Loading for the 45 acp revolver

[MEHecker]

Uncle in Law is being overran by chipmunks and red squirrels. Getting into everything and eating the red cedar siding. Has a 410 but kind of loud. Live on lake with neighbors within 100 yards. Wants something with less range and noise. Read about making shotshells so I thought I would give it a try. 308 shell cut to length of a 25-2 S@W cylinder. Run it in a 45 acp sizer then used a 44 mag. die deep enough to make fit in cylinder. Prime case dropped in 6.9 grains of Hi-Skor 800, grabbed my thick 7/ 16 plastic overshot card. No joy, to large to go though 44mag size hole. Fall back plan, use the old paper towel tap down on powder. 250 grains of 5 shot, all I had. You can use the 7/16 on top of shot. Used 357 expander to compress shot and plastic overshot card to make room for wax plug. Made sure they fitted in cylinder then put then in a full moon clip. For me bad idea. Had to fight to get them in. Went to other side of building where I have a 5 gallon bucket sand bullet trap. Right at 7 yards from target. As far as I can tell will keep most if not all in a 5 gallon bucket size lid. I will let him try it out at longer range. Now the unfun part. I could not get the shell out of the moon clip without destroying it, ruin my 1/2 in copper tubing I use to get regular 45 acp out. Well this is a work in progress and I will get it right. Hope I get the idea across, just not used to typing.

[BLAHUT]

A .177 air rifle or traps might be the way to go?? I have used both. Bated rat traps work great..

[Der Gebirgsjager]

A great and worthy endeavor, for sure. There's quite a bit in the Forum Archives about .45 revolver shot shells. The .308 brass is one way to go. Me, being sort of unadventurous, I think I'd go with .45 Auto Rim. Should be able to get enough powder and shot in there to discourage the little rodents, and no half moon clip issues.

DG

[MEHecker]

Could but what's the fun with that? It's what he wants so make him happy.

[TD1886]

I've owned a 38/45 for decades. Two sets of dies for it. One for reloading them after you form them. The form dies are interesting. There are four of them and they are marked 1, 2, 3, and 4. One of them makes the brass the exact size and shape as the CCI shotshells for the 45 ACP. It wouldn't be too hard for you if you had them to size 45 Win Mags down. I do use those casings, but I trimed them to length for my 1911.

[MEHecker]

I don't think that I trust him with my Auto Rim. brass . Reading up on post for shot shells in 45 automatic pistols you can only get about 120 grains of shot. That using smaller shot then what I use. Thinking I could use moon clips I wasn't concerned on seating of the 44 mag length. Will try more and see if I can use the shoulder for headspace . Push them out with a pencil.

[MEHecker]

45 Win. Mag. Is 1.20 in length. My cylinder is somewhere around 1.6 maybe a little less. More shot in the 308 brass.

[challenger_i]

+1 for 45 Win Mag brass, but... be on the lookout for the cases to back-set.
Also, rather than using the 44 Mag die for the bottleneck, try a 41 Mag die. Run it through the 44 mag die first, if
the 41 mag die gives you any problems.

On another note, you can use 445 Mag brass to make a pipsqueak shot shell for the 410. Load it by using the Speer 44 shot shell data in the manual as a starting load. Makes for a real good (and quiet) critter gitter. Is what I use for pigeons in the big hangar (125ftx75ft WWII Army Air Corps barn).

[TD1886]

45 Win. Mag. Is 1.20 in length. My cylinder is somewhere around 1.6 maybe a little less. More shot in the 308 brass.

Maybe just try it for a test. May be the 308 case being much thick the powder and wads suck up more space then you know. You're entire 308 case is much thick all the to the mouth too.

[MEHecker]

The 410 he is using is the Rossi Match Pair single shot 45/410 pistol. Borrow it from me two year ago, says I can't have it back. Maybe if I get the 25-2 working I can borrow it for a short length of time.. Uses the Rossi for grouse in thick timber in the north lands. The pistol has a shoulder so you can't load a 454 or a 460S@W. I don't load for 45 Colt and really don't want to start. I know I can get 250 grains in it if my math is right.

[challenger_i]

That is why I recommended the 445 Mag case: it'll fit.

I use the 45 Win Mag case for making shot shells for the 1911. Work great. However, when I tried them in my
1917 Smith, with half-moon clips, by the third round they had back-set and locked down the cylinder. You may not have that issue with the thicker 308 cases, but it is something to watch for.

[Intel6]

I did this back in the 90's. I was making .45 ACP length shotshells and then thought about making longer/more payload versions for my S&W 625's.It was relatively easy to make the longer cases and I loaded them the same as the ACP length cases with a cut down .410 wad and a piece of clear acetate crimped over the top. Again this was over 20+ years ago so I don't have any data handy but I remember using the ACP length data as a starting point. I found some pics I have so you can see what I came up with.

So here you see a .308 case in a moon clip that has the new shoulder formed and sized down to fit in my 625 cylinder and another case that has been trimmed. You basically cut it off right at the shoulder.

314757

In this pic you can see that same clip out of the cylinder with the trimmed and untrimmed cases. and then a batch of trimmed and formed cases.

314758


In this last pic which was taken with poor lighting you can see the trimmed wad and shot charge in the pan, then a wad and shot payload loaded in a case and then finally a loaded round with a clear acetate wad crimped into place.


314759



Here is a pic of my regular ACP length shotshells from start to finish

314760

Here is a pic of something I came up with for the ACP length shells, using a OO buck crimped in the mouth of the case to seal up the cartridge rather than the acetate. I worked decently enough and the buck shot was usually in the pattern when I tested them.


314761

[MEHecker]

No wads just straight lead. Question on moon clips? I had to get forceful to get rounds into moon clips and destroyed it getting them out. No problem with 45 acp so must be 308 brass. Have problems yourself or is it me

[MEHecker]

Will do. I see what you mean by using 445 cases. Smaller diameter. Don't think I like him that much to buy new brass for him.

[challenger_i]

Well, I never said it was CHEAP! :)

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Speer Shot Capsules work well, but finding them is tricky. I fill them with #11 shot for rattlers, #8 or 9 would probably work for squirrels. I have also shortened .444 for revolver shotshells.

[challenger_i]

The thing I like about 44 Marlin brass is that standard 410 plastic wads fit "just right". Saves having to find or cut over-powder felt or card wads.

[jmorris]

If a full length .410 is too loud, a pistol probably won’t be any better. A moderated PCP would be a lot better idea.

Remember pushing the shot harder just opens up the pattern out of a rifled barrel and when you step a case that long extraction or binding as the try and back out can occur.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=314793&d=1686059248

[jmorris]

I also use cut down .410 wads.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=314794&d=1686059506

Regular 45 ACP shot round on the left.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Ranch Products makes/made a 1/3 moon clip that might work better with the .308's. I have used them for .45 shotshells, or for carrying spare cartridges in loops when the bulk of full moon clips was not wanted. The original half moon clips may also take the .308 shotshells more easily than the full moons. Ranch Products is still around. Got my clips from them 25-30+ years ago.

[HWooldridge]

I don't know if the rim will work in a 45 ACP revolver, but I started using 5 in 1 blank cases from Starline to make shotshells. I size them in a 38-40 die so they'll fit anything I own, from 44-40 to 44 Special to 45 Colt. They are already the correct length and easy to stuff with whatever shot size is desired. I compared weight to a plastic 44 Speer capsule and the 5 in 1 will hold a few more pellets but it's not a huge difference. The most important thing to me is that the brass cases are much more robust than the Speer capsules. 4-5 grains of a fast pistol powder gives enough ooomph to kill snakes and birds up close.

[kopcicle]

45ACP extractor groove is .400"
308 extractor groove is .409"+
6.5x55 Swede extractor groove is .413" and the rim is a touch larger in diameter with a noticeable chamfer.

So,

Modify the moon clips.

or

Turn the brass.

+ .010"- .014" doesn't seem like much until you try to get .308 brass in and out of a moon clip.

So, someone might ask how I know this?

In an unrelated project I modified 6.5 Swede and .308 Win into 45ACP brass for silly pressures and heavy boolits.
Owning a 25-2 S&W occasionally complicated things when I didn't pay attention to headstamps.

[Gray Fox]

Does .444 Marlin brass work in a .45 Colt? GF

[challenger_i]

If you shorten it. Be advised: if it is a swing-out cylinder, the extractor may jump the rim. Rod-eject works fine.

[Harter66]

Brace for full blasphemy......

Cut empty 410s off at cylinder face length and do a folded or roll crimp after firing the high brass may even head space . Sizing ia a non issue with the plastic case .

[Alferd Packer]

Conibear 110 traps will cut down your squirrel problem.
I prefer to hunt them, but if noise from shooting is a problem or lack of suitable backstop, then the traps are cheap, fun, and a challenge to set up to catch them.
And they are all edible.
The traps are cheap and a half dozen is best way to buy them.
Squirrels seem to explode the population when they are hunted or trapped.
This is a shooting thread and I prefer to keep it that away, but when they overrun you, they get in and chew up wiring in house and truck/car and they make a mess.Well, I pull out all the stops.
Also, a .22 airgun will decimate them as well.
The neighbors are probably feeding the squirrels making it worse.

[MEHecker]

Had to take a file to groove to open them up to use moonclips and shave back of shell, couldn't close cylinder, hanging up on recoil shield. Made him 50 shell, should last him awhile. Next time I make them I will use the o ring trick and blow them out in the 410 first. Easier to cut. So far 3 chipmunk and 2 red squirrel. Had to double tap the squirrels. Using 5 shot, may have to go to small shot to get more pellets on target. How he is talking about going over to friends place to shoot black birds over the bird feeder. Just what I wanted to do, Fred his habits.

[Tall]

A 12 gauge shotgun with #9 shot works well on them.

[badwolf]

Harter, would 410 shells work in a 45 colt ruger blackhawk?