from the hammering. A better remedy is to put the blocks together, use a very short piece of rod a little less than pin diameter, or even a ball bearing, and squeeze in a suitably lined vyce to push the pins in a little further. Measure pin protrusion before you start and have a target such as .005" extra protrusion. If you overdo it, use the vyce again to push the pins back to where you want them.

Second issue is scoring across the tops of the blocks and around the sprue pivot screw. I think this might be what you mean when you ask about "refacing". The simple solution is to run the sprue plate just barely loose enough so its sits flat on the top of the blocks under its own weight - and this is more or less how I use my moulds anyway. Any tighter and the plate will start to lift on the corner opposite the screw (hold the mould edge-on to the light after adjusting the sprue plate screw to check). Even with a badly scored mould, in my case (dipper and pot) the pressure of the dipper tends to hold the plate down, though I may have issues with lumpy sprues if the plate lifts as I cut the sprues. The eventual fix is to remove (pull or drill out) the sprue plate stop pin, then set the mould up in a four jaw chuck in the lathe, get it running true and then take as much off the base as needed to clean it up.

Once you have the mould in the four jaw chuck, if you fancy a hollow point mould, adjust the setup so the cavity is running true (dial gauge indicator), and run the drill of the required diameter into and through the blocks.

Last bit is to make and fit another sprue plate stop pin, unless you've managed to salvage the old one.

I'm no machinist, so what I am telling you (except for the pins) is what friends have done for me. You too may have such a friend who can do the work for you once he knows what is required.

Be sure to let us know how you get on.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I second everyone else's opinion, that you should try fixing them yourself. Just take your time, and when removing metal, don't use power tools and remove as little metal as possible.
.
Several years ago, I bought a sgl cav iron mold reasonably cheap. The top had some bad marks/dings on it, near the cavity (not from the sprue plate). I'm not sure what the person was doing to put these marks in there? But when I got it, the sprue plate didn't move freely.
.
I attempted to remove the marks using a flat surface and fine emery cloth. Honestly, it's tough to remove dings in iron, and I didn't remove the dings, but I did get the top polished and now the sprue plate moved nicely. I didn't a test cast, and the marked/dinged mold now casts good boolits.

[farmbif]

ive got an old and well used and probably abused Lyman mold that the top of it could stand a couple passes on a surface grinder. find someone with the right machinery and see what they might be able to do.

[Outpost75]

I have used Erik Ohlen at www.hollowpointmold.com to repair, reface and adjust collectible H&G, Cramer, Springfield Armory and old Ideal and other vintage molds. He is able to make new sprue plates, alignment pins, screws, etc.

Figure $50 for an initial inspection, assessment and estimate. Complete repair and restoration is likely to run $150-250 depending upon machine time and parts needed to be made. Museum quality restoration.

Not cost effective for cheap and disposable mass market molds.

Worth every penny for collectible, rare and hard to get vintage stuff.

[dverna]

Wolf - I have run into two issues with old Lyman iron moulds:

First issue is blocks don't line up and can be rotated against each other while they are pressed together, producing bullets out of round. This is from wear on the ends of the pins or burring of the outer part of the holes they go into. The remedy is to clean up the burrs and make the pins protrude a little more, but not so much that they interfere with opening the mould. I have seen advice to the effect that the pins can be knocked in further with punch and hammer but I have found that at first the pins won't move, and then they move too far. And you need to be sure the blocks are on a surface, such as lead or timber, with suitable relief for the protruding pins, that will not mar the side away from the hammering. A better remedy is to put the blocks together, use a very short piece of rod a little less than pin diameter, or even a ball bearing, and squeeze in a suitably lined vyce to push the pins in a little further. Measure pin protrusion before you start and have a target such as .005" extra protrusion. If you overdo it, use the vyce again to push the pins back to where you want them.

Second issue is scoring across the tops of the blocks and around the sprue pivot screw. I think this might be what you mean when you ask about "refacing". The simple solution is to run the sprue plate just barely loose enough so its sits flat on the top of the blocks under its own weight - and this is more or less how I use my moulds anyway. Any tighter and the plate will start to lift on the corner opposite the screw (hold the mould edge-on to the light after adjusting the sprue plate screw to check). Even with a badly scored mould, in my case (dipper and pot) the pressure of the dipper tends to hold the plate down, though I may have issues with lumpy sprues if the plate lifts as I cut the sprues. The eventual fix is to remove (pull or drill out) the sprue plate stop pin, then set the mould up in a four jaw chuck in the lathe, get it running true and then take as much off the base as needed to clean it up.

Once you have the mould in the four jaw chuck, if you fancy a hollow point mould, adjust the setup so the cavity is running true (dial gauge indicator), and run the drill of the required diameter into and through the blocks.

Last bit is to make and fit another sprue plate stop pin, unless you've managed to salvage the old one.

I'm no machinist, so what I am telling you (except for the pins) is what friends have done for me. You too may have such a friend who can do the work for you once he knows what is required.

Be sure to let us know how you get on.

Good information for the DIY'er.

[ascast]

Wolfdog91 I checked out the link posted by Outpost75. It's about $50 for the first repair procedure. I am not doubting this guys work, merely pointing out that it gets pricey fast. Especially for a run of the mill old mold.
Perhaps you could pick one mold, state issue and we could walk you through it.
Most grinding issues are best done by hand, but a moto dremel tool will be much faster. A drill press or access is helpful. A piece of thick glass about 8x11 ", various sandpapers, crocus cloth, pencils with erasers, rust buster. pin pinch or punches. One must have a hollow end to drive out round point pins. Another flat is also needed.
As for tops, my buddy machinist, gunsmith, of 60 years said it is better to resurfaces top on the lathe not surface grinder. He claimed he had never found a mold that had truly parallel top and bottom, so set up is difficult. But he could do it in the lathe in no time.
As for sprue cutter stops, I just drill the old out and re-tap with a 10-32 hex head IIRC

[toallmy]

Restoring a mold is a labor of love , just go to mold maintenance & design section .

[MT Gianni]

The first step is to get a can of Kroil spray oil and a can of Kroil with a dropper. Pins move when they are freed up and lubed.

[john.k]

Just driving the alignment pins further in cures any misalignment ,certainly did with my iron molds ..........i suppose a mold thats been used commercially might be needing the holes reamed oversize to clean up ,and new pins made.

[tward]

Wolfdog91, it really is super easy, just a little common sense, which ,from your posts, I know you possess and very basic tools. I bought a piece of marble tile from Home Depot (12x12 or 16x16) and some fine grit wet and dry sandpaper . Just wet the tile and stick the paper to it. By using different grits you can remove material or hone , grit from 180 to 2000 or readily avaible from auto refinishers. Pull the top pin out with padded pliers ( heat just the block if necessary) unscrew the ' sprue cutter and you can resurface the mold top and the sprue cutter bottom. You can clean up the boolit cavity by casting some boolits , putting a screw in their bottom then covering the boolit with abrasive ( toothpaste works well) and turning the boolit by hand or with a low speed drill. This works very fast on aluminum molds so be careful or you will enlarge the cavity or you can do that if that’s the desired effect . Thanks, my 2 cents Tim

[Hannibal]

I could do that, having done dozens of my own. I'm not sure I want to, especially this time of year. I'm sure we could talk you through it here. Mt Gianni is correct. It is not hard, just tedious and gets easier over time.

And by the way, what kind of hourly rate would make sense here? An hour or two on a fifty dollar mold?

That's the problem. Too much time invested for the value of the item.

I'd suggest that that Wolfdog tackle it himself. If the moulds won't cast correctly they're next to worthless so it's not like they'll be worth less. If it's not worth his time to do it himself then that should explain everything.

This is a hands-on hobby. You're gonna spill some milk and break a few eggs unless you shoot with your keyboard.

[Bazoo]

I've had Eric Ohlen redrill the alignment pin holes and surface grind the top of a mould that had an imperfection at the base of the bullet. His work is excellent. But, I wouldn't pay $50 or more for any old mold that came my way.

If the mould only needs alignment pins tuned, it's really quite easy after you do the first one, and I'm sure you can handle it.

If the mould has some rust in the cavities, or won't release because of a minor burr, the method I use is to scrub the cavities with a bronze toothbrush. I scrub across the cavity so the bristles move 90º to the cavity edge, as well as with the cavity. This is also good for cleaning vent lines.

You can take it a step farther, and use a bronze bore brush turned in a drill, provided you have a brass core brush or are extremely careful not to let a regular steel core touch the blocks. Doing this method, it's best to clamp the block down, use a leather glove in your off hand to hold the tip of the brush as it spins for control, do half of the cavity (mould half) then reverse the spin of the brush and do the other half. It should spin so that the bristles move away from the edge and not down over it. That keeps it from rounding the edges. It may or may not make the parting line larger depending on how heavy handed you are.

[JSnover]

Describe the specific problem and post some pictures.