Thanks to larry gibson and many others

[sloughfoot]

3.5 years on the 308 Winchester Cast journey. Goals were accuracy at higher velocities. And deer capable @200 yards. I’ve picked so many brains it’s shameful and thousands of hours at the bench and behind the rifle testing different powders and different techniques. Bullet seating depth, bullet shape and weights. WEIGHT SORTING. Powder coating, 3 different 308’s in 3 years. Ruger American for the win. Case neck turning, crimp pressure, full length sizing vs neck sizing, fillers, case neck expanders vs Lee universal expander, and many more things. From 6 different molds all M&P and Lee my best performance comes from the lee 170 RF with WCWW AND POWDER coated, best powder in order for me. 4198, RX7, 4227, and 3031. 314943314944314945314946

[charlie b]

Nicely done.

[lightload]

About full length resizing vs neck sizing only. Which, if either, gave better accuracy?

I agree that Larry Gibson knows whereof he speaks to use one of Elmer's expressions.

[Land Owner]

...thousands of hours at the bench...

The struggle (for others) continues as their cost grows exponentially. If you had not already had the components for such thorough investigating, it would be financially problematic in this time of low (no) supply and high demand, even making your own cast boolits.

Congratulations! You KNOW your rifle, your load, where the boolit WILL GO (if you do your part), and yourself. It is a satisfying thing when components come together. The end result is high confidence - so long as the game participates, without which it remains an exercise in PATIENCE and PERSISTENCE.

[ascast]

So, what distance was the group shot? And recipe?

[murf205]

sloughfoot, that is some mighty fine work you have done there, congrats. I know that there are a lot of thick woods in your area and that 308 with cast would be just about perfect in those pine thickets and if you got it shooting @ 200yds, they are in trouble in the clear cuts too.

[dverna]

Sir...I appreciate your honesty and commend you for your tenacity.

You have shared what I believe to be the reality of cast bullets in the modern HV CF rifle, and the reason I abandoned that quest. It is not easy, and it is not cheap...unless a person accepts less accuracy and ballistic performance.

The "thousands of hours" you invested might be an exaggeration, but you definitely know how many rifles and molds you purchased to achieve success. In the end, you have a cast bullet load that is inferior to dozens of jacketed bullets. Turning a .308 into a .30/30 does not make sense to me, and would not fit my needs anyway.

I have three .30 caliber molds that I will likely never use. The single cavity Lyman 311344 I bought 50 years ago (when I was poor) for my first .308. I gave up on it after "wasting" a month or two. Got some pulled SP's that shot much better. (I was so poor, I could not afford to waste "cheap" primers and powder back then.) Over the last decade I bought an MP 312-159 and NOE 311365 for SHTF which will likely/hopefully never be used.

I wanted good hunting bullets for my .30 cal bolt rifles and purchased 500 165 gr Sierra GameKings and 700 150 gr Hornady BT's. Total cost was less than $400. I will not live long enough to use them all. Load work up for two .308's and a 300 Win Mag took about 200 bullets. That left me with 1000 bullets. I fire less than 10 shots a year with whichever gun I decide to take afield. 1-3 three shot groups to check zero and one or two bullets to hunt with. The .30's are not used for plinking as I have cheaper options for getting trigger time.

I have two $64,000 questions. Knowing what you know now, would you do it again? If you answer "yes", what is your rationale?

[deces]

This makes me want to get out to the range. Well done.

[PopcornSutton]

The OP has done what it takes to get some degree of success accuracy wise. There are so many variables, small details that end up being very important, to make it all come together. And it's just not the cast bullet, case prep and neck sizing is often over looked. Testing different powders can make a huge difference. Some just plain won't work well in your rifle, and some will. Then there is a tuning part. You just can't pick a load out of a book and it shoot great. Powder charge, seating depth, neck tension, all will tell you what you gun wants.

Takes a lot of work.

[Hannibal]

Sometimes it's more about the journey than the destination. Not everyone is interested in such pursuits and those people will never understand.

My personal goal has been harvesting a buck whitetail with a rifle I built, black powder I made and a bullet I cast. My chosen caliber is 45-70. Again, not everyone understands and that's the way it should be.

Kudos to the OP.

[murf205]

"If you answer "yes", what is your rationale? " Sometimes it is about the gun. Sloughfoots 308 must be the platform he wanted to use for his cast endeavor. I sympathize completely because I use a 358 Norma and that is not the rifle most sane people would choose but it's on a Ruger 77 and I really like the gun and since it has a magnum bolt face...well you can see the reason. I'll be willing to bet that at the ranges we here in the deep south hunt it will kill better than a 308, especially if a standard jacketed bullet is used that tend to blow up at close range and I mean CLOSE. I almost lost the best buck I ever took because the 150 gr Core Loct blew up and didn't penetrate 2"but a 170 gr cast would have exited and left a blood trail Stevie Wonder could follow. These little projects keep us out of the bar as Mama Murf says!

[charlie b]

Sir...I appreciate your honesty and commend you for your tenacity....

I wanted good hunting bullets for my .30 cal bolt rifles and purchased 500 165 gr Sierra GameKings and 700 150 gr Hornady BT's. Total cost was less than $400. I will not live long enough to use them all. Load work up for two .308's and a 300 Win Mag took about 200 bullets. That left me with 1000 bullets. I fire less than 10 shots a year with whichever gun I decide to take afield. 1-3 three shot groups to check zero and one or two bullets to hunt with. The .30's are not used for plinking as I have cheaper options for getting trigger time.

I have two $64,000 questions. Knowing what you know now, would you do it again? If you answer "yes", what is your rationale?

So, why did you buy 1200 bullets instead of just buying some premium hunting cartridges? They would all be capable of MOA or close to it, which is good enough for any big game hunting. You would not have had to spend any time working on loads. Just zero and go hunting. Why handload if all you are going to do is shoot 10 or 20 rounds a year?

[KenH]

Another THANK YOU to Larry Gibson and many other folks on the forum for sharing their extensive knowledge with the rest of us mere mortals :)

[dverna]

So, why did you buy 1200 bullets instead of just buying some premium hunting cartridges? They would all be capable of MOA or close to it, which is good enough for any big game hunting. You would not have had to spend any time working on loads. Just zero and go hunting. Why handload if all you are going to do is shoot 10 or 20 rounds a year?

I am paranoid and like having a lot of stuff if the need arises. Ever seen me whine about powder/primer prices or availability; or worry about when "things will get back to normal"?

What I need to harvest deer will be infinitesimal to what I may need to defend what I have.

[huntinlever]

"If you answer "yes", what is your rationale? " Sometimes it is about the gun. Sloughfoots 308 must be the platform he wanted to use for his cast endeavor. I sympathize completely because I use a 358 Norma and that is not the rifle most sane people would choose but it's on a Ruger 77 and I really like the gun and since it has a magnum bolt face...well you can see the reason. I'll be willing to bet that at the ranges we here in the deep south hunt it will kill better than a 308, especially if a standard jacketed bullet is used that tend to blow up at close range and I mean CLOSE. I almost lost the best buck I ever took because the 150 gr Core Loct blew up and didn't penetrate 2"but a 170 gr cast would have exited and left a blood trail Stevie Wonder could follow. These little projects keep us out of the bar as Mama Murf says!

My go-to in the terrain I and my son hunt, thick northwoods, is my 45-70. But I would be lying if I said I'm not bringing out my newly acquired Ruger 77 .338 WM, loaded up with 225 Hornady Interlocks and H 4831SC, into those same woods at least some of the time. And my son's 30-30, mounted with a beautiful brass-and-blue Skinner, will also take a rest in favor of his newish Savage 30-06 on some of those days. On paper it doesn't make sense, but, well...neither does an over the hill dude tromping through deep snow for miles every day.:D

[Hannibal]

So, why did you buy 1200 bullets instead of just buying some premium hunting cartridges? They would all be capable of MOA or close to it, which is good enough for any big game hunting. You would not have had to spend any time working on loads. Just zero and go hunting. Why handload if all you are going to do is shoot 10 or 20 rounds a year?

Where is the fun in that?

I have loads I shoot at the range for accuracy. I have loads I shoot during hunting season. And I'm constantly experimenting with things just to satisfy my need to know, always with personal safety in mind.

I do things in my spare time because I enjoy them. If I didn't I'd find different hobbies.

If all I was concerned about was something to eat or to hang on the wall my approach would be completely different. But that's not all I'm after.

[murf205]

My go-to in the terrain I and my son hunt, thick northwoods, is my 45-70. But I would be lying if I said I'm not bringing out my newly acquired Ruger 77 .338 WM, loaded up with 225 Hornady Interlocks and H 4831SC, into those same woods at least some of the time. And my son's 30-30, mounted with a beautiful brass-and-blue Skinner, will also take a rest in favor of his newish Savage 30-06 on some of those days. On paper it doesn't make sense, but, well...neither does an over the hill dude tromping through deep snow for miles every day.:D

Paul, it this thing we do made sense, it wouldn't be nearly as much fun.

[dverna]

Where is the fun in that?

I have loads I shoot at the range for accuracy. I have loads I shoot during hunting season. And I'm constantly experimenting with things just to satisfy my need to know, always with personal safety in mind.

I do things in my spare time because I enjoy them. If I didn't I'd find different hobbies.

If all I was concerned about was something to eat or to hang on the wall my approach would be completely different. But that's not all I'm after.

Great response. It does not need to make sense.

But that is also why casting is dying as a hobby. And, if primers and powder stay at near current price levels, even fewer folks will make casting part of their hobby.

I am already at the point it does not make sense to cast and reload for 9mm practice ammunition.

[sloughfoot]

My reasoning. Mostly because there’s those that say it can’t be done and those that say it’s a waste of time and money. For me the success of proving them wrong and proving to myself that It can be done( I was a doubter myself) made the journey worth every bit and yes id do it again. But my journey has just begun. In the next few years I’ll be looking at 500 yard lethality and accuracy

[charlie b]

Great response. It does not need to make sense......

Perfect answer to your own question. Thank you. :)

[Three44s]

Kudos to the OP, you have a very fine load combo there!

Three44s

[dverna]

My reasoning. Mostly because there’s those that say it can’t be done and those that say it’s a waste of time and money. For me the success of proving them wrong and proving to myself that It can be done( I was a doubter myself) made the journey worth every bit and yes id do it again. But my journey has just begun. In the next few years I’ll be looking at 500 yard lethality and accuracy

There was a guy, Bama, IIRC, who posted his success with long range cast and I believe he was using the .308 and reaching out to 300/400 yards. My search skills are lacking, or I would post links for you. Worth finding if you go down that road. I don’t think he was making hunting loads. Bama has not posted in a couple of years. Gibson is another good resource but you know about his work.

[murf205]

sloughfoot, I am in your camp with the lethality part. Although I have never shot a game animal with a cast boolit in a rifle but I certainly have with a revolver and I can tell you that a 44 with a 250 gr Keith lets the air out of them pronto. Never lost one and you can give 'em one in the caboose if that's the only shot you get and it winds up in the boiler room and most times exits!

[sloughfoot]

sloughfoot, I am in your camp with the lethality part. Although I have never shot a game animal with a cast boolit in a rifle but I certainly have with a revolver and I can tell you that a 44 with a 250 gr Keith lets the air out of them pronto. Never lost one and you can give 'em one in the caboose if that's the only shot you get and it winds up in the boiler room and most times exits!

That 44 magnum is definitely a lethal weapon. It was my pride for 25 years

[405grain]

sloughfoot: I understand completely. It's the journey & the adventure. I cast bullets & hand load to push the envelope and to test myself. I shoot my ammo in rifles that I build, and try to shoot better with each development. It's a challenge and its fun. An added perk to shooting cast bullets is that the recoil is less than jacketed so doing lots of practice isn't fatiguing. For hunting, once the rifle is sighted in it's best to get up off the bench and practice shooting offhand. With cast loads this is more fun than with jacketed. I won't take shots at game unless it's under 200 yards so cast bullets work just fine.

[murf205]

"An added perk to shooting cast bullets is that the recoil is less than jacketed so doing lots of practice isn't fatiguing." And, you will not be at the mercy of the supply chain or bean counters at the big corporations when they decide they are not going to make your pet projectile any more. Indepenence, I love it.