Moving up to 425 grain from 405 grain 45-70 for deer to elk

[huntinlever]

See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?456196-Bullet-weight-variations-good-data-lower-accuracy-v-bad-data-very-good-groups&p=5573949&viewfull=1#post5573949. Different question, so new thread.

OK, I am a terrible overthinker, I know. Per that thread, basically not happy with the the current load and boolit combo, a 405 from Tom at Accurate, 46-405VG, trying both AA5744 and I 4198. Let me emphasize - NOTHING to do with Tom, Accurate, or the quality of this or any other mold I've bought from Tom. All are absolutely top-shelf.

I will say it's ironic that whether this 405 bullet, or the former 425 grain bullet, both are best at 39.7 grain IMR 4198.

Just thinking again. The former boolit I've used since beginning casting until I stopped due to medical issues, was the 425 gr 46-425Q, over 39.7 gr IMR 4198. Stiff load but both chrony and groups were very good, much better than I seem to be having now with the 405 and either 5744 or IMR 4198.

So, I'm a one-load guy. Find what works and stick with it. Problem is "what works" is something I can overthink. Nevertheless, thinking of starting over with a new mold from Tom, though old to me - the original 46-425 Q and the 39.7 gr 4198.

Anything in North America. Anticipated use from whitetail & elk, maybe a hog now and then. Odd request, but this time convince me out of moving off the 405 grain bullet and this load development. Or, if 425 grain heavy hitting pounder floats or would float your boat, feel free to give a boost to the idea.

Should mention I also have .338 WM. One's my thick timber hunter, one's my big mountain vistas hunter.

[stubshaft]

For years I shot the RCBS 405 gr. boolit and like yourself I generally find what works best and stick to it. Along the way I managed to get two 425 gr. Ranch Dog molds and started working up loads for the new boolit. It gave me slightly better results, now I'm talking about no more than a quarter of an inch (3/4" vs 1.0" @ 100 yds). My personal criteria is to shoot whatever shoots best! I do not care if I can get a couple of hundred fps out of a boolit, cause ya gotta hit what you aim at!

Tha being said, I'm pretty sure YOU know which way you are going to go. I will say that the difference in killing power between the 405 and 425 is negligible and I have yet to see ANY real difference between them.

[huntinlever]

For years I shot the RCBS 405 gr. boolit and like yourself I generally find what works best and stick to it. Along the way I managed to get two 425 gr. Ranch Dog molds and started working up loads for the new boolit. It gave me slightly better results, now I'm talking about no more than a quarter of an inch (3/4" vs 1.0" @ 100 yds). My personal criteria is to shoot whatever shoots best! I do not care if I can get a couple of hundred fps out of a boolit, cause ya gotta hit what you aim at!

Tha being said, I'm pretty sure YOU know which way you are going to go. I will say that the difference in killing power between the 405 and 425 is negligible and I have yet to see ANY real difference between them.

Thanks. 3/4 v. 1" is something I can only dream about! That 425 drove to touching at 50 and I never did much at 100 at the time, but this 2 moa - with flyers, make that like 4 moa - is driving me nuts. Maybe I just like the punishment of the 425 driven to 1700 fps (I'm actually somewhat serious. No idea why, but for some reason I seem to shoot better with a stiff load. Maybe I put more into proper fundamentals).

[BLAHUT]

I shoot a Lee .515 Gr FP out of my 45/70 guide gun, over 27 grs of 5744, stiff round, shoots very accurate,

[huntinlever]

Thanks guys. Just ordered my old mold from Tom - 46-425Q. One thing I noticed is that the 425 sits much deeper, with less exposed (sorry, don't know the technical terms for boolit dimensions). This, even though the 425 is the larger bullet. Wondering if this has something to do with a possibly better result?

https://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405VG

313832

https://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-425Q

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[405grain]

The RCBS 45-405-FN was the very first mold I ever owned. I shot it out of a replica 1874 Sharps. Killed my first deer, and my first pig with it. It was accurate enough that I used it in target competitions. Using that bullet, cast a little soft at 420 grains, and loaded over 37.0 grains of reloader #7, I would feel confident in it's hunting capabilities. Using a 45-70 as a hunting arm does require some good stalking skills. Because of the rainbow trajectory, I'd try to sneak up to within 100 yards of the quarry whenever possible, and wouldn't take shots over 150 yards. It puts the meat on the table, and never required more than one shot.

[huntinlever]

The RCBS 45-405-FN was the very first mold I ever owned. I shot it out of a replica 1874 Sharps. Killed my first deer, and my first pig with it. It was accurate enough that I used it in target competitions. Using that bullet, cast a little soft at 420 grains, and loaded over 37.0 grains of reloader #7, I would feel confident in it's hunting capabilities. Using a 45-70 as a hunting arm does require some good stalking skills. Because of the rainbow trajectory, I'd try to sneak up to within 100 yards of the quarry whenever possible, and wouldn't take shots over 150 yards. It puts the meat on the table, and never required more than one shot.

Thanks for the post. With a username 405 grain, I'm guessing you never felt the need to change up! Never hunted with a 45-70 until 2015, when I got this guide gun. Grew up with levers so this really appealed to me when a good deal came up. I hunt whitetail up north, in bigger woods, with nothing but timber and brush shots. Last deer was 25-30 yards, at most. I love this gun and I love stalking.

I might have moved off the 405 too soon, or I'm just being superstitious, but to be honest, I loved everything about that 425/39.7 4198 load. Even found the recoil more pleasant for some reason as it got hotter, until starting to pass 40.0+, if I recall correctly. That solid "thud-wallop" v. the sharp "sting". Can't explain why.

[Bigslug]

405 vs. 425 grains for elk?

You do realize that the reason we don't have to shoo BISON out of our petunia patch is because 405 grain bullets at sedate velocities, fired at some impressive yardages, accounted for a vast number - maybe even a majority - of them?

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That's a hard alloy 230 grain .45 ACP bullet that when launched at a standard, pokey hardball speed of 830 fps required nine gallon milk jugs filled with water - about six feet - to stop. While a 1911 isn't my first choice for discussions of gear at the RMEF banquet, if I was patient enough to close the distance, I'd be comfortable shooting an elk in the boiler room with that.
405 vs 425 grains would be kind of like comparing the results of running over one coyote with an F150, to that of running over another coyote with an F150 with a case of beer in the bed.

These articles got thought out a LONG time before you began thinking on them.

[huntinlever]

405 vs. 425 grains for elk?

You do realize that the reason we don't have to shoo BISON out of our petunia patch is because 405 grain bullets at sedate velocities, fired at some impressive yardages, accounted for a vast number - maybe even a majority - of them?

313837

That's a hard alloy 230 grain .45 ACP bullet that when launched at a standard, pokey hardball speed of 830 fps required nine gallon milk jugs filled with water - about six feet - to stop. While a 1911 isn't my first choice for discussions of gear at the RMEF banquet, if I was patient enough to close the distance, I'd be comfortable shooting an elk in the boiler room with that.
405 vs 425 grains would be kind of like comparing the results of running over one coyote with an F150, to that of running over another coyote with an F150 with a case of beer in the bed.

These articles got thought out a LONG time before you began thinking on them.

It's not really about killing power, I know either one will do the job so long as I do. It's about getting the best performance out of my gun, and what I tend to enjoy shooting (I like heavier, slower bullets as a matter of course). I haven't entirely decided to move on from the 405, but did order the 425 from Tom.

I am getting rid of the Magnetospeed, and ordered the unit I always used, the Comp Electronics pro. Mostly, for the purposes of dialing in the .338 WM and 30-06 for longer distances.

In terms of groupings with the 405, interestingly, node around 36.0 grains 4198 is a consistent performer, doesn't get better until approaching 39.5 grains.