Handling "pewter"

[gnappi]

I have a lot of "relatively" hard lead alloy (no hardness tester) and I'd like to further harden it with pewter but I have no idea how to deal with pewter, so if these Q's have been answered before I'd appreciate links.

I have a number of pieces that they may be pewter so I have questions on using it.

1. Since pewter melts at a much lower temperature than aluminum, can positive identification be determined by using a propane torch on a section to see if it melts easily?

2. Should I or can I saw pewter or should I melt it in a steel pot over a camp stove flame?

3. Is there any reason to not use my lead furnaces to make pewter ingots with?

4. Any suggestions on pewter to lead alloy ratio? I read that a Lyman 1 pound ingot mold will yield an ~ 3/4 pound pewter ingot. I know that the initial hardness of the lead factors in, but what's a good start on how much pewter to use in a 20 pound pot?

[Rickf1985]

Well, I am no expert but I will offer my views. #1 a torch will show pewter almost instantly melting it but keep in mind that zinc melts at 700 degrees so if you have any zinc in there you could also melt that pretty quickly with a torch.
#2 I don't see why you would want to saw it unless it is too big to fit in a pot. As far as choice of heat source see above with the torch. Above 700 degrees if you have zinc it will melt and if you have anything but a very small amount of it you will ruin the entire batch.
#3 Absolutely no reason why you cannot use your lead furnace, again, keep it below 700. Pewter will generally melt at around 450-550 so no problem there. Any zinc would float to the surface and can be skimmed off.
#4 This is where it gets sticky. You are talking about adding tin to an already hard lead and this might not gain you anything at all. There is a point where the amount of tin hits a point of zero gain and I forget what that point is right now. But pewter is really best for sweetening up pure lead. The make hard lead even harder you would want to add antimony in the form of Rotometals hardball or Superhard. Or water quenching will also harden it.

[imashooter2]

All your questions are answered in the Pewter Pictures and Hallmarks thread, but it is getting a bit long to sort through.

Pewter is treated as pure tin in making alloys. Tin is a poor hardener. It is more added for wetting the alloy and lower melt temperature to allow better fill out. It is the prevailing opinion that more than 2% in the alloy is wasted for this purpose.

The best method for novice pewter hunters is to look for the hallmarks (touch marks). Real pewter holloware is expensive when new and the makers all want to make sure you know what they are providing. Real pewter is marked Pewter, Zinn or Etaine depending on country of origin.

I have collected processed and sold some 700 pounds of pewter and I have tried many methods to process it. Cutting it with saws, clippers, etc. are time consuming and difficult. The best tools are a sturdy bench vise and a 3 pound drilling hammer. For teapots and the like, clamp the legs, handles and spouts in the vise and twist them off. Use the hammer to crush the body into a rough tube small enough for your pot and feed it in as it melts. Trays and plates, clamp a few inches into the vise and fold it over. Hammer the fold flat and repeat until you have a tube and feed it to the pot. Bowls, fold the edges in and hammer as required to fit the pot again.

Pewter is relatively clean compared to scrap lead, but there is dust from sitting, sometimes varnish has been applied to avoid tarnishing and of course the oxides from melting. I melt at 500 -550 degrees. The alloy will melt at lower temperature, but I have found the sawdust I use to reduce the oxides back in work much better at 500 plus degrees. Molds are all preference. I use Potter molds. The 2 small cavities of a Lee ingot mold are about the right size. Decoy weight molds are good. Some use large bullet molds. At least one member here uses the bottom of beverage cans to cast coins. If you use anything other than a bullet mold, cast the ingots thin enough that you can snap them for smaller additions to the pot.

I strongly recommend you read the first few pages of the Hallmarks thread linked in my signature. Good luck.

http://imashooter2.com/pictures/pew6s.jpg

[kevin c]

Rickf1985 and imashooter2 made some good points. I’ll just add a little.

Most pewter items are pretty thin. Metal shears (aka tin snips - I wonder how they got the name ;^]) cut through that easily. If you have a pewter ingot, too thick to use shears on that you want to add part of to a pot of lead, one technique is to just dip in as much as you want to melt off, holding the ingot with vice grips; all the tin below the surface will quickly melt into the 600+ degree alloy almost immediately. If you want greater precision, melt your pewter in your empty casting pot and cast it into bullets so you’ll can add small measured and equal amounts with each bullet.

Tin up to 2% by weight improves castability. True that tin was used to harden lead in the past but antimony is both cheaper and more effective for that. The highest tin content I’ve heard or read about is 16 to 1, which is a bit under 6% tin, and only has a BHN of 11, which was plenty hard enough for the original 44 Magnum loads.

Tin does apparently effect other characteristics of bullet alloy besides casting fill out and hardness, especially when used with antimony at certain ratios, which is why Lyman #2 alloy (95-5-5) has such a good reputation.

A lot of stuff that looks like pewter isn’t, and might cause headaches if you put it in your alloy. Try to stick with items labeled as being made of pewter until you have an idea on how to judge what you have and might buy (the monster pewter thread stickied at the top of this forum is worth going through).

Remember to have fun!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

What do you really want?
You don't really tell us enough about what you have, so it's basically impossible to give you any good advice.

Maybe do a little reading...
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

[Land Owner]

Use the "Pencil Test" to determine alloy hardness (see post referencing link here)
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?446720-Testing-hardness-with-pencils&p=5451716&viewfull=1#post5451716

Note on "Pencil Test" https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?378866-Lead-hardness-pencil-testing-trick&p=4973140&viewfull=1#post4973140


Make hard alloy softer by adding proportioned lead (BHN 8.6) by weight to proportioned "hard cast" alloy (BHN by Pencil Test) by weight to achieve a lesser BHN alloy. It is an easy calculation for proportions...



This link is a "close to the pin" calculation until I find one better.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?453000-alloy-for-casting-45ACP-bullets&p=5530852&viewfull=1#post5530852

Another "close to the pin" link
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?449818-Is-there-a-formula-for-lowering-the-BHN-of-your-lead&p=5488662&viewfull=1#post5488662

Here is a better one
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?407158-How-to-turn-15-BHN-Alloy-To-10-BHN-Alloy&p=4966447&viewfull=1#post4966447

Use 8.6 BHN for lead (not 6 BHN)

[William Yanda]

I find that my Lee pot is comfortable with a little less than 20 lbs. Using 16 oz./lb makes calculating percentages relatively simple.
If you really want to make lead harder, tin from pewter might not be the best option.

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve cast 500 grain pure tin/pewter boolits in my casting pot, to be able to easily calculate the exact amount I was adding to my alloy. It worked out fine. As was said, be careful not to get fooled by zinc. The range scrap I normally cast with is normally hard enough for me. I’m adding tin to make fill out a breeze, since I have some on hand. I’m not sure how much harder it will make you’re alloy. Probably you should see if you can get a hold of some linotype if possible to harden your alloy. Hopefully others who are into fine tuning alloy can provide more information.

[imashooter2]

LOL! I have 2 different alloys I make…
1) eh, that'll do
And
2) harder than the hammers of hell.
:drinks:

[Willie T]

I melt pewter in a 20 pound Lee ladle pour pot. I melt it at 525°. My Lyman ladle dips up 4 ounces of pewter. Using a cup cake pan I pour a ladle full in each hole to make four ounce coins. That works out to be a useful weight for me. 314367