NSSD - Non-Surgical Spinal Decompression

[dverna]

Has anyone had this done?

I am trying to avoid neck surgery and looking at this as an option. My insurance will not cover treatment and the pamphlet I got showed the cost will be $3500-$8500 and take about 12 weeks. Payment is required "up front".

I had my first appointment today and will get a firm price in the second visit after they review the x-rays taken today.

My little 'red flag' is quivering for two reasons. First, I supplied an MRI disc from last fall and would think that would be better than the 8 or so x-rays taken today. Having to pay "up front" is the second reason for concern.

They quote an 80% success rate and if it works, I will gladly make the investment. I rarely sleep more than 2-3 hours at a stretch due to pain and that is getting old.

I have had two injections that lasted less than 3 days each. My other option is surgery, and I have the best surgeon in the state lined up; but want to avoid surgery if possible. With surgery, I will not be able to lift more than 10 lbs for three months and that is a deal killer for the rural lifestyle I live.

[Handloader109]

My wife is suffering from sciatica on her right side. Super bad pain. Until she was able to get an MRI done, no one would do more than physical therapy on her. Two different chiropractors and the pain doctor she was sent to. It took us 4 months to get the insurance to pay for the MRI. She then had injection into the joint, 2 months with way less pain.
8 x rays? Sounds like quackery to me. You can't see anything but bone with x-rays

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[C.F.Plinker]

I googled it and this was an early response.

https://www.webmd.com/back-pain/guide/spinal-decompression-therapy-surgical-nonsurgical#:~:text=Nonsurgical%20spinal%20decompr ession%20is%20a%20type%20of%20motorized,changes%20 the%20force%20and%20position%20of%20the%20spine.

You know what your surgeons diagnosis is. Does it look like this treatment would help your neck problems? Will it do any harm or otherwise make it more difficult for you surgeon to do his thing? Or, if successful, will this just postpone the surgery. Are the folks doing this M.D.s , D.O.s, chiropractors etc.

My father told me that everything is successful from the doctors point of view. If it is not successful from the patients point of view it is the patients fault because he did not respond like he was supposed to. I have had two laminotomies that were a success form the doctors point of view but although I am somewhat better, the outcome was much less than I was hoping for . And my primary care said that any further surgery would not be beneficial. My surgeon did not make any promises before the operations.

Good Luck and Best Wishes for a successful outcome whichever way you decide to go.

[BLAHUT]

My problem was not in the neck, L5, tumor on spinal cord, removed 1/2 of L5 and 1/4 of each vertebra above and below, I did not want surgery, had no choice, spent all of December 2006 and half of January 2007 in ICU. Had to learn to walk again, sever nerve damage from the tumor, went from a wheal chair to crutches to a walker to a Cain.
The only thing now that helps, is an inversion bed, hang on it for a while and life is better. The inversion bed may help to relieve the pain ? May want to give it a try ? If you do go for the surgery there is a item that some use to replace the disk, it looks like two bottle caps put flat side to flat side with a slot for the spinal cord, the crimp grows into the bone, from what I could find, out the only drawback is you end up a 1/4" taller with each replacement. When I messed up my neck I used the inversion bed, just added a Harnish with some weight added, to help with the decompression.. The inversion bed worked for me, still using it, will, till it doesn't help anymore...

[Hogtamer]

Don, this doesn’t sound like MEDICAL professionals to me. I think your red flags quiver for a good reason. An MRI is much greater detail than an Xray. Sound like a chiroquacker to me.

[dverna]

Hal, you are correct. It is a chiropractor. The third one I have seen this year. The first two were honest enough to tell me they could not do much more after a few months They helped a bit but not enough.

In 2014, I had to withdraw from the Ohio State Championships during the first event. I could not lift my gun after the first 50 rounds. It was a 1200 round event. I have not shot trap competitively since. After a year, things got better but in the last 18 months, I am back to living with constant pain.

I have decided I will not pay $3500+ up front. I do not mind spending a few hundred dollars to see if this procedure shows promise and pay as I go. If the doctor will not agree to that, I will walk out and deal with the pain until it gets so bad I do the surgery.

[MrWolf]

My problem was not in the neck, L5, tumor on spinal cord, removed 1/2 of L5 and 1/4 of each vertebra above and below, I did not want surgery, had no choice, spent all of December 2006 and half of January 2007 in ICU. Had to learn to walk again, sever nerve damage from the tumor, went from a wheal chair to crutches to a walker to a Cain.
The only thing now that helps, is an inversion bed, hang on it for a while and life is better. The inversion bed may help to relieve the pain ? May want to give it a try ? If you do go for the surgery there is a item that some use to replace the disk, it looks like two bottle caps put flat side to flat side with a slot for the spinal cord, the crimp grows into the bone, from what I could find, out the only drawback is you end up a 1/4" taller with each replacement.

Don,
I have multiple herniations in my cervical, thoracic, and my lumbar regions. You could not pay me to go back to a chiropractor again. Trust your instincts. I have a Teeter inversion table and they do help. Even my neuro doc that did my L4-5 said they were OK. I would try that first, though with the neck I would not expect the same amount of downward pull that you would get in the lower back. Maybe find a store selling them and try one? Good luck.
Ron

[NSB]

Chiropractors are not qualified to do what a surgeon can do. They are limited on what diagnostic procedures they can order, and they can’t do anything invasive. I’d strongly suggest you invest your money in seeing the very best spinal doctor you can find. I broke my neck in 1967 and it wasn’t diagnosed until the 1980’s when I had a nuclear bone scan. In 1967 they were’t even dreaming of that technology. Back then x-rays were the best they could do. Chiropractors do soft tissue manipulation, and some of them “stretch” your spine to take pressure off nerves. None of this is a permanent solution. Some of them prey upon your pain and desperation by offering “cures” that promise relief. Not much different than any other type of grift. See another doctor at a bigger hospital or teaching university and get another opinion. Sorry to hear about your problem and I hope you find some relief. Good luck.

[contender1]

I am not a doctor.
I do not have any kind of degree or anything showing any "expertise" in my thoughts or such.

But, I can say this;
My back due to age, work & all, would often hurt for a few days after a hard days work. I would try getting my wife to rub it out,, or try & get my back to "pop" and help relieve my pain.
Now,, my pain wasn't as severe as many. Nor can I point to any accident or whatever that caused a daily back pain.

Then, about 2 years ago,, while I was at my son's inlaws house,, loading metal roofing, we got to discussing back issues. Apparently my son's FIL was going to be having back surgery to repair some stuff. The comment was about an Inversion Table/chair. He said he had one,, and couldn't use it.
I said I had always considered one,, but hadn't gotten one yet.
He offered me his.
A "Teeter Hang-Up."
Well, I started slow & careful,, with just 2 minutes at a time. 1-3 times a day. Every day. In the first few weeks,, my back would "pop" and I got immediate relief. I slowly increased my daily hang time until I am now doing 12 minutes (the max recommended is 15 at a single inversion) every morning,, and occasionally a second hang-up if my back is sore from a job.
Only when I've worked hard does my back now "pop" when I hang upside down. In fact,, it's more of a "maintenance" routine to keep my back de-compressed,,, and keep me from hurting as much.
Most of my pains have pretty much stopped. And I feel much better. At night,, when I go to bed,, I can lay on my stomach,,, and if I just stretch & flex,, often, one spot will "pop" and feel good. No chair or whatever required.

In short,, my daily & regular use of the inversion table/chair has seriously helped my back. Nowhere near the pains I used to have. And if I feel tight or in need of "adjustments,," I get on it,,and sometimes it'll pop,, or just cause me to feel better.

Tips if you get one;
Get a good one. Don't cheap out. BUT you can find really good deals on the used side.
Accept the fact it'll feel weird the first few times you invert. But you can & will soon learn to relax & understand it.
Start with shorter times & let your body tell you when to increase the amount of time you spend inverted.
I never get on it with a full stomach,, or if I feel any kind of need to go to the bathroom. I go to the bathroom prior to getting on it.
Do it every day.
BE SURE YOU LEARN TO TOTALLY RELAX AS MUCH AS YOU CAN. THAT HELPS A LOT! Being tense,,, or stressed won't allow the body to decompress, and help.
Once you start to re-invert, make sure you relax in a comfortable position parallel, to allow the blood flow to return to normal.

This post is just my personal experiences. I just wish I'd gotten my chair 10-15 years earlier.

[akajun]

you can do the same thing with a pair of gravity boots or a good inversion table. Good repudiable chiropractor with traction table will simply allow you to pay by the visit and see if it helps. It should also be supplemented with manipulation and adjustment. If you can find a physical therapist with traction equipment id recommend that, they will show you exercises to help keep you loose

I was having neck issues years ago, diagnosed with arthritis and old injuries from sports. Ortho doc said I will eventually have to have fusion surgery but could probably put it off a few years with chiropractic and PT treatments which he recomended. Was having frozen shoulder, severe shoulder pain, numbness. Did the chiropractor thing on the first go round, he got me loose but it happened again about a year later. Went to a PT who began dry needling, and sent me to another chiropractor with traction equipment which really helped. I think the biggest thing was the PT showing me specific stretches, exercises, and muscle roll out routines to preform daily, she also prescribed me a small home traction device to use when it flares up. Im in the gym every day to the exercises and stretching are part of my warmup now. after whatever treatment you do, the exercises and stretching are a musr.


its been 6 years now and the pain is gone. It really hasn't even flared up in a few years. IDK if id say im cured but im not getting cut on.

[MaryB]

I had neck fusion a few years ago... 2 days in the hospital then weight restriction for 6 weeks then back to normal. No more shooting pains in the arms, no more dropping stuff because of hand spasms... some loss of mobility, I have to turn my upper body to look over my shoulder when driving.

[akajun]

I had neck fusion a few years ago... 2 days in the hospital then weight restriction for 6 weeks then back to normal. No more shooting pains in the arms, no more dropping stuff because of hand spasms... some loss of mobility, I have to turn my upper body to look over my shoulder when driving.
yeah one of my highpower buddies had it done, he was just short of 6 points to leg out for his DR badge. After it took him a couple years to be able to shoot prone again and leg out. Encouraged me to do the non surgery route

[farmerjim]

I had the exact as MaryB, only 20 years ago. I had to do no heavy lifting and wear a cervical collar for 6 weeks. After the 6 weeks no restrictions at all.I left the doctors office went home and got on my tractor with my head being thrown side to side when hitting ruts.
Check with a different doctor If he doesn't think 6 weeks is good enough.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hal, you are correct. It is a chiropractor. The third one I have seen this year. The first two were honest enough to tell me they could not do much more after a few months They helped a bit but not enough.

>>>SNIP
Do any of the Chiro's that you've seen, practice the Gonstead technique. Only 3% of Chiro's are trained and practice this technique. My experience with one of these Chiro's has been miraculous, to say the least. I think I posted about it, when my back went out last Oct/Nov. Anyway, since you are not adverse to seeing another Chiro, see if you can locate one that was trained in the Gonstead technique.

https://www.gonstead.com/overviews-of-gonstead-technique/

[porthos]

from a fellow trapshooter. invest $200-$300 in a inversion table. might help without a big cost.

[Winger Ed.]

I wish ya the best.

Several years ago, I smashed/bulged a disc at the bottom of my back.
It hurt so bad I thought I was going to die.

I got a MRI, and when they read the tea leaves, my old doctor told me what was wrong, and how to deal with it.
He said 'some people get better in a few weeks, some get better in a few months. Some get better after the surgery'.

I told him, "No Doc, you don't understand..... Forget that surgery nonsense.
This is America..... We have a pill for everything, you just need to find the right one".

Well, I didn't get any pills, but taking it easy with long walking distances, and being real care not to carry heavy weights,
some days are better than others, but it's manageable.

I ain't much on those Chiropractors that want to hop around on you like a monkey or something.
I'm afraid I'd come out saying, "Well,,,,, my back is better, but I can't feel my legs".

[dverna]

Guys (and Mary B...LOL),

Sincerely appreciate your advice and sharing your experiences.

I have the best surgeon in Michigan lined up, but will try every other option first before taking that route. At times, it is easy to say, "screw it", and schedule the surgery, but there is no assurance that will do the trick. And I have heard enough horror stories about surgeries.

One of the guys at deer camp had one of his neck vertebrae done 20 years ago and tells me to go for it. It worked for him so he thinks it will work for everyone. But even the "experts" cannot seem to predict the results.

[MrWolf]

Don,

My surgeon was honest and told me I had a 50/50 shot with my surgery. Told him I would chance it, as for me, I couldn't walk any distance at alll without pain. If a doc says guaranteed, run away fast. My neck and the rest of my back are beyond repair no matter how much I beg him. On a side note, the gravity boots are not worth the hassle and discomfort vs the inversion table.
Ron

[dverna]

Thanks Ron

[Winger Ed.]

This reminds me of a life long friend that recently had a mild stroke.

He's doing all the re-hab & all like they tell him.

I told him if all that new age medical business stuff doesn't work, I know of some more traditional remedies.
He perked right up...

I told him if there was no progress for him soon,
we could sing some chants, hang a few leeches on him, dance around a fire, and sacrifice a goat.

No big promises, but ya might want to keep your options open.

[Battis]

Be careful with the inversion table/bed. I used one for 15 years, and it helped, then, one day, the pressure of being inverted messed up my Achilles tendon. It had had enough of the stretching pressure. But, I swore by that inversion bed for many years. The pain relief was great until I came back upright.
I've also heard that being inverted can cause glaucoma, though I never had problems.
I know three people who have had neck surgery, and they're all much better.

[kevin c]

“80% success rate” does not mean what a patient hopes it means; that 8 out of 10 patients are cured, or that the symptoms are reduced by 80%. Any reduction of symptoms can be called a success, so the truth could be only that 8 out of 10 had some kind improvement, and that’s assuming the statement is honest in the first place.

Retired doc who detested hyping anything.

[MaryB]

I had the exact as MaryB, only 20 years ago. I had to do no heavy lifting and wear a cervical collar for 6 weeks. After the 6 weeks no restrictions at all.I left the doctors office went home and got on my tractor with my head being thrown side to side when hitting ruts.
Check with a different doctor If he doesn't think 6 weeks is good enough.

My doc doesn't use a collar, says it weakens the neck muscles making recovery longer.

[MaryB]

Guys (and Mary B...LOL),

Sincerely appreciate your advice and sharing your experiences.

I have the best surgeon in Michigan lined up, but will try every other option first before taking that route. At times, it is easy to say, "screw it", and schedule the surgery, but there is no assurance that will do the trick. And I have heard enough horror stories about surgeries.

One of the guys at deer camp had one of his neck vertebrae done 20 years ago and tells me to go for it. It worked for him so he thinks it will work for everyone. But even the "experts" cannot seem to predict the results.

How they did it 20 years ago compared to now are night and day different! Old days they went in from the back of the neck disturbing lots of muscle... now it is a 1" incision in the front of the neck(doc went where I had a natural skin crease, barely shows!). Back then they used cadaver bone, now it is a plastic cage filled with a bone growth hormone then the plate to hold it stable until bone fills in 10x faster than the old way. I had very little neck pain after I woke up, less than pre surgery! Doc was going to do a single level then got in and saw what had happened to the discs in the car accident, 2 were ruptured way out to one side compressing nerves so it was a 2 level fusion.