Looking for a BP lube better than SPG or Emmert's

[greenjoytj]

Looking for a lube better than SPG or Emmert's Improved to use with Black Powder and Smokeless.

I liked SPG, it did work good but always having to order it and have it shipped was a nuisance.
It is expensive when I factor in the shipping, taxes, and the $ exchange rate of the near worthless Canadian dollar.

I homemade a big batch of Emmert's Improved lube ~23 sticks 1'x4' size and it worked ok in the beginning.

I've learned I can't pre lubrisize a bunch of cast bullets because the lube dries out a bit and causes a crystal like deposit to form on the lead.
Oddly the nose of the lead bullets turn dark gray but the sized shank of the bullets stays chrome shinny.

I keep the lubed bullets in a green MTM bullet storage box, the box lids close but not air tight.

There must be something in the lube ingredients that is slowly evaporating.
A box of bullets I lubrisized with Emmert's last year show a mottled discolouration on all the lead.
The lube ring it self is shrinking and looks concave in the middle of the ring where it was parallel with the bullet shank when it was sized.
Also the lube ring is turning white and fuzzy where it touched the edge of the lead bullet.

I tried a modified Emmert's, made with no liquid oil added and tripled the lanolin quantity.
This version seem ok with smokeless powder but does not have the wetting action to keep the BP fouling soft.

I am starting to think that it the Crisco (blue box no salt) shortening that's drying out
But I know bee's wax will also form a white coat is left exposed to air long enough.

Maybe its the evaporated Crisco molecules condensing on the lead that's causing the lead to discolour in a accelerated manor.

I've read about not using petroleum based oils with black powder because it will make a tar.
My homemade Emmert's makes plenty of tar. One time I tried using my Redding Profile crimp die and I had to hammer the empty cases out of the cylinder chambers, the taper portion of the crimp allowed so much blow back to flow under the case mouth it created a perfect black tar ring around the case mouth and a little beyond on one side of the case. That tar glued the fired cases in chambers.
BP use really put the fire back into firearm it creates great heat and cooks some but not all the Emmert's to tar.

I've read Lithi-Bee make a good bullet lube for smokeless but I am looking for a 1 lube ring to rule the all, using both smokeless and Black Powder.

Right now I'm thinking of remelting my homemade Emmert's and adding just a bit of liquid Jojoba oil to get it wetting the BP fouling again like SPG did. SPG was great for leaving the whole outside of the revolver fully slimed after shooting a box of 50 shot.

Any ideas for a good homemade BP capable lube would be welcome.
Or some product that could be substituted for the Crisco component.

[Castaway]

Gato Feo # 1. Said to be as good or better than SPG. By weight; mutton tallow, paraffin, and bees wax in a 2:2:1 ratio

[muskeg13]

For BP and handgun smokeless, try experimenting with beeswax and olive oil, adjusting the ratios until you get the consistency you want. It has been so long since I made up a big batch that I don't remember the exact formula, but it's easy to make and stores well.

[stubshaft]

Gatafeo is good stuff but I had a hard time getting mutton tallow.

[Carrier]

I don’t use it for smokeless as I pc those but beeswax and olive oil really works well out of my trapdoor or 45 Colt Bisley. Need to adjust ratio for ambient temperature. Just looked as I have some I pan lubed 6 months ago and looked the same as the day I did them.

[Outpost75]

I use beeswax and olive oil with either BP or smokeless with fine results. The traditional ratio is 50-50 by liquid volume for use in black powder cartridges. But for long term storage and occasional exposure to warmer temperatures above 90 degs F a 60 beeswax to 40 olive oil is firmer for use in a lubricator-sizerxas opposed to pan lubing.

I have experimented with substituting neatsfoot oil and it also works fine, but with no particular advantage. As for the olive oil I use the least expensive grocery store Spanish olive oil and keep the best Italian and Greek oils for kitchen and table use.

[MaLar]

I make my own lube. I loaded some BP cartridges in 2017.
Shot them last week worked as well as six years ago and didn't dry out.
1 Lb of Bees wax
1 Lb of Sheep tallow
2 Oz of Lanolin
2 Oz of Jojoba oil probably could use any thing else?

SPG would give me leading I get no leading with this.

[Brimstone]

I use homemade beef tallow in my Gato Feo. Been 4 years and hasn't gone rancid.
If you use homemade tallow, you need to cycle tallow through melted and cool solid phases 4 or 5 times to remove gelatin and water that will cause it to go rancid. That's what I did. Worked perfectly.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

https://www.buffaloarms.com/d-g-l-1-pound-tub-of-black-po-dgl1.html

I have been using DGL for over a decade and love it. A little more oily than SPG. Keeps the fouling wet and soft.

[Larry Gibson]

I use 5 parts beeswax to 4 parts olive oil (liquid volume) for use in Lyman 450.

[missionary5155]

Another Beeswax + Olive oil user for may years.
A big plus is you can put it on toast, in oatmeal ...... no problems with ingestion.

[GregLaROCHE]

For everyone using olive oil in your lube, why not use canola oil instead? It’s usually much cheaper and the flash point is significantly higher.

[greenjoytj]

Further info to the first post:

2 problems revealed them selves when I got out of storage the large 64 oz steel can I used 6 years ago when I made my batch of Emmerts Improved bullet lube.

1) I noticed tiny rust spots developing in the bottom and on the side of the can underneath the thin layer of old (6 years) lube that was left in the can after my first batch of homemade bullet lube was poured out into molds.
As the can quickly cool that last bit of lube stiffened and remained in the can.
The can has been sealed for storage in plastic to keep dust out.

I was shocked to see rust developing under what is supposed to be a protective lube coating.
Very disturbing & disappointing.

2) The seam in the can has a weird growth of fuzzy gray white stuff. It has grown a tall 2mm fin down the length of the seam where ever the lube touched the seam.
Some kind of chemical action is occurring in the seam with the lube.
The Lube coating in the seam is supplying something that the lead solder in the cans seam is reacting with, creating what I call some kind of corrosion, it’s creating a fuzzy grey fin (the fin maybe crystals) very soft powdery dust like stuff that falls from the fin to a small dust pile at the bottom of the cans seam.
I can’t re-use this can to melt my old Emmerts lube sticks, it got tossed.
Had to acquire a new container to melt my lube in.
I found a nice enamelled steel measuring cup that can hold ~1.5 litres and will fit in a saucepan with wire rack for double boiler style heating on my hot plate.

I have melted down my old Emmerts lube that caused the “fin growth” issue and mixed it with a March 2022 batch of lube I made that I called “ASELENOL”.
This lube batch was made without any added liquid oil and 15% lanolin.
I called that special batch of lube “ASELENOL” (All Season Emmerts Lanolin Enhanced No Oil Lube).
I had only made 8 sticks (400 grams) of that lube. It didn’t work will with BP in the winter cold weather but was ok with smokeless year round.

So both lube batches were melted and blended together.
I added enough Jojoba* oil to bring the total oil content up to ~6%.
My Original Emmerts had olive oil in the mix.
My source for Jojoba oil is in *LUBEGARD® PREMIUM UNIVERSAL LUBRICANT.
This batch made 23 sticks 1’ x 4¼” size.
This new batch I’m calling it “blend” because it is just a blend of two old lubes.
My lube stick mold only make 4 stick at a time so I had to remelt the lube again each time I poured another 4 sticks.
That took 2 days due to the cooling time in the stick molds.
I don’t know if the multiple reheating will or will have altered any of the lube ingredients chemistry.

Time will tell if this “Blend” version will cause shooing issues, or any corrosion problems occurring again on my cast lead bullets like the Emmerts Improved has been doing.
I will wipe some on the seam of a steel can to see if fin growth corrosion starts again.
I suspect it will cause corrosion again because the lube still contains ~ 37% Crisco shortening (blue box no salt verity).

I think it is the Crisco shortening ingredient which makes up 40% of the original Emmerts lube formula that is reacting to the lead in the steel can seam.
Bullets I lubed a year ago show this same fuzzy grey/white stuff where the lube touches the lead alloy (20% tin:lead) and their lube rings shows shrinkage in the center of the lube ring, the ring appears concave no longer parallel to the side of the bullet shank.

My next lube batch will not contain any Crisco shortening!

The simple beeswax and Jojoba oil will likely be my next lube attempt.

[Castaway]

Duro-felt carries mutton tallow

[gwpercle]

I can vouch for Lithi-Bee in smokeless loads and can tell you the lube , in stick form , and lubed / sized boolits stay good for decades ... I tend to lube/size lots o boolits and store them in little boolit-boxes ... they keep , some are 15 years old .
No crystals form and the lube doesn't dry out .
1 part (pound) Lithium (Lucas Red-N-Tacky) grease to 3 parts (pounds) Beeswax.

I have no idea if this can used for black powder loads ... but maybe the recipe can be modified with an additional ingredient or two to make it suitable for black .

As is , Lithi-Bee is the one boolit lube I have kept coming back to in the last 50 years with smokeless loads ... just works for me .
Gary

[vagrantviking]

In Canada dragonbulletlube.com has several lubes including a bp lube that work well for me. Reasonable price too.

Did my own blends for years but decided to simplify things and focus on the casting more. Haven't regretted it.