Safety issues with oven treating?

[huntinlever]

Probably a dumb question - but I will be attempting to heat-treat cast bullets in the oven for the first time. Previously, in a dedicated, rimmed cookie sheet, I merely dried them off at 150F for 30-45 minutes. I cannot see why there'd be a food-safety issue with heating them to 420F, again, in a dedicated tray, but then that flies in the face of every food-safety alarm I can imagine.

Thoughts? Just a dumb idea to use any food-purposed oven?

[nhyrum]

I've always used a dedicated oven. I found a cheap toaster oven at a garage sale for 2 bucks.

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[Winger Ed.]

Thoughts? Just a dumb idea to use any food-purposed oven?

It's OK if you're single.

If not, the Mrs. will have your head on a stick if she catches you.

[jonp]

It's OK if you're single.

If not, the Mrs. will have your head on a stick if she catches you.

I know I caught an earful when she went into the kitchen and saw the oven full of brass. I use a cheap WalMart toaster oven. The temp was off so I put a thermometer in it and marked with a sharpi. I don't really see off gassing of lead at that temp to be a problem but a cheap toaster oven would be my choice.

[Sasquatch-1]

If you have the space, spend the $15.00 to $20.00 for a thrift store/yard sale toaster oven. #1, It will keep peace in the family and #2, You can use it to powder coat with as well.

[huntinlever]

Yeah, OK lads, thanks for the nod to reality. I do prefer keeping my place ahead of our lab Murphy in terms of lodgings. I'd heard of pretty wild temp swings with the toaster oven method. While I've built several pid-controlled units for several things, just don't want this one to be that involved. Any issues you guys foresee or have dealt with, in terms of the toast oven method?

[mehavey]

Off-gassing of lead ? No.
Off-gassing of wife ? [smilie=b:

(remember: Truth is no defense) :coffee:

[243winxb]

I use oven to heat treat. I started casting with a lead pot on the kitchen stove . Perfect place with a fan vent over head.
Till 1 day a drop of hot lead made a hole in the new counter top. Wife not happy.
This is about 50 years ago.

Hole still there, wife too. . Smaller then a dime.

[fixit]

OOPS! That is how limits get initiated on what's allowed in the house!

[Winger Ed.]

I know I caught an earful when she went into the kitchen and saw the oven full of brass. .

I got away with that,,,,,,,, right up until the 2nd stow away-- live .45ACP cooked off in the oven.
Since then, all reloading activities have been permanently banned from the kitchen.

More for convenience than concerns about heat treat- I have a office swivel chair for casting.
Wearing welding gloves, I can cut & catch the sprue to ease it back in the pot.
I rotate as I cut the sprue and drop the boolits out and into a 5 gal. bucket of water about 80% full behind me from the pot.
I have a old towel on the bottom and even .45-405s don't ding each other.

I figure it gets me to about the same place as heating them in a oven and then dumping them in water.

[mdi]

In my teens I cast sinkers on Ma's kitchen stove, when she wasn't home. Now this was waay before lead poisoning scare and I just cleaned up using normal kitchen cleanser. I powder coat with a toaster oven of unknown age and for all my purposes the analog temperature control is close enough for all my needs (I often pan lube in the oven too). I guess if I were cooking a roast close temps might be needed but +/- 10-20 degrees make very little (no) difference for my use...

[grayscale]

Winter time and Dad needed to spray paint something, but spray cans are to cold to spray. His idea, warm them up in the oven. I guess he got distracted and left them in too long because... LOUD BANG, and the inside of the oven (electric fortunately) was now painted red with a large dent in one side. If it had been a gas oven that bang might have been a good bit louder. Did mom get a new oven? Heck no, that one still works. He just cleaned it up a little. I guess he didn't really learn the lesson because at a later date he tried drying some empty shotgun hulls in a casserole dish for reloading... OOPS, temps too high and the plastic hulls melted into a
perfect shotshell casserole and a ruined dish. I think mom ot a new oven after that one.

[charlie b]

Used to dry brass all the time in the kitchen oven. Cleaned them in boiling water on the stove.

Never did lead in there. Just didn't want the issue of spilled or splattered.

If you want a real war at home, try taking the new Kitchen Aid mixer to work to use in the shop :)

PS the cheap toaster ovens do fine as long as you measure the temp with a good thermometer.

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[fredj338]

You shouldnt handle lead bullets & food so separate oven for me. There are good cheap toaster ovens or garage sale a full size if you have room.

[huntinlever]

Thanks guys, indeed I did go with a separate toaster oven. Appreciate the dose of sanity.

[405grain]

huntinlever: getting the toaster oven was a good move. Now, not only are you safe from a domestic beating should there be any bullet related mishaps, and need not to worry about those cinnamon rolls giving you lead poisoning, but as an added benefit you now have the facilities to do powder coating as well as heat treating.

[huntinlever]

huntinlever: getting the toaster oven was a good move. Now, not only are you safe from a domestic beating should there be any bullet related mishaps, and need not to worry about those cinnamon rolls giving you lead poisoning, but as an added benefit you now have the facilities to do powder coating as well as heat treating.

Lol. See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twivg7GkYts

-want to avoid if possible.

[Bigslug]

Last time I checked, lead was NOT plutonium, nor chlorine gas. In it's solid state, its not "transmitting" anything bad. In its liquid state, at the temperatures we cast it at, it's a LONG way from boiling into vapor, and likewise, having a hard time transmitting anything bad.

You're wisely using a dedicated transport tray, and deliberately avoiding taking the lead to the liquid state. Yes, the stuff has toxic properties, but then so does your Teflon-coated bakeware if you get it too hot. Just don't pick your nose or lick your palms while in process.

[huntinlever]

Last time I checked, lead was NOT plutonium, nor chlorine gas. In it's solid state, its not "transmitting" anything bad. In its liquid state, at the temperatures we cast it at, it's a LONG way from boiling into vapor, and likewise, having a hard time transmitting anything bad.

You're wisely using a dedicated transport tray, and deliberately avoiding taking the lead to the liquid state. Yes, the stuff has toxic properties, but then so does your Teflon-coated bakeware if you get it too hot. Just don't pick your nose or lick your palms while in process.

Thanks for this. To be honest I couldn't see any issue either, but freely admit there are great holes in my understanding here so deign to you guys. As a former chef, it just raises all kinds of gut-feeling alarms, whether well-founded or not.

Most importantly, my family is very leery, which is enough for me, joking about "doghouse banishment" aside. I found that even in this small toaster tray, 52 bullets was about 1/2 full, and my typical casting session rarely yields north of 100 bullets that pass spec anyway.

[huntinlever]

Well, the toaster oven was a wash. Wild - like 80F - temperature swings and I had to monitor it constantly to turn the thermostat so elements fired on and off within any kind of acceptable range. Even then, I did step away once or twice and though I had a "setpoint" of 420 (and all kinds of others, trying to keep 420-440), sometimes it swung to 510F before shutting off (with carryover temp much higher), other times, went 380F before kicking on (and then 420F, cycling off again). I think that, and the fact elements are way too close to the tray and localized heating is severe, well....you see the photo.

I could do a high-temp PID but my DIY days pretty much ended with cheese vats, aging caves, and beer cellars.

314818

I think I'm getting the hint from Bigslug...casting and immediately quenching for the 45-70, mortar lob to 125 yards at most, is kind of calling my name....

[Walter Laich]

down a side road:

if/when you start powder coating/PC, NEVER, and I mean NEVER, do this in an oven, air fryer, or whatever that you might cook food in after the PC

the inside of my dedicated toaster oven is covered with a fine coating of PC + there is the out-gassing that happens too.

[jonp]

Well, the toaster oven was a wash. Wild - like 80F - temperature swings and I had to monitor it constantly to turn the thermostat so elements fired on and off within any kind of acceptable range. Even then, I did step away once or twice and though I had a "setpoint" of 420 (and all kinds of others, trying to keep 420-440), sometimes it swung to 510F before shutting off (with carryover temp much higher), other times, went 380F before kicking on (and then 420F, cycling off again). I think that, and the fact elements are way too close to the tray and localized heating is severe, well....you see the photo.

I could do a high-temp PID but my DIY days pretty much ended with cheese vats, aging caves, and beer cellars.

314818

I think I'm getting the hint from Bigslug...casting and immediately quenching for the 45-70, mortar lob to 125 yards at most, is kind of calling my name....

You are over thinking this. I have not had a problem with the temperature variations in powder coating or heat treating. Don't get caught up in the details. Do it, shoot it and if it works it's good

[huntinlever]

You are over thinking this. I have not had a problem with the temperature variations in powder coating or heat treating. Don't get caught up in the details. Do it, shoot it and if it works it's good

Jon, I don't know if you saw the pic, but some bullets completely melted while others didn't. At least with the oven I used, the elements apparently gave out way too much local heat - the oven thermometer showed the temp was well within range, as far as I know, so shouldn't have melted like they did. I bailed.

[quack1]

[QUOTE=huntinlever;5585750]Well, the toaster oven was a wash. Wild - like 80F - temperature swings and I had to monitor it constantly to turn the thermostat so elements fired on and off within any kind of acceptable range. Even then, I did step away once or twice and though I had a "setpoint" of 420 (and all kinds of others, trying to keep 420-440), sometimes it swung to 510F before shutting off (with carryover temp much higher), other times, went 380F before kicking on (and then 420F, cycling off again). I think that, and the fact elements are way too close to the tray and localized heating is severe, well....you see the photo.

A piece of 1/8-1/4" thick aluminum on the tray, with bullets placed on it, should even out the temps and prevent localized melting. A piece of steel would work too, just would take longer to heat up. A trip to a scrap yard should provide what you need.

[charlie b]

That works as long as you are not using the upper heating element, which is what most air fryers do. The direct radiant heat is really bad for what we do with bullets. You can make an Al foil 'tent' over the bullets to even that out.

[jimb16]

Interesting! My toaster oven has a 20 degree temp swing. It's a Salivating Army pickup. For monitoring the temp, I drilled a small hole through the top and stick in my lead thermometer. I let the oven heat up before I toss in a tray of pills to PC them. Once I found the correct dial setting I marked it on the dial and I check it each time I use the oven. Never had any problems.

[jonp]

Jon, I don't know if you saw the pic, but some bullets completely melted while others didn't. At least with the oven I used, the elements apparently gave out way too much local heat - the oven thermometer showed the temp was well within range, as far as I know, so shouldn't have melted like they did. I bailed.

I didn't see them but what you show is interesting. I stand mine on end. My cheapo Walmart special fluxes 40, maybe? But I think if your heat treating or powder coating at a high enough temp even with that fluctuation to slump the lead you may be too high to start. Others with more experience can chime in here on this

[huntinlever]

I didn't see them but what you show is interesting. I stand mine on end. My cheapo Walmart special fluxes 40, maybe? But I think if your heat treating or powder coating at a high enough temp even with that fluctuation to slump the lead you may be too high to start. Others with more experience can chime in here on this

I think that my laying on their side was a mistake, now that you mention it. Thanks, too, on the thoughts - I found that if I kept it so the high end was controlled within acceptable temps, it swung so low I wasn't sure actually where I was actually heating them. Maybe a pid might have worked better? Either way, seems the 80F was just too crazy.

[44Blam]

Lead will kill you, but only in bullet form, at high speed.
This is referred to as 'acute lead poisoning'.

I'll post it soon but I am making an oven for paint curing (cerakote, etc) that I will also use for PC or anything that the wife would object to in our kitchen oven... But prior to the not yet finished oven, I have used crappy toaster ovens and they work great!