Am I the only one that puts a PID on his oven?

[AbitNutz]

So I have a cheap Hamiltonbeach (WallyWorld) toaster oven to cook my bullets. I think I paid the Rain Forrest $50 for it. I'm wedded to Hi-Tek Supercoat so I'm convinced that accurate temperatures are critical. The oven has no useful thermostat so I hook a PID to it. It works great.
Here's my concern. The PID constantly cycles the oven on and off to keep the temperature. I mean it flips it on and off every 5 seconds or more.
Is this constant on-and-off going to kill the oven? Or cause overheated wires or components? I mean it's not exactly Swiss quality.

[HATCH]

I have sold many PIDs to people that use it to control ovens.
Ovens that have mechanical controls won’t have any issues but ones that have electronic controls might have issues.

[AbitNutz]

Good to know. I'll stop buying fire extinguishers.

[redhawk0]

I use a PID on my pot and my oven. I put a K-Type connector on my PID so I can just swap sensors for my various needs. My oven was a $10 find at the Salvation Army. It's small but it can do about 200 boolits at a time.

redhawk

[AbitNutz]

I drilled a hole in the back of my oven and ran a sensor in there. I was surprised to see how completely off not only the oven was but also my cheap thermometer I put inside it. I would have thought my 99 cent thermometer would have been better than my $50 oven.

[OS OK]

I had a PID that only read out in centigrade, no option for Fahrenheit so I put it in my convection oven...a Chineee'liar oven it was...

https://i.imgur.com/RGY2YhJm.jpg

I used a kitchen analog thermometer to monitor the heat in the control area of the oven...thinking that these components will likely fry in there next to the oven but I added some insulation too....
Then I added a computer fan to the side to blow ambient air directly in the control area...hoping to mitigate a melt down in there.

https://i.imgur.com/DJ6slPTm.jpg . https://i.imgur.com/iuwetK8m.jpg

MADE IN CHINA - REMADE PROPER IN THE USA

https://i.imgur.com/QJ8FkE4l.jpg

[Walter Laich]

PID in cheap wally world oven

mounted in a separate box, not inside the oven's enclosure

°C only--cheap PID off ebay; set to 207°C = 400°F

has been working for over 5 years without a problem

holds within plus/minus 1°

[AbitNutz]

Mine's been working for a while and it is what I would call "accurate". But it ain't plus/minus 1 degree. It might be 5 degrees but that would be the absolute best.

[Hick]

Many PIDs out there-- it's just a question of what makes you feel good about your results. I don't use one, but I always set the oven to the exact same setting, keep the batch size the same always, and the time the same always, and always use the same type of powder.

[AbitNutz]

I understand what you're saying and I may be wrong in what in my understanding of things. I use Hi-Tek Supercoat, which is kinda sorta powder coating but with some very significant differences. My understanding is that precise temperature control is required more with this stuff than with normal powder coating. I know for a fact that if the temperature is off you just wasted a lot of time and likely have to throw the bullets back in the pot for a re-do.

[D.Bullets]

So I have a cheap Hamiltonbeach (WallyWorld) toaster oven to cook my bullets. I think I paid the Rain Forrest $50 for it. I'm wedded to Hi-Tek Supercoat so I'm convinced that accurate temperatures are critical. The oven has no useful thermostat so I hook a PID to it. It works great.
Here's my concern. The PID constantly cycles the oven on and off to keep the temperature. I mean it flips it on and off every 5 seconds or more.
Is this constant on-and-off going to kill the oven? Or cause overheated wires or components? I mean it's not exactly Swiss quality.

No mine has worked for 8 years now. Wire fan to be running continuously though so it doesnt go on and off with the oven.
314424
314425

[AbitNutz]

I didn't think of that. I may peel back the Chinesium back and wire the to bypass the plug. Hmm...or I could do nothing and wait for it to die and buy another for 40 bucks. Decisions decisions.

[popper]

I used a PID controlled oven for hitek but don't do hitek anymore. Actually tossed the oven (into trash) for a hot plate - S&B PC and cook on hot plate.

[AbitNutz]

I can't cook so that option is out. Last time I tried I was Googling the number for poison control.

[D.Bullets]

I am experimenting with Wet dipping Powder coat. Hopefully test them tomorrow.
314432

[D.Bullets]

I didn't think of that. I may peel back the Chinesium back and wire the to bypass the plug. Hmm...or I could do nothing and wait for it to die and buy another for 40 bucks. Decisions decisions.

You installed a PID to have accurate control of the temperatures in the oven to get a good PC cure. Also the PID is not kicking out full power when cycling on (thats what they do). You will want the fan running at full speed all the time to circulating the heat evenly (factory thermostats have a larger temp variance for more fan circulation time, reducing hot spots) On mine once up to tempature the PID would start short cycling at a reduced power and would enen not turn the fan.
Hooking the fan up directly to the power switch has really helped with all my oven cure issues. Hoped this helps you (everyone) out.

[AbitNutz]

I'm convinced. I'm going to wire the fan to always be on. After all, it's supposed to be a convection oven. It can't do that if the fan is off half the time.

[D.Bullets]

I am experimenting with Wet dipping Powder coat. Hopefully test them tomorrow.
314432

Shot these bullets today. I was not impressed. I thing the extra .0015 PC on the front lets them ride the bore more true. I may test that by dipping
them up to the bend at the point. I do like how they look.

[Walstr]

You installed a PID to have accurate control of the temperatures in the oven to get a good PC cure. Also the PID is not kicking out full power when cycling on (thats what they do). You will want the fan running at full speed all the time to circulating the heat evenly (factory thermostats have a larger temp variance for more fan circulation time, reducing hot spots) On mine once up to tempature the PID would start short cycling at a reduced power and would enen not turn the fan.
Hooking the fan up directly to the power switch has really helped with all my oven cure issues. Hoped this helps you (everyone) out.

Greetings,
Some PID controllers can be configured as a "switch", but that wastes their programability, as it were.
They are to be configured to reduce power output "proportional" (gain) to the difference between "setpoint" & "probe input."

The "Intergral" action is added to the Gain so that the closer to the setpoint, the output slows to a crawl, ideally not overshooting to much, which calls for zero output.

The "Derivitive" function & adjustments is too complex for this brief discussion.

If your PID is cycling like a switch, it's setup incorrectly.

[AbitNutz]

Greetings,
Some PID controllers can be configured as a "switch", but that wastes their programability, as it were.
They are to be configured to reduce power output "proportional" (gain) to the difference between "setpoint" & "probe input."

The "Intergral" action is added to the Gain so that the closer to the setpoint, the output slows to a crawl, ideally not overshooting to much, which calls for zero output.

The "Derivitive" function & adjustments is too complex for this brief discussion.

If your PID is cycling like a switch, it's setup incorrectly.

Well, all I know is I set the temp and it does what it does. Beyond that I don't know.
I was able to solder in a new cord to directly plug into the a 120v outlet after I confirmed it was 120v, and that works great.

[Walstr]

So I have a cheap Hamiltonbeach (WallyWorld) toaster oven to cook my bullets. I think I paid the Rain Forrest $50 for it. I'm wedded to Hi-Tek Supercoat so I'm convinced that accurate temperatures are critical. The oven has no useful thermostat so I hook a PID to it. It works great.
Here's my concern. The PID constantly cycles the oven on and off to keep the temperature. I mean it flips it on and off every 5 seconds or more.
Is this constant on-and-off going to kill the oven? Or cause overheated wires or components? I mean it's not exactly Swiss quality.

iF PID is cycling like a switch, it's not configured correctly. Below is a link to my PID controller operator's manual. PID's have 3 modes of operation called: Proportional, Integral & Derivative. These are to be configured as a joint effort or a team of controls.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362%20instruction%201.6.pdf

I'll attempt to summarize: Proportional action: Sensitivity to deviation from setpoint; The further away (as in a cold pot/oven) the more power is delivered. Power is gradually reduced as "setpoint" is approached. If Proportional action or Gain is set to high, the setpoint will be missed, the power won't diminish in time, then will 'turn off' until the temperature is below setpoint, then power is applied too much & too fast, so it cycles off again to wait for the next cool down! Whew.


Integral action: This feature is used to essentially modify the Gain/Proportional setting by changing it based upon the difference between Setpoint & Process (pot/oven) temperature. That is, the closer Process & Setpoint approach each other, the smaller the Gain will be. (It's like walking slower as you approach the cliff?!?) There will technically be some Overshoot, but it gets smaller & smaller each temperature cycle. Now it's no longer a switch.

Differential action: This is more difficult to comprehend, as it modifies the effect of the previous two control actions.
E.G. From a cold start (pot or oven) the previous two control actions start reducing power soon after the Process begins to respond & starts warming. So maybe I'm the impatient type & want to keep full power going until the Process is only 10% away from the Setpoint, then backoff my contribution to the job & tell the P & I they can start taking over. That's the best I can tell that story right now. For perspective, Derivitive control action was designed to accommodate large or a slow thermal responding process, like a cold pot with 10# of lead! I sense you're thinking about your water heater; well that works more like a switch, as does your furnace & typical home HVAC. OH...Most of these PID controllers have "Auto Tune", so try that & interrogate the controller for the settings it derived for each PID function. I don't think those settings are saved, rather it starts over next time it turned on...

Techy's may criticize this explanation, so what, I tried. I can always discuss control theory & 40 years experience...that'll bore them to tears, eh :) Wally

[KenH]

You got it right about PID, but the typical oven wired to a PID might not get the full "proportional" benefits. Like many of us my oven is controlled by a SSR that switches ON or OFF. That requires the oven to be switched at full power each time. Still works just fine, holds ±1°F nicely. As the temp approaches setup the on/off cycle tends to get shorter so there's less overshoot.

[Walstr]

You got it right about PID, but the typical oven wired to a PID might not get the full "proportional" benefits. Like many of us my oven is controlled by a SSR that switches ON or OFF. That requires the oven to be switched at full power each time. Still works just fine, holds ±1°F nicely. As the temp approaches setup the on/off cycle tends to get shorter so there's less overshoot.

Riight! I forgot about the SSR components "these days"!

[jsizemore]

Got a PID on the oven, another on the lead pots and another on the lubesizers. If any one of them goes down, I got backup till parts come in. So far, no problems.

[AbitNutz]

Got a PID on the oven, another on the lead pots and another on the lubesizers. If any one of them goes down, I got backup till parts come in. So far, no problems.

What temp do you run the PID on the lubrisizer at?

[jsizemore]

What temp do you run the PID on the lubrisizer at?

36°C for White Label Carnuba Red. 28°C on the Micro-Lube.