high HP crate engines

[porthos]

just curious: watching the motor trend channel on tv. a lot of the restorations are installing "crate engines" 1000 HP +-. to what purpose is this for, vs. what came standard in the muscle car era ie. 327, 383, 426, 427 cubic in. just what can you do with 1000 hp. in a street car. i do understand that fuel injection makes a much better engine; but why the hp??

[Tazman1602]

Pretty much because you can, *most* of those builds if you notice have either Art Morrison frames/suspension or Roadster shop with VERY specialized drive trains. Now as far as 1K HP goes, the next problem is something guys have been playing with for decades —- getting that much HP to the ground without breaking parts. I love hot rods I’m an old racer but I don’t see the sense in that either. Our current 6.2 liter truck has north of 450HP and it is a BALL when you step on it — but it likes gas when/if you do that. By the way those cars they’re building? Some of them are WAY NORTH of $100K…..hope this helped!

[imashooter2]

Street cars run the gamut between 3 wheel city transport to Super Stock drag racers with headlights and a real windshield. 1,000 horses in a drag style car mean you can get between red lights really quickly. 1,000 ponies in a road race style car make merging and passing a breeze. I don't want either at this point in my life, but there was a time... :drinks:

[imashooter2]

Pretty much because you can, *most* of those builds if you notice have either Art Morrison frames/suspension or Roadster shop with VERY specialized drive trains. Now as far as 1K HP goes, the next problem is something guys have been playing with for decades —- getting that much HP to the ground without breaking parts. I love hot rods I’m an old racer but I don’t see the sense in that either. Our current 6.2 liter truck has north of 450HP and it is a BALL when you step on it — but it likes gas when/if you do that. By the way those cars they’re building? Some of them are WAY NORTH of $100K…..hope this helped!

LOL! I've replaced more carrier bearings than you could count with an abacus. 8-)

[downzero]

just curious: watching the motor trend channel on tv. a lot of the restorations are installing "crate engines" 1000 HP +-. to what purpose is this for, vs. what came standard in the muscle car era ie. 327, 383, 426, 427 cubic in. just what can you do with 1000 hp. in a street car. i do understand that fuel injection makes a much better engine; but why the hp??

Because people like performance? There are factory cars with over 700 horsepower. The cars from the muscle car era have style, but they are an absolute joke compared to modern cars in terms of any kind of race.

[TD1886]

Because people like performance? There are factory cars with over 700 horsepower. The cars from the muscle car era have style, but they are an absolute joke compared to modern cars in terms of any kind of race.

So are their brakes, suspension, and steering a joke compared to the stuff.

[Misery-Whip]

They like buying tires, fuel, u-joints, transmissions...and straightening frames...

[GhostHawk]

My best friend in the years after High School had a 70 Cuda with a 340 and a 6 pack.

There was only one other car in the county that could maybe take it.

It was a GTO with a 440. Best of 3 we'd win one, he'd win one, and in the middle of the third he would blow his tranny and be out of commission for 3-6 months while he earned enough to fix it.

I can not imagine needing or wanting more than that.

BTW common thing was sunday afternoon quarter mile races for cases of beer. Tis a wonder any of us lived.

And 3 months before we turned 21 and could drink legally, Minnesota changed the drinking age to 18.
I tried real hard to get my buddy to spend the night with me, or just park it and sleep it off. But no, he had to try to make the 8 miles home. 6 miles of blacktop was no sweat but he rolled it on the gravel, put it into the ditch upside down. Totaled the Cuda. He tried to save the engine but it was never the same after that.

[TD1886]

My best friend in the years after High School had a 70 Cuda with a 340 and a 6 pack.

There was only one other car in the county that could maybe take it.

It was a GTO with a 440. Best of 3 we'd win one, he'd win one, and in the middle of the third he would blow his tranny and be out of commission for 3-6 months while he earned enough to fix it.

I can not imagine needing or wanting more than that.

BTW common thing was sunday afternoon quarter mile races for cases of beer. Tis a wonder any of us lived.

And 3 months before we turned 21 and could drink legally, Minnesota changed the drinking age to 18.
I tried real hard to get my buddy to spend the night with me, or just park it and sleep it off. But no, he had to try to make the 8 miles home. 6 miles of blacktop was no sweat but he rolled it on the gravel, put it into the ditch upside down. Totaled the Cuda. He tried to save the engine but it was never the same after that.

All I have to say it must have been a small county. Where I grew up a 340 was nothing. You would literally have to have thousands of dollars in one of those to make it deadly. I dusted a couple of those with a 327 Chevy. I even raced a friend's hemi Charger and he only just beat me at the end. Had I put some money into the car, which I didn't have. it would have run even better. The cars to beat back in the 60's and 70's were the 454's, 427's both Chevy and Ford, the 429 Fords, the 426 Hemis and the 440 Mopars. The 396 Chevys causes a lot of trouble too. Occassionaly there would be a 409 Chevy that run like a bat out of hell. I never seen a 389 GTO that impressed me. Same goes for a 383 Mopar unless it had big bucks in it.

[compass will]

It might be fun, but my 400hp v6 f150 gets me in enough trouble.

[GhostHawk]

Yes it was a small county and highly rural.

[pmer]

Tractor pulling

https://youtu.be/7eWKDBKgL3U

If I had a 1000 horse burning a hole in my pocket this is what I'd do with it lol. WOT is short for wide open throttle.

[gunther]

Several years ago, a buddy remarked that he had left a porsche behind at around 155mph on the interstate the night before. His ride was a dodge pickup that looked like a highway department refugee. The engine was a 440, and there was a pretty good locking differential involved. I asked him how much pedal he had left; he figured about half. Remarkably, he said the truck would get 20 mpg if you took it easy. He had several 440 blocks stashed away and did wonders with 383's, too. His bread and butter was rebuilding diesel trucks.

[sukivel]

My best friend in the years after High School had a 70 Cuda with a 340 and a 6 pack.

There was only one other car in the county that could maybe take it.

It was a GTO with a 440. Best of 3 we'd win one, he'd win one, and in the middle of the third he would blow his tranny and be out of commission for 3-6 months while he earned enough to fix it.

I can not imagine needing or wanting more than that.

BTW common thing was sunday afternoon quarter mile races for cases of beer. Tis a wonder any of us lived.

And 3 months before we turned 21 and could drink legally, Minnesota changed the drinking age to 18.
I tried real hard to get my buddy to spend the night with me, or just park it and sleep it off. But no, he had to try to make the 8 miles home. 6 miles of blacktop was no sweat but he rolled it on the gravel, put it into the ditch upside down. Totaled the Cuda. He tried to save the engine but it was never the same after that.

Imagine if you had a GTO 440 6 pack now! You could sell it and buy a house!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

just what can you do with 1000 hp. in a street car. i do understand that fuel injection makes a much better engine; but why the hp??
we now live in a world of extremes.
1000 HP doesn't make sense to me either ...there is so much in our society today, that doesn't make sense to me.
.
Maybe, the world has passed us by?

[porthos]

as john said above ; i think that the world has passed us up.

[Wag]

High HP is easy enough to install but all of the structural improvements you have to do make it a little tricky.

--Wag--

[MaryB]

They like buying tires, fuel, u-joints, transmissions...and straightening frames...

Driven normally that 1k HP crate engine gets 20+ mpg! They use a computer engine management system to control fuel, timing, spark....

[MaryB]

Street racers buy those engines... and since the Discovery channel show it has really taken off... original cast are all racing no prep on tracks and not so much the street anymore. No prep racing means they do not do anything to the track, it is slick and hard to keep the tires glued to begin the races, as rubber builds it gets sticky... and they have to adjust tune to drive both cases. And some of those cars are 2k++ HP!

Back when I was 16 I built a 1974 AMC Gremlin with a 401 V8, 750 rear wheel HP without the nitrous... we used narrowed rear ends out of trucks to handle the HP. It was actually pretty reliable, street legal if I left the wheelie bars off. Ran low 9's to high 8's in the 1/4 mile. Did a little "street" racing on the piece of road the sheriff closed off for us to use Friday night and Saturday. It had no driveways or connecting roads in a 5 mile stretch, had been repaved the year before we started using it... Only requirement is we have an ambulance and fire truck on hand and every car had to pass a safety inspection so no junk with bald tires...

We had a blast, sheriff knew where we were and we were being safe instead of using random roads all over the county.

Friends 1970 Mustang Mach One hit 1khp rear wheels then the dyno blew up... street car 100% barely! Idle was a wee bit rough LOL

Ahh the days of turning wrenches and having a blast! Someone broke everybody in the car club helped them out.

[jsizemore]

Got a friend that has those kinds of cars built. Makes a bunch of money selling them to guys with garages filled with production high performance cars and are looking for "one of a kind" cars. They've got money to burn and buys all kinds of high end stuff. Just oversized kids. Accountant says go spend money on a new car and pay less tax. No restriction on the kind of car just use it for your business. They're pretty good for picking up girls in some areas.

The friend drives a leased 600hp BMW M8. Most times Priess and Corrolas pass us in traffic. I've only seen his Audi R-10 leave the garage when it's service time.

[Lloyd Smale]

you need to keep in mind how the rest of the car is built. lets take my old ls6 chevelle which in the day at 450 crank hp. measured by todays standards about 350-375 wheel hp. now with a chassis that is closer to a 48 chev then it is something like a new zl1 camaro that you could throw a cage in it some racing tires crank up the stereo put the ace on and show richard petty your working taillights. A chassis that will corner with a new porche and be a pro stock drag car from the 60s. now i had that chevelle and today have a 2011 392 challenger. i had it dyno'd before and after a tune and it did 421 before and with a cat back annd tune it did 438 wheel hp which if you were measuring by the way they did in the 70s would be north of 500. it would eat the chevelle for lunch. and its juust in the middle of the line up today. by the way my wife got 26mpg on a trip to MN.

Buddy has a hellcat red eye. its 797 crank hp and drives like your malibu if you want it too and about tear yuor eyeballs out if you have the nerve and its built so stoutly that it would outlast 3 70 chevelles. its not moms car with a big motor like in the 60s. its built knowing its going to be beat and is about bullet proof as are the zl1 camaro and gt500 mustangs. when i here "who can handle that kind of power" it usually comes from someone who hasnt had there prius or pickup over 70. guys that would pee themselves even riding with me on a backroad. be thankful that technology is here.

look at your pickup a silverado, ram or f150 today would take the lunch money from most gto's or 396 chevelles back in the day. it will get 20mpg on the highway and comfortably pull 9k down the road. hook a 79 1/2 ton up to a 9k trailer and you will be wide open at 55mph, getting MAYBE 5mpg and you will be leaving parts on the road and youd better plan your stops a mile ahead and swap to a 3/4 ton and the only thing you will gain is a few less parts.

now crate engines ? what car guy wouldnt love a classic mustang, camaro ect with o modern 800 hp motor that still gets twice the fuel economy as the original stuffed into a modern chassis with wildwood 6 piston breaks and a transmission and rear end that will easily handle the power with tires that a 60s nascar racer would be jealous of. ive drove hundreds of different cars and trucks and have manty times said to myself "this thing needs more power. i dont rcal ever sayin you need to loose 200 hp. i just wish i was 30 years younger because the real age of the muscle car isnt the 70s its today

[Lloyd Smale]

My best friend in the years after High School had a 70 Cuda with a 340 and a 6 pack.

There was only one other car in the county that could maybe take it.

It was a GTO with a 440. Best of 3 we'd win one, he'd win one, and in the middle of the third he would blow his tranny and be out of commission for 3-6 months while he earned enough to fix it.

I can not imagine needing or wanting more than that.

BTW common thing was sunday afternoon quarter mile races for cases of beer. Tis a wonder any of us lived.

And 3 months before we turned 21 and could drink legally, Minnesota changed the drinking age to 18.
I tried real hard to get my buddy to spend the night with me, or just park it and sleep it off. But no, he had to try to make the 8 miles home. 6 miles of blacktop was no sweat but he rolled it on the gravel, put it into the ditch upside down. Totaled the Cuda. He tried to save the engine but it was never the same after that.

the truth and memories are different. a 340 cuda was a high 14 second car and thats cutting aperfect light and perfect shifts. my chevelle would do high 12s and my 440 gtx mid 13s and my 340 duster which was a couple hundred lbs lighter the a cda would edge it out. the 340 mopars were mid pack cars. most of them sat back and watched while the real muscle cars ran. there also was never a 440 gto. there were 389s, 400s, and 455s most consider the stage3 400s the quickest and the 389s and lower hp 400s were again mid pack 14-15 second cars. 440 is a mopar motor. 90 percent of the gtos and yup that 340 cuda would have there lunch money taken away by a pickup or 6 cyl toyota. the 6 cyl camaros mustangs and challengers kind of ge laughed at today or considered a women's car. but truth be told there quicker then the 340s or the base gtos and 396 chevelles and 351 mach 1s

[Lloyd Smale]

theres some truthful memories

[shooterg]

Imagine if you had a GTO 440 6 pack now! You could sell it and buy a house!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Plymouth GTX was probably intended with the 440 6 pack.Had a Roadrunner with that. GTO - Pontiac did have a tri-power 389 in the golden age of muscle cars . Don't regret not putting the bucks spent on cars a but, although if I'd invested in a 401 earlier, coulda retired earlier . No point in being young and dumb if you don't have fun !

[Lloyd Smale]

It might be fun, but my 400hp v6 f150 gets me in enough trouble.

yup there no joke. i saw on line where they lined up a fancy f150 (not a raptor) and a 700 hp trx ram abd the ford shelby 700 plus hp trucs and that plain jane f150 ran right with the Shelby and the trx never beat it by more then a half a truck and all that f150 had was a dyno tune. i hate me some fords but tha sure impressed me.. my 2020 ram has headers and a tune and i always tell people if i could find a time machine i would even take a new muscle car back to 1970. id take a pickup like ours ango to a body shop and sit a period correct body on it and travel the country getting rich of off gtos 396 chevelles mustangs and camaros. do it in a pickup getting 20mpg with the air on and a stereo that would put ANY home stereo on the planet to shame

[TD1886]

the truth and memories are different. a 340 cuda was a high 14 second car and thats cutting aperfect light and perfect shifts. my chevelle would do high 12s and my 440 gtx mid 13s and my 340 duster which was a couple hundred lbs lighter the a cda would edge it out. the 340 mopars were mid pack cars. most of them sat back and watched while the real muscle cars ran. there also was never a 440 gto. there were 389s, 400s, and 455s most consider the stage3 400s the quickest and the 389s and lower hp 400s were again mid pack 14-15 second cars. 440 is a mopar motor. 90 percent of the gtos and yup that 340 cuda would have there lunch money taken away by a pickup or 6 cyl toyota. the 6 cyl camaros mustangs and challengers kind of ge laughed at today or considered a women's car. but truth be told there quicker then the 340s or the base gtos and 396 chevelles and 351 mach 1s

I remember when Mopar came out with the 340 and Hot Rod magazine did a write up on it how Mopar copied the Chevy small block 327/350 engine and said you could almost swap pistons between the two. 351 Cleveland Ford engines ran pretty good.

[gc45]

I was a teenager in the fifties, one did not need to be rich to have fun with powerful motors or muscle cars clear up to the 70's when the first gas crunch hit. I then got married and bought a Toyota corrola comuter car for work while my hot rod Nova sat in the garage covered over for a long time. I later sold it to a collector sometime in the late 90's.

[Lloyd Smale]

I remember when Mopar came out with the 340 and Hot Rod magazine did a write up on it how Mopar copied the Chevy small block 327/350 engine and said you could almost swap pistons between the two. 351 Cleveland Ford engines ran pretty good.

i guess there both small blocks like the Winsor ford small blocks but thats the only similarity the chev small blocks were hads down the best on friday night

[TD1886]

I was a teenager in the fifties, one did not need to be rich to have fun with powerful motors or muscle cars clear up to the 70's when the first gas crunch hit. I then got married and bought a Toyota corrola comuter car for work while my hot rod Nova sat in the garage covered over for a long time. I later sold it to a collector sometime in the late 90's.

4 speed transmission, Hurst shifter, big cams, aluminum high rise intake, deep rear gears, high compression pistons, 11 eleven inch clutch assembly cost money if you were a teen and not working or early married and the money went toward the family.

[Lloyd Smale]

its come full circle today. you can get a chev camaro lt1 which is a low option ss for 35k and it has 460 hp and will do a low to mid 12 second quarter mile. took a copo or yenko 427 camaro to do that in the 70s and they were 6k when you could buy a 396 for half that. that camaro package down at your chev dealer today is probably the best bang for your dollar EVER in a muscle car. if your a dodge guy a 5.7 rt challenger will run you about the same. it wont beat the camaro but would bury any 340 stock. like i said TODAY IS THE GOLDEN AGE OF MUSCLE CARS. todays cars are scary fast, 70s cars were just scary to drive fast

[TD1886]

its come full circle today. you can get a chev camaro lt1 which is a low option ss for 35k and it has 460 hp and will do a low to mid 12 second quarter mile. took a copo or yenko 427 camaro to do that in the 70s and they were 6k when you could buy a 396 for half that. that camaro package down at your chev dealer today is probably the best bang for your dollar EVER in a muscle car. if your a dodge guy a 5.7 rt challenger will run you about the same. it wont beat the camaro but would bury any 340 stock. like i said TODAY IS THE GOLDEN AGE OF MUSCLE CARS. todays cars are scary fast, 70s cars were just scary to drive fast

Remember Traco Engines? They were painted that awful grey color? I've seen those run in the 10's with 283 cubes. I've seen some dual quad 409 Chevies run pretty darn good too and those were heavy cars they were put in. I had a 65 SS Chevelle. It was supposed to be a pretty light car. Pulled it on the scales with no spare tire and an almost empty gas tank. It was well into the 3000's! My favorite car I owned was a 1965 Impala SS convertible, glass rear window top, 400 hp 409 cube engine with a Weiand aluminun intake marked Weiand on one end and GM on the other end topped with a Daytona 750 AFB four barrel, had an experimental L88 solid lifer cam, 12 to one pistons, 11 inch clutch, Muncie Rock Crusher 4 speed with the Corvette short throw Muncie shifter, 3.73 posi rear end, power steering and brakes, with full instrumentation. Impala convertibles were plenty, but SS ones were extremely rare. The end also had the tall port racing heads. All this from the factory. Wish I had it today. It was a very heavy car, but that 409 made it move pretty fast.

[rbuck351]

I wasn't into cars but I did have a 1970 Kawasaki H1. 13.2 in the quarter miles very consistently. Not too bad for 30 cubic in.

[TD1886]

I wasn't into cars but I did have a 1970 Kawasaki H1. 13.2 in the quarter miles very consistently. Not too bad for 30 cubic in.

I had one of the first 750 Honda Interceptor it did the quarter in 11 point something. It was even faster then I put MAC headers on it. Handle real good too.

[Idaho45guy]

Nobody needs 1000hp, or more than 10 rounds.

The irony is thick in this thread.

[D.Bullets]

just curious: watching the motor trend channel on tv. a lot of the restorations are installing "crate engines" 1000 HP +-. to what purpose is this for, vs. what came standard in the muscle car era ie. 327, 383, 426, 427 cubic in. just what can you do with 1000 hp. in a street car. i do understand that fuel injection makes a much better engine; but why the hp??

My example- A 223 will kill deer so why use a 30-06. Its just a more humane way of driving. I would rather be looking at it than looking for it.

[Lloyd Smale]

Remember Traco Engines? They were painted that awful grey color? I've seen those run in the 10's with 283 cubes. I've seen some dual quad 409 Chevies run pretty darn good too and those were heavy cars they were put in. I had a 65 SS Chevelle. It was supposed to be a pretty light car. Pulled it on the scales with no spare tire and an almost empty gas tank. It was well into the 3000's! My favorite car I owned was a 1965 Impala SS convertible, glass rear window top, 400 hp 409 cube engine with a Weiand aluminun intake marked Weiand on one end and GM on the other end topped with a Daytona 750 AFB four barrel, had an experimental L88 solid lifer cam, 12 to one pistons, 11 inch clutch, Muncie Rock Crusher 4 speed with the Corvette short throw Muncie shifter, 3.73 posi rear end, power steering and brakes, with full instrumentation. Impala convertibles were plenty, but SS ones were extremely rare. The end also had the tall port racing heads. All this from the factory. Wish I had it today. It was a very heavy car, but that 409 made it move pretty fast.

my first car was a 65 impala ss convertible red with white interior with a kind or rare set up. a pretty lame 300 hp 327 but with a 12 bolt rear with 373 gears and a close ratio 4 speed. good story behind it too. we were on dads back porch listening to the tiger game with his neighbor. i just got my license and was looking for a car. somehow that came up in conversation. he looked at me kind of funny and said take a walk with me over to the house. i thought he needed help with something but by the time we got to yhe garage he had taers running down his face he opened the door and there was a cut up car cover on a car. i knew the car was there but when i was younger i didnt pay attention to it. he pulled off the cover and there was a like new ss convertable. he said it was his sons car. he bought it in 65 when he joined the army and was killed in action in 68. he told he just couldn't part with it but some punks broke into his house they destroyed some stuff and stole some things and one thing the did was slice the crap out of the car cover and top. he said its time for it to go.

it only ha 20k on it and other then the top could have passes for new. i asked him what he wanted and he said give me a grand and its your. I told him it was worth more and all he said was have fun with it. i think it cost me 300 to have anew top put on it. it wasnt the fastest car in high school but it was hands down the nicest. it carried the home coming queen in the parade my junior and senior year and my younger sisters junior and senior year. 65s were my third favorite car and that one i had would have been oh so much coller with your 409!!! that said my favorite impala and the only car ever made in america prettier the a 70 ss chevelle is a ss409/409hp bubble top impala. make mine sea mist green. if i won the lotto those would be the first three cars id buy. had the 65 and had the 70ss but tha 61 are things i dream off. thats one sexy old lady that could hold her own in a bar fight

[Lloyd Smale]

I wasn't into cars but I did have a 1970 Kawasaki H1. 13.2 in the quarter miles very consistently. Not too bad for 30 cubic in.

kid in school had one. i drove it quite a bit and it was about like a turbo. very little low end but at about 3k it felt like an afterburner kicked in. cousin had a h2. that thing was scary fast. a 550 today would beat it but they handle so well and the power is about lineal. that 750 was like riding a hand grenade. run it in the quarter you launch at 4k and hope you spin a bit or it will come back over you, the for the first half the quarte youd best be about laying on the bars to keep the front tire from trying to launch into space and for the second half you fight to control the lightfront end and the chassis flex and when you crossed you were fighting the wheel shake they all had at high speeds.

even with there faults the h1 and h2 were about the most fun you could have with your pants on. i often wonder why with 2 stroke technology that we have in snowmobiles and outboards why weve never seen a modern 2 stroke street bike weve talked alot about cars but every kid i knew back then would stop and stare every time those ring ting ring kawasakis would ride by and i saw lots of racers on friday night put there wallet back in there pocket when one arrived.

i still remember one night back then. i wasnt racing yet because that impala wasnt much in a race but there was about 20 cars there and off in the distance we heard what sounded like the demons from hell 'it kept getting closer and louder until we saw a bike coming AT SPEED when it pulled up it was my cousin. he had just put on 3 bigger carbs and a set of tripple expansion chambers with muffler tips that were only 3 inchs long and about as big as a 50 cent piece. everybody stopped racing to check it out. he couldn't find a single race that night. im a harley guy and have been since my first one in 1980. dont have much use for jap bikes but those triple kawasakis even the 350 EARNED cool status

[Lloyd Smale]

My example- A 223 will kill deer so why use a 30-06. Its just a more humane way of driving. I would rather be looking at it than looking for it.

ill give that an amen. ive shot well over a 50 deer in a year for the last 11 years with at least every caliber and have seen deer way out there and kicked my but for having something like a 300bo. i dont recall ever kicking my self in the but because i had a 7mag or 300 wby 0r even my 7stw 6.5x300wby or even my 300 ultra mag. the real big ones might come out to shoot one a year but the 7 mag and 257 wby are probably my most used guns maybe my 06's too. i use smaller guns too but anymore chasing deer that ran off isnt a fun challenge its something i dread!! I chuckle at idiots that think there better hunters or more skilled because they get away with using squirrel rifles. when in fact it shows just the opposite. its about like pulling a 35 foot camper from nc to ca with a prius. you might even get away with it once or twice but it WILL eventually go all kinds of bad. God forbid instead of the prius you use one of those overpowered new diesels with a 1000ft lbs of torque. that wouldnt make a lick of sense.. youd be much cooler in a prius:bigsmyl2:

[MaryB]

I remember when Mopar came out with the 340 and Hot Rod magazine did a write up on it how Mopar copied the Chevy small block 327/350 engine and said you could almost swap pistons between the two. 351 Cleveland Ford engines ran pretty good.

Clevelands were boat anchors, big, heavy... unless you built it with aluminum intake and did other things to lighten the car they were good for burnouts but not all that fast

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Nobody needs 1000hp, or more than 10 rounds.

The irony is thick in this thread.
I don't see any Irony.

Personally I like single shots and six shooters.
For my purposes I don't need more than 10 rds.

:guntootsmiley:

[MaryB]

1980, friend had a KZ1000. I had just finished helping my friend get his 428 70 Mach One put together. Open headers, no hood... took it for a short test drive. Met The KZ at the light, he wanted to race to the next light... he said all he saw was a front tire by his head them we were gone... and that was one of the fastest production bikes that year. 428 was 12:1 compression, race cam, aluminum heads from Ford racing, and a massive shot of nitrous we didn't test until 6 weeks later and had wheelie bars on the car.

That engine was reliable, we went out to Idaho with it and while crossing Montana got several of the wasting natural resources tickets... for doing 140mph in between towns with no other traffic(we slowed down to 60ish for traffic and to speed limit for towns). One of the cops asked for a short ride so I hopped in his cruiser and followed LOL Ahh the good ole days of $5 tickets...

[TD1886]

my first car was a 65 impala ss convertible red with white interior with a kind or rare set up. a pretty lame 300 hp 327 but with a 12 bolt rear with 373 gears and a close ratio 4 speed. good story behind it too. we were on dads back porch listening to the tiger game with his neighbor. i just got my license and was looking for a car. somehow that came up in conversation. he looked at me kind of funny and said take a walk with me over to the house. i thought he needed help with something but by the time we got to yhe garage he had taers running down his face he opened the door and there was a cut up car cover on a car. i knew the car was there but when i was younger i didnt pay attention to it. he pulled off the cover and there was a like new ss convertable. he said it was his sons car. he bought it in 65 when he joined the army and was killed in action in 68. he told he just couldn't part with it but some punks broke into his house they destroyed some stuff and stole some things and one thing the did was slice the crap out of the car cover and top. he said its time for it to go.

it only ha 20k on it and other then the top could have passes for new. i asked him what he wanted and he said give me a grand and its your. I told him it was worth more and all he said was have fun with it. i think it cost me 300 to have anew top put on it. it wasnt the fastest car in high school but it was hands down the nicest. it carried the home coming queen in the parade my junior and senior year and my younger sisters junior and senior year. 65s were my third favorite car and that one i had would have been oh so much coller with your 409!!! that said my favorite impala and the only car ever made in america prettier the a 70 ss chevelle is a ss409/409hp bubble top impala. make mine sea mist green. if i won the lotto those would be the first three cars id buy. had the 65 and had the 70ss but tha 61 are things i dream off. thats one sexy old lady that could hold her own in a bar fight

Gosh! That's such a great story! It really made my day, thanks. My very first car was a 61 Chevy Biscayne two door sedan. It didn't take long for me to shoehorn a HP 327 in and take the 3 speed shifter off the steering wheel and replace it wis a Hurst 3 speed shifter on the floor. It already had 3.70 gears in it and I must have hit the right combo because that car ran way out of it's league.

Yeah, you had better believe I miss that 409 Impala convertable SS. 65 was the last year for the 409 and the 396 made it's debut. You are correct that the 61 Impala was the first 409 and it was also the first SS Impala, not the 62 Impala as so many thing. The Bubble Top was a really cool roof line and one that is said to have the most glass area of any car made. The carried that Bubble Top over the 62 Bel Air, then it was done. I never liked that creased roof line then started in 62 and ran till 64. Little know facts that all the 409 Chevrolets has beefed up frames, speel wheels, larger fuel lines, different rear ends.

[TD1886]

1980, friend had a KZ1000. I had just finished helping my friend get his 428 70 Mach One put together. Open headers, no hood... took it for a short test drive. Met The KZ at the light, he wanted to race to the next light... he said all he saw was a front tire by his head them we were gone... and that was one of the fastest production bikes that year. 428 was 12:1 compression, race cam, aluminum heads from Ford racing, and a massive shot of nitrous we didn't test until 6 weeks later and had wheelie bars on the car.

That engine was reliable, we went out to Idaho with it and while crossing Montana got several of the wasting natural resources tickets... for doing 140mph in between towns with no other traffic(we slowed down to 60ish for traffic and to speed limit for towns). One of the cops asked for a short ride so I hopped in his cruiser and followed LOL Ahh the good ole days of $5 tickets...

Honda V65 Magna
Weirdly, the Guinness Book of Records put forward a totally outlandish machine as the official holder of the 'fastest production bike' title in the 1980s; the Honda V65 Magna (that's the VF1100C in non-American countries).May 2, 2013, but you're right it was very fast.

https://www.visordown.com/features/top-10s/top-10-fastest-production-motorcycles-10-decades-0

Kawasaki of America didn't want to sell the Ninjas, they felt it wasn't right to put a 16-17 year old teen on a bike that like with so much power and speed, but they did!! How about some of those early two stroke Kaws? They were pretty fast too!

[snowwolfe]

My current car has 668 hp. If it had 778 I would enjoy it more:) It averages around 22 mpg and will handle better than any muscle car built in the 60’s or early 70’s and is capable of low 11 second 1/4 runs. Plus can carry 4 adults with ease.

[Lloyd Smale]

Clevelands were boat anchors, big, heavy... unless you built it with aluminum intake and did other things to lighten the car they were good for burnouts but not all that fast

oh but mary im not a ford guy but those 351 Cleavlands with there higher comprssion and huge ports and valves were just a cam swap from eating the small block 351s for lunch. they were just like the 429 boss motors. a monster motor in about every way that they stuck a lame cam in that wouldnt let them go past 500 rpm. spun a bit faster and thoe big pots and valves made power. the biggest joke were the 2 barrel clevelands who ever made the decision to do that should have been fired on the spot. now they were boat anchors. even stock for stock i rarely saw a winsor beat a cleveland 4v.

[Lloyd Smale]

My current car has 668 hp. If it had 778 I would enjoy it more:) It averages around 22 mpg and will handle better than any muscle car built in the 60’s or early 70’s and is capable of low 11 second 1/4 runs. Plus can carry 4 adults with ease.

so what is it?

[TD1886]

oh but mary im not a ford guy but those 351 Cleavlands with there higher comprssion and huge ports and valves were just a cam swap from eating the small block 351s for lunch. they were just like the 429 boss motors. a monster motor in about every way that they stuck a lame cam in that wouldnt let them go past 500 rpm. spun a bit faster and thoe big pots and valves made power. the biggest joke were the 2 barrel clevelands who ever made the decision to do that should have been fired on the spot. now they were boat anchors. even stock for stock i rarely saw a winsor beat a cleveland 4v.

I'm not a Ford person, but will have to admit those 351 Clevelands ran pretty good. The very first year Ford came out with the 302 HP Boss engine it was toted by the auto world as being one of the most radical engines out of dealership. It had some of the largest intake valves ever and a crazy cam. The very next year they detuned it.

[Rickf1985]

theres some truthful memories

I was wondering when someone was going to point that all out! I was a pro racer from 68 up through the late 80's-early 90's and I have seen and heard all the horsepower stories and fantastic (and unobtainable) timeslips. You got a guy here running a 340 Cuda in the 9's at the same time I am running a top alcohol dragster in the low 8's. Must have been one hell of a Cuda!!!!!:razz:

[snowwolfe]

so what is it?

Cadillac CT5 V Blackwing

[imashooter2]

Cadillac CT5 V Blackwing

A few years ago I was in Florida to play some January golf with a good friend and we went to a local drag strip on practice Wednesday. There was a grocery getter Cadillac running 11s on street tires through the exhaust. Quiet, refined… for all I know he had the A/C on. [smilie=l:

[snowwolfe]

I like the “stealth” factor the Blackwing offers. It doesn’t look fast so it flys under the radar. The only people who recognize it are real car guys. The car can also be purchased with a 6 speed manual.

[Lloyd Smale]

Cadillac CT5 V Blackwing

those are bad to the bone

[Lloyd Smale]

A few years ago I was in Florida to play some January golf with a good friend and we went to a local drag strip on practice Wednesday. There was a grocery getter Cadillac running 11s on street tires through the exhaust. Quiet, refined… for all I know he had the A/C on. [smilie=l:
that would be a blackwing

[Lloyd Smale]

I like the “stealth” factor the Blackwing offers. It doesn’t look fast so it flys under the radar. The only people who recognize it are real car guys. The car can also be purchased with a 6 speed manual.

but why would you? i have a 6 speed challenger but would never have bought it new with a stick. you buy a car like that because you want to go fast so why a stick that makes you slower. yup even if you think your a powershifting sob. look at the hell cat, vette ect. you cant even buy them with a stick. same r]for the exotics. find a ferrari or labo or even a top end Porche with a stick. they dont exist. i considered myself pretty good rowing them back in the 70s but a truth many dont want to admit is the sticks were an advantage with a high winding lower torque small block but even then with the bigger motors two identical cars one an auto and one a stick most times the auto was quicker. today sticks are right up there with crank starters and oil lamps for headlights

[snowwolfe]

Lloyd,
Your preaching to the choir here. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I ordered my Blackwing with the A10 and have no regrets. Been shifting gears since getting my license in 1969 and grew tired of it.
Sorry for the upside down photo. It was correct when I loaded it. Click on it and it should be OK.

[Lloyd Smale]

you own a hell of a car!!

[TD1886]

but why would you? i have a 6 speed challenger but would never have bought it new with a stick. you buy a car like that because you want to go fast so why a stick that makes you slower. yup even if you think your a powershifting sob. look at the hell cat, vette ect. you cant even buy them with a stick. same r]for the exotics. find a ferrari or labo or even a top end Porche with a stick. they dont exist. i considered myself pretty good rowing them back in the 70s but a truth many dont want to admit is the sticks were an advantage with a high winding lower torque small block but even then with the bigger motors two identical cars one an auto and one a stick most times the auto was quicker. today sticks are right up there with crank starters and oil lamps for headlights

Lloyd, back in the day of the 4 speed the Hurst V-Gate shifter actually made the stick shift faster then an automatic. I had one in my 61 Impala Bubble Top with a HP 350 backed by a Borg Warner Super T-10 4 speed with that shifter. Many said at the time you can't drive on the street with that shifter, but it was no problem.

[TD1886]

Lloyd,
Your preaching to the choir here. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I ordered my Blackwing with the A10 and have no regrets. Been shifting gears since getting my license in 1969 and grew tired of it.
Sorry for the upside down photo. It was correct when I loaded it. Click on it and it should be OK.

Nice car. I've been driving a stick since 65!

[rbuck351]

Although I'm not a car guy, there is one car from the 60s that is my dream car. That would be the mid 60s 427 side oiler Shelby Cobra. Even a lowly 289 version would do.

[MaryB]

Although I'm not a car guy, there is one car from the 60s that is my dream car. That would be the mid 60s 427 side oiler Shelby Cobra. Even a lowly 289 version would do.

I know 2 twin brothers with FOUR 427 Mustang Mach Ones, a 427 in a Pinto(full on dragster...), and a shelf with 10 spare engines... they have a total of 28 Mustangs... all of them in mint condition!

[TD1886]

I know 2 twin brothers with FOUR 427 Mustang Mach Ones, a 427 in a Pinto(full on dragster...), and a shelf with 10 spare engines... they have a total of 28 Mustangs... all of them in mint condition!

I've heard of and seen some wild engine combo's. Saw an old Renault, not even as big a car as the VW Beetle with a 389 Pontiac nex to the driver. Had a friend while in the service that had a 406 Ford in a MG.

[Lloyd Smale]

Although I'm not a car guy, there is one car from the 60s that is my dream car. That would be the mid 60s 427 side oiler Shelby Cobra. Even a lowly 289 version would do.

if you could afford that you could afford to have someone cast for you and post for you here

[imashooter2]

I've heard of and seen some wild engine combo's. Saw an old Renault, not even as big a car as the VW Beetle with a 389 Pontiac nex to the driver. Had a friend while in the service that had a 406 Ford in a MG.

I saw a 455 Toranado transaxle in the back seat of a Corvair once. Looked like a real white knuckle ride.

[Rickf1985]

I saw a 455 Toranado transaxle in the back seat of a Corvair once. Looked like a real white knuckle ride.

That would be a Kelmark conversion and they were actually quite stable considering it was now a midengined car.

[TD1886]

I saw a 455 Toranado transaxle in the back seat of a Corvair once. Looked like a real white knuckle ride.

I met a guy that put a 327 small block chevy in a bike frame. What a ride.

[rbuck351]

Yeah, if I could afford a real Cobra I wouldn't have to do much of anything myself. Never cared for the mustang though.

[Lloyd Smale]

Yeah, if I could afford a real Cobra I wouldn't have to do much of anything myself. Never cared for the mustang though.

not a ford guy myself. matter of fact the word detest comes to mind. that said id allow a gt 500 (a real gt), boss 429 or a boss 302 or maybe a real nice 69 mach 1 in my garage. cobras too but there shelbys with ford motors not fords with shelby stickers. thing is out of all those the mach 1 is the only one i could afford and it would have to be about given to me because there are just to many cars out there for mustang money that id rather have

[Rickf1985]

I met a guy that put a 327 small block chevy in a bike frame. What a ride.

Look up the Michigan Madman, E J Potter. The first guy to put a V8 on a bike frame.

Years later you have the Boss Hoss, Factory built modified small blocks on bike frames. You can also get one with a 502 big block. I rode one and they are actually pretty nice to ride, torque steer can be a bit excessive. Rear tires need replacing quite often and they pass everything but gas stations. Mileage is not all that bad but you can only put so much gas on a motorcycle.

[rockrat]

The one car from my youth that I never had (was this close!!) was a 71 (preferred) or 72 GTO with a 455 HO.
My sister was looking for a GT500 way back when (60's)but couldn't find one, so settled for a 67 fuelie corvette. She had it for a few years, but after all the tickets and other stuff, dad took it away and sold it. Sis never forgave him for that!!

Friend put a 327 in his CJ5. Scary to ride in that thing!!

[Lloyd Smale]

The one car from my youth that I never had (was this close!!) was a 71 (preferred) or 72 GTO with a 455 HO.
My sister was looking for a GT500 way back when (60's)but couldn't find one, so settled for a 67 fuelie corvette. She had it for a few years, but after all the tickets and other stuff, dad took it away and sold it. Sis never forgave him for that!!

Friend put a 327 in his CJ5. Scary to ride in that thing!!

we called them the big scoop goats. i liked them myself but my favorite gto's were the judges. a gto probably sparked my love for muscle. my dad was never into cars but he had a buddy who was. he owned a beautiful 64 gto that he took the 389 out of (it was still sitting in his garage. he took a 421 built it and put tri power on it. one day dad and i stopped over and i asked if i could sit in it. he said ill do better then that. hop in and ill take you 4for a ride. he ran it hard threw the gears and i swear i lost my virginity to that car at 13 years old and the one at 16 didnt count!! he still had it when i graduated and went in the service. couple years later i was home on leave and dad told me frank had died. i asked him where the car was and he told me his wife and daughter moved down south only a month after he died and dad didnt have a clue what they did with the car. sucked having a dad that want into cars!!

[popper]

Tried the VF750F 'Intercepter' but feet didn't hit the ground. Limited to 750CC by Gov.
Never owned a hot rod auto but worked on several as a kid. My experience with 100$ a month insurance killed that.
Leaded gas didn't cause that much pollution but did coat the valves so the lasted longer. Not nearly as hazardous as the MTFE. And the oil companies knew it! Easy/cheap way to get rid of it from oil.

[TD1886]

not a ford guy myself. matter of fact the word detest comes to mind. that said id allow a gt 500 (a real gt), boss 429 or a boss 302 or maybe a real nice 69 mach 1 in my garage. cobras too but there shelbys with ford motors not fords with shelby stickers. thing is out of all those the mach 1 is the only one i could afford and it would have to be about given to me because there are just to many cars out there for mustang money that id rather have

Wasn't so much the car, well it wasn't the car, it was Henry Ford himself. He was a friend of Hitler and I believe he was Anti-Semitic. He was the last auto maker to cave into the Union. It's not clear if his right hand man, the henchman, actually murderes any Union people. He also treated his son like crap. Thus my distaste for Ford, that and it was Chevy's number enemy. Would I mind having an old vintage muscle Ford? Hell yeah.

[Lloyd Smale]

i guess the better question isnt why do we need this power? its how many of you want to go back to the 7os and 80s when 175hp v8s got 10mpg in a short box standard cab pickup that was lighter and no bigger then a mid size truck today. pull your boat or camper with a 175 hp and drum brakes!! NO THANKS

[Rickf1985]

I look back on some of the cars I had and got rid of and I kick myself on a regular basis. Being a semi-pro and then a pro driver I got to drive other peoples "junk", as they said. Most of which I could never afford to buy and definitely not afford to build and repair. I drove drag, dirt oval, SCCA road courses and off road racing. So with all of that I really did not need to have the best of the best. But I had some good ones. A 64 Impala SS with the 365 horse 327 Vette mill. A 71 Chevelle SS with the 402 Big Block. That could have been a 10.5 second car if I could have ever been able to get the power to the ground. I even bought one of my SCCA cars, an 84 Camaro Z28 with a blueprinted 355. That was an interesting one. From the outside it looked like an ordinary car but inside it had the full race cage and belts. In NJ they would not allow it through inspection since they called it an unsafe vehicle!!! I finally took it through special inspection and in order to be able to drive it legally I had to put factory seat belts in it. Amazing.
I look at what they are driving on the street nowadays for these Race Week events and Speed week. 2,000 horsepower alcohol burners running open headers on the street and cops do not say anything? And with todays electronics you can have two tanks, one gas and one alcohol and run gas right up to the staging line and the computer switch's to alcohol and advances the timing 20 degrees in milliseconds. I wish I were driving the cars NOW!!!!!
My daily driver nowadays is a 06 Mustang GT with a measly 600 HP. It never gets used to it's full potential but it is fun for passing once in a while. And yes, it is a 5 speed. Drop it down to 3rd at 55 and trounce on it and it incinerates the tires! Even at 70 I still smile when I do that, it never gets old. Don't smile all that much when I have to replace them but...................

The one car nobody has mentioned is the fastest street car off the line and up to somewhere in the 130-140 range............. The Tesla S. And it does so silently without spinning a tire!! The future is a quiet and boring place.

[SoonerEd]

The crate engines are used a lot because they are cheaper to buy them than you can often build them yourself unless you have access to free parts and do you own machining. The components are well balanced, get excellent mileage for the horse power, they are also reliable. At least that has been my experience with the Chevy LS motors and 502 crate motors. My dad has a 700 HP Hellcat. He's wanting a Demon. I asked him why and he said, "you never can have too much horse power".

[snowwolfe]

The one car nobody has mentioned is the fastest street car off the line and up to somewhere in the 130-140 range............. The Tesla S. And it does so silently without spinning a tire!! The future is a quiet and boring place.

Tesla is no longer the top dog:
https://fortune.com/2023/03/21/dodges-last-gas-powered-muscle-car-will-say-goodbye-as-the-fastest-production-car-on-the-market-automaker-says/#:~:text=The%20last%20gas%2Dpowered%20muscle,the%2 0quickest%20production%20car%20made.

[TD1886]

64 Impala's are rust buckets especially if you live in the salt the road back N. East winter states. My one best friend had one with a 327, four speed, and 4:11 gears. He was sitting at a red light the frame all the sudden busted in multiple place and fell down on the pavement so hard it hurt his neck!! I bought the wife one and that friend told everything that would happen to it, or should I say fall off it, in the sequence they would happen. I never cared for the boxy look they had. I'd pick the 63 over the 64. Didn't care for that creased roofline either. About the only good thing about them is that you could get a 409 in them. How come we don't hear a lot about anyone souping up Chevy 348 engines and the Chevys they were in? I know they had a high compression engine with a big cam and Tri Power. 58's were a big let down, in my book, after the great 55, 56, and 57.

[Rickf1985]

Tesla is no longer the top dog:
https://fortune.com/2023/03/21/dodges-last-gas-powered-muscle-car-will-say-goodbye-as-the-fastest-production-car-on-the-market-automaker-says/#:~:text=The%20last%20gas%2Dpowered%20muscle,the%2 0quickest%20production%20car%20made.

I am talking production car, not some special order car with one seat. And I guarantee you the option for the other seats is one hell of a lot more than one dollar!!! Don't get me wrong, I do NOT like Tesla just because of who owns it but the fact of the matter is that you get a full blown all out luxury car that blows the doors off everything else out there. And something else to note on that Dodge is that the times they quote are for a car with special slicks on a prepped dragstrip. They tell you straight up you can never get those times on the street. The Tesla can get the same times no matter where due to it's all wheel drive and advanced traction control.

[Rickf1985]

64's may be rust buckets now, I had mine in 1972. Now you can buy every single body part you ever need for most every old Chevy out there. Even new replacement frames.

[Lloyd Smale]

I look back on some of the cars I had and got rid of and I kick myself on a regular basis. Being a semi-pro and then a pro driver I got to drive other peoples "junk", as they said. Most of which I could never afford to buy and definitely not afford to build and repair. I drove drag, dirt oval, SCCA road courses and off road racing. So with all of that I really did not need to have the best of the best. But I had some good ones. A 64 Impala SS with the 365 horse 327 Vette mill. A 71 Chevelle SS with the 402 Big Block. That could have been a 10.5 second car if I could have ever been able to get the power to the ground. I even bought one of my SCCA cars, an 84 Camaro Z28 with a blueprinted 355. That was an interesting one. From the outside it looked like an ordinary car but inside it had the full race cage and belts. In NJ they would not allow it through inspection since they called it an unsafe vehicle!!! I finally took it through special inspection and in order to be able to drive it legally I had to put factory seat belts in it. Amazing.
I look at what they are driving on the street nowadays for these Race Week events and Speed week. 2,000 horsepower alcohol burners running open headers on the street and cops do not say anything? And with todays electronics you can have two tanks, one gas and one alcohol and run gas right up to the staging line and the computer switch's to alcohol and advances the timing 20 degrees in milliseconds. I wish I were driving the cars NOW!!!!!
My daily driver nowadays is a 06 Mustang GT with a measly 600 HP. It never gets used to it's full potential but it is fun for passing once in a while. And yes, it is a 5 speed. Drop it down to 3rd at 55 and trounce on it and it incinerates the tires! Even at 70 I still smile when I do that, it never gets old. Don't smile all that much when I have to replace them but...................

The one car nobody has mentioned is the fastest street car off the line and up to somewhere in the 130-140 range............. The Tesla S. And it does so silently without spinning a tire!! The future is a quiet and boring place.

no real car guy cares about a singer sewing machine with wheels that hum's[smilie=l:

[Lloyd Smale]

The crate engines are used a lot because they are cheaper to buy them than you can often build them yourself unless you have access to free parts and do you own machining. The components are well balanced, get excellent mileage for the horse power, they are also reliable. At least that has been my experience with the Chevy LS motors and 502 crate motors. My dad has a 700 HP Hellcat. He's wanting a Viper. I asked him why and he said, "you never can have too much horse power".hellcat has more hp then a viper. red eye hellcat even more, superstock and demons more yet and talk of a 1000hp special addition in the works. base hellcat will run with and probably take a viper in a straight line but it reverses if theres even a slight turn in the road. i never warmed up to vipers (other then the viper powered srt10 pickups that were very cool) they to me look like a mix of the old shelbys and the early 60s vettes that someone stretched like taffy. for the money a z06 vette is much more car in every catagory. ive beet a few vipers with my 2007 c6 zo6. it had only 505 hp but made use of it. a c7 with 650 would handly take one. dont know about the new c8 na motored z06. from what ive heard it was the fastest yet. should have kept that c6z. last real drivers vette. manual only and no electronic nannies of any kind. just a big torquey na motor in a light body with big brakes. about as close to an adult racing cart as was ever made. thing pulled down mid 11s like a hellcat but drive it 70 down the road and ive seen 30mpg. wife wanted something with a useable back seat so we sold it and bought the challenger but i dont think anyones been in the back seat in the 4 years weve had it. that said i do like this challenger and the wife loves it and said if i get something else this one stays. guess i can live with that:bigsmyl2:

[MaryB]

The crate engines are used a lot because they are cheaper to buy them than you can often build them yourself unless you have access to free parts and do you own machining. The components are well balanced, get excellent mileage for the horse power, they are also reliable. At least that has been my experience with the Chevy LS motors and 502 crate motors. My dad has a 700 HP Hellcat. He's wanting a Viper. I asked him why and he said, "you never can have too much horse power".

One of my bosses had a Viper. He asked me to make a parts run one day and I told him all the shop trucks were out. He tossed me the keys to his Viper and said keep it in 2nd gear and under 60mph.... and he wasn't kidding! Thing was a beast!

[MaryB]

I am talking production car, not some special order car with one seat. And I guarantee you the option for the other seats is one hell of a lot more than one dollar!!! Don't get me wrong, I do NOT like Tesla just because of who owns it but the fact of the matter is that you get a full blown all out luxury car that blows the doors off everything else out there. And something else to note on that Dodge is that the times they quote are for a car with special slicks on a prepped dragstrip. They tell you straight up you can never get those times on the street. The Tesla can get the same times no matter where due to it's all wheel drive and advanced traction control.

The Dodges all have traction control too, standard equipment. Even my 2017 Escape has it. Escape has the same HP my old F150 had and the pickup would roast the wheels thru 3 gears. The Escape won't even chirp them, just pushes you back in the seat... even on snow it is hard to get tire spin!

[Lloyd Smale]

One of my bosses had a Viper. He asked me to make a parts run one day and I told him all the shop trucks were out. He tossed me the keys to his Viper and said keep it in 2nd gear and under 60mph.... and he wasn't kidding! Thing was a beast!

i drove a couple of them. sure wont say there not fast. but just not my cup of tea and they sound like a fed ex truck with a leaky muffler or two suburu's racing with those god awful 4 in exhausts. buddys got a ram srt10 and even with long tube headers and a cat back it sounds like crap. first few years were terrible. tops that barely slowed down the rain and side pipes that would bake you out of them on a hot day and burn your legs getting out.

[Rickf1985]

I drove one at Road America, which I think is one of the best road race tracks in America. The owner usually had me driving Corvettes or Camaros so this took me by surprise. It was not in the racing class due to engine size but they have open classes where you can race what you brought on the track for a few laps. the regulars and high dollar racers get a lot more laps. So I had most of the day to play with this thing. He wanted a full written report on what I thought of it. That is the price you pay for getting paid to do what you love!! The car was definitely fast, not fast enough to beat the Vettes and Camaros and Mustangs. It is a heavy car and handling is "different". It is not bad, it is just different. Most of that is die to the monstrous torque the engine puts out at relatively low rpm. Where I am usually rolling into the throttle halfway through the turn and I am at full throttle as I exit the turn this thing is drifting two thirds through! That takes a lot of getting used to. What I found was because I could not come out of the turns as fast as I normally would I was trying to make it up in the straight which it did quite well but then you had to haul it down going into the next turn and as I said it is a heavy car and if you are coming into a hairpin you are going from150 to 40 in a really short space. I think that is why they never really took off in road racing, Too much of a change I never drove it on the street but talking to a lot of people that have them they are a blast for drifting and burnouts in driving style to make it work. Basically they are good for turning good tires into bad tires very quickly.
But I saw in Haggerty I think it was there is a guy who has 25 or 30 of them. Every color of every model made for every year it was made!! Now THAT is dedication to a car, AND a LOT of disposable income.

This is the guy I was talking about above.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/market-trends/valuation/dodge-viper-crazy-collector-23-bill-blewett/

But I found this one while looking for that article I found this one, 80 Vipers! And all driven regularly.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4286448/Texas-couple-owns-world-s-largest-Dodge-Viper-collection.html

[Tazman1602]

LOL! I've replaced more carrier bearings than you could count with an abacus. 8-)

…. I also, you should have been around big trucks with Kingpins back in the day…LOL

ART

[SoonerEd]

I had a typo...I meant Demon��

[Lloyd Smale]

I drove one at Road America, which I think is one of the best road race tracks in America. The owner usually had me driving Corvettes or Camaros so this took me by surprise. It was not in the racing class due to engine size but they have open classes where you can race what you brought on the track for a few laps. the regulars and high dollar racers get a lot more laps. So I had most of the day to play with this thing. He wanted a full written report on what I thought of it. That is the price you pay for getting paid to do what you love!! The car was definitely fast, not fast enough to beat the Vettes and Camaros and Mustangs. It is a heavy car and handling is "different". It is not bad, it is just different. Most of that is die to the monstrous torque the engine puts out at relatively low rpm. Where I am usually rolling into the throttle halfway through the turn and I am at full throttle as I exit the turn this thing is drifting two thirds through! That takes a lot of getting used to. What I found was because I could not come out of the turns as fast as I normally would I was trying to make it up in the straight which it did quite well but then you had to haul it down going into the next turn and as I said it is a heavy car and if you are coming into a hairpin you are going from150 to 40 in a really short space. I think that is why they never really took off in road racing, Too much of a change I never drove it on the street but talking to a lot of people that have them they are a blast for drifting and burnouts in driving style to make it work. Basically they are good for turning good tires into bad tires very quickly.
But I saw in Haggerty I think it was there is a guy who has 25 or 30 of them. Every color of every model made for every year it was made!! Now THAT is dedication to a car, AND a LOT of disposable income.

This is the guy I was talking about above.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/market-trends/valuation/dodge-viper-crazy-collector-23-bill-blewett/

But I found this one while looking for that article I found this one, 80 Vipers! And all driven regularly.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4286448/Texas-couple-owns-world-s-largest-Dodge-Viper-collection.html
one good thing about them was like my c6 z06 they didnt (at least the older ones) have all the granny traction and stability control bs. it was controled by something between your ears

[Rickf1985]

This one was a 92 or 93 and I don't remember any traction controls. If they were there they were disabled. Traction controls are the only reason you are able to get super high horsepower cars and drive them on the street. Traction controls are also why modern drag cars can turn such low times. Watch these guys programming there computers some time. It is amazing to watch, they can control the power to the ground through the timing, boost controls, transmission torque converter, throttle control. All to perfectly match the track with the driver just flat footing the pedal before the lights even come down. We did all of this wat back when with our ears and foot. And experience.

[Lloyd Smale]

and we won races not our car or our tuner
We did all of this wat back when with our ears and foot. And experience.

[Rickf1985]

Or lost. LOL. Amen to that.

[MaryB]

Friend of mine could set Ford timing by ear... he won a lot of races...

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Since we have a bunch of gear heads having a conversation here, I have a question.
(first, I am not a gearhead)

Back in the Day, I inherited a stock 71 olds with a 455 CI engine, the air cleaner cover said 455 Rocket.
since then, I've seen other Oldsmobiles of that era with the moniker 350 Rocket.

So, the question is, Was the name Rocket just a marketing thing, or was there something special/unique to the Rocket over other standard GM engines?

[skeettx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGqfOa6tmC8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGqfOa6tmC8

Thanks for the info, both link were great...but I especially liked the Vintage video Road Test.

My fave part of the video was 3:40 and on.
Mentioning, "Camber compensation system which helps with high speed cornering and minimizing the effects of heavy cross winds on the highway"
...LOL, I don't recall heavy cross winds effecting my 4300 pound Boat ;) although, maybe a little bit, once I got over 90 mph?

[Lloyd Smale]

back in the day i had buddys who would tell you the rocket 350 was a better motor then the small block chev and its only real downfall was lack of aftermarket support. if you could go back in time with a bunch on nitrous it would be one of the best motors to use LOTS on.

[Rickf1985]

In the 50's the Olds was THE motor to use in hot rods. I am not, and never was, an Oldsmobile fan so I know little about them but I do know some of the hot rods I have worked on in my shop with those mills in them ran very well. Then again, so did flat head Fords.

[.429&H110]

A bit of thread drift
As a garage project in the middle of Alaska
a crate 302 with a marine cam spinning a Hamilton jet
will make an old river boat fly.
The price is right, and everybody has parts.

[MaryB]

My first car was an 1969 Olds Delta 88 4 door hard top... 455 4 barrel 8mpg gas pig! And tire melter!!! Absolutely slow in a race... but it could do block long burnouts! I told dad I wanted a car, he said go buy your own. So I did... he regretted it... complained the street in front of the house looked like a drag strip launch pad...

[Idaho45guy]

I've had a lot of 60's and 70's muscle cars over the years.

My fastest car ever was a `65 GTO that I paid $1700 for in 1987. The factory 389 V8 was replaced with a Pontiac 428 that had been rebuilt with 10.5:1 pistons, an Isky "Fireball" cam, headers, Edelbrock Torker manifold, Holley "Double-pumper" 850 carb, and upgraded ignition. It had a Muncie M-22 4spd and 4.11 gears. It was a low 11's car in the 1/4-mile.

Never put it on a dyno, but the 428 was factory-rated at 390hp. With the mods done and the 1/4-mile times, we figured it was around 500hp.

314529

At one time, I really wanted to find an old 70's Dodge Ramcharger 2wd with the removable top and hot rod it. I learned of a very impressive motor that was relatively cheap to build.

The motor is the 452 Stroker. You take a Plymouth 400 big block and install a 440 crankshaft, bore it .030, and you get 452 ci. It's reportedly a great combo with lots of torque and great mid-range power.

But, those old Ramchargers are so rare now, I'd hate to cut one up. But, a shortbed W100 pickup from the 70's would be almost as cool.

314530

[Lloyd Smale]

must have been a hell of alot more then 500 crank hp. it would take north of 700 crank hp or over 600 wheel hp to push a gto to even mid 11s and even then back in the day it would have about had to have been changed to ladder bars and slicks. my gtx was rated at 375 hp and ran mid 14s. my ls6 chevelle stock was 450 hp and ran mid 13s and with headers uncapped and slicks did a best of 13 flat which is about identical to what my 2011 475hp 392 challenger will do. even getting that one to low 12s would require a supercharger and at least another 100 hp or about 600 crank hp or 500 wheel. a hellcat with 707 hp will in the real world run mid 11s a redeye hellcat with 800hp will run low 11s. honestly when i raced a lot back in the early 70s i can probably count on one hand the number of cars i saw break into the 11s that didnt need a trailer to get a 100 miles home. keep in mind that all out race pro stock cars at that time were running 10s'

i had a 70 ramcharger (the real blazer style ramcharger) with a factory 440. it was alot of fun. it could pound blazers broncos and the pickups of the day but fast? not really. buddy bought a new 74 z28 camaro and by then the camaro glory was over. he outran me a number of times in the quarter mile on the street. never got a timeslip with it but im sure it was somewhere in the 15s which was FAST for a trck then but my ram would absolutely destroy it. buddy had the coolest truck around back then. he bought my 77 chev 2x4 black short box stepside from me. it had a peppy built 350 in it and already had a dana 44 with 410s and a detroit locker. he bought a 427 tri power motor that came out of a wrecked 67 vette from another one of our buddys and the 3 of us slapped it together. that thing was a real sleeper. only problem was launching it. it either it went up in a cloud of smoke or when we ran slicks even with traction bars you had to baby it off the line or you would get axle wrap and massive wheel hop. even babying it off the line it took the lunch money from a lot of muscle cars. that's one old truck id love to have back but honestly it probably could run with some of the ls powered old trucks ive seen. but that thing was about quiet and delicate as a bazooka

[Idaho45guy]

must have been a hell of alot more then 500 crank hp. it would take north of 700 crank hp or over 600 wheel hp to push a gto to even mid 11s and even then back in the day it would have about had to have been changed to ladder bars and slicks.

314532

[Rickf1985]

You know what that GTO would be worth now if it still had the 389 in it? Easy 6 figures!! My neighbor has a GOT Judge, a 1968 Judge. Think about that for a minute all of you Pontiac fans. The Judge did not officially come out until 69. Her husband bought the car brand new so it is a one owner car and she even has the special papers showing it was special pre sale build. She called me last year not too long after her husband passed and told me to come over as I would love this. A big time car guy came over with a suitcase full of cash wanting to buy the car. She turned him down. She is a very smart cookie and knows what the car is worth and that 1.2 mil in the large suitcase was not even close!!!! Now I have been lucky enough to work on some very high dollar cars for some VERY high dollar clients so I have gotten to see a lot of cash float around in my time. Unfortunately not in my direction but I have watched cars be sold in the same garage I was working in for many hundreds of thousands without a bat of an eye. This was probably the most cash I have ever seen in one box at one time. How many of you guys would have turned it down? Keep in mind that this car is a 100% restored original car.

[TD1886]

must have been a hell of alot more then 500 crank hp. it would take north of 700 crank hp or over 600 wheel hp to push a gto to even mid 11s and even then back in the day it would have about had to have been changed to ladder bars and slicks. my gtx was rated at 375 hp and ran mid 14s. my ls6 chevelle stock was 450 hp and ran mid 13s and with headers uncapped and slicks did a best of 13 flat which is about identical to what my 2011 475hp 392 challenger will do. even getting that one to low 12s would require a supercharger and at least another 100 hp or about 600 crank hp or 500 wheel. a hellcat with 707 hp will in the real world run mid 11s a redeye hellcat with 800hp will run low 11s. honestly when i raced a lot back in the early 70s i can probably count on one hand the number of cars i saw break into the 11s that didnt need a trailer to get a 100 miles home. keep in mind that all out race pro stock cars at that time were running 10s'

i had a 70 ramcharger (the real blazer style ramcharger) with a factory 440. it was alot of fun. it could pound blazers broncos and the pickups of the day but fast? not really. buddy bought a new 74 z28 camaro and by then the camaro glory was over. he outran me a number of times in the quarter mile on the street. never got a timeslip with it but im sure it was somewhere in the 15s which was FAST for a trck then but my ram would absolutely destroy it. buddy had the coolest truck around back then. he bought my 77 chev 2x4 black short box stepside from me. it had a peppy built 350 in it and already had a dana 44 with 410s and a detroit locker. he bought a 427 tri power motor that came out of a wrecked 67 vette from another one of our buddys and the 3 of us slapped it together. that thing was a real sleeper. only problem was launching it. it either it went up in a cloud of smoke or when we ran slicks even with traction bars you had to baby it off the line or you would get axle wrap and massive wheel hop. even babying it off the line it took the lunch money from a lot of muscle cars. that's one old truck id love to have back but honestly it probably could run with some of the ls powered old trucks ive seen. but that thing was about quiet and delicate as a bazooka

I knew a guy that ordered a special pickup truck from Chevy back in middle or late 60's. It had a 375 HP 396 in it with 4:10 gears. Can't remember the tranny. The interior was diamond pleated leather and the rear windows were diamonds. He waited a long time for it and when he got only kept it for a few months and sold it because he said it was undriveable, especially in the rain. The back end broke loose all the time at just a touch of the gas pedal. I didn't know Chevy would do orders like that, or if I believed the story. Yeah the back end would spin out easy on a pickup, what do you guys think?

[TD1886]

You know what that GTO would be worth now if it still had the 389 in it? Easy 6 figures!! My neighbor has a GOT Judge, a 1968 Judge. Think about that for a minute all of you Pontiac fans. The Judge did not officially come out until 69. Her husband bought the car brand new so it is a one owner car and she even has the special papers showing it was special pre sale build. She called me last year not too long after her husband passed and told me to come over as I would love this. A big time car guy came over with a suitcase full of cash wanting to buy the car. She turned him down. She is a very smart cookie and knows what the car is worth and that 1.2 mil in the large suitcase was not even close!!!! Now I have been lucky enough to work on some very high dollar cars for some VERY high dollar clients so I have gotten to see a lot of cash float around in my time. Unfortunately not in my direction but I have watched cars be sold in the same garage I was working in for many hundreds of thousands without a bat of an eye. This was probably the most cash I have ever seen in one box at one time. How many of you guys would have turned it down? Keep in mind that this car is a 100% restored original car.

You sure? I watch both those car auction shows on satellite TV, the one is in Scottsdale, AZ, the other I can't remember where it's held. Very few cars go make the high six digits and when they do they are very very rare. I'd like to see what that 1965 Impala Convertible SS with the hypo 409 in it with the racing tall port heads, GM/Wieand manifold, 750 Dayton AFB carb, 11 inch clutch, M22 rockcrusher 4 speed with Corvette short throw shifter, 3:73 posi traction, and full instrumentation, plus power all the ways around would go for today. It was in mint shape too when I bought it. All white with red bucket interior, and the convertible top had the Herculian glass back window, not that crappy plastic thing. It had the high compression and was running an L88 experiemental solid lifter cam. Blew it up!!! Build a build to the hilt 327 for it, never ran like that 409 did. I still have one of the TRW/GM pistons from it for a momento. I saw those pistons go for quite a bit on Ebay. I remember I was selling parts from the engine after it blew and this teen bopper was building a hypo 348 for his 55 Chevy. He bougth the head. I asked if he wanted the special intake and he said no. Couple days later he was back and was really stressed out if I still had the intake. I said I did, but why did he want it now. He said when he and his dad put that 4 barrel cast 348 manifold on it that even the outer edges of the manifold didn't cover all the intake ports. Yeah, cause my 409 had the racing heads with the tall ports. BTW way what happen was the engine sucked number 6 intake valve and blew up quite impressive. Wasn't racing, was out on date and was just turning a sharp right hand turn and shifted second gear up to 3000 rpm and BOOM! Nothing impressive, didn't know except all the lights came on the dash as the engine went dead. Pulled over to the side of the road and popped the hood and saw part of the paper/metal head gasket sticking out a little between the head and block. Aw hell I though it just blew a head gasket. When I was tearing her down and I pulled the intake off her and there was a hole in lifter valley you could have stuck a large grapefriut in that I knew I was screwed. Too late, but an other fellow that raced them told my best friend that if you run it hard, after the third time pull your valve pan covers and check your valve stem keepers. Those valves were big and heavy in 409 and the valves would float and the keepers would come up a notch. On the last time they came off some of the valves. The one that came off was on an intake, the biggest heaviest valve in the engine. Don't know if that's all true or not.

[MaryB]

314532

That is figuring you get ALL the power to the track and no wheel spin anywhere...

My Gremlin weighed 2,000 pounds, 750 rear wheel HP without the nitrous(only used for grudge races and required a tune change), it was a mid to low 9's car, and while I occasionally drove it on the street it wasn't a street car. It was to hard to control it in slow traffic... wheel spin was all to easy coming off stops and that was on street legal slicks. Race days it was towed to the track. I drove it to our local races but had a friend in front of me to keep cars away so I had space coming off a stop... 30mph was instant LOL Local races were a 5 mile drive on county roads with minimal traffic.

[TD1886]

That is figuring you get ALL the power to the track and no wheel spin anywhere...

My Gremlin weighed 2,000 pounds, 750 rear wheel HP without the nitrous(only used for grudge races and required a tune change), it was a mid to low 9's car, and while I occasionally drove it on the street it wasn't a street car. It was to hard to control it in slow traffic... wheel spin was all to easy coming off stops and that was on street legal slicks. Race days it was towed to the track. I drove it to our local races but had a friend in front of me to keep cars away so I had space coming off a stop... 30mph was instant LOL Local races were a 5 mile drive on county roads with minimal traffic.

Did you see the Road Kill show where they shoved a 440 in a Gremlin?

[Lloyd Smale]

314532

there talking 550 WHEEL HORSEPOWER which would mean 650 crank hp. probably even more drivetrain loss in an old car and them your only in the high 11s tack on another 100-150 to get it to low 11s. it takes a bit over 700 WHEEL HP to get a redeye hellcat or supper stock hellcat that might tickle high 10s with tires mostly because the suspension was designed to transferer weight and because of it it isn't really a good street car and it also has line lock. dont really need a quarter mile calculator because it only factors hp and weight and anyone that has raced knows car setup in just as important as either of those. you can put 1500 hp in a 3000 lb car. then have an open rear a road race suspension and poor tires and get your but handed to you with a well set up car with a third the power

[Lloyd Smale]

You sure? I watch both those car auction shows on satellite TV, the one is in Scottsdale, AZ, the other I can't remember where it's held. Very few cars go make the high six digits and when they do they are very very rare. I'd like to see what that 1965 Impala Convertible SS with the hypo 409 in it with the racing tall port heads, GM/Wieand manifold, 750 Dayton AFB carb, 11 inch clutch, M22 rockcrusher 4 speed with Corvette short throw shifter, 3:73 posi traction, and full instrumentation, plus power all the ways around would go for today. It was in mint shape too when I bought it. All white with red bucket interior, and the convertible top had the Herculian glass back window, not that crappy plastic thing. It had the high compression and was running an L88 experiemental solid lifter cam. Blew it up!!! Build a build to the hilt 327 for it, never ran like that 409 did. I still have one of the TRW/GM pistons from it for a momento. I saw those pistons go for quite a bit on Ebay. I remember I was selling parts from the engine after it blew and this teen bopper was building a hypo 348 for his 55 Chevy. He bougth the head. I asked if he wanted the special intake and he said no. Couple days later he was back and was really stressed out if I still had the intake. I said I did, but why did he want it now. He said when he and his dad put that 4 barrel cast 348 manifold on it that even the outer edges of the manifold didn't cover all the intake ports. Yeah, cause my 409 had the racing heads with the tall ports. BTW way what happen was the engine sucked number 6 intake valve and blew up quite impressive. Wasn't racing, was out on date and was just turning a sharp right hand turn and shifted second gear up to 3000 rpm and BOOM! Nothing impressive, didn't know except all the lights came on the dash as the engine went dead. Pulled over to the side of the road and popped the hood and saw part of the paper/metal head gasket sticking out a little between the head and block. Aw hell I though it just blew a head gasket. When I was tearing her down and I pulled the intake off her and there was a hole in lifter valley you could have stuck a large grapefriut in that I knew I was screwed. Too late, but an other fellow that raced them told my best friend that if you run it hard, after the third time pull your valve pan covers and check your valve stem keepers. Those valves were big and heavy in 409 and the valves would float and the keepers would come up a notch. On the last time they came off some of the valves. The one that came off was on an intake, the biggest heaviest valve in the engine. Don't know if that's all true or not.

have to agree. a garden variety 389 goat mint is a 50-75k car. a mint judge might get you into 5 figures but barely. now there are BIG buck cars that might go a million but there the real rare ones like a 71 hemi cuda convertible or maybe a boss 429 or the daytonas and superbirds. there are some rare ones that will go over a 100k like my old ls6 chevelle tri power vettes, any hemi cuda or challenger a road runner hemi will be close too. some oddball stuff like 427 impalas and even 409s. only gtos or 442s ive seen go 5 figures were ram air IV judge convertibles an w30 442 convertibles. biggest regret i have is at a local relatively small car show a guy had a red 70 ls6 chevelle original right down to the two horned air cleaner and exceptional original paint with 60k on it and a one owner car. talked to him and he told me hed part with it for 75k. that was about 6 years ago and prices were down so it was a fair price but not a giveaway. i just didnt have the money but it probably would have been a better investment then gold. I should have found a way. if it happened today id RUN to the bank. but to be realistic my challenger would probably whip it in the quarter. seem to be a few that never actually got a timeslip and unleashing even a 400 hp car in the 70s would leave some memories. todays cars?? id bet my wife could get into the 12s with the challenger with the sun roof open and the stereo plying the eagles so something would feel like the 70s. i could do it eating dairy queen

[Lloyd Smale]

heres a cool car story and reality of a 340 cuda https://www.hagerty.com/media/car-profiles/original-owner-a-young-soldier-buys-his-dream-car-in-a-warzone/?utm_content=MED_UN_NA_EML_UN_DailyDriver_Monday&hashed_email=5e321a4ee1f6275a33a0a9bde04a70837179f 9d7ae6963f2279164843e04a8b5

[MaryB]

Did you see the Road Kill show where they shoved a 440 in a Gremlin?

Yup! Roadkill is one of my favorite car shows! To bad Finnegan is no longer doing it. He hit burnout and wanted more family time.

[Rickf1985]

there talking 550 WHEEL HORSEPOWER which would mean 650 crank hp. probably even more drivetrain loss in an old car and them your only in the high 11s tack on another 100-150 to get it to low 11s. it takes a bit over 700 WHEEL HP to get a redeye hellcat or supper stock hellcat that might tickle high 10s with tires mostly because the suspension was designed to transferer weight and because of it it isn't really a good street car and it also has line lock. dont really need a quarter mile calculator because it only factors hp and weight and anyone that has raced knows car setup in just as important as either of those. you can put 1500 hp in a 3000 lb car. then have an open rear a road race suspension and poor tires and get your but handed to you with a well set up car with a third the power

And I think this originally was in reference to a 65 GTO? That is a barn door you are pushing down the track and that is actually a mathematical formula for that, I do not remember the exact numbers so I will not quote any but over a certain speed you have to figure horsepower in multiples. Not in 5-10 more horsepower but double and then quadruple. And that math has proven to be quite accurate.

Ok, I looked it up. This will make your head hurt but it explains a lot about why some of these claims just ain't happening.

The horsepower , H(s), required for a racecar to overcome wind resistance is given by the function : H(s) = 0.003s^2+0.07s-0.027 , where (s) is the speed of the car in miles per hours.

[TD1886]

And I think this originally was in reference to a 65 GTO? That is a barn door you are pushing down the track and that is actually a mathematical formula for that, I do not remember the exact numbers so I will not quote any but over a certain speed you have to figure horsepower in multiples. Not in 5-10 more horsepower but double and then quadruple. And that math has proven to be quite accurate.

Ok, I looked it up. This will make your head hurt but it explains a lot about why some of these claims just ain't happening.

The horsepower , H(s), required for a racecar to overcome wind resistance is given by the function : H(s) = 0.003s^2+0.07s-0.027 , where (s) is the speed of the car in miles per hours.

This is interesting. Let's take the 65 GTO's cousin the 65 SS Chevelle. It too has a pretty flat front and the car isn't very aerodynamic. With that said there's a race out west somewhere, where they have a road mapped out and it's bases on the fastest time to get to point B from point A. I want to say Nevada. I forget who was racing in it but they beefed up a 65 SS Chevelle. The guy driving had it up to little over 165 mph. He was talking about how the oil temperate went up at that high speed and how much the oil pressure dropped. He talk also about tar strips on the road at normal highway speeds are just blip blip, but at 165 mph they made the front end of the car come up. He though "I bet the engineers that designed the car never imagined it would be doing 165mph. He also wonder if his damn universal U-Joints broke and the drive shaft catapulted him. It was pretty interesting. Yes you need lots more hp to drive at those really high speed while pushing that air damn.

[Rickf1985]

I would have to actually be there and see the radar for myself before i would ever believe a 65 Chevelle going 165. What kind of transmission and gears was he running? Was this fairly recently? If so then running a LS engine at around 8500 rpm you would still have to be pulling 3.73-3.50 gear. And that would be with probably 2,000 plus horsepower. Now here is where the BS meter pegs, the guy builds a car for a max high speed run but does not put race shocks on it to control tire bounce? And no driveshaft loops. Was he also running WalMart special tires? No roll cage? And I am sure the speed was certified by a State Police officer. You would not believe how many times I have heard that one.

[TD1886]

I would have to actually be there and see the radar for myself before i would ever believe a 65 Chevelle going 165. What kind of transmission and gears was he running? Was this fairly recently? If so then running a LS engine at around 8500 rpm you would still have to be pulling 3.73-3.50 gear. And that would be with probably 2,000 plus horsepower. Now here is where the BS meter pegs, the guy builds a car for a max high speed run but does not put race shocks on it to control tire bounce? And no driveshaft loops. Was he also running WalMart special tires? No roll cage? And I am sure the speed was certified by a State Police officer. You would not believe how many times I have heard that one.

Long time ago. I think I say it wasn't a big block. Everything on the car was special and hell even I know you got to have gears down in the 2.? somethings to get that kind of speed. A friend in Germany and have discussed this much. He wanted to run his 73 1/2 Camaro on the autoban and I told him he was going to need a real low gear ratio and horsepower. The guy was just emphazing how tar strips feel at that speed. He name a lot of things like keeping the front in down. I forget what they did about that. Even talked about the air coming through the grille. It was an official race and they had all the instrumentation to get accurate reading.Yeah you definitely not going to get those kind of speed with 3:55's or 3:70. RPM's would be out of sight and no Chevy engine is going to hold together that those rpm's. And that's not counting the big horsepower you need. Back when I was a young fellow my 1st cousin was a State Strooper. He stopped over to the house to question me about what two of his traffic troopers told him patroling a turnpike road at 3am in morning. They said a light blue flash went by and radar read 213 mph. He asked what did I know that could do that on the street. This was waaaaaay before anything like a Viper. I said I needed more info, did they see anything distinquishing? When he said a wedge nose and great big fins on the back witha spoiler. I knew right away what it was and I'll bet you do too!

[TD1886]

This may have been the event. Don't forget this was a road course, not around in ovals like Indy. I didn't say that Chevelle did 165 the whole course, pretty impossible back then.

As an aside my friend in German told me that the Vettes that shipped to Germany had oil coolers. They could do the autoban speed alright, but the oil got mightly hot in a short time as substained speeds. This too was a lot of years ago.

Here's a formula for rpms: MPH x Axle Ratio x 336 -- Divide that number by the Tire Diameter
Here is is for speed: RPM x Tire Diameter -- Divide that number by the Axle Ratio x 336

[TD1886]

Here's more on it. So you can see they have to meet all the rules.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_State_Classic_Challenge

[Rickf1985]

I am familiar with that speed run, I have never been there but I have been to several like it at abandoned airports in the deserts. As I thought, these are NOT factory stock cars in any way, shape or form. They are covered in aero with all kinds of special goodies on them. Did you note the Lingenfelter engine mentioned in Big Red. A 540 CI Donovan aluminum block pushing 800 horse. I guarantee that if you put it on a dyno you would find that figure is very conservative.

[TD1886]

I am familiar with that speed run, I have never been there but I have been to several like it at abandoned airports in the deserts. As I thought, these are NOT factory stock cars in any way, shape or form. They are covered in aero with all kinds of special goodies on them. Did you note the Lingenfelter engine mentioned in Big Red. A 540 CI Donovan aluminum block pushing 800 horse. I guarantee that if you put it on a dyno you would find that figure is very conservative.

If you read the history of it that they have differecnt classes. So it's very likely that some car magazine ran a 65 Chevelle in it's proper class and got the speed they say they did. Remember it didn't do the 165 mph the entire 90 miles.

[snowwolfe]

I must admit, some of you have very "interesting" memories of how fast your old cars would go as far as top speed and 1/4 mile et's. Most of you would be shocked to sit in the front seat of a car that is capable of running low 11's in the quarter. I been around hot rods since the mid 60's and those older cars were not what they are cracked up to be. They didn't handle, and once you got them above 85 or so the front ends would lift. Brakes sucked as did fuel mileage.
Pay attention to what Lloyd has to say. His recollections of older muscle cars, performance, and values are spot on.

[Rickf1985]

Long time ago. I think I say it wasn't a big block. Everything on the car was special and hell even I know you got to have gears down in the 2.? somethings to get that kind of speed. A friend in Germany and have discussed this much. He wanted to run his 73 1/2 Camaro on the autoban and I told him he was going to need a real low gear ratio and horsepower. The guy was just emphazing how tar strips feel at that speed. He name a lot of things like keeping the front in down. I forget what they did about that. Even talked about the air coming through the grille. It was an official race and they had all the instrumentation to get accurate reading.Yeah you definitely not going to get those kind of speed with 3:55's or 3:70. RPM's would be out of sight and no Chevy engine is going to hold together that those rpm's. And that's not counting the big horsepower you need. Back when I was a young fellow my 1st cousin was a State Strooper. He stopped over to the house to question me about what two of his traffic troopers told him patroling a turnpike road at 3am in morning. They said a light blue flash went by and radar read 213 mph. He asked what did I know that could do that on the street. This was waaaaaay before anything like a Viper. I said I needed more info, did they see anything distinquishing? When he said a wedge nose and great big fins on the back witha spoiler. I knew right away what it was and I'll bet you do too!
Ok, enough is enough. The Daytona was all about "aero" and looks. At Talladega in 69 it maxed out at 199.4 and in July 69 it hit 205 under perfect conditions at Chelsea Proving Grounds. Running a highway in middle of the night? No, not perfect and NOT this car. Standard Daytonas were nowhere near that fast. My man, You have simply GOT to get off your internet searches. You are talking to a bunch of guys who were there, we lived this time and these cars. I did it professionally. Cars of the 60's-70's did NOT go 200 mph and they did not run 10 seconds without serious weight reduction and SERIOUS power increases. (Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?). In my business I got to work on some very exotic cars, Know how fast a 1988 4.0L V12 Lamborghini Countach is? 188 mph under perfect conditions. On paper, in real life more like 160. Let's get realistic here, As this thread goes on the same old cars get faster and faster.

[MaryB]

1/4 mile runs and many engine rebuilds are WAYYY different than sustained highways speeds. Friend ran his Mustang up to 140 on the interstate(middle of the night, no traffic) and the front end float was so bad the steering barely did anything... and oil got HOT. Ran that for 20 miles and slowed down to 55 to cool the engine down. And that car was built for drag racing, had a super heavy duty radiator, oil cooler... nowhere near stock... we were on the way to a friends wedding and he wanted to use the Mustang to arrive at the church. Only reason we took that gas guzzler! We did NOT pass a gas station!

[TD1886]

Ok, enough is enough. The Daytona was all about "aero" and looks. At Talladega in 69 it maxed out at 199.4 and in July 69 it hit 205 under perfect conditions at Chelsea Proving Grounds. Running a highway in middle of the night? No, not perfect and NOT this car. Standard Daytonas were nowhere near that fast. My man, You have simply GOT to get off your internet searches. You are talking to a bunch of guys who were there, we lived this time and these cars. I did it professionally. Cars of the 60's-70's did NOT go 200 mph and they did not run 10 seconds without serious weight reduction and SERIOUS power increases. (Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?). In my business I got to work on some very exotic cars, Know how fast a 1988 4.0L V12 Lamborghini Countach is? 188 mph under perfect conditions. On paper, in real life more like 160. Let's get realistic here, As this thread goes on the same old cars get faster and faster.

Who's to say it wasn't instrument or trooper error of what type of device the troopers were monitoring that long stretch of highway?

The primary weakness of VASCAR is that it can only provide an average speed, in contrast to the near-instant speed readout of a Doppler-effect system. Thus, it is possible for a vehicle to be well above the speed limit, then slow to the same amount below the limit for the same period of time, and have a legal speed.

A secondary weakness is that the operator must be able to visually identify the target vehicle and both start and end points, as well as operating the switches at the precise moments necessary.

[Lloyd Smale]

I would have to actually be there and see the radar for myself before i would ever believe a 65 Chevelle going 165. What kind of transmission and gears was he running? Was this fairly recently? If so then running a LS engine at around 8500 rpm you would still have to be pulling 3.73-3.50 gear. And that would be with probably 2,000 plus horsepower. Now here is where the BS meter pegs, the guy builds a car for a max high speed run but does not put race shocks on it to control tire bounce? And no driveshaft loops. Was he also running WalMart special tires? No roll cage? And I am sure the speed was certified by a State Police officer. You would not believe how many times I have heard that one.

if it did it was a complete tube chassis car with nothing 65 chev but the body tin and a modern drive train with double the hp or more then even a 396 65 had. with enough hp you can even make a tank like the hellcat chargers do 200. now to add to ricks bs meter a hellcat will go 50 miles at speed on 20 gallons of gas so if that guy did do it it was either a short a to b or he spent alot of time fueling. i know one thing. if that was a stock body chevelle with the only mod being enough hp the police should have brought him directly to prison. i tickled 170 one time in my c6 zo6. arguably a car capable of doing it safely. did it on a desolate 5 mile straightaway up here in the Toolies that has about zero traffic. it gave me a new respect for nascar drivers going 200 inches away from each other because it took concentration to keep it in two lanes at 170. my challenger would probably do 170 BUT NOT WITH ME IN IT. lots talk the talk. been that way since the first two cars raced. most of it is my buddy said some guy told him that his uncle heard........ or down right lies or to give the benefit of the doubt VERY poor memories

[snowwolfe]

One of my previous cars was a 2013 C6 Corvette. I had a shop add a supercharger to the engine and the dyne showed 600 hp at the rear wheels. It was most likely the quickest car I ever owned and had the top speed to go along with it. Had that car over 150 a few times and it felt rock solid. But you better pick your road correctly because stuff happens fast at those speeds.
Even with wide sticky tires traction was almost impossible to find below 40 mph. When taking off you had to feather the throttle otherwise the tires would go up in smoke. Same thing with my current Blackwing. It may have traction control but the power of the engine will easily overwhelm it at speeds up to 30-35 mph.

[TD1886]

if it did it was a complete tube chassis car with nothing 65 chev but the body tin and a modern drive train with double the hp or more then even a 396 65 had. with enough hp you can even make a tank like the hellcat chargers do 200. now to add to ricks bs meter a hellcat will go 50 miles at speed on 20 gallons of gas so if that guy did do it it was either a short a to b or he spent alot of time fueling. i know one thing. if that was a stock body chevelle with the only mod being enough hp the police should have brought him directly to prison. i tickled 170 one time in my c6 zo6. arguably a car capable of doing it safely. did it on a desolate 5 mile straightaway up here in the Toolies that has about zero traffic. it gave me a new respect for nascar drivers going 200 inches away from each other because it took concentration to keep it in two lanes at 170. my challenger would probably do 170 BUT NOT WITH ME IN IT. lots talk the talk. been that way since the first two cars raced. most of it is my buddy said some guy told him that his uncle heard........ or down right lies or to give the benefit of the doubt VERY poor memories

I agree Lloyd. First let's clear up something that might be clear to some of you. The road was closed for the race. They weren't doing the time race on that road with state troopers being there. I'm sure they had accurate devices to record the times and speed. In that wiki page it states that were were many classes and also that there were maximum speed limits that were check with appropiate speed recording devices. Sure wish I remember where I read that article. Like I said I want to say hot rod magazine. The Chevelle wasn't a plain stock one with just a pumped up engine in it. For one thing they knew they has to have speed rated tires as that was one of the requirements. When he made the statement that hiting tar strip where they fill the cracks in with tar for normal repairs that it was just blip blip as normal highway speeds and at well over 100 mph it was more then just blip blip. It also sounded as though he didn't have an engine oil cooler installed because he mentioned the oil getting pretty hot. I forget what he stated his oil pressure was at the start of the time trial, but I can assure you it wasn't the standard 45 psi for Chevies. I think it said something like 60 or 80 psi, but he did say as he got well into the trials it drops substantially plus the oil temperature went up a good bit. Makes sense. Sounds like he had at least a tachometer, oil pressure gauge, oil temperature, and water temperture gauge. I would bet money he had a stick shift tranny it would have been lighter then an auto. I know he was concerned about the driveshaft and was wondering if he tightened those u-bolt nuts tight!Like I said he didn't do 165 mph from start to end. I'm sure there are sections of that road where that would have been difficult. I noticed on the internet that current over-all average speed was over 200 some mph. That I take to mean like 2022. So we've come a long ways from that 65 Chevelle and the engine technology of that day to what we have today.

When I was in the service there was a bunch of us heading back to base after a long weekend. We were in a bone stock 57 Chevy with a 283 cubic inch engine and had an auto tranny. It was my best friends car and I was driving. Whenever I could I was driving between 80 near 90-100 mph via it's inaccurate speedo's in that day until the water temperatue went up to high, then I'd back off to 80 mph until the temperture came back down, then back up again. I went throught 40 some gallons of gasoline, one tire, and one speeding ticket for $52. We made it back on time.

I had a 65 SS Chevelle with a 327 in it rated at about 300 hp from the factory, 4 speed tranny, and 3:55 posi's. I didn't think it was such a great car. I also thought it was much heavier then everyone in those days said they were. It wasn't fast in racing guys on the street and I got beat quite a bit. I had a 61 Chevy biscagne two door sedan before that. Originally it was a six cylinder with three on the tree and single track 3:70's. What I did was buy a 300 horse 327 out of a wrecked 63 Impala SS and put that in it. I put a hurst three speed shifter on the floor and left the 3:70 gears along. I won quite a few informal street races with car. I wished back then I had a 4 speed, headers, and 4:11's in it. I didn't have the money like many of us. I got 18 miles a gallon out of that car. That 65 Chevelle I got 20 easy.

[Lloyd Smale]

now in both of those cases snowolfe were talking 180+ cars that will do 11s that light vette maybe low 11s because it has the wheel hp of a c7z and they will run low 11s. never tracked my c6 zo6 but it had head work a set of long tubes and a dyno tune. they were suppose to do high 11s stock. mine did 470 to the wheels on a dynojet and after the work 542 so i was still 50hp shy of yours. i know one thing, that car would RIP!! two different hellcats running around locally can give you a description of its tail lights. only car i lost to in a race was a roll race with a widebody redeye. actually beat a c7 zo6 but the guy was a dork and should never have bought a stick. if he had an automatic he would have or at least should have taken my lunch money but after getting pisses and twice demanding a rematch he missed a shift and didnt even stop. hes probably still hiding. that said if i was looking to buy right now it would be a tough choice between a wide body redeye or a c7 zo6 and id leave then box stock cause there almost to much for the street as they come. Like i said we are living today in the real golden age of muscle cars. guy has a good enough credit rating and he can drive away in a monster that will do high 10s and for those who never did it thats take your breath away maybe even make you piss your pants fast if some 340 cuda ore 383 road runner is what you consider fast. take one of them out friday night and keep your money in your pocket when a corola pulls up next to you with a pimple faced kid in it

[snowwolfe]

A current ZL1 Camaro is also a great choice. They have the same engine as the Blackwing and the C7 Z06. I bought mine in 2020, kept it 2 years, and sold it for more than what I paid. Current price on these new is roughly $70K. A true bargain in the sports car world.

[TD1886]

now in both of those cases snowolfe were talking 180+ cars that will do 11s that light vette maybe low 11s because it has the wheel hp of a c7z and they will run low 11s. never tracked my c6 zo6 but it had head work a set of long tubes and a dyno tune. they were suppose to do high 11s stock. mine did 470 to the wheels on a dynojet and after the work 542 so i was still 50hp shy of yours. i know one thing, that car would RIP!! two different hellcats running around locally can give you a description of its tail lights. only car i lost to in a race was a roll race with a widebody redeye. actually beat a c7 zo6 but the guy was a dork and should never have bought a stick. if he had an automatic he would have or at least should have taken my lunch money but after getting pisses and twice demanding a rematch he missed a shift and didnt even stop. hes probably still hiding. that said if i was looking to buy right now it would be a tough choice between a wide body redeye or a c7 zo6 and id leave then box stock cause there almost to much for the street as they come. Like i said we are living today in the real golden age of muscle cars. guy has a good enough credit rating and he can drive away in a monster that will do high 10s and for those who never did it thats take your breath away maybe even make you piss your pants fast if some 340 cuda ore 383 road runner is what you consider fast. take one of them out friday night and keep your money in your pocket when a corola pulls up next to you with a pimple faced kid in it

I want to talk about the automatic and stick shifts. I remember watch a car show and they took a camaro, forget year, put a 454 in it pumped up some, and an automatic tranny. I don't remember the details of what they done to the rest of car, but they ran it with the auto first. They they put a 4 speed in it and mounted a Hurst V-Gate shifter. The V-Gate beat the auto. The one guy FOR the V-Gate said it shifted faster. The other guy asked how did he know that? The said grap a tape measure and follow me. The measured the burn marks from shifting and spaces between the stick shift were shorter. I was impressed the auto chirped burn marks between shift. Now this was a longgggggg time ago Lloyd and I'm sure that wouldn't be the case today.

My son has a 2017 Fiat Spider Abarth. What a cool little car. Don't know if you know, but the Japs built them EXCEPT for the engine which is Fiat's. The automatic tranny is a CVT transmission from Asin which Toyata own. It has a turbo on it. For a four cylinder it's snappy little car and gets super great mileage. I told him when I ride with him it's like riding in a F16 figther plane. Takes me few mins to get in and out of it, I can't stretch my legs straight out when in the passenger seat, and it's NOISEY thus the F16 comment and it's because the air noise going over the convertible top. The car is LOADED! All power, paddle shifters, two or more modes for the tranny, power windows, defogger on rear glass window, leather interior, headlight squirters, you name it and it has it. Really nice little cars. Yeah long gone are the days Lloyd when you open the hood and all that is under it is the engine, battery, and radiator. Drop a wrench when you're working on them and falls straight to the ground.

[Lloyd Smale]

A current ZL1 Camaro is also a great choice. They have the same engine as the Blackwing and the C7 Z06. I bought mine in 2020, kept it 2 years, and sold it for more than what I paid. Current price on these new is roughly $70K. A true bargain in the sports car world.

yup as quick as a base hellcat in a straight line and will run with vettes porches and ferraris in the twistys. might just be the best bang for the buck in a performance car ever!!

[Lloyd Smale]

I want to talk about the automatic and stick shifts. I remember watch a car show and they took a camaro, forget year, put a 454 in it pumped up some, and an automatic tranny. I don't remember the details of what they done to the rest of car, but they ran it with the auto first. They they put a 4 speed in it and mounted a Hurst V-Gate shifter. The V-Gate beat the auto. The one guy FOR the V-Gate said it shifted faster. The other guy asked how did he know that? The said grap a tape measure and follow me. The measured the burn marks from shifting and spaces between the stick shift were shorter. I was impressed the auto chirped burn marks between shift. Now this was a longgggggg time ago Lloyd and I'm sure that wouldn't be the case today.

My son has a 2017 Fiat Spider Abarth. What a cool little car. Don't know if you know, but the Japs built them EXCEPT for the engine which is Fiat's. The automatic tranny is a CVT transmission from Asin which Toyata own. It has a turbo on it. For a four cylinder it's snappy little car and gets super great mileage. I told him when I ride with him it's like riding in a F16 figther plane. Takes me few mins to get in and out of it, I can't stretch my legs straight out when in the passenger seat, and it's NOISEY thus the F16 comment and it's because the air noise going over the convertible top. The car is LOADED! All power, paddle shifters, two or more modes for the tranny, power windows, defogger on rear glass window, leather interior, headlight squirters, you name it and it has it. Really nice little cars. Yeah long gone are the days Lloyd when you open the hood and all that is under it is the engine, battery, and radiator. Drop a wrench when you're working on them and falls straight to the ground.

truth be told even in the 70s unless you were a pro racer the autos were quicker on the street. two cars that got me more then i got them was a stage one buick GS and an 455 olds w30 the buick goy me about all the time and i will fess up right here that the guys wife drove uit most nights. everyone cringed when thet showed up. you about knew youd get beat but the only thing worse was chickening out racing a girl. you can talk ls6s you can talk hemis but the true king of the street in the 70s was the gs buick. 500fbs of torque and you didnt even have to brake tourqe them. just mash the gas and go

[Lloyd Smale]

God talking about cars never gets old. used to say it was girls and cars but cars never got old to me and the girls attracted to me did. God to be 25 today!! dont know if i would make to 30 but what a ride. bet ya mary sent more then a few boyys running with there tails tucked

[TD1886]

God talking about cars never gets old. used to say it was girls and cars but cars never got old to me and the girls attracted to me did. God to be 25 today!! dont know if i would make to 30 but what a ride. bet ya mary sent more then a few boyys running with there tails tucked

Geesh Lloyd, you're bringing back memories. My dad did have a garage, so I worked on my Chevy out in front of the house. One day I was under that 61 Biscayne working on it and my dad was standing on the porch shaking his head. I said "What?" He said girls and four barrel carburaters. You tell me how good Chevy's are and you're working on it all the time. I said "Dad, I'm working on it not because it's broke, but to make it go faster. You forgot guns. Girls, cars, and guns." He laughed. My car years began in the 60's. I don't remember the two cars you talked about being around in my day, or at least my area. For Fords it was the 289's, 390's, 406's and some of the other big blocks. For Chevies it was 283's, 327's, 350's, and 396's, and 427's. The 454's didn't arrive yet. Pontiacs were 287's, 316's, 346's, 389's, and 400's.

When I put that 300 hp 327 in my 61 Chevy Biscayne my best friend wanted to see how high rpm I could wind the engine up to. I had a brand new RAC tach in it, remember those?. I was winding second gear up and got to 7200 rpms and we both agreed I better stop there. Then we weren't so sure it had a hydraudic came in it. Well when I finally spun a rod bearing years later (probably from the days I wound it up to high, didn't know that crap as a teen bopper) sure enough it was the stardard 300 hp hydraudic cam. Why it wound that high and still wanting to go I don't know.

[Rickf1985]

I will bet that both Lloyd and Mary can tell you what happens when you overspeed a Chevy small block with a hydraulic cam and stock heads.
And automatics always were faster than sticks and it had nothing at all to do with shifting. Still are and for the same reason. If you are so big into racing then you already know the answer.

[TD1886]

I will bet that both Lloyd and Mary can tell you what happens when you overspeed a Chevy small block with a hydraulic cam and stock heads.
And automatics always were faster than sticks and it had nothing at all to do with shifting. Still are and for the same reason. If you are so big into racing then you already know the answer.

I was young and dumb then my friend, I'm older and wiser now, but my hot rod and engine building days are over. I know very well what over reving does.

[farmbif]

dont know about new crate engines. but got my dads 1966 549 cubic inch v8 international going two days ago on the 30th anniversary of his death before going to cemetery with family to pay our respects which just happens to be Memorial Day. my brother and his youngest one had the biggest smiles I ever seen when that thing fired up and put the truck in gear to spin the wheels one more time.

[TD1886]

dont know about new crate engines. but got my dads 1966 549 cubic inch v8 international going two days ago on the 30th anniversary of his death before going to cemetery with family to pay our respects which just happens to be Memorial Day. my brother and his youngest one had the biggest smiles I ever seen when that thing fired up and put the truck in gear to spin the wheels one more time.

Sorry to hear of your loss. Your father is in Heaven smiling down on you and may God bless your family.

[gunther]

Having read all the pages of this thread, it's time for a family story. In 1932, my father and his brothers got the Chevrolet dealership in a small eastern Ky town. A couple of years later, they got the Graham dealership, too. Next door to their garage was the best restaurant in town. Momma was the first home demonstration agent in the county. She was in the habit of eating lunch at the good restaurant and couldn't find a place to park. Other than in front of some gas pumps down the street. That's how they met. Well. she got another job, teaching home education in another little town 30 miles north. Dad was in the daily habit of closing up, cleaning up, and quickly heading north. The Graham he drove was the last of 6. It was quick enough to get through the next little town up the road, without slowing down for the city cop in a Model A. You see, under the hood was a mechanically driven supercharger feeding air to a good sized 6. The other 5 Grahams were bought by bootleggers. Don't know how fast those cars were, but they were stout enough to haul a useful load, and outrun everything out there, loaded. Dad's brother used the car for a Sunday afternoon drive with his girl, and went through the same town, but taking it easy. Monday morning was hilarious.

[Lloyd Smale]

Geesh Lloyd, you're bringing back memories. My dad did have a garage, so I worked on my Chevy out in front of the house. One day I was under that 61 Biscayne working on it and my dad was standing on the porch shaking his head. I said "What?" He said girls and four barrel carburaters. You tell me how good Chevy's are and you're working on it all the time. I said "Dad, I'm working on it not because it's broke, but to make it go faster. You forgot guns. Girls, cars, and guns." He laughed. My car years began in the 60's. I don't remember the two cars you talked about being around in my day, or at least my area. For Fords it was the 289's, 390's, 406's and some of the other big blocks. For Chevies it was 283's, 327's, 350's, and 396's, and 427's. The 454's didn't arrive yet. Pontiacs were 287's, 316's, 346's, 389's, and 400's.

When I put that 300 hp 327 in my 61 Chevy Biscayne my best friend wanted to see how high rpm I could wind the engine up to. I had a brand new RAC tach in it, remember those?. I was winding second gear up and got to 7200 rpms and we both agreed I better stop there. Then we weren't so sure it had a hydraudic came in it. Well when I finally spun a rod bearing years later (probably from the days I wound it up to high, didn't know that crap as a teen bopper) sure enough it was the stardard 300 hp hydraudic cam. Why it wound that high and still wanting to go I don't know.

i had to laugh last year. my ma passed (sure not what i laughed about) and us kids ere going through the stuff and one sister found all 6 of our baby books. every got a kick out of mine. She wrote in it that at two years old i would ignore any toy that was given to me that wasnt a car, truck or gun. all this wishy (or should i say swishy) god sure as hell made me a boy!!!

[snowwolfe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOIiYPmjxtQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGvvngGTKmU

[Lloyd Smale]

ok the zl1 is just flipping amazing. i never raced on a road course and the only turning racing was 1/4 mile oval turn left with a 6 cyl 68 camaro. that insane machine pulled 170 on the straight. i didnt do 70. AMAZING CAR. then the blackwing vs vette. i give it an equally amazing rating. i know those vettes launch hard and eveytime. so the caddy even running that close in the quarter was dammed impressive. the running it down on the top end was just wow! to give the vette its due it ran with that caddy that had near 200 more hp. but if i have to be honest i liike the c7 zo6 if were talking vettes and the caddy while being super cool loses me with 4 doors just like the hellcat charger. especially in the case of the caddy it would easily be mistaken as a toyota or malibu by a non car guy. sleepers were cool when i raced but today im not dumping 80k on a sleeper. granted if you get aroud car guys they will know and that should be good enough. but call me vain. cant get the girls anymore with my good looks and hard body so to stroke my ego i at least want to turn there heads with my ride. that is as long as the wife aint looking. shes probably worse them me.she takes the car to work probably 5 days a week and i know its to rub it in the face of the girls at work that have boring mini van husbands. so all that said its the zl1 for me and its an easy choice

[MaryB]

God talking about cars never gets old. used to say it was girls and cars but cars never got old to me and the girls attracted to me did. God to be 25 today!! dont know if i would make to 30 but what a ride. bet ya mary sent more then a few boyys running with there tails tucked

I got tasked with staying up all night to rebuild the 428 in the stock car(Mustang Mach One sheet metal, tube frame... we were blacklisted on a few tracks for winning to much thanks to that frame design. Car owner wet on to build NASCAR frames...) and a guy friend who was kind of a hanger on was running his mouth.

"So you get to put the heads on, big deal...." as his mouth hung open as I rolled out a bare block and started building. We kept 4 spare blocks and at least 2 sets of pistons/rods/bearings/gasket sets etc on hand. This rebuild was to replace the one with a melted piston from the night before. We used some drag racing tricks other teams didn't. Mid engine plate so the transmission stayed in place, front engine plate so we had no engine torque twist on standard motor mounts other teams were using. Put a little more power to the track and gave us an edge... ran super modified class so pretty much anything went as far as chassis and engine mods(no super chargers or turbos, no nitrous, single carb no bigger than 1,000cfm the only restrictions). So aluminum pistons, race rods that were lighter but stronger, we did a custom crankshaft that basically made it a stroker(mush memory but I want to say it was 450cu inches), non stock cams...

I had that engine together and in the car 2 hours before we had to leave for the track 7 hours away... I slept the entire trip in the bunk of the car hauler that was built from a semi tractor with a stretched frame and a roll back deck.

Guy who was hanging out stood there mouth open for an hour then left when I told him this was going to take 4-5 hours... and we didn't get home until 2AM...

[Rickf1985]

Ok, Now we are in my wheelhouse! I did road racing for many years and I actually got to ride on the Nürburgring in a 930 Porsche Turbo. I was not driving since my comp license was not good in Germany but my German friend who owned the car and was a race driver over there took me on a few laps. This was before all the graffiti on the track and the goofy open track days when anybody could go in and drive their cars there. So it was a clean track. Pretty close to the same speeds although the Porsche handles much better. The ZL1, what can be said about that engine? I remember that engine when it was a factory only race engine in the 60's. All aluminum block 427. Did you notice in those laps he was not manually shifting? That was all automatic with some manual paddle downshifts. All of the upshifts were fully automatic. Try finding one of those cars over here.

[snowwolfe]

I can say with absolute certainty my Blackwing will out pull a C8 from above 60 mph. I done it enough times to know it wasn’t a fluke.
0-60, C8 is the winner. With its rear engine it gets much better traction when launching.

[TD1886]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOIiYPmjxtQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGvvngGTKmU

I'll bet you that if The Stig from Top Gear was driving that Corvette he'd beat that Cadilac, or visa versa! LOL

[Lloyd Smale]

I can say with absolute certainty my Blackwing will out pull a C8 from above 60 mph. I done it enough times to know it wasn’t a fluke.
0-60, C8 is the winner. With its rear engine it gets much better traction when launching.

ever run a c7z? how do you think it would do against your old zl1?

[Lloyd Smale]

I had that engine together and in the car 2 hours before we had to leave for the track 7 hours away... I slept the entire trip in the bunk of the car hauler that was built from a semi tractor with a stretched frame and a roll back deck. i think if i wasnt married i be courting you marry[smilie=1:

[snowwolfe]

ever run a c7z? how do you think it would do against your old zl1?

I never come up against one with the ZL1. I think it would end up being a drivers race. I believe on paper the Z06 is quicker by a small margin

[Lloyd Smale]

I never come up against one with the ZL1. I think it would end up being a drivers race. I believe on paper the Z06 is quicker by a small margin

should be its got to be more then 500lbs lighter. but depending on where that weight or lack of weight is it could make it harder to launch

[snowwolfe]

should be its got to be more then 500lbs lighter. but depending on where that weight or lack of weight is it could make it harder to launch

What helps the ZL1 is it has the A10 while the Z06 still has the older, A8.

[TD1886]

Why not just buy a Kawasaki Ninja ZX-14R? Aw hell, I know why, just teasing y'all.

[Lloyd Smale]

at 20 youd have me but i couldnt lay over that tank for 5 minutes with this back. still remember heading to a reception with the wife in my grand national. my sister behind us with her husband on his 1100 crotch rocket Suzuki. i nailed on a 40 mph roll and thought i was getting it he casually pulled along side a me, flipped up his face mask and smiled at my flipped it back down and probably at 70-80mph with my sister on the back popped a wheely and left me like i was chained to the road. BIG difference in bides and cars in the 8os. not so much differences in them in the 70s when 12s were about it for both. or today when 9s are top end for both. sure never thought id make that statement even 15 years ago

[TD1886]

at 20 youd have me but i couldnt lay over that tank for 5 minutes with this back. still remember heading to a reception with the wife in my grand national. my sister behind us with her husband on his 1100 crotch rocket Suzuki. i nailed on a 40 mph roll and thought i was getting it he casually pulled along side a me, flipped up his face mask and smiled at my flipped it back down and probably at 70-80mph with my sister on the back popped a wheely and left me like i was chained to the road. BIG difference in bides and cars in the 8os. not so much differences in them in the 70s when 12s were about it for both. or today when 9s are top end for both. sure never thought id make that statement even 15 years ago

Couldn't agree with you more. I had a 750 Honda Interceptor in the early 80's. I think they wrote it up as 11.43 in the quarter mile. I don't know, never took it to a track. I will tell you my best friend gave me a new pair of black porcelain coated MAC headers and it was though I put a small block chevy in that bike! They made a huge difference. I almost killed myself numerous times on that bike especially when we moved to Colorado and I got those windy mountain roads. I know when I was entering the highways at the entrance ramps I could literally just pull out and keep ahead of the traffic. Winding 3rd gear put me over the speed limit. I'm trying to remember what speed it was at that if you took your hand off the grip that you couldn't put it back. In eastern CO I was doing about 100mph and I hit a Woodcock with the clutch lever. Wow! I thought the engine was going to blow up as it pushed the clutch lever in. There were blood, guts, and feathers all over the place. Only thing I ever hit with a bike. Wife bought me a racing book fearing I was going to get killed and might as well educate me to riding fast with the book. It was called The Twist Of The Wrist. Had a lot of good info in it. It would give me 52 mpg.

[popper]

They didn't handle, and once you got them above 85 or so the front ends would lift. Brakes sucked as did fuel mileage.
yup, just ego boosters.

[TD1886]

They didn't handle, and once you got them above 85 or so the front ends would lift. Brakes sucked as did fuel mileage.
yup, just ego boosters.

What are you talking about popper?

[Lloyd Smale]

im curious to

[TD1886]

im curious to

He's got to be talking about the bike, in which case he's wrong.

[Wag]

Couldn't agree with you more. I had a 750 Honda Interceptor in the early 80's. I think they wrote it up as 11.43 in the quarter mile. I don't know, never took it to a track. I will tell you my best friend gave me a new pair of black porcelain coated MAC headers and it was though I put a small block chevy in that bike! They made a huge difference. I almost killed myself numerous times on that bike especially when we moved to Colorado and I got those windy mountain roads. I know when I was entering the highways at the entrance ramps I could literally just pull out and keep ahead of the traffic. Winding 3rd gear put me over the speed limit. I'm trying to remember what speed it was at that if you took your hand off the grip that you couldn't put it back. In eastern CO I was doing about 100mph and I hit a Woodcock with the clutch lever. Wow! I thought the engine was going to blow up as it pushed the clutch lever in. There were blood, guts, and feathers all over the place. Only thing I ever hit with a bike. Wife bought me a racing book fearing I was going to get killed and might as well educate me to riding fast with the book. It was called The Twist Of The Wrist. Had a lot of good info in it. It would give me 52 mpg.

Very good book by Keith Code. He wrote several of them.

If you're interested in sport bikes (commonly called "crotch rockets") it's a good book to read.

My late wife and I had sport bikes. Hers was a GSXR1000 and mine was an 03 Hayabusa. We had so much fun on those bikes but we took training from professional racers who probably kept us alive!

Funny thing about her is that there was always some punk kid who wanted to "show the girl" how to ride in the twisty mountain road. We' take off, following them finally, she' let me know on the Chatterbox that she was tired of going slow and was going to pass these clown. Sh'e blast around them, in a corner, laying the bike over, dragging knee. I'd go right behind her. After another quarter mile, the little boys would disappear and we presume they would go home and cry in their cereal bowls.

She was very good on the bike.

--Wag--

[TD1886]

Very good book by Keith Code. He wrote several of them.

If you're interested in sport bikes (commonly called "crotch rockets") it's a good book to read.

My late wife and I had sport bikes. Hers was a GSXR1000 and mine was an 03 Hayabusa. We had so much fun on those bikes but we took training from professional racers who probably kept us alive!

Funny thing about her is that there was always some punk kid who wanted to "show the girl" how to ride in the twisty mountain road. We' take off, following them finally, she' let me know on the Chatterbox that she was tired of going slow and was going to pass these clown. Sh'e blast around them, in a corner, laying the bike over, dragging knee. I'd go right behind her. After another quarter mile, the little boys would disappear and we presume they would go home and cry in their cereal bowls.

She was very good on the bike.

--Wag--

I think in addition to your training methods that it's a good idea to ride trail bikes. What you learn on them comes in handy riding on the street, like body "english" on the bike! Saved my butt many times.

[Wag]

I think in addition to your training methods that it's a good idea to ride trail bikes. What you learn on them comes in handy riding on the street, like body "english" on the bike! Saved my butt many times.

Wholeheartedly agree.

--Wag--

[Rickf1985]

Getting back to cars, I went to a VW swap meet and some racing at Maple Grove raceway in Pa. yesterday. There were street driven Jetta's turning 10's with one in the 8's!! Beetles were turning low to mid 10's. Times have certainly changed. First off you never would have been able to drive a car like that on the street back then but the 8 second Jetta looked pretty close to stock, the ultimate sleeper. It was turning probably 10,000 rpm through compound turbos!! RPM equals speed if you can build an engine that will stay together. I have a video of it but I have no idea how to convey that here. The best part, the car he was going up against was having problems at the line and could not get past the burnout box and the starter waited WAY to long before finally send him down as a bye. So he ran on tires that had cool off from his burnout and you could hear them breaking loose going down the track, and still turned high 8's.

[Lloyd Smale]

i was as good as anyone around here on a motocross track but those crotch rockets and a 100mph one hard pavement made me nervous. on the streets for me it was kicked back on a harley with no where to go in a hurry. ive had many harleys my favorites were the flh's but i liked soft tails too. just sold the last one ill probably ever own to my son in law or should say i gave it to him trading it for an old 12 foot fishing boat with an ancient 4 hp Evinrude that one was a 2017 soft tail classic with only about 5k on it. i think i road it three times last year

[Lloyd Smale]

Getting back to cars, I went to a VW swap meet and some racing at Maple Grove raceway in Pa. yesterday. There were street driven Jetta's turning 10's with one in the 8's!! Beetles were turning low to mid 10's. Times have certainly changed. First off you never would have been able to drive a car like that on the street back then but the 8 second Jetta looked pretty close to stock, the ultimate sleeper. It was turning probably 10,000 rpm through compound turbos!! RPM equals speed if you can build an engine that will stay together. I have a video of it but I have no idea how to convey that here. The best part, the car he was going up against was having problems at the line and could not get past the burnout box and the starter waited WAY to long before finally send him down as a bye. So he ran on tires that had cool off from his burnout and you could hear them breaking loose going down the track, and still turned high 8's.

it amazes me what they can get out o bug motor today but the there FAR from what Ferdinand created back in the 40s. like you said as long as the heads stay on and the piston rods stay in the block you can shove enough air or nitrous into even a 4cyl motor and create crazy power levels. can you imagine the money you could have made with even a high 12 second vw

[MaryB]

Getting back to cars, I went to a VW swap meet and some racing at Maple Grove raceway in Pa. yesterday. There were street driven Jetta's turning 10's with one in the 8's!! Beetles were turning low to mid 10's. Times have certainly changed. First off you never would have been able to drive a car like that on the street back then but the 8 second Jetta looked pretty close to stock, the ultimate sleeper. It was turning probably 10,000 rpm through compound turbos!! RPM equals speed if you can build an engine that will stay together. I have a video of it but I have no idea how to convey that here. The best part, the car he was going up against was having problems at the line and could not get past the burnout box and the starter waited WAY to long before finally send him down as a bye. So he ran on tires that had cool off from his burnout and you could hear them breaking loose going down the track, and still turned high 8's.

1/4 or 1/8 mile? A lot of racing is 1/8 mile these days...

[Lloyd Smale]

1/4 or 1/8 mile? A lot of racing is 1/8 mile these days...

just about all street racing today is 1/8 mile

[MaryB]

just about all street racing today is 1/8 mile

Even a lot of track events... no prep races are 1/8 mile...

[Lloyd Smale]

Even a lot of track events... no prep races are 1/8 mile...

ya all that street outlaw stuff is 1/8 mile. someone told me to build a winning quarter mile car costs 50 percent more to build and keeping it going cost half as much because every race is only abusing them half as long and the big savings comes from half of the high rpm abuse on a motor

[Rickf1985]

All the times I gave were 1/4 mile. They were running both. It was confusing too since you did not know what the run was until the time popped up and it would pop up before they hit the 1/4 mile mark. This wasn't a fully sanctioned event so it was kind of a mix of everything. They had junior dragsters that were running 1/8 mile, 90 MPH in the 1/8 in a dragster powered be a one cylinder Briggs and Stratton motor!!!!! How much more fun can a kid have? And how broke can dad get buying lawn mower engine parts!!!

[TD1886]

I remember when Pontiac came out with that Sprint with the performance six cylinder with the over head cam and a 4 barrel carb. It was supposed to be really fast in 1/8 mile. I didn't have diddy squat trouble dusting those off with small block Chevys!

[Lloyd Smale]

my grandpa bought a 68 tempest with that motor. for a 6 back then it did pretty well. but as to beating v8s? they maybe could hang with 289,307,318 2brls. it did have a unique sound though

[TD1886]

my grandpa bought a 68 tempest with that motor. for a 6 back then it did pretty well. but as to beating v8s? they maybe could hang with 289,307,318 2brls. it did have a unique sound though

I heard the cam bearings wore real fast. I can't remember how that cam was set up. Did it ride in the cover?

[Lloyd Smale]

I heard the cam bearings wore real fast. I can't remember how that cam was set up. Did it ride in the cover?

dont remember much about it. i know he wasnt to impressed said it spent most of its first year at the dealership and was the most unreliable car he ever owned. it was a long time ago and i was just a teen then but remember him complaining about cam belts or drive and it burned oil since new. i do remember then coming up (200 miles) for a visit and he used two quarts of oil getting here and it had 50k on it then. he got rid of it at 65k and said by then it cleared bugs out for a 1/4 mile around it and it was so rusty the pevious winter he had to stuff wet rags in the wholes so they would freeze and let the heater warm it up. he didnt even sell it he drove it to the dump and parked it there and bought a new slant 6 Plymouth duster that he just loved. he drove that one over a 100k and that was rare and drove it right up till the day he died. i remember grandma got some insurance money and went and traded it on a plymouth horizon that was another total ***

[TD1886]

dont remember much about it. i know he wasnt to impressed said it spent most of its first year at the dealership and was the most unreliable car he ever owned. it was a long time ago and i was just a teen then but remember him complaining about cam belts or drive and it burned oil since new. i do remember then coming up (200 miles) for a visit and he used two quarts of oil getting here and it had 50k on it then. he got rid of it at 65k and said by then it cleared bugs out for a 1/4 mile around it and it was so rusty the pevious winter he had to stuff wet rags in the wholes so they would freeze and let the heater warm it up. he didnt even sell it he drove it to the dump and parked it there and bought a new slant 6 Plymouth duster that he just loved. he drove that one over a 100k and that was rare and drove it right up till the day he died. i remember grandma got some insurance money and went and traded it on a plymouth horizon that was another total ***

Yup I was right, the cam did ride in the valve pan cover. Read this:

Overhead cam
230
OHC 230 cu in (3.8 L) inline-6

A single overhead camshaft (SOHC) design was introduced by Pontiac in the 1966 model year as the standard engine in the Tempest. Offered also in 1967, the 230 cu in (3.8 L) OHC 6 shared internal dimensions with the overhead valve Chevrolet straight-6 engine it was based on,[citation needed] but had unique cast iron block and head castings. Only the large cam carrier/valve cover was aluminum. It used jackshaft (outside of the block) for oil pump and distributor drive. The jackshaft was driven by the fiberglass reinforced timing belt.[5] It was offered with a single one barrel carburetor, rated at 165 hp (123 kW).[5] A W53 Sprint version for the Firebird produced up to 215 hp (160 kW).

Considered advanced by Detroit engineering standards at the time, the Pontiac OHC 6 followed the Jeep Tornado I6 as the second post-World War II domestic-developed and mass-produced overhead cam automobile engine.[6]

The Pontiac's single camshaft was supported by journals within the aluminum valve cover; no separate bearing shells were used. The cam was driven by a noise-reducing fiberglass-reinforced cogged rubber belt instead of the usual metal chain or gears. Valves were opened with finger followers (centered under the cam) that pivoted at one end on stationary hydraulic adjusters. The oil pump, distributor, and fuel pump were driven by an external jackshaft powered by a rubber timing belt nestled within an aluminum housing bolted to the right side of the block. The head had a single port face with both exhaust and intake valves on the left side and valve stems strongly tilted towards the left. This engine was used in the 1966-67 Tempest and Le Mans and 1967 Firebird.

An optional high-performance Sprint version featured high-compression pistons, hotter cam, dual valve springs, split/dual exhaust manifold, stronger coil, and the then new Rochester Quadrajet carburetor. rated at 207 hp (154 kW).[5] Power was increased to 215 hp (160 kW; 218 PS) in 1967.

Like other Pontiac engines of the era, the OHC 6 was not available in Canada with the exception of the Sprint version of the Firebird. Canadian-market Pontiac automobiles were equipped with the Chevrolet OHV six.

[TD1886]

Here's one for you guys.

1966 - Ak Miller, Art Chrisman, Autolite's Danny Eames, famed Indy-car mechanic Chickie Hirashima, and Mario Andretti teamed up to drop a 255-inch Ford Indy engine into a basically stock fastback for a run at 200 mph during the private Bonneville timing session scheduled by Arfons and two streamliner teams. After successfully setting both D/Production Sedan FIA records at 136.645 (standing kilometer) and 150.134 (standing five-mile), they tipped the can for back-to-back nitromethanated blasts of 171 and 175 before a burned piston ended the outing. From start to finish, the ambitious project spanned just 34 days in late October and early November.

Photograph and information from Motor Trend

315362

[rockrat]

Brings back memories. Built a few Pontiac engines in my day. Blew the 400 (didn't get out of 1st fast enough). Built one 455 then, but not strong enough. Went back to the junkyard and found a 4 bolt main 455 and built another. A lot better. Ran it for a few years then upgraded. Last 455 used 455HO heads I ported and a set of 455SD con rods (knew the people out at HO Racing in Hawthorne, CA well, bought a bunch from them), along with a Edelbrock intake and a 1000 thermoquad carb. 4.56 gears in the rear and 1.65 rocker arms with a RAIV cam. It would RUN. Guessing mid 11's. Could lay down rubber from one power pole past the next one. Tires didn't last long.
Had another Pontiac with 3.23 gears. Stone stock, but long winded. At speed those power poles went by as fast as fence posts. Only did it once, to see just how fast it was. That was enough. Not going to push my luck!! My guardian angel was tired by then. Oh, those were the days:bigsmyl2:

[TD1886]

Brings back memories. Built a few Pontiac engines in my day. Blew the 400 (didn't get out of 1st fast enough). Built one 455 then, but not strong enough. Went back to the junkyard and found a 4 bolt main 455 and built another. A lot better. Ran it for a few years then upgraded. Last 455 used 455HO heads I ported and a set of 455SD con rods (knew the people out at HO Racing in Hawthorne, CA well, bought a bunch from them), along with a Edelbrock intake and a 1000 thermoquad carb. 4.56 gears in the rear and 1.65 rocker arms with a RAIV cam. It would RUN. Guessing mid 11's. Could lay down rubber from one power pole past the next one. Tires didn't last long.
Had another Pontiac with 3.23 gears. Stone stock, but long winded. At speed those power poles went by as fast as fence posts. Only did it once, to see just how fast it was. That was enough. Not going to push my luck!! My guardian angel was tired by then. Oh, those were the days:bigsmyl2:

I think it was you in thread, if not I apologize, but you said that there was no way a 65 Chevelle would do 165mph. Well you read the article I posted about those Mustangs. Remember I don't remember the engine in the Chevelle, but I can guarantee you it was no stock engine. Also about that Plymouth Superbird doing 213 mph on the turnpike we have no way of knowing if the engine was modified or what was done to it and the car. Just sayin.

[Rickf1985]

I think it was you in thread, if not I apologize, but you said that there was no way a 65 Chevelle would do 165mph. Well you read the article I posted about those Mustangs. Remember I don't remember the engine in the Chevelle, but I can guarantee you it was no stock engine. Also about that Plymouth Superbird doing 213 mph on the turnpike we have no way of knowing if the engine was modified or what was done to it and the car. Just sayin.

That would have been me. And that was speaking from a lifetime of pro and semi-pro racing and wrenching. I have driven all of the cars you have mentioned in both stock form and highly modified form. I never tried to go over 200 in a Superbird but I did wrench on them for a few clients and I have driven them and know their capabilities. I do not get my info from internet searches. I can tell you right now that there are few people that have any idea what it is like in a car at over 200 MPH, It is not a Sunday cruise! I do not know of any public turnpikes I would even think about doing that speed on in a prepared race car let alone a factory stock street car from the 60's!!!!! 213 MPH is just under a mile every 15 seconds. Let that sink in for a minute. 15 seconds to cover a mile. A football field plus some every second. And at night? with 60's headlights and 60's tires?

As far as the Chevelle, A 2017 ZL1 Camaro with a professional driver topped out at 168 at the Nürburgring, flat out there was no more. That engine is putting out close to 700 horsepower in a VERY aerodynamic car with a 6 speed transmission. And you are saying a 65 Chevelle with the front end of a barn door beat that?

You could probably find a Yugo that does 120 on the internet if you search for it. Sorry, but I will take practical experience over internet search's any day.

[TD1886]

That would have been me. And that was speaking from a lifetime of pro and semi-pro racing and wrenching. I have driven all of the cars you have mentioned in both stock form and highly modified form. I never tried to go over 200 in a Superbird but I did wrench on them for a few clients and I have driven them and know their capabilities. I do not get my info from internet searches. I can tell you right now that there are few people that have any idea what it is like in a car at over 200 MPH, It is not a Sunday cruise! I do not know of any public turnpikes I would even think about doing that speed on in a prepared race car let alone a factory stock street car from the 60's!!!!! 213 MPH is just under a mile every 15 seconds. Let that sink in for a minute. 15 seconds to cover a mile. A football field plus some every second. And at night? with 60's headlights and 60's tires?

As far as the Chevelle, A 2017 ZL1 Camaro with a professional driver topped out at 168 at the Nürburgring, flat out there was no more. That engine is putting out close to 700 horsepower in a VERY aerodynamic car with a 6 speed transmission. And you are saying a 65 Chevelle with the front end of a barn door beat that?

You could probably find a Yugo that does 120 on the internet if you search for it. Sorry, but I will take practical experience over internet search's any day.

My best friend was a professional racer, he's old now. That includes all the teen stuff up to fuel drag rails. His rail was turning in the 6's. He raced both in U.S. and Europe. I asked him about the "bird" and he said that if it was modified it could probably hit that 213mph. As for the 65 Chevelle he said with the whole car modified engine, suspension, etc he said it would do it, but probably not for long periods. Remember I said for the Chevelle it was at a burst on one of the longer straight sections of that Nevada highway. As for the bird I've been on the turnpike the event happened and I can tell you there are some mighty long straight sections. Again I can assume the driver might have been "blowing out the carbon" not driving the whole pike. I'm an older fellow and I kinda of resent the "internet search" remark. I'm much smarter then that. You probably can tell the young punks that, but not me.

[TD1886]

That would have been me. And that was speaking from a lifetime of pro and semi-pro racing and wrenching. I have driven all of the cars you have mentioned in both stock form and highly modified form. I never tried to go over 200 in a Superbird but I did wrench on them for a few clients and I have driven them and know their capabilities. I do not get my info from internet searches. I can tell you right now that there are few people that have any idea what it is like in a car at over 200 MPH, It is not a Sunday cruise! I do not know of any public turnpikes I would even think about doing that speed on in a prepared race car let alone a factory stock street car from the 60's!!!!! 213 MPH is just under a mile every 15 seconds. Let that sink in for a minute. 15 seconds to cover a mile. A football field plus some every second. And at night? with 60's headlights and 60's tires?

As far as the Chevelle, A 2017 ZL1 Camaro with a professional driver topped out at 168 at the Nürburgring, flat out there was no more. That engine is putting out close to 700 horsepower in a VERY aerodynamic car with a 6 speed transmission. And you are saying a 65 Chevelle with the front end of a barn door beat that?

You could probably find a Yugo that does 120 on the internet if you search for it. Sorry, but I will take practical experience over internet search's any day.

My best friend was a professional racer, he's old now. That includes all the teen stuff up to fuel drag rails. His rail was turning in the 6's. He raced both in U.S. and Europe. I asked him about the "bird" and he said that if it was modified it could probably hit that 213mph. As for the 65 Chevelle he said with the whole car modified engine, suspension, etc he said it would do it, but probably not for long periods. Remember I said for the Chevelle it was at a burst on one of the longer straight sections of that Nevada highway. As for the bird I've been on the turnpike the event happened and I can tell you there are some mighty long straight sections. Again I can assume the driver might have been "blowing out the carbon" not driving the whole pike. I'm an older fellow and I kinda of resent the "internet search" remark. I'm much smarter then that. You probably can tell the young punks that, but not me. BTW that straight away on turnpike I speak of is 11 miles long. That's plenty of road to see what your car can do top end.

[rbuck351]

In the early 70s I worked in an engine rebuild shop. The owner was partners in a couple of others that raced late model sportsman "stock cars" They were using a chevelle laguna with a .030 over 350 that showed 540hp at 6800. One year they took it to Ontario speedway in Ca for a race. They timed in at 168 with the motor not running quite right. Back in the pit they were not allowed to work on the car until race day the next weekend. They found a bent pushrod, replaced it and won their class. Their time in was 13th overall including the big boys stock cars. No, it wasn't a street car but it was an engine that was restricted to a 750 cfm carb. The car was highly modified as well.

Even in the 60s if you had the money and the know how, you could make a car go fast. The Studebaker Avanti was supposed to run 170 or so off the showroom.

[MaryB]

That would have been me. And that was speaking from a lifetime of pro and semi-pro racing and wrenching. I have driven all of the cars you have mentioned in both stock form and highly modified form. I never tried to go over 200 in a Superbird but I did wrench on them for a few clients and I have driven them and know their capabilities. I do not get my info from internet searches. I can tell you right now that there are few people that have any idea what it is like in a car at over 200 MPH, It is not a Sunday cruise! I do not know of any public turnpikes I would even think about doing that speed on in a prepared race car let alone a factory stock street car from the 60's!!!!! 213 MPH is just under a mile every 15 seconds. Let that sink in for a minute. 15 seconds to cover a mile. A football field plus some every second. And at night? with 60's headlights and 60's tires?

As far as the Chevelle, A 2017 ZL1 Camaro with a professional driver topped out at 168 at the Nürburgring, flat out there was no more. That engine is putting out close to 700 horsepower in a VERY aerodynamic car with a 6 speed transmission. And you are saying a 65 Chevelle with the front end of a barn door beat that?

You could probably find a Yugo that does 120 on the internet if you search for it. Sorry, but I will take practical experience over internet search's any day.

There is a highway in Texas used to speed test cars...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-gzNi6MRwI

In the early 80's I got a 5 lap hot lap ride in a Shelby Cobra... 180mph on the straight, 120 in the corners at the Ford Proving ground track in Dearborn during a Shelby American auto meet. Got a pin and patch saying how fast we hit... these were NOT stock, they were the competition model and modded more beyond that. Cost me $100 and was well worth it! Doing that on a high speed oval is different than 160mph in the 1/4 mile...

[10x]

Because people like performance? There are factory cars with over 700 horsepower. The cars from the muscle car era have style, but they are an absolute joke compared to modern cars in terms of any kind of race.

My wife and I purchased a new Toyota corona with a 6 cylinder engine in 1974. I have no idea of what the HP was but it had radial tires, incredible suspension, handled extremely well and had impressive acceleration.
That car lasted me 19 years and 200,000 miles.
After driving it, driving any of the North American made muscle cars was like driving a tractor.
The '74 AMC Javelin did not have enough room between the clutch pedal and the E brake pedal to get a size 13 boot past them

[David2011]

Nobody needs 1000hp, or more than 10 rounds.

The irony is thick in this thread.

That’s hilarious. Thanks.