The Ongoing Whisper Bullet Project

[HotGuns]

Most of yall have seen the 5 Cavity bullet mold that I made for .30 caliber bullets.

I am still looking for perfection and this will be a thread dedicated to just that. I molded up some bullets that weighed 275 grains and lubricated them with Moly Disulfide because they need to have something on them for lube since they didn't have any lube grooves. I did this to keep from gunking up the Form 1 suppressor that I use on the .300 Whisper Remington700 that I built.

I figured that the heavier bullets would hit harder, putting the energy level on par with that of a .44 magnum. This is from an extremely accurate rifle that is very quiet.

Sounded good in theory anyway.

Loading the bullets into a case however, wasn't as easy as it should have been. Due to the square base of the bullet, shoving them into a case resulted in shaving some lead, leaving a small ring of lead around the neck. Not good for any kind of consistency, and accuracy is all about that.

So, I thought, I have several dies with case belling adjustments, that slight bell the mouth of the case, I'll see if I can get something to work. Wrong. Nothing was even close. Since the .300 case is basically just a .223 chopped off at the neck and necked down to .30 caliber, nothing I had worked.

So, I had to make one. I used a case for the guide and pretty much copied some of the more popular patterns out there. The die centers the very base of the bullet and has an adjustable stem that enters into the case mouth to bell it every so slightly. Here is a picture of the die with a case in it. The bell pilot is sized to .307 to insure perfect alignment.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/Application001.jpg

This next picture shows the bell stem. It really doesn't take much to allow the lead bullets to slip right in without shaving lead. Having done a few dozen of them tonight, so far I am very happy with the results. Every loaded bullet looks great with no lead shaving that is evident.

Hopefully sometime soon, I be able to shoot these things through my suppressed rifle to see how they pan out. If they shoot as good as they look I'll be happy.

I haven't decided how to finish this die yet. I can either put a black oxide finish on it, or blue it using cold blue. Heres a picture of the whole assembly.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/Application002.jpg

[Triggerhappy]

I really appreciate you posting your adventure here. I am about to embark on a Whisper project on an AR platform. Any information you can provide would be extremely helpful. I want to get it built up and get a can for it before the law changes.

TH

[Triggerhappy]

Hotguns, would you be willing to sell a belling die like that above?

[HotGuns]

I couldn't do it for the time it took, I've probably got a bit over 4 hours in the thing.
Someone with a CNC lathe could knock em out pretty quick and make it worth their time though.

With my little dinky lathe set up, it would take too long.
Sorry.

BTW, I've got an AR in .300/.221 Fireball. Good shooter.

[Triggerhappy]

Do you suppress the AR? If so what can do you use on it? What are the barrel to can threads? I'm wondering if I could thread it the same as a .223 and use the same suppressor on both. I know it wouldn't do as well on the .223 not being subsonic and having extra clearance on the bore, but it would be interesting.

What kind of accuracy do you get out of the AR? What barrel length do you use? I was thinking 16 since I'm going to keep the FPS down and hate to get too long and unwieldy with the can.

I don't meant to hammer you with a bunch of questions. I've been wanting to do this for a long time and am hoping to actually get it done soon.

I understand about the die, thanks anyway.

TH

[HotGuns]

I use a Model One sales top half, its a 16" barrel. The threads are 1/2 -28 and yes I use the can for both. I built the can, its a Form One can.

Its pretty accurate, with a Leupold scope I can keep them in an inch at 100. Since I am using a 4x14 scope, thats about all I can do.

Its quiet. You need a 1 in 8 twist to use subsonic 220 grain bullets, otherwise they wont stabilize. Model One Sales has the cheapest top half.

[Triggerhappy]

I was thinking of starting with a Del-Ton to get started. I also have a 6.5 Grendel started so I'll go inexpensive for now. 1" at 100 would be fine for what I want it for. Primarily coyotes.
I'll have to check out the Model One.

Thanks!

[longbow]

Very nice work! I too have a small lathe and spend hours making things that automated equipment could make in minutes... but that equipment costs big bucks.

I took a much cruder approach to belling case mouths and use a slightly flared punch and hammer. Crude but effective and quite fast. One day I will make a nice one like yours.

I am really interested in your project and am waiting anxiously for range results. I was thinking of a similar project but lack of time and money has shelved it so I play with the toys I have.

Longbow

[theperfessor]

Very nice job on the dies! Nice being able to make what you need, isn't it...:-D

[johnly]

I just machined something similar today. I took a short cut and used the die body from a Lee 6.5x55 with the neck area removed. The expander plugs were machined from hardened 5/8 NF set screws, using a carbide tool and lots of cutting oil. A "Scotchbright" polish and they were ready to use. Made expanders for my .348 Win, 338 WM, 8x57mm and 32 WS at .002" under the size bullet diameter.

John

[Willbird]

Why can't an M die be used ??


Bill

[HotGuns]

I suppose it could,except I didnt happen to have one.

[longbow]

Here is a link to an article that got me thinking about this sort of project a couple of years ago.

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/762ProjectRifle.html

A slightly different approach but same sort of goal. I thought it was good reading and thought I'd pass it on.

Longbow

[Catshooter]

HotGuns,

Could you post some pics/info about your can build please? I am thinking of doing the same now that I live in a state that allows it.


Cat

[HotGuns]

Here ya go. Easy to make...and very quiet.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/apthoneymoon002.jpg

The can in action...
http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/?action=view&current=WhisperRifle.flv

[Catshooter]

Excellent! Thank you.


Cat

[Triggerhappy]

That thing looks like it would be heavy.

[EMC45]

The report of the rifle sounds like a tree branch breaking. Awesome!

[HotGuns]

That thing looks like it would be heavy.

Actually its pretty light,being made from aluminum. The picture here is the first time I tore it down after firing 300 shots from it. The baffle stack just falls out and the whole can is very easy to clean, and it works well. Its been tested at 110 dbs from 3 feet perpendicular to the muzzle. Most suppressed .22's test around 111dbs.

[Triggerhappy]

Very nice and simple design. I'm impressed. I do have a question, don't know if you would have an answer. I'm a newbie to cans. Suppose I wanted to use the suppressor for both a .30 and .22. Since the serial number is on the tube, would it be legal to have two baffle assemblies and swap them in and out depending on which barrel it's on. The can is the same all the time. It would be the same thing as rebuilding the can but you would have a complete baffle with a different bore diameter. Does having the second baffle assembly constitute a second suppressor even though you only have one tube?

I was thinking about a suppressor built with bushings and "washers" that would be stacked inside. The washers could be swapped for washers with different caliber bores. When outside of the suppressor they're simply a set of washers. Not sure where the BATFE stands on it. The last thing I want to do is something illegal. Even remotely so.

Any way, thanks for the info.

[redneckdan]

nope, can't do that. You can't have anymore parts that what is required to assemble one suppressor. Ie, one baffle stack for each serial number.

[Willbird]

What you COULD do, is build a very long suppressor, this will cost you another $200. But within that suppressor put as many baffle stacks as you need, and swap the stack you are using with the spares in the "big" suppressor. As long as you only have parts on hand to fill both suppressors you should be legal, the "big" suppressor would only be used as a legal way to have and store baffle stacks.

Several mfg are now selling suppressors with modular mounting systems so apparently you can have different end caps for the same can and be legal. Some mfg make a can that uses both a L.I.D (Linear Inertial Decoupler) that is used on say a 1911, and a fixed non LID mounting for the same can. I have also heard of people sending a can back to the mfg to have a spare endcap made for a different thread.

Bill

[redneckdan]

Hotguns, neat idea for the baffles, didn't actually look at the original post before I posted my previous response in this thread. Where'd ya find that idea at? Are there preexsisting designs that use monolithic baffle stacks?

[Cap'n Morgan]

[QUOTE= Are there preexsisting designs that use monolithic baffle stacks?[/QUOTE]

I've seen a couple, and made a few myself. A neat prototype I saw recently was based on screw-on modules. If you need more volume, you just add more modules.

[Bobby Ironsights]

I'm not interested in silencers, but am very interested in the whisper, and molds for it.

I'm currently saving my pennies for a project I've had in mind for about a year, a switchbarrel rifle based on a stevens 200 in .223, with aftermarket trigger, and shilen tubes in .17 remington, and .300 whisper. All of these cartridges use the .223 bolt head, and that will give me 3 calibers, two bull barrel, and one sporter barrel for about a thousand dollars, before optics; the two shilen barrels being the lions share of that. Shilen makes precut, chambered, contoured and crowned stainless steel match barrels for the savage/stevens system, about 300 bucks each retail, and there's a distributor near me who is a benchrest shooter himself and who I trust.

I don't expect longevity from the .17 remington tube, but I expect the .300 whisper to outlive me, if I'm shooting cast boolits.

With practice, my buddy has been able to switch barrels and properly headspace in about ten minutes without rushing, or removing his optics. I also saw an internal action wrench a guy made up that fit on the trailer hitch of his truck so he could spin on and off barrels at the range with only his barrel wrench.

I am concerned though, about using really massive boolits. I'd like to keep my whisper subsonic, perhaps 900 fps, and shilen only lists their savage replacement barrels in 8" twist as their fastest. I'm not sure how long a boolit I can toss out at that rotational velocity and still keep stable.


Bobby.

[HotGuns]

Hotguns, neat idea for the baffles, didn't actually look at the original post before I posted my previous response in this thread. Where'd ya find that idea at? Are there preexsisting designs that use monolithic baffle stacks?

Actually, it goes way back, almost as far back as Hiram Maxim.I've seen articles in several books that show various models and details. Fact of the matter is, they are easier to produce and very effective. Since my design works so well, I see no need to complicate matters by changing the design. I like simple and if it works, its even better.

I got to reading one day and looking at designs and figured, why not? I got a Form One, sent it off and this was the first design I tried. I was told on a couple of other boards that it wouldnt work, that it would affect accuracy and I heard every excuse there was about why it would fail. Me being stubborn, I just had to try it.

It was tested against commerical designs on various dedicated sniper rifles from several police organizations using sound test meters and it was the quiestest of them all, and the most accurate. The police were using suppressed .308's, and although some were almost as quiet, none were even close to being as accurate as mine was.

Check out the video. Even it sounds louder than it is, being shot underneath a covered awning which tends to reflect the sound.

[Boomer Mikey]

Your home made "M" die is excellent... outstanding work. You must enjoy making things; however, I can't buy the material to make one compared to the $14.25 I can purchase one for.

Boomer :Fire:

[EOD3]

Here ya go. Easy to make...and very quiet.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/HotGuns/apthoneymoon002.jpg

If you don't mind my asking, what are the dimensions?