The “22 Long” cartridge – uses today?

[bedbugbilly]

When I was a kid, some 60 years ago – my brother and I hunted squirrels & rabbits with several different rifles. Dad would only let us use 22 Shorts because he would point to a box of 22 LR to where it was printed “Danger – Range 1 Mile”. The 22 shorts did everything we needed them to, and as I recall, we had boxes of 22 LRs in the in the gun cabinet as that was all Dad’s Winchester 63 could shoot – and we were using a Remington pump and a Winchester Model 69 with the shorts as they were chambered in 22 Short, Long or Long Rifle.

So, the parent cartridge of the 22 Long was the 22 Short, both of which started out as plack powder cartridges. I’m sure that there were rifles that were chambered in 22 Long and the cartridge was also used in revolvers of the day.

The other day, I was going through some things and I discovered an ammo can full of 22 ammo that I had forgotten about as I had slid it under the loading bench and it was out of view because of the containers of brass I had stacked in front of it. When I opened it up, I remembered that most of it was from my folk’s house when I had settled the estate and split the ammo with my brother – some boxes of Remington Shorts from the early 60s, some from the 50s, etc. I had also put sone 100 count boxes of CCI in there – all Shorts but one box = some I had purchased during the Bamarama Shortage. I was surprised to see a 100 count box of CCI 22 Longs. I’m sure I must have picked them up one of the times that I had gone up to Tucson to get and number and stand in line, hoping to be able to buy ammo. The box of 22 Long must have been the only thing left when my number was called and I picked them up figuring that I could shoot them in my Henry or in one of the revolvers I had at the time.

The finding of the box of 22 Longs got me to wondering about that particular cartridge. I may have shot some 22 Long at some point, but I sure can’t remember it – it’s heck getting old. A check on the internet confirmed that CCI still makes it – and others may too but I didn’t find any. Other than maybe some older rifles being chambered in 22 Long, it seems like today, semi-autos are pretty much 22 Long Rifle – some rifles are still made and marked 22 Short, Long or Long Rifle. BUT – how many actually shoot the 22 Long cartridge and for what purpose?

I’m just getting interested in shooting 22s again after a long vacation from them – seems like there is such a variety now (if available) – Standard Velocity, High Velocity, Extra High Velocity, SubSonic, CB Caps (we used to use these as a kid to nail gophers), Shorts, etc. Other than a Standard Velocity or Low Velocity 22 Long that could possibly be used in an old rifle chamgerec in the 22 Long – it seems to me that the 22 Long is pretty much obsolete? Or am I missing something? Is there a circumstance where some folks like to use the 22 Long? There must be a demand for the 22 Long if CCI and possibly others are still producing it. Would love to hear from those that use the 22 Long and why they use it. Advantages as compared to Short/Long Rifle?

Thanks!

[HWooldridge]

I have a couple boxes of old Remington .22 long that I was given by a friend after his dad passed away. I've shot a few and don't see much of an advantage over shorts or long rifle lengths. I like to shoot shorts, just because they are so quiet - longs have a bit softer report than LR but it's hard to tell much difference.

[CastingFool]

Back when I started shooting 22s, we found out that the LRs were slightly more expensive than the LRs or shorts. So we bought the LRs or shorts whatever struck our fancy

[Bazoo]

I am interested as well. The 22 Long is obsolete considering all practical purposes, and I never see any, or hear of anyone needing it. I do find the history of it to be quite interesting though.

The 22 long used the same 29 grain bullet as the 22 short. The 22 extra long used a 40 grain bullet. J Stevens company combined the 22 extra long bullet with the 22 long case to make the 22 LR in 1887. It touched on the right balance of bullet weight and velocity for accuracy.

I do shoot 22 shorts sometimes still, more for nostalgia reasons than for actual need.

[recumbent]

I was in my LGS 2 weeks ago and saw CCI 22Long in the 100 round plastic boxes. I commented that it has been years since I saw 22 longs. The own er commented that 20 boxes came in the week before. He has a standard order with his supplier and they ship him whatever they get in.
Why CCI made 22 long when they can't make 22LR fast enough is weird.

[Texas by God]

At Pete’s grocery, Shorts were cheapest, longs were a few cents higher, and LRs a few cents higher still- a staggering 75 cents!
Us boys never could prove that Longs did anything better than Shorts or Long Rifle in Dads 511 Remington- so we passed them up.
I DO like the CCI CB Longs, though.
I think I remember reading that the first 1890 Winchester pump .22 rifles were chambered in .22 Short only or .22 Long only, etc.


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[schutzen-jager]

fwiw - back in the previous century several manufactures produced repeating rifles { slide actions } that would not feed .22lr at all + required the use of the long cartridge only - -

[lup]

.22lr gets used in almost everything today.

.22 short gets used when required by law (trapping)

.22 long rarely gets used anymore.

[elmacgyver0]

The little Beretta 950 BS (Minx) will only shoot shorts.
You could load a passel of shorts in a Henry lever gun.

[Walks]

When I purchased my 10/22 in 1975 the clerk sold me a carton of Longs. He obviously didn't know what he was doing and I didn't bother to check. That first range trip was a real disappointment. But I had My Colt Peacemaker .22 with Me so it wasn't a total bust. That same clerk tried to sell Me 2 boxes of .222Rem for My Mini-14 in.223 a few months later.

I've checked every box label and visually checked the ammo too. To make sure it matches what I asked for.

[pworley1]

I have a couple of old rifles that will only shoot shorts or longs. Back in the late 50's all I was allowed to shoot was shorts. When I was old enough to buy my own I shot a lot of longs. I still have a little Browning take down auto that only shoots shorts.

[Mk42gunner]

I've fired a few .22 Longs, but I bet the total isn't over twenty five or thirty. I do have a 100 round box of CCI Longs in the stash, why I don't know.

As I understand it the .22 Short was developed in the 1850's by S&W. The Long followed a decade or so later, still using the 29 grain bullet. Then the .22 extra long with a 40 grain bullet and I think six grains of BP (I doubt anyone is still alive from when the extra long was being manufactured). The .22 Long rifle was developed by Stevens as a combination of the Long case and the extra long 40 grain bullet in 1887. The first rounds weren't crimped, that wasn't necessary for the single shots, but was for the repeaters that shortly followed.

The Short and Long utilize a 1:20 twist, the Long rifle a 1:16, so in theory the lighter bullets aren't as accurate from Long Rifle barrel. In theory.

There were a number of rifles chambered for the .22 Short and a few for the .22 Long only. The Winchester 1873 comes to mind; one or the other, but not interchangeably. Winchester 1890 too. The big point of the Model 1906 was that it could handle the .22 Short, Long, or Long Rifle, I guess the Extra Long was already on its way out by then.

Moving on a few decades, there were quite few semi autos that would handle all three rounds. Remington, Stevens and Winchester all made some.

As a point of note the Winchester Model 190 that Dad bought new around 1972 was clearly marked for .22 Long or Long Rifle only. It would however cycle with Shorts when it was clean. The one that I have now is marked for .22 S, L, or LR; I believe it was made in the 1960's.

Robert

[Electrod47]

Just before the big .22 "Famine" really set in I stumbled on stacks of new 50rd plastic boxes of at local small town MS Pawn/Gun shop. CCI longs
8 bucks a box there abouts. So I bought 10 for my Model 100 Revelation Western Auto. Those things are accurate and devastating on squirrels to 50 yds. Its always fun to me to play with the odd stuff. PS haven't seen them since, but wouldn't mind stocking some more.

[26Charlie]

In bygone days I had a Winchester 1890 in .22 long. The slow twist would not stabilize LRs. The barrel was in bad shape; I think it was a carnival shooting gallery gun. I let it go to the local gun shop for a .22 I still have.

[bedbugbilly]

We also had a Remington Model 24 in the gun cabinet when I was a kid - chambered in 22 Short - based on the Browning design. Tube geed through the stock. It was a "take down" design where the barrel and foreshock could be easily removed. I believe it had been a shooting gallery gun my Dad had picked up somewhere - which probably explained why the sights were "off". I worked on the sights and finally got it to shoot well enough to bag some squirrels. It always amazed me how well it ran - even when dirty it never failed to function with any brand of Shorts. When I settled my parent's estate, my brother took it to give to his son-in-law as he didn't;t have a 22 and it had sentimental thoughts attached to it. It was a well made rifle, a great design and even though the one we had showed a lot of use, it ran buttery smooth with any of those 1 cent rounds we fed it.

Interesting information on the 22 Long - appreciate the responses and information. No way of ever knowing - but it would be interesting as to what CCI's sales are for a year and what proportion is purchased by folks for a specific reason/use and what proportion is purchased by those like me that pick them up due to likitrd choices but who have a revolver or rifle they would normally shoot shorts or LR in but the Long would also work in. I guess I'm going to have to try a few "just because" but take a couple of them and put them with my small collection of antique copper case rimfire cartridges.

Interesting stuff!

[Bazoo]

We also had a Remington Model 24 in the gun cabinet when I was a kid - chambered in 22 Short - based on the Browning design. Tube geed through the stock. It was a "take down" design where the barrel and foreshock could be easily removed. I believe it had been a shooting gallery gun my Dad had picked up somewhere - which probably explained why the sights were "off". I worked on the sights and finally got it to shoot well enough to bag some squirrels. It always amazed me how well it ran - even when dirty it never failed to function with any brand of Shorts. When I settled my parent's estate, my brother took it to give to his son-in-law as he didn't;t have a 22 and it had sentimental thoughts attached to it. It was a well made rifle, a great design and even though the one we had showed a lot of use, it ran buttery smooth with any of those 1 cent rounds we fed it.

Interesting information on the 22 Long - appreciate the responses and information. No way of ever knowing - but it would be interesting as to what CCI's sales are for a year and what proportion is purchased by folks for a specific reason/use and what proportion is purchased by those like me that pick them up due to likitrd choices but who have a revolver or rifle they would normally shoot shorts or LR in but the Long would also work in. I guess I'm going to have to try a few "just because" but take a couple of them and put them with my small collection of antique copper case rimfire cartridges.

Interesting stuff!

Heck i'd like to see pics of the longs as well as those copper rimfires . that sounds neat as heck.

[uscra112]

The .22 Short had 3 grains black powder. The Long had 5 grains, following the "more is better" principle. The .22 Long Rifle also had 5 grains, but the heavier bullet meant it was slower. Thus the Long survived as having the flatter trajectory. Until smokeless powder arrived, at which point there really wasn't any rationale at all for the Long, except as a load for legacy rifles having the slow twist. Are there any of those still around?

[Mk42gunner]

There have to be a few .22 Long guns still around, probably not getting shot very much though.

Look at how many of the other Forgotten Rimfires are still around and the hoops people jump through to shoot them. .25, .30, .32, .38, .41, and .44 of varying lengths; and don't forget the various Spencer cartridges.

I've said it before, but I think it bears repeating: I wish the ammunition companies would make the occasional run of rim fire ammo.

Robert

[uscra112]

I'll second the motion in re: the .25 Stevens and the .32 Long. Lots and lots of boys' rifles still around for those, and many in good shape, too..

[Rusty Goose]

I have Remington Rolling Block #4 that is chambered for .22 short or long. I have only run shorts through it, not caring for the devastating recoil of .22 long. I'll save that for you big game hunters....

Rusty

[besk]

My 1968 copy of Gun Digest shows the 22 short to shoot 29 gr bullets at 1045 fps (or 1125 fps high velocity), the long shows the same 29 gr bullets at 1240 fps.
The long rifle 40gr bullet at 1245 fps while the 37gr hollow points are at 1365 fps. These figures are for Remington, Winchester and Federal ammo.

[dtknowles]

I shoot a fair number of .22 longs and I consider Aguila Kolibri in this category as well. I would shoot more shorts but they are harder to find than .22 long. I shoot them indoors at home for practice and teaching. I like the CCI CB longs better than the Kolibri's. Since I am only punching paper at short distances power and trajectory are not important. That said, the .22 long is everything a .22 short is plus some except it is longer. Airguns have mostly replaced .22 for indoor shooting for me but I still have boxes of .22 longs.
Tim

[barnetmill]

I have a couple of old rifles that will only shoot shorts or longs. Back in the late 50's all I was allowed to shoot was shorts. When I was old enough to buy my own I shot a lot of longs. I still have a little Browning take down auto that only shoots shorts.
A cousin has such a browning. I think some of those might have also been used for galley guns, but also good for shooting rats and pigeons around farm and factory buildings.

[barnetmill]

I shoot a fair number of .22 longs and I consider Aguila Kolibri in this category as well. I would shoot more shorts but they are harder to find than .22 long. I shoot them indoors at home for practice and teaching. I like the CCI CB longs better than the Kolibri's. Since I am only punching paper at short distances power and trajectory are not important. That said, the .22 long is everything a .22 short is plus some except it is longer. Airguns have mostly replaced .22 for indoor shooting for me but I still have boxes of .22 longs.
Tim

I have a lot of quiet .22 CCI type of ammo. It is long rifle external dimensions and fires a 40 grain bullet at about 720 ft per second. Said to be 80 db out of a full length barrel. Sounds about like a pellet rifle and does not require a NFA can to be quiet. There is also segmented load for it that breaks in three pieces.

[uscra112]

I was shooting Quiet out of my Ballard at a range in Idaho several years ago. Guy came over and wanted to see my silencer.

[barrabruce]

Cci CB longs with 29 grain bullet shoots well at the lower velocity in some guns.The fact that the 29 grain makes way less noise when it hits something as apposed to the 40 grain and less pass through makes it better for backyard pest removal out of long barrels.
Or so I’ve heard.

[45_Colt]

I have a few boxes of Remington & CCI in longs, CB type. Even in a K22 6" they are quiet. That and unlike a short don't carbon up the cylinder where a long or LR can't be chambered.

Other then CB longs I don't think I've seen them around. What I find interesting about the CB longs is that they are a HP.

45_Colt

EDIT: arg, wrong info, the CB longs (CCI & Rem) are NOT HP. But RN. The sub-sonic Rems are HP, but not the CBs. Still can't go wrong with them when looking for quiet...

[Finster101]

I have a Remington 550-1. It shoots short, long or long rifle. It also does not care if you mix them up in the tube magazine either. It just runs. My dad picked up an old Winchester gallery gun a few years ago. It is a pump and chambered for shorts only.

[Bazoo]

I'd be interested in a rimfire gun, in a larger caliber, provided the ammo made for it was relatively inexpensive. 25 or 32 caliber, even 38 caliber. But, the market isnt going to support it. A single shot gun, like the stevens, or any of the single shot 22's, in my opinion would be popular.

[Charlie Horse]

I was in my LGS 2 weeks ago and saw CCI 22Long in the 100 round plastic boxes. I commented that it has been years since I saw 22 longs. The own er commented that 20 boxes came in the week before. He has a standard order with his supplier and they ship him whatever they get in.
Why CCI made 22 long when they can't make 22LR fast enough is weird.

Those 22 CB Longs are more accurate than the shorts in some guns, and they will feed through some magazines. I would take the longs over the shorts any day.

[alfadan]

Bought a box by accident. Actually shot well enough in a Ruger mk3, though I didn't notice anything special.

[Digital Dan]

About 25 years ago I purchased a Contender and had a barrel made with a match chamber for shorts. Had my eyes on a few squirrel and perhaps some other obnoxious critters. It was about this time that I became aware that CCI was making CB Shorts so I grabbed some and set about seeing how they worked.

5 shots each beginning with a clean barrel.
https://i.imgur.com/ah8rkFz.jpg

Without belaboring the fine details, the state retained my services to thin the feral hog population in my neighborhood, but restricted me to rimfires. Well, OK.

https://i.imgur.com/5FjJlCN.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CzbgttY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/45NsJo9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lw7duvS.jpg

With that out of the way, a few months ago a friend passed along a couple of buckets of ammo from the estate of an old friend, and he had no need for any of it. Amidst the pile I found about 500 shorts and 2 boxes (full) of Remington longs that dated from the 60s/70s era. They will kill hogs also. 8-)

[uscra112]

????? Would a CB, (short or long) even penetrate the hide of one of those piggies? Did you shoot 'em through the eye?

[Digital Dan]

Roughly 150 hogs died from a single shot with the CBs. All but one required only a single shot. Hogs up to 125# +\- got shot broadside thru the neck, bigger ones took a hit in the brain whilst wondering what I was. The CBs would fully penetrate the neck or brain. Range varied from 15-35 yards. Killed 5 hogs one day w/o taking a step, two were over 200#. CBs are quiet and hogs aren’t that bright.

If you look at the skull pic you will see the entrance hole.

[uscra112]

The one time I can remember making a head shot on a woodchuck using a CCI CB round it bounced off the skull. Are pig skulls that much thinner than a 'chuck's? Still skeptical.

[Digital Dan]

Your skepticism is understood, but the path to success is governed by placement.

The first hog I killed with a CB Short was taken at a measured distance of 38 yards. I assumed the CB Short would do little more than annoy it, but it happened that A) that was what I had in my hands and B) I was annoyed as well. I don't like them rooting up my yard. So along came the pop, followed by a flop, and the piggy was dead. What surprised me greatly was that the bullet passed through its neck and exited on the off side. A shoat of about 40#.

For the record, there are many rimfire rounds out there. Some from my collection, from left to right: .17 BB cap, .22 BB Cap, .22 CB Cap, .22 short, .22 long and .22 Long rifle.
https://i.imgur.com/FehcQ3Y.jpg

The .17 is used in this rifle: https://i.imgur.com/ZGhgfpo.jpg
I have no doubt it could kill a hog.

A few more pictures follow, notably some skull pics of the boar that contributed the previous pictures. The bullet was found about 6" deep in the neck muscle behind the skull.

https://i.imgur.com/EcoAg5d.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/S4s0u8c.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zcWlSRW.jpg

Curiously enough, I have used the .22 LR round on a couple of hogs and though it was successful I observed that the LR round will not exit on a neck shot. I assume but do not know for certain that the LR bullet begins to tumble and thus loses energy quickly.

As far as bullets bouncing off the skull, I use the CB Short by waiting for the larger hogs to turn to face me, and as they are want to do, lower their head with nose close to the ground. Thus the impact angle is near 90* and they don't ricochet. Pop'n Flop, done deal.

Like you I was not expecting such performance, but have since learned much about bullet performance at the low end of the performance spectrum. If you ever have the opportunity to use CB Shorts, do not assume they can't hurt anything. They can and do. They also work just fine on possum, skunks, squirrel, armadillo, feral cats, raccoons and most anything else you want to shoot with them.

My other guns use LR rounds....

[uscra112]

I guess I'll have to take you at your word.

I use Quiet, which has the same published MV as your CBs,, but with the 40 grain segmented bullet, on opossums and raccoons around here. They come in the cat door after the cats' food, and are executed at point-blank range using an Iver Johnson revolver. I use lung shots exclusively, so as not to have to clean up blood. Lung shot, they'll make it out onto the porch before collapsing. I do not see any exit wounds.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Long ago, 1960's, shorts, longs, and long rifles were all available. Prices - shorts were cheapest, longs a little more, then long rifles at several levels with standard, target and hollowpoints. Some early .22's were chambered for shorts and longs and did not handle the longer long rifles. My father would buy longs in error when long rifles were requested. I still have a couple very old Sears Longs around. CCI did make a 22 Long as one of the earliest 'quiet' versions, probably because some rifles do not feed shorts very well. Other than low powered rounds that won't build a carbon/lead ring in a chamber like shorts can, there is little purpose today. With the quiet and sub-sonic rounds, longs again have little purpose. The 22 Long Rifle did evolve from the Long. Longs used the 29 grain bullet like the short, the Stevens bumped the bullet to 40 grains....

[schutzen-jager]

fwiw - back in my youth at my aunt's farm in Yardley PA. large hogs, sheep, + even veal calves were done with an old .22 + shorts from a work bench drawer - 1 shot would do it -

[Bigslug]

If a Long Rifle chamber is what you have, the Long ammo option puts the 29 grain bullet closer to the rifling than a Short case will, so probably more accuracy potential if Short speeds or bullets are what you want. The CB / CB Long is still a pretty useful thing.

[Kylongrifle32]

I have a Remington model12 pump. I always hunted squirrels with the 22 longs because I thought they were quieter than 22 shorts. The extra velocity helped with expansion with solids but once I found how effective the 22 short HP killed squirrels I never bought longs again.