Bullseye Wadcutter Loads

[TXTad]

Last night I loaded up some commercially cast 148gr DEWCs over 2.8gr of Bullseye. I understand that 2.7-2.8 is the "classic" swaged HB load, but I've read a few posts here today suggesting that 3.0 is better for the cast wadcutters.

Thoughts?

Sticking to Bullseye, what do some of you use for a favorite WC load?

Recently I've obtained a few different WC molds which I'll be using once I use up my stash of Magma cast DEWCs and Hornady swaged HBWCs.

[Wheelguns 1961]

I have an mp BNWC mold that is a copy of the H&G 50. I use 3.2 grains of bullseye. I have shot many thousands of these and HBWC’s and have tried all of the loads. It is just what my model 14 likes.

[Txcowboy52]

I load 3 grains of f bullseye for my wadcutters loads . Works great no problems experienced.

[steveu]

2.7 grains of BE.

[Winger Ed.]

Ya need to try different ones, and see which load is best for you.
That's why there is min. and Max. loads. One or the other might be best for you, or maybe something in between.

Just don't shoot your eye out kid.:bigsmyl2:

[racepres]

2.7 grains of BE.
Yup...Works for Me!!!

[gnoahhh]

Yup...Works for Me!!!

Ditto.

[stubshaft]

Another vote for 2.7!

[imashooter2]

2.7 grains of Bullseye under an H&G 50. Good enough for my Daddy, good enough for me.

[georgerkahn]

Last night I loaded up some commercially cast 148gr DEWCs over 2.8gr of Bullseye. I understand that 2.7-2.8 is the "classic" swaged HB load, but I've read a few posts here today suggesting that 3.0 is better for the cast wadcutters.

Thoughts?

Sticking to Bullseye, what do some of you use for a favorite WC load?

Recently I've obtained a few different WC molds which I'll be using once I use up my stash of Magma cast DEWCs and Hornady swaged HBWCs.

Not a "bean-counter", per se, but I can give an honest approximation of 148 grain H&G cast bullets sent down-range with my S&W Model 52 -- definitely MORE than ten thousand -- in my Bullseye shooting years :)! For the beginning I reckoned a better load would make for better groups, so I tried using Clays, W231, and several other powders -- but steered back to 2.7 grains of Bullseye! I did hope to improve the edge with purchase of "better" (e.g., Redding) dies and powder measure (Harrell), but again, in all MY shooting -- 2.7 grains of Bullseye provided me the best chances for high scores!
geo

[racepres]

Not a "bean-counter", per se, but I can give an honest approximation of 148 grain H&G cast bullets sent down-range with my S&W Model 52 -- definitely MORE than ten thousand -- in my Bullseye shooting years :)! For the beginning I reckoned a better load would make for better groups, so I tried using Clays, W231, and several other powders -- but steered back to 2.7 grains of Bullseye! I did hope to improve the edge with purchase of "better" (e.g., Redding) dies and powder measure (Harrell), but again, in all MY shooting -- 2.7 grains of Bullseye provided me the best chances for high scores!
geo

Pretty much sums that up!!!!

[JoeJames]

The NRA in their Handloaders Guide had an article on what they tested and found to be the most accurate 38 Special wadcutter load. From their testing they held that the 148 grain wadcutter Cast (Not swaged) bullet was the most accurate with a charge of 2.7 grains of Bullseye.

[Char-Gar]

2.7/BE will give less recoil than the 3.0/BE load and therefore many folks can post higher scores. I would think that is about the only real difference between the two powder charges.

[TXTad]

The NRA in their Handloaders Guide had an article on what they tested and found to be the most accurate 38 Special wadcutter load. From their testing they held that the 148 grain wadcutter Cast (Not swaged) bullet was the most accurate with a charge of 2.7 grains of Bullseye.

and


2.7/BE will give less recoil than the 3.0/BE load and therefore many folks can post higher scores. I would think that is about the only real difference between the two powder charges.

I think the 2.7 and cast advice are the convergence of the benefits of low recoil, as you point out, and the fact that a slightly shorter bullet will stabilize better in the slowish 18.75" twist of the arguably more common S&W target revolver vs the 16" of a Colt. I suspect my use will not show much difference between anything in the 2.7 to 3.0 or even 3.5 range and cast vs swaged, but I suppose I'll be finding out this summer.

[ascast]

38 Special, good to know

[45DUDE]

I agree with post #2. I bench a lot. In wheel guns with bullseye 3.2 with an H&G bnwc is my favorite and I go high as 3.7. In my autos I back off to 2.5--3.1. <Depends on which one>I have about 4000 loaded. A 38 special wad cutter load is the most accurate -cheapest - and easy to load you can shoot. They are accurate up to a little over 920fps.

[Martin Luber]

What 45 Dude said plus it matters if it's a revolver or an auto, and then which auto and what seating depth. Some seat #50 wc flush which can bulge the shell if +p type beass is used.

There's a crimp groove for revolvers and 1911 autos...this gives lower pressures and velocity. Model 52 must be flush and because its a tighter bore (0.355), and an unsupported chamber, lower charges like 2.7 BE are needed. Good luck

[bedbugbilly]

2.7 gr. under a 148 gr. WC for me has always been a very accurate load for me out of my 38s.

I have a Uberti 1851 Colt Navy Richards & Mason Conversion with 7 1/2" barrel that I've tried a wide variety of cast grain weights and designs in and the 2.7 gr. BE/148 gr. WC load has proven to be the most accurate load out of it - seems like all you have to do is point it towards a can standing up, pull the trigger and the can starts dancing!

[Outpost75]

I have found that with soft swaged HBWCs from Speer, Hornady, Precision Delta, Zero that accuracy suffers from skirt deformation above 3 grains of Bullseye. In S&Ws with 18-3/4" twist 50 yard grouping is improved at 2.8-3.0 grains. In Colts with 14" twist or custom PPC guns with faster twist barrels use 2.7 grains.

The Remington or Winchester factory HBWCs will give match accuracy 2-inch 50-yard groups up to 3.2 grains of Bullseye and can stand full charges up to 3.5 grains of Bullseye with better accuracy than +P service loads if fired in .38 Special chambers.

Solid cast DEWCs give best accuracy in slow S&W twist with 3.5 grains of Bullseye, full charge not to be exceeded. in Colts or fast-twist PPC guns load 3 grains.

[Walks]

2.7 grains of Bullseye under an H&G 50. Good enough for my Daddy, good enough for me.

Same for Me. I've shot thousands of Hornady & Zero swaged WC's thru My M14. And many more #358495. Used 2.8grs of Bullseye.

Dad cast many #358395HP's for Bullseye shooting, used 2.8grs Bullseye.
If it works why change it.

[Larry Gibson]

The classic load of 2.7/2.8 gr Bullseye under a soft swaged HBWC in 38 SPL cases for use in 38 SPL chambers is a classic for a reason....accuracy. Just yesterday I pressure tested some Remington swaged (.360 diameter) HBWCs over 2.7 gr of Bullseye in my Contender test barrel and also accuracy/velocity tested that load in my old service revolver, a M15 with 5" barrel. W-W cases with CCI 500 primers were used. Target was at 50 yards and a Ransom Rest was used.

The pressure for a 10 shot test out of the Contender barrel ran 13,300 psi with with an ES/SD of 2,000/600 psi. The velocity ran 806 fps with an ES/SD of 29/10 fps. The 10 shot group was just under 2".

In the S&W M15 a 14 shot test gave 730 fps with an ES/SD of 44/11 fps. The 14 shot group went into 3.25".

The Contender has a 16" twist so the bullet holes were nice and round. The S&W M15 has an 18 3/4" twist and the group, especially those on the out edge of the group, showed some key holing. That was always the case with the HBWC loads in S&W barrels. Most PPC revolvers, back in the day, had 16" twist custom heavy barrels for that reason. Some also had Colt Python 6" barrels which had 16" twists put on S&W revolvers. We called those Smythons......

Back in the day I shot a lot of those Remington and Speer 148 gr HBWCs in my PPC revolver built on a S&W M10. However, with solid base WCs and DE WCs most used 3 gr of Bullseye. Those were the loads most everyone used.

[Good Cheer]

2.7 is a great rabbit load.
As Elmer Keith liked to say about his elk load, "You can eat the bullet hole."

[racepres]

2.7 is a great rabbit load.
As Elmer Keith liked to say about his elk load, "You can eat the bullet hole."

Actually it was.."eat right up to the bullet hole" As I Recall anyway!!!
But... Picking Nits there!!!
Bad deal, as I know Not what a "nit" is!!!!!

[garbler]

Thirty-five years shooting Bullseye including the 2700 matches so lots of mid- range wadcutters. So free advice and see if it fits. First of all you don’t tell us what gun (s) your shooting as it make a big different if you are shooting for score. I believe I quit shooting Bullseye back in the early 80’s for several reasons. (1) it’s a dirty powder that can cause cycling problems with softball load springs in the 1911 style guns and (2) if your shooting a revolver it fouls the cylinder face and forcing cone but worst of all if you’re not carefull a bit of residue will get under the extractor star and lock up the gun. When I had my gunsmith shop this was common and simple enough to correct that I quit charging.

I changed to my reliable load of 5.0-5.1 grains of AA #2 after seeing a number of shooters at Camp Perry using it. Still a nice softball load with a powder that meters easily and burns clean. The 5.0 grains provides offers twice the powder column in the case so location to the primer flash is not as critical. With BE, I like others, always tipped the muzzle up before start to keep the powder down. Is this a proven procedure ? I don’t really know but it makes sense cause I do no that powder columns in rifle cartridges affect burn, extreme spread and accuracy.

With the 1911 guns that are setup for wadcutters at Bullseye velocity’s of 725 to about 800 fps springs are everything. With BE I always found the powder consistently accurate but the residue it left behind started to drag on the slide and barrel bushing slowing cycling time just a bit. Adding oil only created sludge. Whether this in fact was the case I can’t prove but I personally don’t shoot a Bullseye midrange wadcutter gun very well with a slow cycling thunky kind of action. I want my slide returning to battery faster than I can perceive so I can manage my sight picture. My Clark Midrange Colt was that way and I had to stiffen up the springs and tune the load to work for me especially in Rapid Fire events. So as others have said you need to test your loads with your gun and if you have access to a Ransom Rest it sure helps

Good Luck
Rick

[fecmech]

I owned a Ransom Rest at one time and did a lot of testing with the H&G #50 and the Lyman 358495 in my model 14 K38. My best 50yd accuracy was with 3.1/BE.

[Rodfac]

Outpost 75's excellent advice: "Solid cast DEWCs give best accuracy in slow S&W twist with 3.5 grains of Bullseye, full charge not to be exceeded."

This is my standard target/carry load on our farm for targets and small varmint elimination. While I get minutely better grouping in a pair of M-19 Smiths, a duo of Ruger BH's, a M-27 & M-686 Smith with 3.0-3.1 gr of Bullseye, it takes a solid sandbag rest at 50 yds to note the difference.

Truth be told, I prefer the 3.5 gr load (for its additional smack & I'm not into Bullseye Timed and Rapid Fire anymore). With my usual Lyman 358091 BBWC seated in the crimping groove, I use the same sizing for all of the above guns (0.358"), in ACWW alloy; which has worked out best over the years. Best regards, Rod

[Larry Gibson]

Just for S&Gs here's the Oehler M43 data sheet of the 2.7 gr Bullseye load/148 Rem HBWC w/group out of the Contender at 50 yards.

313959