Front Driving Band?

[Bazoo]

On a bullet like this Ranch Dog, is the forward section between the crimp groove and the start of the ogive considered the "front driving band"?

Or is the front driving band only called that on a bullet like a Keith bullet that has a distinct front band?

https://i.postimg.cc/T11Dyj1v/lee-ranch-dog-ctl-432-265-rf-088.jpg (https://postimg.cc/T58wFDnt)

https://i.postimg.cc/pVkKV4m5/rcbs-44-250-k-100.jpg (https://postimg.cc/5jYXnPqf)

[Mk42gunner]

I consider the first band that gets engraved by the rifling to be the front driving band.

Obviously on some designs it is smaller than others.

Robert

[stubshaft]

I agree that the first portion that is engraved is the "driving" band. I shoot a lot of Verals LFN and WFN designs and they have a large driving band.

[Larry Gibson]

On a bullet like this Ranch Dog, is the forward section between the crimp groove and the start of the ogive considered the "front driving band"?

Or is the front driving band only called that on a bullet like a Keith bullet that has a distinct front band?

https://i.postimg.cc/T11Dyj1v/lee-ranch-dog-ctl-432-265-rf-088.jpg (https://postimg.cc/T58wFDnt)

https://i.postimg.cc/pVkKV4m5/rcbs-44-250-k-100.jpg (https://postimg.cc/5jYXnPqf)

I consider it to be the front drive band on such bullets.

[Char-Gar]

It is important to consider the firearm for which the bullet was designed. The Ranch Dog bullets are designed for Marlin leverguns which are famous for very little if any throat in front of the chamber. The Keith bullets are designed for revolvers which have long throats in the charge holes.

[derek45]

it's the band forward of the crimp groove, in your second photo

[dtknowles]

The term "front driving band" is meaningless in a bullet and application where it performs no particular function. Your first picture the "band" in front of the first lube groove seems to not be prominent nor have any features to make it significant. That first bullet, I don't know the application, but I might not fill all the grooves with lube, and I might not crimp in the first groove. It will depend on the throat of the firearm I use it in.
Tim

[Bazoo]

The purpose is, I want to make sure I have the correct terminology for all the bullet parts for my bullet cataloging webapp.

Thanks for all the responces.

[indian joe]

The term "front driving band" is meaningless in a bullet and application where it performs no particular function. Your first picture the "band" in front of the first lube groove seems to not be prominent nor have any features to make it significant. That first bullet, I don't know the application, but I might not fill all the grooves with lube, and I might not crimp in the first groove. It will depend on the throat of the firearm I use it in.
Tim

The first boolit, the band ahead of the crimp groove has contacted the size die, so it is gonna engrave the rifling, so it "serves a purpose" surely?

[dtknowles]

The first boolit, the band ahead of the crimp groove has contacted the size die, so it is gonna engrave the rifling, so it "serves a purpose" surely?

The ogive will contact the rifling before the band because the nose extends to full diameter. If you loaded that bullet to jam, I am sure there would be contact marks on the bullet forward of the "not a band, band."
Tim

[44MAG#1]

Look at the photo. There is a sized "BAND" In front of the crimp groove. It is a circular sized area, surface, portion in of the crimp groove therefore a band of sized area.
I think it is simple.
Am I wrong?
BTW, it could be called a sized portion of the nose of the bullet, or just the nose of the bullet, or the portion in front of the crimp groove.
But the sized portion caused a band or circular area in front of the crimp groove.
So to me it is a band of sized area in front of the crimp groove.
Am I wrong????

[murf205]

It is important to consider the firearm for which the bullet was designed. The Ranch Dog bullets are designed for Marlin leverguns which are famous for very little if any throat in front of the chamber. The Keith bullets are designed for revolvers which have long throats in the charge holes.

So based on this, this NOE boolit is a better choice for the Marlin that a "bore rider"?315013[ATTACH

[indian joe]

So based on this, this NOE boolit is a better choice for the Marlin that a "bore rider"?315013[ATTACH

apart from anything else the ranch dog shown is a nice looking boolit, the Keith is butt ugly - enough reason for me to make a choice so long as the choice shot ok. (which I bet it would most times)

[44MAG#1]

So based on this, this NOE boolit is a better choice for the Marlin that a "bore rider"?315013[ATTACH

Have we taken in the OAL. Confinements as set forth by the Marlin design?
Or have we not?
When I had Marlins I shot 550 grain in them.

[mehavey]

FWIW: I've always heard/used the term "Driving Band" associated with the Rear band -- that experiences the driving pressure
and the Front band (if any/as in Keith SWC) as the "Cleaning Band" -- hold-over from BP cartridge shooting

[44MAG#1]

FWIW: I've always heard/used the term "Driving Band" associated with the Rear band -- that experiences the driving pressure
and the Front band (if any/as in Keith SWC) as the "Cleaning Band" -- hold-over from BP cartridge shooting

I'm glad I just used the term "band".

[Larry Gibson]

Historically, as used in many writings, it is the front band that is the "drive" band.

[mehavey]

Looking at the nomenclature again -- especially as it plays against artillery /mortar/and cast-grooved projectiles, it would appear
that all the parallel shank bands are considered the "driving" bands which engage the rifling under pressure.

That I could understand. But calling the front band "the" driving band doesn't pass the makes-sense test.

Am I missing something here?

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, you are misconstruing me intended meaning of "the" incorrectly when it is used in "the front drive band". The "the" used only differentiates it as the drive band which is in front of the other drive bands. All of the bands are drive bands. "Drive" is only an adjective, not an adverb, in its use as referring to that band. The term "front" isn't giving that band some distinction to "drive" anything. "The" as used, is not an adverb. Some may give speculation on what the intended purpose of a specific front drive band design may be, but it is still "the front drive band" simply because it is front of the other drive bands because all those bands that fall behind it, including the base drive band are all drive bands).

[44MAG#1]

Could the front band be called a helper band?
Could the front band be called a steering band as it steers the following band, bands into the barrel?
Could the front band be called a band with no description other than a band?
Could the front band be called one band of two or more?
Could the front band be called the leading band followed by the following band or bands?
Could the front band be called a part of the bullet?
What are some more possibilities of the name of that raised circular area of that thing on a bullet
Let see some of them?

[bruce381]

I do not know for sure but always thought over 45 years casting the PREDOMENATE front band is the "driving band" in that it engraves first and starts rotation thus driving the rest My opinion so whatever. If bore rider it has NO front band. Think Keith popularized the full caliber band as a driving band.

[44MAG#1]

So, since it "drives" the bullet which is a synonym of "steering" and "steer" is a synonym of "drive" it could be called a steering band since it is up front steering the rest of the bullet???

[mehavey]

the [front] drive band [is the one] which is in front of the other drive bands.
All of the bands are drive bands. ed. emphasis added to quote

PAX.
perfect.
;)

[44MAG#1]

ed. emphasis added to quote

PAX.
perfect.
ed. emphasis added to quote

PAX.
perfect.


;)

So since steer and drive are synonyms of each other couldn't they be called steering bands?
So could the base/bottom band be call a drive/steering band that also keeps the gas behind the bullet so hence the gas checking band?

[mehavey]

Front, Rear
Front, Middle, Rear
Front, Middle, Middle, Middle, Middle...(middle), Rear -- for Lee tumblers :groner:

[44MAG#1]

Front, Rear
Front, Middle, Rear
Front, Middle, Middle, Middle, Middle...(middle), Rear -- for Lee tumblers :groner:

So Lee has many bands of driving or steering.
Should be super accurate.

[derek45]

This is fun

:happy dance:

[44MAG#1]

This is fun

:happy dance:

Where would we be without fun?
It would be a dull world.

[Larry Gibson]

:2 drunk buddies:

[Bazoo]

Thats a good one. I wonder what Elmer Keith would have thought about Lee TL bullets. He'd either loved them or hated them, depending on how they were presented to him. If you said, I have some bullets that don't quite measure up to your bullet, but they are okay... he'd probably loved them. If you said, I have some bullets that are superior to the keith bullet...he'd have hated them.

[44MAG#1]

Thats a good one. I wonder what Elmer Keith would have thought about Lee TL bullets. He'd either loved them or hated them, depending on how they were presented to him. If you said, I have some bullets that don't quite measure up to your bullet, but they are okay... he'd probably loved them. If you said, I have some bullets that are superior to the keith bullet...he'd have hated them.

We will never know.
Unless someone can go back in a time machine to find out.