.348 brass to 45-75 win

[Kai]

I've been converting .348 win brass to 45-75 win brass for a lot of years. Needing a few more cases I broke out the gear and went to work. Because I have the dies my process is cut off most of the neck of the 348 case with a dremel and debur. Run through 38-55 expander. Run through 40-65 expander. Run through 45-70 expander. Trim, lube, size, fire form. Casse loss occurs with the 45-70 expander. I have on my bench, which I did not have the last time I went through the process, is a lee universal case mouth expander (middle die in pic). Using this before the 45-70 expander resulted in 0 case loss.

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[Jeff Michel]

Good information, thanks for sharing.

[Duckiller]

Why do people destroy perfectly good 348 Win brass? It is hard enough to find 348 Win brass without someone chopping it up to make something else. Make something out of .223 , 308, 30/06 brass that is very common.

[barnetmill]

Why do people destroy perfectly good 348 Win brass? It is hard enough to find 348 Win brass without someone chopping it up to make something else. Make something out of .223 , 308, 30/06 brass that is very common.

Will 24 or 32 gauge brass shot gun shells work to make that case?
Ballistic advantage:
32 ga Magtech Brass Shotshell hulls are ideal for traditional black powder loads. Mix 10 boxes of any guage to receive case pricing.

Graf and sons
24 ga Uses Large Pistol Primers. New, unprimed shotshell brass cases. Accepts large pistol primers. This is not loaded ammunition.

[Jeff Michel]

You use .348 because you can't make 45-75 out of 30-06 and going further, Starline does make .348 brass abet sporadically.

[Kai]

Why do people destroy perfectly good 348 Win brass? It is hard enough to find 348 Win brass without someone chopping it up to make something else. Make something out of .223 , 308, 30/06 brass that is very common.

I shoot a wincherster 71 and have more 348 brass than I'll ever use that I bought when things didn't cost so much. It's 348 or 50-90 brass to make 45-75 and I don't have 50-90.

[Kai]

Will 24 or 32 gauge brass shot gun shells work to make that case?
Ballistic advantage:
32 ga Magtech Brass Shotshell hulls are ideal for traditional black powder loads. Mix 10 boxes of any guage to receive case pricing.

Graf and sons
24 ga Uses Large Pistol Primers. New, unprimed shotshell brass cases. Accepts large pistol primers. This is not loaded ammunition.

Nope, at least not without more finagling. Even if it did I don't have any of either.

[challenger_i]

Why do people destroy perfectly good 348 Win brass? It is hard enough to find 348 Win brass without someone chopping it up to make something else. Make something out of .223 , 308, 30/06 brass that is very common.

Because it is the case to work with. I have the same issue: using the 5.6x50R to make 6.5 TCU(r) for my Martini. Is the ONLY game in town, and is harder to source than 348 Winchester.

[barnetmill]

Nope, at least not without more finagling. Even if it did I don't have any of either.

I mention because they are for sale at this moment. but if you are well supplied there is no reason to do it harder way.

[square butte]

Why do people destroy perfectly good 348 Win brass? It is hard enough to find 348 Win brass without someone chopping it up to make something else. Make something out of .223 , 308, 30/06 brass that is very common.

Because 45-75 brass is so much more scarce than 348 Win Brass

[trails4u]

I don't find that 348 Win is difficult at all to source..... If you're actively looking for it, as I do, you'll find it at around $1.00 to $1.50 per new case, pretty much all day long every day. It isn't cheap.....but honestly seems somewhat plentiful these days.

[Kai]

I mention because they are for sale at this moment. but if you are well supplied there is no reason to do it harder way.

Thanks

[Mk42gunner]

Why do people destroy perfectly good 348 Win brass? It is hard enough to find 348 Win brass without someone chopping it up to make something else. Make something out of .223 , 308, 30/06 brass that is very common.

Because there has only been one production rifle ever chambered for it, the Model 71 Winchester (two if you count Browning's reproduction of the Model 71).

I'll venture to say that more .348 Winchester brass is being utilized as a parent case than is actually being fired in a for real .348 Winchester chamber. It does serve wonderfully as a parent case for many BP and a few smokeless rounds.

Robert

[trails4u]

Because there has only been one production rifle ever chambered for it, the Model 71 Winchester (two if you count Browning's reproduction of the Model 71).

I'll venture to say that more .348 Winchester brass is being utilized as a parent case than is actually being fired in a for real .348 Winchester chamber. It does serve wonderfully as a parent case for many BP and a few smokeless rounds.

Robert

I actually wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is why production has continued into today. I certainly shoot more 348 Win cases in BP single shots than I do in my Model 71!

And Kai....very nice conversion and well described/illustrated! It's one I've not done yet......but has peaked my interest!

[kootne]

I made some about 30 years ago, similar process. I annealed the case neck/shoulder area at some point in the expanding process. I took it one step further and faced off the headstamp, recut the depth on the primer pocket and made some holders to use with Pryor steel type to make caliber correct head stamp. Photo shows a Jamison case on the left, my homemade on the right.

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[elk hunter]

Sure makes me wish Jamison was still in business.

[Kai]

I made some about 30 years ago, similar process. I annealed the case neck/shoulder area at some point in the expanding process. I took it one step further and faced off the headstamp, recut the depth on the primer pocket and made some holders to use with Pryor steel type to make caliber correct head stamp. Photo shows a Jamison case on the left, my homemade on the right.

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Now that's down right fancy!! Nicely done.

[Kai]

Look what just came in the mail. Speaking of availability of 348 brass, I had posted reforming 348 brass on a facebook site and received a message from a member that he had some 348 brass if I was interested. 120 cases at .75 apiece. Right place at the right time I spose.

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[Kai]

Sure makes me wish Jamison was still in business.

You need 45-75 brass? If so pm me.

[Rockindaddy]

Kai: Nice description on making 45-75 Win out of 348. I use 348 Win brass to make 11mm Vickers, 11mm Grau, and 50-90 Win for my 1876 Winchester. I have plenty of 348 Win brass because I have shot my 71 Winchesters alot when ammo was plentiful. If I anneal the necks the sizing up goes easier. My mistake 348's go for making 11mm Swiss Vetterli that is a short case. Kai; you might buy an 11mm Swiss Vetterli to use up your split 348 Win cases.

[Rockindaddy]

Wonder if we ordered enough 348 Win brass from Starline and asked them to not squeeze the neck down to .35 cal ????? If 5000 or 10,000 cases were ordered maybe there would be enough reloaders to buy up the order run??

[indian joe]

I've been converting .348 win brass to 45-75 win brass for a lot of years. Needing a few more cases I broke out the gear and went to work. Because I have the dies my process is cut off most of the neck of the 348 case with a dremel and debur. Run through 38-55 expander. Run through 40-65 expander. Run through 45-70 expander. Trim, lube, size, fire form. Casse loss occurs with the 45-70 expander. I have on my bench, which I did not have the last time I went through the process, is a lee universal case mouth expander (middle die in pic). Using this before the 45-70 expander resulted in 0 case loss.

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my process similar - couple extra steps -- I annealed twice and I expanded in smaller steps -
.357 , then .375, then .401, (stock expanders) then made one about .415 then 427 , finally the .457 plug - lost one case from 200 and that as just careless.

[indian joe]

Wonder if we ordered enough 348 Win brass from Starline and asked them to not squeeze the neck down to .35 cal ????? If 5000 or 10,000 cases were ordered maybe there would be enough reloaders to buy up the order run??

Starline ran 50 alaskan a year or two back still an odd bag of that around

[indian joe]

Why do people destroy perfectly good 348 Win brass? It is hard enough to find 348 Win brass without someone chopping it up to make something else. Make something out of .223 , 308, 30/06 brass that is very common.

Because it is perfectly good brass for the purpose - If you have a 45/75 you got limited choices - 348w, 50 alaskan, 50/90 sharps -----------------or Brazilian shotshell cases 32 gauge I think?

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Curious, do you anneal when forming the 45-75? 348 brass not hard to find, I got a bunch of W-W from the 80's for my long tang Win 71 and Browning 71 Carbine, and Starline is out there, but have a Savage 99 358 that is better.

[Kai]

Kai: Nice description on making 45-75 Win out of 348. I use 348 Win brass to make 11mm Vickers, 11mm Grau, and 50-90 Win for my 1876 Winchester. I have plenty of 348 Win brass because I have shot my 71 Winchesters alot when ammo was plentiful. If I anneal the necks the sizing up goes easier. My mistake 348's go for making 11mm Swiss Vetterli that is a short case. Kai; you might buy an 11mm Swiss Vetterli to use up your split 348 Win cases.

Rockinndaddy,
Thanks for the tip but another cartridge is something I do not need. Lol. Besides the overall process, a point of my post is the use of the universal case mouth expander/flare. The use of this die before the .457 expander results in 0 split cases even without annealing. I would however, be happy to send you any 45-75 cases that split after reloading x number of times for use in your 11mm Veterelli if you can use them.

[Rockindaddy]

Kai: You are a guy after my heart! Thought I was a knuckle head as I am always shooting the old single shot cartridges. My buddies always look to see what I am shooting. They ask me why don't you just get a gun you can buy ammo for??? I was just poking fun when I suggested you buy a Swiss Vetterli to have a use for your mistake 348's But I actually do use my "opps" 348 cases to make the short Swiss 11mm rounds. Indian Joe has a good idea to use the 50 Alaskan brass to make up the cartridges that utilize the 348 Win base. Oh by the way; the 11mm Swiss Vetterli's shoot like they have eyes!!!!

[Rockindaddy]

I see the point of your post utilizing a case mouth expander Kai. I made up my own loading dies as none are available for the 11mm Swiss. My home made expander dies gradually open up or sneak up on the larger diameter. I expand the 35 cal case mouth to 38 caliber and anneal the neck. Then open it to 40 caliber. Next expander opens the mouth to 11mm or 44 caliber. 11mm Vickers rounds are no where to be found! You made up a very good post on this topic.

[Kai]

Kai: You are a guy after my heart! Thought I was a knuckle head as I am always shooting the old single shot cartridges. My buddies always look to see what I am shooting. They ask me why don't you just get a gun you can buy ammo for??? I was just poking fun when I suggested you buy a Swiss Vetterli to have a use for your mistake 348's But I actually do use my "opps" 348 cases to make the short Swiss 11mm rounds. Indian Joe has a good idea to use the 50 Alaskan brass to make up the cartridges that utilize the 348 Win base. Oh by the way; the 11mm Swiss Vetterli's shoot like they have eyes!!!!

Get a gun you can BUY ammo for? What kind of fun is that??!! No idea when I bought ammo last.

[Gav-n-Tn]

Reviving this for a question or two. I’m getting tooled up to reform some 348 into 45-75. The shell holders for 348 and 45-75 are obviously different. Does the reformed 348 cycle and eject without issue? I have a NIB Chapparal that is the candidate. I only have one box of new Ten-X, thus the desire for reforming the 348. I have a little over 200 348 reloads (not mine) that’ll be torn down for this project. Actually, I don’t plan on tearing them all down, just enough to try my hand at it.

Also, has anyone loaded the Speer (2478) or Hornady (4503) 350gr FNSP in 45-75?

[Rick B]

348 WCF converted to 45-75 cycles and ejects with ease. Takes a couple of firings to fully form. The 1876's chambers I load for will not accept a case formed from 50-90 or CBC 32 gauge brass. Base diameter ahead of the rim is too big in diameter.
Below are some base diameters

348 Winchester .547
45-75 Jamison .558
50-90 Sharps Straight Starline .5597
50-110 Starline .5445
32 Gauge CBC .563-.566

Depending on the chamber, some of the other cases might work.
Rick

[Jeff Michel]

Anneal, let me repeat, ANNEAL! If your looking for proper form tools, CH4D has them in stock as of two days ago. You will have to expand the neck in steps and then a final full length resize. I shorten mine before I do anything else. As stated prior, it may take a time or two to fire form. Accurate has the mold you will want,
https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-342W
It's a good one, mimics the original Winchester bullet. The 348 case is the way to go, less fuss than the others to get to run properly. Good luck and enjoy your Chappy. In case I forgot, don't forget to anneal your brass.

[Kai]

Anneal, let me repeat, ANNEAL! If your looking for proper form tools, CH4D has them in stock as of two days ago. You will have to expand the neck in steps and then a final full length resize. I shorten mine before I do anything else. As stated prior, it may take a time or two to fire form. Accurate has the mold you will want,
https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-342W
It's a good one, mimics the original Winchester bullet. The 348 case is the way to go, less fuss than the others to get to run properly. Good luck and enjoy your Chappy. In case I forgot, don't forget to anneal your brass.

First off "Chappy"?? What is a Chappy? As for a mold, I couldn't get my 76 to do better than about 3 feet with several different 350gr molds. Then I found a NEI 458-300 gc mold and the group went to an inch at 50yds. I'm convinced it's because of the gc but the lighter bullet plays a role as well.

[Gav-n-Tn]

Anneal, let me repeat, ANNEAL! If your looking for proper form tools, CH4D has them in stock as of two days ago. You will have to expand the neck in steps and then a final full length resize. I shorten mine before I do anything else. As stated prior, it may take a time or two to fire form. Accurate has the mold you will want,
https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-342W
It's a good one, mimics the original Winchester bullet. The 348 case is the way to go, less fuss than the others to get to run properly. Good luck and enjoy your Chappy. In case I forgot, don't forget to anneal your brass.
I’m going to use a series of expanders with the RCBS Legacy expander being the last. I do plan on annealing between various stages and taking my time. I’m going to keep the case mouths lubed as well. What about the two bullets I mentioned. Any experience with either of them?

[Gav-n-Tn]

Good to know. Thanks!

[Kai]

Reviving this for a question or two. I’m getting tooled up to reform some 348 into 45-75. The shell holders for 348 and 45-75 are obviously different. Does the reformed 348 cycle and eject without issue? I have a NIB Chapparal that is the candidate. I only have one box of new Ten-X, thus the desire for reforming the 348. I have a little over 200 348 reloads (not mine) that’ll be torn down for this project. Actually, I don’t plan on tearing them all down, just enough to try my hand at it.

Also, has anyone loaded the Speer (2478) or Hornady (4503) 350gr FNSP in 45-75?

Yes, the reformed 348 cases cycle and eject without issue. At least they do in a Winchester, not sure about a Chapparal but I don't see why they would not. The key to not ruining cases is to trim them enough to begin with. The shorter the neck is the less likely it will split when expanding.

[Kai]

Reviving this for a question or two. I’m getting tooled up to reform some 348 into 45-75. The shell holders for 348 and 45-75 are obviously different. Does the reformed 348 cycle and eject without issue? I have a NIB Chapparal that is the candidate. I only have one box of new Ten-X, thus the desire for reforming the 348. I have a little over 200 348 reloads (not mine) that’ll be torn down for this project. Actually, I don’t plan on tearing them all down, just enough to try my hand at it.

Also, has anyone loaded the Speer (2478) or Hornady (4503) 350gr FNSP in 45-75?

I have not used either of the 2 bullets you mentioned. I have tried several different molds and have found the NEI 458-300gc mold.

[Gav-n-Tn]

Yes, the reformed 348 cases cycle and eject without issue. At least they do in a Winchester, not sure about a Chapparal but I don't see why they would not. The key to not ruining cases is to trim them enough to begin with. The shorter the neck is the less likely it will split when expanding.
I will re-read to make sure I remember that trim length. I think 1.90 stands out. I’m sure the cases grow when fire formed? I wish I had a file trim die but the only one I’ve found is just a little steep for me.

[Rockindaddy]

Wow! Nice note on making 45-75 Win out of 348 Win. I have had several Model 71's over the years and have a pile of 348 Winchester brass. Never bought a 45-75 Winchester Model 1876 because of the brass scarcity. I do make 11 Vickers out of 348 Win to shoot in my belt feed 1918 Colt Vickers aircraft gun. Its a hoot to shoot! A 150 rounds and the old gal gets pretty hot!! Any damaged 348's I turn into 41 Swiss. The 1882 Swiss Vetterli is a fun rifle to shoot. I copied your procedure down in my reloading book so when that 45-75 76' Winchester falls into my lap, I will be able to whip up some brass. Thanks for you sharing!!!!

[Jeff Michel]

[QUOTE=Kai;5674920]First off "Chappy"?? What is a Chappy?
It's a Chapparal, no longer manufactured, it's a common use vernacular with shooters of 1876 clones.

[Gav-n-Tn]

[QUOTE=Kai;5674920]First off "Chappy"?? What is a Chappy?
It's a Chapparal, no longer manufactured, it's a common use vernacular with shooters of 1876 clones. In my case, mine actually is a Chapparal. I’ve had it for over a decade or more. New, unfired, in the box. My understanding is that the Chapparal chamber dimensions were based on the original Winchester 1876 Centennial’s. I was gearing up to load for some of my other hard to find ammo for calibers and decided to give the 45-75 a go. I don’t intend for it to be a target rifle, I want to hunt with it.

[Kai]

[QUOTE=Kai;5674920]First off "Chappy"?? What is a Chappy?
It's a Chapparal, no longer manufactured, it's a common use vernacular with shooters of 1876 clones.

I don't have one of those. Never heard of it. Mine's a winchester 1876 circa 1877.

[Gav-n-Tn]

How far down the 348 case is everyone annealing? Seems like you’d want to get down as far as where the taper starts to form for the 45-75?

[Gav-n-Tn]

How far down the 348 case is everyone annealing? Seems like you’d want to get down as far as where the taper starts to form for the 45-75?
Anyone have an answer or opinion?

[Jeff Michel]

Since I'm cutting the case practically at the top of the shoulder, I generally anneal to the bottom of the shoulder, the temperature will migrate so you will have to keep a close eye on your brass, you don't want to over heat it. I would suggest that you shorten first, a bit long, then anneal, then go through your expansion steps. Don't be stingy on lube either, I use Imperial sizing die wax, STP is good as well, use a cotton swab cover inside and outside. I don't know what you have at your disposal as to tooling, but take your time during the expansion process, have on hand a variety of different size expanders, I go from .357 to .400 to .458 ( these all have a pretty steep taper so as to minimize the stress of expanding) and still lose one from time to time. Do not go from .348 to .458 in one pass, everyone on the forum will hear your shriek when you shove the neck into the case body. Kidding aside, take your time and you shouldn't have to many problems. After the case is expanded, full length resize, trim the case, then it's off to fire form. Nothing special here, your new case is incredibly tough. I use regular hunting loads when I fire form and some times it takes a couple times before they are fully formed.

[Gav-n-Tn]

Since I'm cutting the case practically at the top of the shoulder, I generally anneal to the bottom of the shoulder, the temperature will migrate so you will have to keep a close eye on your brass, you don't want to over heat it. I would suggest that you shorten first, a bit long, then anneal, then go through your expansion steps. Don't be stingy on lube either, I use Imperial sizing die wax, STP is good as well, use a cotton swab cover inside and outside. I don't know what you have at your disposal as to tooling, but take your time during the expansion process, have on hand a variety of different size expanders, I go from .357 to .400 to .458 ( these all have a pretty steep taper so as to minimize the stress of expanding) and still lose one from time to time. Do not go from .348 to .458 in one pass, everyone on the forum will hear your shriek when you shove the neck into the case body. Kidding aside, take your time and you shouldn't have to many problems. After the case is expanded, full length resize, trim the case, then it's off to fire form. Nothing special here, your new case is incredibly tough. I use regular hunting loads when I fire form and some times it takes a couple times before they are fully formed. I am set up in the following order: expander mandrels .3365, .4095, .4465 then .457 expander ball and finally RCBS FL “Legacy” die. I plan on annealing during expansion increments. I bought some “cheaper” jacketed .458 for fire forming. Cheaper being a relative term of course. Haven’t figured out a fire forming or starting load yet. I’ll be using smokeless powder (VV N133).